If we can't use the Foundary to its fullest potential just like that, then why the heck we spent a large amount of time securing it?

Also, I am still at a loss on what's exactly needed to take down Palpy at a reasonable rate (=> 50%). Do we really need a Death Star or two in order to do it? I meant, we have done a lot ever since the last turn and we still haven't secured a 10% increase in our success chance. And we are running out of time before Palpy decided to shoot us first before we are completely ready...

@Dr. Snark Question: just how big of a threat Palpy see us right now, and what is his threshold before he resorts to drastic action (i.e. forming the Galactic Empire and sending the Galaxy to hell)?
 
Also, I am still at a loss on what's exactly needed to take down Palpy at a reasonable rate (=> 50%). Do we really need a Death Star or two in order to do it? I meant, we have done a lot ever since the last turn and we still haven't secured a 10% increase in our success chance. And we are running out of time before Palpy decided to shoot us first before we are completely ready...
I imagine our chances would jump significantly if Anakin sides with us (or against Palpatine, at least) after his pilgrimage.
 
If we can't use the Foundary to its fullest potential just like that, then why the heck we spent a large amount of time securing it?

Also, I am still at a loss on what's exactly needed to take down Palpy at a reasonable rate (=> 50%). Do we really need a Death Star or two in order to do it? I meant, we have done a lot ever since the last turn and we still haven't secured a 10% increase in our success chance. And we are running out of time before Palpy decided to shoot us first before we are completely ready...

@Dr. Snark Question: just how big of a threat Palpy see us right now, and what is his threshold before he resorts to drastic action (i.e. forming the Galactic Empire and sending the Galaxy to hell)?
Well we went from 5% last turn to 14% this turn (higher if break the glass on the foundry). Also a lot of our actions have been setting us up for the ones that would improve rate (example Cheriss hero action at the foundry will work a lot better and should bump our success up). Another is the force bond we have with Asajj if we can leverage that right with both Cirian and Asajj training different abilities they can improve quite a bit and those two gaining more Lore and Martial would do a lot to drive the percent up. Also if we can bring Anakin on as an asset that should also jump the chances up quite a bit.

Palpatine has posed multiple issues, one he has a lot of support that needs to be neutralized and we have begun to do that (including the CIS which he does not know and will be huge), the other side is taking out a Sith Lord where a lot of our assets are not viable (really Ciaran and Asajj are the only two we have that should engage him directly). Our other assets are to deal with his support like guards and his various dark side users preventing them from distracting our heavy hitters.

As it is securing Anakin for the final fight is going to be a big improvement, more so if we can also find a good way to bring both Yoda and Mace in as well as that is a lot of very talented force users coming at Sidious. Also more efforts to dechip the clones as the larger the percentage cleared the greater our success chance.
 
I can't really blame Snark for effectively nerfing the Foundry. It's basically an 'I win' button even if it isn't used for its intended purpose.
 
...the other side is taking out a Sith Lord where a lot of our assets are not viable (really Ciaran and Asajj are the only two we have that should engage him directly). Our other assets are to deal with his support like guards and his various dark side users preventing them from distracting our heavy hitters.

Is Palpatine really that dangerous in a fight? I meant, Darth Vader just chucked him down the reactor chute and that's the end of him, so how hard will it be to chuck him down something similar?
 
....have you watched Episode 3? Or him beating Maul and Savage down?


Anyway, if we can get Dooku (fully) on side (which almost automatically requires getting Vos on side as well) that would also jump things up quite a bit.
 
Hm, actually I think this is one of the biggest advantages of the Foundary.

Star Wars has droid factories. It has industrial droids. But most of those require alot more skilled manpower to run. So our factories on Cato Nemoidia have been under-utilized since we can't do much with them without being noticed.

But the Foundry? It is a self-contained industrial unit, it needs virtually no overseeing and Star Wars has alot of unremarkable systems no-one cares about with plenty of asteroids. We could tow it out to an empty star system with a tanker full of concrete and build an entire industrial base with virtually no traffic with the rest of the galaxy.

fasquardon
Oh, I've got no problem with making a secret industrial powerhouse. I even suggested similar with building up a few armies and then tasking drone forces to resource stock-piling and using the Foundry itself to supply the Abyss Watchers more...private...equipment.

It's selling a ton of stuff I find stupid. We can build most of what we need to expand unnoticed now as is, and we already make a literal ton from everything else. To be honest, given the importance of keeping the true assets and capabilities of the Watchers secret, we were always going to have to either build stuff ourself, with limited funds from black markets (we could sell to them too, but they definitely can't match the scale of producing for the galaxy at large), or keep it limited to un-suspicious quantities/transactions.
 
Is Palpatine really that dangerous in a fight? I meant, Darth Vader just chucked him down the reactor chute and that's the end of him, so how hard will it be to chuck him down something similar?
If Palpatine knows there's going to be a fight then he's a fucking beast. See the novel version of his RotS fight against Mace's team, where half of them are dead before the fastest of them even starts to move, or his utterly one-sided beatdown of Maul and Savage. For Legends, see basically any of his combat appearances. He's not that powerful yet, but he's still packing an obscene amount of power and technique.

Vader got the drop on Palpatine because Palpatine literally couldn't conceive of him ever following through on his thoughts of betrayal.
 
Is Palpatine really that dangerous in a fight? I meant, Darth Vader just chucked him down the reactor chute and that's the end of him, so how hard will it be to chuck him down something similar?
In Episode 3 he cut down 3 jedi masters in an instant so there is that and held his own vs Windu and forced Yoda to retreat so yeah he is dangerous.
 
It's selling a ton of stuff I find stupid.

Ahhhh. OK. Yes. Totally agree with you here.

I can't really blame Snark for effectively nerfing the Foundry. It's basically an 'I win' button even if it isn't used for its intended purpose.

So far as I can tell, it is only an "I win" button because he decided it was an "I win" button.

When the Foundry was introduced my reaction was "oh cool, an industrial multiplier equivalent to having all Cato Nemoidia all to ourselves, that's pretty neat". But then I learned that because of ancient Rakatan whoozits, it is more like a dozen death stars. Which I don't get, because for droid armies to be useful they need transport. (Until this update, we were being told that the Foundry couldn't manufacture star ships, only droids.) Now we're being told that the Foundry CAN manufacture star ships (the mining drones with hyperdrives) AND that the Foundry is so awesomely powerful that not only does it knock about 100 points off Thrawn's IQ, but it's also so powerful that we can't use it except in direst emergency.

Now, I've not played the MMORPG the Foundry comes from, so I don't know what sort of silly "lore" the Foundry comes bundled with, but what it looks like to me is that Dr. Snark has been the one making the Foundry overpowered and has now turned around and said "but you can't use it, and by the way, all the ways Thrawn can think of to use this thing are kinda stupid".

So now I am confused and wondering why he spent so much time building up the Foundry as an OP thing in the first place. Just keeping as it was before so it couldn't manufacture starships would stop it from being a tool of intergalactic domination.

fasquardon
 
Yeah, Don use the foundry to build droids, use the foundry to build the infrastructure to build droids. That way we can openly compete in droids manufacturing with much less suspicion cast upon us.
Random Republic Intelligence Officer:"Hmm...wonder where all this armor came from? Hmm...the CNS shouldn't have those designs should they? It's a Military Asset."

Thing is, major movements of pretty much anything will be watched. We've gotten away with Watcher assets because the Watchers overall are...kinda small in the face of a galaxy at war (hundreds-thousands of actual members I think? In a galaxy of trillions). That, and we've been careful to keep things to the shadows with smuggling, underworld contacts, etc. and outright disguises when in the light. Suddenly producing enough product to supply literally billions of people, even if its mundane stuff? That's not a little thing, not little at all. And when people can't figure out where it all came from...then its even worse.

As for the Von Neumann method...honestly kinda a waste of time. The Foundry can build super quick with just about anything. We? Can't. Trying to build droid factories would mean much more complicated logistics for slower, crappier results and still without a particular use for all of the armies being made.

If we can't use the Foundary to its fullest potential just like that, then why the heck we spent a large amount of time securing it?

Also, I am still at a loss on what's exactly needed to take down Palpy at a reasonable rate (=> 50%). Do we really need a Death Star or two in order to do it? I meant, we have done a lot ever since the last turn and we still haven't secured a 10% increase in our success chance. And we are running out of time before Palpy decided to shoot us first before we are completely ready...

@Dr. Snark Question: just how big of a threat Palpy see us right now, and what is his threshold before he resorts to drastic action (i.e. forming the Galactic Empire and sending the Galaxy to hell)?
The full potential of the Foundry is unlimited production of murder armies at a rate and quality that exceeds basically anything else in the galaxy. The CIS in its entirety probably exceeds the Foundry, at least at its best, but its also not nearly as effortless or high-quality. If we can keep the Foundry itself hidden, or protected with a sturdy enough fleet (which is its own problem, basically no one can contest the GAR or CIS Navies atm), then we will be capable of conquering the galaxy. But the problem, is that this is a very brute-force solution to a complicated and delicate problem. Even ignoring Palpatine, it would mean breaking the majority of galactic civilization, and then re-building it ourselves and keeping it from rebelling. And it'd be even bloodier a regime then the Galactic Empire considering how most of Ol'Palpy's effort was in managing the PR coup that made people want his iron fist, an effort an endless army of murder-bots simply cannot pull-off.

So yeah. It's gated.

As for Palpy, part of his difficulty is his personal threat. He's a very dangerous man after-all. Most of it though, is from what measures and protections he's taken that we don't know about, what allies, guards, apprentices, artifacts, etc. he can use if things go tits-up. Finally, assuming we blow past all of that and nail the man himself, 'success' means we don't just let a contingency measure activate and burn the galaxy to the ground. By crashing the economy, causing massive conflict and wars, plagues, or even hidden fleets of fanatics ready to come out and do it planet by planet with turbo-lasers if they have to. So 'success' means identifying and neutralizing all of those threats in addition offing an extremely powerful Sith Lord with unknown assets and capabilities, in the very center of their power. Yeah. Not easy.
 
So looking ahead to next turn for personal actions I want to try out the organic shatterpoint. That should help us in a fight vs Palpatine so would be an action to increase our chances. At the same time I would like to use Asajj on a hero action to contact one of the four groups in Journey of an Exile. Not sure which of the four would provide the biggest benefit but this would be helpful as it could give a force power we don't have yet letting us leverage that force bond.

HK-47 can also do the anti-force book to give us another boost, some of it should be useful for Ciaran and Asajj to use as well.
 
Random Republic Intelligence Officer:"Hmm...wonder where all this armor came from? Hmm...the CNS shouldn't have those designs should they? It's a Military Asset."

Thing is, major movements of pretty much anything will be watched. We've gotten away with Watcher assets because the Watchers overall are...kinda small in the face of a galaxy at war (hundreds-thousands of actual members I think? In a galaxy of trillions). That, and we've been careful to keep things to the shadows with smuggling, underworld contacts, etc. and outright disguises when in the light. Suddenly producing enough product to supply literally billions of people, even if its mundane stuff? That's not a little thing, not little at all. And when people can't figure out where it all came from...then its even worse.

As for the Von Neumann method...honestly kinda a waste of time. The Foundry can build super quick with just about anything. We? Can't. Trying to build droid factories would mean much more complicated logistics for slower, crappier results and still without a particular use for all of the armies being made.

Good point about selling things directly. Perhaps we could leverage effectively instant prototyping and then liscense designs?
 
So far as I can tell, it is only an "I win" button because he decided it was an "I win" button.

When the Foundry was introduced my reaction was "oh cool, an industrial multiplier equivalent to having all Cato Nemoidia all to ourselves, that's pretty neat". But then I learned that because of ancient Rakatan whoozits, it is more like a dozen death stars. Which I don't get, because for droid armies to be useful they need transport. (Until this update, we were being told that the Foundry couldn't manufacture star ships, only droids.) Now we're being told that the Foundry CAN manufacture star ships (the mining drones with hyperdrives) AND that the Foundry is so awesomely powerful that not only does it knock about 100 points off Thrawn's IQ, but it's also so powerful that we can't use it except in direst emergency.

Now, I've not played the MMORPG the Foundry comes from, so I don't know what sort of silly "lore" the Foundry comes bundled with, but what it looks like to me is that Dr. Snark has been the one making the Foundry overpowered and has now turned around and said "but you can't use it, and by the way, all the ways Thrawn can think of to use this thing are kinda stupid".

So now I am confused and wondering why he spent so much time building up the Foundry as an OP thing in the first place. Just keeping as it was before so it couldn't manufacture starships would stop it from being a tool of intergalactic domination.
Fas, the Foundry has always been overpowered. It was created by the galaxies greatest empire and the third most technologically advanced species. It is a super-weapon that has never actually been used to its full capacity.

Can it make transports? Yes. Small craft or drones or what-not with hyper-drive capability have always been a thing. Star-ships? No. Too big, too divorced from what the Foundry was specialized to produce. This does of course mean that the Foundry is rather vulnerable itself, and without accompanying fleets its armies can be devastated before even arriving at a planet. It was only 1 of 4 after all. But, with literal infinite hordes of unique quality made by a factory that can go anywhere and runs on anything? Attrition alone will eventually end the opponent. Just stock-piling small fighters and bombers until they can actually devastate fleets would work. It'd take a while, and it'd be horribly logistically inefficient, but if the foe can't fight back? All they can do is die.

This is also why it's so important to remain hidden though. Not knowing where it is to send a kill-fleet is the Foundries best defense, and showing our hand with open war is going to make things a lot more difficult, while outright removing the possibility in succeeding in some of our lesser objectives. For all its production capacity after-all, its still just one installation, and our foes would be practically monolithic in scope. Hence keeping it in reserve.

Keeping it as an industrial base will be useful, but we can't just spam units without giving the game away and losing our best edge, so its no game-changer on the subtle side of war.
 
I can't really blame Snark for effectively nerfing the Foundry. It's basically an 'I win' button even if it isn't used for its intended purpose.
Not really. Like nothing in this update is new, if we wanted to we could spread information about Palpatine to everyone then throw everything at killing him and fuck the collateral damage with pretty good odds of success for a long time now, we just decided otherwise so the Foundry making it more effective doesn't actually mean anything. It is not really a nerf if the reason to not do it is because we don't want to do it.

Like the response to "Foundry allows us a fair chance at conquering the galaxy by force of arms so to avoid that trap we should make sure activation is only a last resort voted by the group" should be "Okay we never wanted to conquer the galaxy by force of arms that is pretty much the entire point of what we have done since the very beginning, the important part is that the Foundry is secure from people who would and it has plenty of other uses".
 
While I'm floating around, let me comment on the general theme of the discussion the past couple of pages:

-"The Foundry is too OP, of course there's no way the QM would let us use it:" Frankly from what has been stated about it in canon, it is that overpowered. And due to the less than thorough information I have on it (one raid in TOR and never mentioned again, yaaaaay) I'm forced to scale it to it's closest counterpart: The Star Forge. A station that gave Malak and Revan an armada large enough to damn near conquer the Republic in only a few years and became a Priority One target the moment it was revealed it existed. Any station on par with that would have to have insane manufacturing capabilities, and be just as large of a target should it be discovered. There's a reason that in my version of events Vitate made sure to blast the Foundry to hell to make sure no one could use it against him.

As for not letting it be used as a weapon...honestly the main reason I'm not letting you do that is for narrative reasons more than anything else - if this weren't so story-heavy, I'd totally give you lot the power to press the big red button and see what would happen. But Ciaran wouldn't do that - it's just too out of character for her at this point to fire up the Foundry and damn the consequences.
 
Last edited:
While I'm floating around, let me comment on the general theme of the discussion the past couple of pages:

-"The Foundry is too OP, of course there's no way the QM would let us use it:" Frankly from what has been stated about it in canon, it is that overpowered. And quite frankly due to the less than thorough information I have on it (one raid in TOR and never mentioned again, yaaaaay) I'm forced to scale it to it's closest counterpart: The Star Forge. A station that gave Malak and Revan an armada large enough to damn near conquer the Republic in only a few years and became a Priority One target the moment it was revealed it existed. Any station on par with that would have to have insane manufacturing capabilities, and be just as large of a target should it be discovered. There's a reason that in my version of events Vitate made sure to blast the Foundry to hell to make sure no one could use it against him.

As for not letting it be used as a weapon...honestly the main reason I'm not letting you do that is for narrative reasons more than anything else - if this weren't so story-heavy, I'd totally give you lot the power to press the big red button and see what would happen. But Ciaran wouldn't do that - it's just too out of character for her at this point to fire up the Foundry and damn the consequences, and the people around her would try to at least tal.
But short of the big red button, we can still use it, correct? It is also in character for Ciaran to use every Advantage she can get her hands on.

So we should indeed be able to, say, get accompanying fleets for Invisible Hand and the Chuunthor.

Or do stuff like duplicate the Scimitar a bunch of times for our Walkers, get free Phrik armor for all of our hero units + walkers, etc.
 
But short of the big red button, we can still use it, correct? It is also in character for Ciaran to use every Advantage she can get her hands on.

So we should indeed be able to, say, get accompanying fleets for Invisible Hand and the Chuunthor.

Or do stuff like duplicate the Scimitar a bunch of times for our Walkers, get free Phrik armor for all of our hero units + walkers, etc.
We can but for more elite units and prototyping instead of mass production. It was mentioned by the GM that one of Cheriss hero actions is being enhanced now that we have the foundry available.
 
But short of the big red button, we can still use it, correct? It is also in character for Ciaran to use every Advantage she can get her hands on.

So we should indeed be able to, say, get accompanying fleets for Invisible Hand and the Chuunthor.

Or do stuff like duplicate the Scimitar a bunch of times for our Walkers, get free Phrik armor for all of our hero units + walkers, etc.

1. Er...no. I know I sound like a broken record, but the Foundry produces droids, not starships. It is not the Star Forge. I know that sounds condescending but it's a point that keeps getting brought up.

2. As for the Phrik armor...I do actually need to think about that. Once again I have to remind people that I basically have something between jack and shit to go on with the station so I'll need to try to figure out if that can be an actual thing.

Edit: Have I mentioned just how much I hate that I have so little canon information on something so important to the narrative? Because I do. A lot.
 
Last edited:
Well. We will have something if the extra galactical murderous plant hippies arrive before the quest ends'.
Again, the Yuuzhon Vong (or however you spell that) do not exist in this Quest. The QM has already said this.

Or are you referring to some sort of plantoid species from the Unknown Regions that I haven't heard of before?
 
1. Er...no. I know I sound like a broken record, but the Foundry produces droids, not starships. It is not the Star Forge. I know that sounds condescending but it's a point that keeps getting brought up.

2. As for the Phrik armor...I do actually need to think about that. Once again I have to remind people that I basically have something between jack and shit to go on with the station so I'll need to try to figure out if that can be an actual thing.

Edit: Have I mentioned just how much I hate that I have so little canon information on something so important to the narrative? Because I do. A lot.
Sorry. I thought, given hyperspace mining probes, snubfighters were not too much of a stretch, and scimitar isn't that much bigger.
 
Back
Top