UbeOne
Daydreaming CPU
- Location
- Philippines
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Wrong thread...
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May The Invisible Hand Be With You - (Star Wars CK2-Style Quest)
- Thread starter Dr. Snark
- Start date
- Sci-Fi
-
- Tags
- star wars canon what canon tsundere dice ck2 quest actions have consequences all the credits all work and no play makes ciaran a dull girl best sister capitalism ho! despairing qm teetotaller society member gotta catch 'em all insanity looting off the rails sage dice approaching spicy sheev tsundere asajj
Wrong thread...
- Location
- Germany
You saw nothing.
trooperist
Cinnamon Roll AI
Now I only question if we can hold the CNS together after the war is over or if everyone will go back to the Republic or whatever they were doing before.
Ciaran is the head of a criminal syndicate that has murdered, blackmailed, corrupted, stolen and enacted fraud on a grand scale in the name of power and wealth.
Ciaran has aided war criminals and gangsters escape justice and has every desire to be able to manipulate the Senate at will.
She has the blood of hundreds, possibly thousands on her hands.
Ciaran is definitely a villain.
- Location
- Germany
- Pronouns
- He/Him
And safed millions. If you do a tally, tally everything.
...
I propose not to continue a morality debate, at least not in-thread.
That's (major) part of why she is an interesting character to read about.
- Location
- Tulsa Oklahoma
Another question that needs to be asked is how to make sure the CNS is to be organized? With how many more planets are now part of the CNS, I suspect that the methods to mediate disputes and maintain a unified front will need to be reexamined.
Killerflood
Corporal Cannonfodder
- Location
- Saṃsāra
To some, sure, but to others she's the only one who's cared. She's more than just a cartoon villain and I would hope you'd agree with me. She's done all of the things you have listed but as MTB said she's helped just as many. You've chosen to focus in on a subset of her actions but ignored the motivations behind them.
She's selfish. She knows this. We know this.
What you are missing though is that she is not heartless nor is she so selfish that she becomes un-self-aware. She has people she cares about. Padme is an idealist who we would consider a good person with our modern day comfortable values. Guess who's Ciaran's best friend? Would Palpatine have someone like that as a best friend? Palpatine doesn't even have friends. He has tools. I mentioned this earlier in the first thread but Ciaran's council is a group of personalities that are more likely to clash than anything, but they all get along together well without any secret plans for backstabbing. A person unable to care wouldn't have been able to create that.
A true villain (Note that I say villain and not antagonist.) wouldn't have spared a thought about such things as family or agreed with the idea of employee benefits in a criminal organization. Family would be leverage to be used against them and benefits are a waste of credits to someone who's largest vice is Greed with a humongous 'G'.
If you look at Ciaran's motivations very very simply, she cares only for staying rich. This is how some see her, notably Palpatine and Dooku who for some stupid reason still only see her as a 2D caricature of scrooge concealed by the fresh scent of Fabreeze. (Seriously, what is up with that?)
Where some might see Lex Luthor at his worse, I see Dr. Doom at his best. A Villain to some but only to those in his way and sometimes not even then.
- Location
- Tulsa Oklahoma
Well, with how much we have accomplished in so short a time, I can see the similarities between Ciaran and Scrooge McDuck.
Tasoli
Life is for Living
- Location
- Behind the Keyboard.
Huh that sounds like she is a good Capitalist in the every sense of the word.
Artorias: Force User raised to Tier 3.
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- Location
- america
what's tier 4 going to be?
- Location
- Germany
Non-existent.
Characters without name never get better than that.
NexysDhyArchen
Throne Breaker
Chosen Undead: Minion breaks into Tier 4, Gains Named Character Status.
- Location
- Australia
People are saying that Ciaran isn't a villain just because she's not disney evil like Palpatine. You guys just don't know enough types of villains. She is most definitely a villain, but the type of villain she is is an Anti-Villain. She's basically the definition of one.
We put a lot of effort into maintaining that image in public. It helps that we're pretty much that in private too (see: reactions to Chu'unthor and Arkanian Legacy).
Once we get thousands of years worth of experience, knowledge, and tradition like the Jedi and the Sith have, we'll find out.
Oh yes, she's saved far more people than she's killed, she's far from an inhuman monster, but that doesn't change the fact that she's had people murdered for the sake of profit, that she's hurt innocent people for selfish reasons.
Just because one does good things doesn't wipe away one's sins.
But you're correct, this isn't the time for morality debates, I'll just state my responses and then be done.
Too right, that's where the complexity comes in, she's arguably a net good for the galaxy and has brought prosperity and safety to trillions of people. It's just that she's also a ruthless crime lord who's real objection to the Clone War is likely that it's bad for business.
Indeed, I love the humanising aspects of Ciaran's character, her real affection for Padme, the glee she takes in teasing and tormenting Obi-Wan as well as the self-indulgent preening she so enjoys when the centre of attention.
I can agree with the Dr. Doom comparison, like Doom she's a Great person, wrestling with Fate with all her virtues and vices magnified and impacting the world around her.
But she is by no means is she a hero in the same manner Obi-Wan, Anakin or Padme is, I couldn't imagine Ciaran putting herself at risk to save an innocent person for no gain, at most she'd probably be irritated at the waste.
She'd be horrified by truly evil things or acts, certainly, she's capable of empathy and compassion. She loves and feels, she's not a twisted monster like Palpatine.
She's a wise one to be sure.
It could be an option to replace losses among our heroes, it's entirely possible, even probable that we'll lose characters like the Silencer, Grievous, HK-47 and Asajj when we confront Palpatine.
Basically Ciaran takes on said Abyss Walker as an Apprentice of sorts, which could require personal actions to progress their training into a galactic level badass, I'd wager the difference between Tier 3 and 'named hero' for an Abyss Walker would be mainly mastery of the Force given our Force users are already badasses on the mundane scale.
- Location
- Tromso, Norway.
Perhaps as a reward for a critical success or something.
Now I am getting Dark Souls vibes. Hilariously enough, I could actually imagine someone take some of those elements and make it a Dark Side world that would not contradict the setting too much. Mainly because it only takes place on one planet.
Also see how long our Sith Lord lasts in that place before he inevitably gets killed. For what is Dark Souls without the iconic dying all the time?
- Location
- america
i wanted to know what it would be. also whatever they're called will be like a jedi master.
I finally bit the bullet and checked the wiki. I think I found something...
Except all of this took place in 21 BBY, and was the reason Rush Clovis was originally discredited and disgraced. That's why it was so surprising he managed to make a comeback. OTOH, it's possible that we're responsible for mangling the timeline in this as well, so it's possible Clovis hasn't been disgraced, and Cato Neimoidia is the 'unknown recipient' referred to by the turn text.Rush Clovis/Legends said:
It's worth pointing out that there's a basic disconnect between Separatist Space (i.e., the systems supporting it) and the Separatist war machine. The actual armies and fleets used by the CIS come from a few mega-corporate conglomerates -- Techno Union and Trade Federation in particular. Our efforts have (mostly) removed the IGBC from the Separatist equation, and we're working on the Commerce Guild, but we don't really have an 'in' with either the Techno Union or the Trade Federation. As long as their contributions to the war remain, we can nom nom nom Outer Rim systems to our hearts' content without affecting whether the war continues.
Plus, you know, it's Palpatine -- he'll find some way to ensure the war keeps going.
At the moment the CNS political structure is still "loosely organized alliance of systems who agree to stay out of the war." The military side of things is much more solid -- every system's Planetary Defense Forces train together and communicate with a single joint chain of command -- and the economic side is humming along thanks to Ciaran's investments and our arrangement of Favored Nation trading status within the CNS. But politically... well, mostly it's Duchess Satine and Ciaran herself, focusing on recruiting member worlds and bringing peace to the galaxy.
I expect this will remain for a while -- there isn't an immediate need for a formal political organization, and there probably won't be such a need until later, in the immediate build-up to (or aftermath of) the Palpatine fight. Especially if we need to counteract his political influence, or if we're unable to get that boss battle before Palpatine declares a New Order (at which point we might need to secede from/declare war on the new Empire...) then an independent government would be needed. But for the moment it's still a loose federation -- more similar to the US Articles of Confederation, than to the US Constitution. And considering what we need & what we're using it for, that sounds fine to me.
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- Location
- Australia
How do we not have an in with the Trade Federation? Our relationship with them is 9/10 and the guy pulling their strings - Nute Gunray - is grateful to us after the efforts we spent keeping him out of prison.
I meant, we don't have a way to pull the Trade Federation out of the war, not like we did & do for IGBC and Commerce Guild. The Trade Federation likes us, but they've been in Palpatine's pocket since long before we came on the scene. If someone has suggestions for leverage we might have to draw the Trade Federation out of the war, I'd love to hear them, but I can't think of anything.
I don't doubt he will, I just fear his method will be something like set up a peace treaty signing somewhere, with us hosting it due to our trusted relationship across both sides or whatever and then trying to arrange our assassination in such a manner that the Republic, CIS and CNS all think the others did it, sparking an even more ferocious three way war.
Now, I'm sure we could survive most things, even possibly Dooku, and even if not we've experienced the echo of Nihilus' power, we might be able to cling to some shadow of life if needed.
But, uh, I'd prefer if Darth Sidious didn't get creative, I half expect him to drop a space ship on us one of these days.
I'm gonna laugh so hard if we end up basically in control of the Republic centred on Taris. It'd be a charming return to form though, the Republic vs the Sith Empire.