...You're sure you've never ever played either of the KOTOR games? Because dear god man you are nailing HK. Currently non-canon, +10.



Butterfly effect. The need to have relevant Hero Actions for Silas. Because it didn't really affect anything major so I wouldn't need to worry about the proper timeframe. Take your pick but I wouldn't worry about it too much since I don't plan on really doing anything else with the planet.

Also finally edited in the relevant stuff for traits and the updated codebreaker action. If you don't want to go back and check, here's a TL;DR:

Ciaran: Hey, we found this spy in your company-
Talesan: SPY!? *breaks out flamethrower* SPY CHECK! SPY CHECK!
Fry Associate: Yeeeeahhhh, he's going to be at that for a while. We're going to have to push back the sale date until later, mmmkay?
Could you start posing the stuff you add to the updates in their own posts as well? Some people only check in on this thread when you make a post that triggers the update system on the site. It would be nice not to miss parts of the quest just because it gets added in later.
 
For one, there were ruins dating back to the Rakatan Infinite Empire, the ancient empire that once dominated the galaxy. While there was nothing of too much value present you did appreciate the chance for the teams to examine them at least.
Can we extract these ruins and sell them? They might not have any practical use but there ought to be some collectors who would be interested. Failing that, can we expand our Vault to contain the ruins? Finally, I'd like to recommend Durge's helmet as an addition to the Vault.

EDIT: Maybe we can build an RIE museum?
 
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Do... do you know what ruins are? Because they're big, and expansive, and built into the landscape.
That just means we'll need to do a lot of digging, not that it's impossible. Or is it actually impossible?

EDIT: Actually, never mind. I was being silly. I've snapped out of it now.
 
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The thing is that, if we go with a fully pragmatic plan, and we take him down poisoning him, or blowing him away as an intrigue action, the Final Epic Battle will turn up as anticlimactic as waiting until the End in MGS3 dies from old age...

This is an example of a fully pragmatic approach to the elimination of a powerful Magician/Lord Sith


See? Very effective, relatively easy, and even funny, but anticlimactic as fuck...

You are avare that doesn't actually work right? That guy escapes and attacks him later on and had to be killed in a personal combat.
 
You are avare that doesn't actually work right? That guy escapes and attacks him later on and had to be killed in a personal combat.
Exept the target survived and they did have a kinda climatic battle with guns and magic and all that later.
Not the best example.
Yes, I know that in this case Kayneth survives, but it was the best video I could think to illustrate the situation in which an arrogant Magus/Sith/Jedi has the absolute certainty that their mastery over the Magic/Force makes them unbeatable, and then someone finds an easy and effective way to pass through these defenses and blow them sky high.

To discuss ruthless pragmatism it may have been better this video, in which the End dies of old age in MGS3, if you wait a week, but it wasn´t as aesthetically appealing as the other one...


But it also is very good to show how the most pragmatic route is usually rather low in emotion, epicness and fun, and it can be quite boring.
 
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Yes, I know that in this case Kayneth survives, but it was the best video I could think to illustrate the situation in which an arrogant Magus/Sith/Jedi has the absolute certainty that their mastery over the Magic/Force makes them unbeatable, and then someone finds an easy and effective way to pass through these defenses and blow them sky high.

To discuss ruthless pragmatism it may have been better this video, in which the End dies of old age in MGS3, if you wait a week, but it wasn´t as aesthetically appealing as the other one...


But it also is very good to show how the most pragmatic route is usually rather low in emotion, epicness and fun, and it can be quite boring.


I don't think either of those examples show easy pragmatic solutions. The first was extremely elaborate, and also quite impossible in our case. It would be quite difficult to stealthily install charges all around the enemy's personal seat of power. Even then, it would be quite impossible to evacuate the whole senatorial palace, or whatever that place would be, without Palpatine noticing. I mean, we could do it as one of our plans, but it would definitely one of the plans that fails. Just as it failed in the video you linked.

As for the other example: Waiting for an enemy to die of old age is somehow pragmatic? I mean, it may be in extremely select circumstances, but I can assure you, that Palpatine is not someone we can just wait out.

I know your point was meant to be something akin to "Requiring a climatic battle likely eliminates several of the plans most optimized for success and personal safety.", but your examples are both, frankly, terrible. Sorry if I happened to misunderstand your argument or the point of your examples. Anyway, I don't think there actually are any easy ways to get rid of Palpatine, but I'm curious how you would go about defeating him.
 
I know your point was meant to be something akin to "Requiring a climatic battle likely eliminates several of the plans most optimized for success and personal safety.", but your examples are both, frankly, terrible. Sorry if I happened to misunderstand your argument or the point of your examples. Anyway, I don't think there actually are any easy ways to get rid of Palpatine, but I'm curious how you would go about defeating him.
Tragic courier ship accident, involving a course miscalculation at terminal approach and full throttle. Coupled with a mysterious malfunction of the planetary shield.
Sewer repairs below the palace.
Battle fleet crossing the course of the inspection frigate Palpatine uses.
Sniper squads.

Problem with all of them is fooling future sight and preparation.
 
Tragic courier ship accident, involving a course miscalculation at terminal approach and full throttle. Coupled with a mysterious malfunction of the planetary shield.
Sewer repairs below the palace.
Battle fleet crossing the course of the inspection frigate Palpatine uses.
Sniper squads.

Problem with all of them is fooling future sight and preparation.

Plus it'd be boring and a terrible end for a villain.

Nobody like an anti-climax when it comes to scary villains.
 
Plus it'd be boring and a terrible end for a villain.

Nobody like an anti-climax when it comes to scary villains.
I wouldn't have a problem if we try all of that and more and Palpatine credibly survives it, requiring personal action (because after that the whole Empire will hunt Ciaran, Prio 1, 2, 3 and 518). Her NOT coming up with this type of plans would break my immersion in the story.
 
The first was extremely elaborate, and also quite impossible in our case.
Plus it's a terrible example of pragmatism considering that his standard MO is double tap his target with an anti magic sniper rifle, not drop a building on them. That may actually be the single least pragmatic attack in his entire career.
People keep saying that, but I disagree. I like to see the worst enemies go out not with a bang, but with a whimper. It feels extra satisfying to me if they completely fail to accomplish much of anything with their deaths.
The best way to know that you have truly won is that your opponents fall without any chance of saving themselves. Not some gigantic battle.
 
If we go for a duel, it'll be as if we are saying, you know what? I have all these options that I could use to break you, to erase you from history, but instead lets fight to the death out of pride.

It just... doesn't really fit.

It's throwing away all our advantages to meet our enemy on a field they specialize in.

It's such a Jedi thing to do.
 
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If we go for a duel, it'll be as if we are saying, you know what? I have all these options that I could use to break you, to erase you from history, but instead lets fight to the death out of pride.

It just... doesn't really fit.
Honestly, we are not the only ones out for Palpatine's blood. The Empire is not nice, makes enemies left and right, and the Emperor survives the assassination attempts. It can't be easy to come up with a successful plot (quest anyone?), but as first and last idea 'let's storm the palace/Death Star' - no.
 
This subject has been pretty much beaten to death. It's not changing.
So you are happy with the fact that all the characterization of us being an intrigue leader is being thrown out the window for a dramatic duel which is the very opposite of what we are?

I'd prefer an anti-climactic ending which actually fits the character instead of changing it all just for drama.

The last time I saw so much story thrown away for no good reason it was Mass Effect 3.
 
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So you are happy with the fact that all the characterization of us being an intrigue leader is being thrown out the window for a dramatic duel which is the very opposite of what we are?

I'd prefer an anti-climactic ending which actually fits the character instead of changing it all just for drama.
I think the people in favor of dropping the subject are primarily considering the devastating effect seeing one's writing decisions criticized up and down over fifty pages of discussion can have on writer motivation. I know it would demoralize me.
 
I think the people in favor of dropping the subject are primarily considering the devastating effect seeing one's writing decisions criticized up and down over fifty pages of discussion can have on writer motivation. I know it would demoralize me.

Dr. Snark is a good writer, but if someone makes a controversial decision, they have to expect controversy. The fact that so many people care to such a degree would encourage me more than it would discourage me.
 
I think the people in favor of dropping the subject are primarily considering the devastating effect seeing one's writing decisions criticized up and down over fifty pages of discussion can have on writer motivation. I know it would demoralize me.
We did look for options and possibilies. I venture a bet and say that most posters would be okay with 'your assassination attempts were not successful, Palpatine and three of his Death Guard are still alive, reinforcements are inbound, the only assets at place are Ciaran and ... . What do you do?'
Most of those (whose posts I read) arguing are mostly against a out-of-character action like 'to get rid of Palpi, let's storm the palace.'
 
Dr. Snark is a good writer, but if someone makes a controversial decision, they have to expect controversy. The fact that so many people care to such a degree would encourage me more than it would discourage me.

You're comparing this to the original ending of Mass Effect 3. There's controversy, and there's that.

We did look for options and possibilies. I venture a bet and say that most posters would be okay with 'your assassination attempts were not successful, Palpatine and three of his Death Guard are still alive, reinforcements are inbound, the only assets at place are Ciaran and ... . What do you do?'
Most of those (whose posts I read) arguing are mostly against a out-of-character action like 'to get rid of Palpi, let's storm the palace.'

I understand that, I'm just not sure arguing for this long, this hard, is productive.
 
You're comparing this to the original ending of Mass Effect 3. There's controversy, and there's that.
I'm comparing it in terms of story thrown away, not in terms of actual ending being as bad.

That's saying this story is as good as Mass Effect 1+2, don't waste that on a major OOC ending. Not, No matter what you do, you'll only ever be as good as Mass Effect 3's ending.
 
I'm comparing it in terms of story thrown away, not in terms of actual ending being as bad.

That's saying this story is as good as Mass Effect 1+2, don't waste that on a major OOC ending. Not, No matter what you do, you'll only ever be as good as Mass Effect 3's ending.
And that's a very depressing thing to see from the writer's perspective. But more than that, it's a point we've retread over and over for so many pages, and nobody has changed their mind. It may be about the thread and the quest at hand, yes, but so little is being accomplished that it might as well be a total derail.
 
Okay, rereading the last bit and a bit before that, I think we actually have less of a true disagreement but at least for some of you more of a misunderstanding. To clarify what I mean:

No one wants Ciaran to go out and duel Palpatine. That would be grossly out of character and suicidally stupid.
 
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Okay, rereading the last bit and a bit before that, I think we actually have less of a true disagreement but at least for some of you more of a misunderstanding. To clarify what I mean:

No one wants Ciaran to go out and duel Palpatine. That would be grossly out of character and suicidally stupid.
jesus christ.
this is true, it's also true that we will fight him in personal combat sooner or later because if we don't he will most likely appear out of nowhere and try to gank us because we failed in the assassination attempt.
 
My own point is that I feel like the Jedi should be involved and key in the climatic battle because they have more reason to be there than we do even if we are the ones setting the entire thing up and distract that Palpatine at that last moment, likely by countering an ace that would allow him to somehow pull through and engaging him directly precisely because it would be such an unexpected thing for us to do and thus perfect to draw his attention away from where he really should keep it.

From the posts I got the impression that apparently the choices were they never getting involved with us doing it alone(the preferred), them doing it all by themselves and pulling an assassination instead of a fight, all of which I find equally problematic if in different ways.
 
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