Lex Sedet In Vertice: A Supervillain in the DCU CK2 quest

What sort of tone should I shoot for with this Quest?

  • Go as crack fueled as you can we want Ambush Bug, Snowflame and Duckseid

    Votes: 30 7.7%
  • Go for something silly but keep a little bit of reason

    Votes: 31 7.9%
  • Adam West Camp

    Votes: 27 6.9%
  • Balanced as all things should be

    Votes: 195 50.0%
  • Mostly serious but not self-involvedly so

    Votes: 73 18.7%
  • Dark and brooding but with light at the end of the tunnel

    Votes: 12 3.1%
  • We're evil and we don't want anyone to be happy

    Votes: 22 5.6%

  • Total voters
    390
  • Poll closed .
@King crimson: For what it is worth, this is the first Supervillain Quest I've been a part of. So the Test Subject experiments was quite the rare and unusual experience, and doing villainy things is something I'm actually interested by in general for stories.

Speaking of villainy things going wrong... How much analysis was done regarding the dissolved Project Atom subject? Does Lex believe they could replicate the result, or does it appear to be an unique outcome?
He believes he could replicate it. The current theory is that while he could mimic the alien engine he couldn't match the output and thus the energized lifeform was not as charged as Eiling's. The theory is that the difference in charge between the two is what caused different reactions (dissipation vs. explosion).
 
Bump Rose up by 2 intrigue and her and Mercy make a great pairing. Stat and coop spreadsheet has been updated.

Been in and out of the discussion, have we made any progress on figuring out how to get a 2nd hero action for Lex? Also if we can get Rose to be okay with our less than legal actions and buy in then that gives us a good intrigue hero to do some of our less than nice stuff with.

Also just imaging the martial boost once we get proper exosuits up and running to give to Rose, Mercy, Roxanne and Katherine makes me happy.


Lex Science combos:
Lex+Mercy 36+18 to roll +10+5 from traits after roll for +54 to roll and +15 to end
Lex+Pam 36+33 to roll and +5 from traits after roll for +69 to roll and +5 to end
Lex+Ivo 36+16 to roll and +5 from traits after roll for +52 to roll and +5 to end (so yes we get better results on science for working with Mercy than Ivo)
Lex+Rebecca 36+17 to roll and +5 from traits after roll for +53 to roll and +5 to end but can be used on Magic
Lex+Karl 36+15 to roll and +5 from traits after roll for +51 to roll and +5 to end
Lex+Cassandra 36+20 to roll and +5 from traits after roll for +56 to roll and +5 to end (yes Cassandra is the third best learning combo with Lex for roll bonus fourth for total bonus, though she does have a +5 on cellphone learning actions) and on top of it each point of learning for Cassandra is +2 to the roll.
Lex+Felicity 36+21 to roll and +5 from traits after roll for +57 to roll and +5 to end with some

Also for true science power:
Lex+Pam+Cassandra for +36+33+20 or +89 to the roll and +10 to the final result (technically Felicity is 1 higher on the roll and mercy is 2 lower on the roll but +10 to the end but it is harder to use Cass elsewhere than those two)
 
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Friendly reminder that the redesign a minor villain contest is still ongoing and that it will be helpful. The characters listed have a good chance of showing up.
 
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That is fair and I understand where you are coming from. I'm sorry that things have been getting frustrating for you. The thing I will say is that you do not need to always engage with others (so long as you remain civil). As QM I feel obligated to at least respond to questions posed to me but you do not have to. If your plan has already won you do not need to defend it and the reasons for it. I don't have an easy solution for this situation.

On the one hand you are right having to reiterate the same few things again and again gets annoying fast. On the other hand I don't think Kkutlord is being malicious and I don't want to discourage asking questions. It's a fine line that I'm trying to walk and I don't have any good solutions.
I will endeavor to be more chill. Real life events can make me... irritable, as can certain Internet events not involving this thread. I should be more mindful.
 
Bump Rose up by 2 intrigue and her and Mercy make a great pairing. Stat and coop spreadsheet has been updated.

Been in and out of the discussion, have we made any progress on figuring out how to get a 2nd hero action for Lex? Also if we can get Rose to be okay with our less than legal actions and buy in then that gives us a good intrigue hero to do some of our less than nice stuff with.

Also just imaging the martial boost once we get proper exosuits up and running to give to Rose, Mercy, Roxanne and Katherine makes me happy.


Lex Science combos:
Lex+Mercy 36+18 to roll +10+5 from traits after roll for +54 to roll and +15 to end
Lex+Pam 36+33 to roll and +5 from traits after roll for +69 to roll and +5 to end
Lex+Ivo 36+16 to roll and +5 from traits after roll for +52 to roll and +5 to end (so yes we get better results on science for working with Mercy than Ivo)
Lex+Rebecca 36+17 to roll and +5 from traits after roll for +53 to roll and +5 to end but can be used on Magic
Lex+Karl 36+15 to roll and +5 from traits after roll for +51 to roll and +5 to end
Lex+Cassandra 36+20 to roll and +5 from traits after roll for +56 to roll and +5 to end (yes Cassandra is the third best learning combo with Lex for roll bonus fourth for total bonus, though she does have a +5 on cellphone learning actions) and on top of it each point of learning for Cassandra is +2 to the roll.
Lex+Felicity 36+21 to roll and +5 from traits after roll for +57 to roll and +5 to end with some

Also for true science power:
Lex+Pam+Cassandra for +36+33+20 or +89 to the roll and +10 to the final result (technically Felicity is 1 higher on the roll and mercy is 2 lower on the roll but +10 to the end but it is harder to use Cass elsewhere than those two)
you are forgetting the father-daughter bond bonus for lex-cassandra actions
 
you are forgetting the father-daughter bond bonus for lex-cassandra actions
I could be misunderstanding @King crimson , but it sounds like that bonus only works when Lex teaches Cassandra something, as opposed to a fully generic learning action like "learn more about engineering."

The text of the option says: "+at the end of calculation to any action in which Lex teaches Cassandra something."

With that said, we should totally take more teaching actions when we can, preferably something like every other turn, with Lex only shifting to other activities for special circumstances. I'm only even considering having Lex do something else this turn because we may need his "gets along well with most of our hero units" trait to lead a megacollaboration on A.M.A.Z.O. or fighting Intergang.
 
I could be misunderstanding @King crimson , but it sounds like that bonus only works when Lex teaches Cassandra something, as opposed to a fully generic learning action like "learn more about engineering."

The text of the option says: "+at the end of calculation to any action in which Lex teaches Cassandra something."

With that said, we should totally take more teaching actions when we can, preferably something like every other turn, with Lex only shifting to other activities for special circumstances. I'm only even considering having Lex do something else this turn because we may need his "gets along well with most of our hero units" trait to lead a megacollaboration on A.M.A.Z.O. or fighting Intergang.
AMAZO is best tackled by having our learning heroes take actions to reduce the DC. Also fairly sure the bonus is as you say when you take an action to teach Cass like we did with science. Now if we could get rid of the last bit of debuff that Cass has to communication than she becomes a crazy strong choice for Lex on learning actions with a +76 bonus, +5 to end result with them both providing a bonus on cellphone rolls.

I think we got a partial list from the QM a turn or two back in the discussion on learning actions that would help lower AMAZO DC.

Edit:
Actions that reduce AMAZO dc:
Nanotechnology per here
AI per here (which we did this turn)

If there are more they are not easily found

@King crimson
Would any of the following actions reduce AMAZO dc (or could we get a list of the ones that would)
Learn about the brain - this or something unlocked by it mainly that an upload of the mind would benefit from better understanding of it
Learn more about cybernetics this or the option below for the actual construction
Learn about robotics see the option above for comment
Learn about computers due to an android needing a powerful computer to run off of plus software programming
Develop a working decoy bot as it can serve as a test platform for some of the ideas that go into amazo
Improve learning program improvement to machine learning
 
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AMAZO is best tackled by having our learning heroes take actions to reduce the DC.
The problem is that Ivo is going to get understandably antsy about this work if we don't actually work on the project itself, too. We don't know how much time he has, and even the transplant organs will only go far given that he'll have to take time recovering from the surgery.

Also fairly sure the bonus is as you say when you take an action to teach Cass like we did with science. Now if we could get rid of the last bit of debuff that Cass has to communication than she becomes a crazy strong choice for Lex on learning actions with a +76 bonus, +5 to end result with them both providing a bonus on cellphone rolls.

I think we got a partial list from the QM a turn or two back in the discussion on learning actions that would help lower AMAZO DC.

Actions that reduce AMAZO dc:
Nanotechnology per here
AI per here (which we did this turn)

If there are more they are not easily found
@King crimson :

I second @Void Stalker 's questions about fields where we might be able to make the A.M.A.Z.O. project easier with ancillary research.

...

Anyway, with that said, researching nanotech has a DC of 222- even higher than A.M.A.Z.O. It's not reliably accessible without a mega-collaboration, and even a mega-collaboration might fail. Researching AI had a DC of 'only' 78 last turn, likely higher now but not necessarily by much since our success was pretty marginal. While there may be 'low-hanging fruit' options with a low DC that reduce A.M.A.Z.O. DC, I think it would be optimistic to expect much out of that.

I don't think Dr. Ivo is going to stay satisfied with his current research program if he spends three or four turns in a row not directly working on A.M.A.Z.O. He didn't get mad at us about the alien tech because the spinoff potential massively advanced his project. He didn't get mad at us about the AI, admittedly. But if we keep this up turn after turn, he's going to get cranky, and Ivo doesn't seem to cope well with being cranky.

Right now, the DC is 105, possibly minus a little for progress made in AI research. To drop it down to something that Ivo+Dahl can handle easily, we'd need to lower the DC by 50 or more... and that's probably going to take like five or more ancillary support actions. Given that we're probably not planning on investing that many action points into the research in the next turn or two, and don't have enough spare Learning heroes to guarantee success even if we did...

If we don't at least occasionally try to "spike" progress on A.M.A.Z.O. by overwhelming the DC, Ives is going to be waiting a year or more before we let him get back to the project. Given his expected lifespan, that's a long time to ask a man to wait.

...

So I say we at least try here and now, given how easy it is for us to stack up a +95 team:

(Lex's Learning 36) + (Ivo's Learning 0.5*33 = 17) + (Cassandra's Learning (2.0*(15-5) = 20) + (Lex's bonus 3*5 = +10) + (Ivo's bonus +7)

Lex+Cassandra+Ivo collaborating on the project gives us +90 on the die roll, an 85% chance of success, and a very good chance of breakthrough success from a crit, as I understand it.

Lex+Cassandra+Ivo+Marie gives us +106 on the die roll and assured success, though no rerolls and a disappointing result is possible.

And that's before we even consider pulling in any other Learning heroes like Dr. Isley or Ms. Smoak.

...

About the only reason I'd stop wanting this is if we have a very high DC must-do Martial or Intrigue action for which we need Lex to lead the megacollaboration (since he has higher co-op scores than most of his subordinates, and synergy bonuses from leading big teams). That's admittedly quite possible, granted.

Now, to be fair, we COULD try something like throwing Lex+Cassandra at one option that lowers the DC on A.M.A.Z.O. next turn, and Ivo+Dahl at another option with a DC of 50 or lower if we can find one. But we can't afford many repeats of what happened this turn, where Ivo works really hard and gets a very marginal success on the die roll that probably won't have that much of an effect. He's going to run out of time that way, even with the organ transplants.
 
The problem is that Ivo is going to get understandably antsy about this work if we don't actually work on the project itself, too. We don't know how much time he has, and even the transplant organs will only go far given that he'll have to take time recovering from the surgery.

@King crimson :

I second @Void Stalker 's questions about fields where we might be able to make the A.M.A.Z.O. project easier with ancillary research.

...

Anyway, with that said, researching nanotech has a DC of 222- even higher than A.M.A.Z.O. It's not reliably accessible without a mega-collaboration, and even a mega-collaboration might fail. Researching AI had a DC of 'only' 78 last turn, likely higher now but not necessarily by much since our success was pretty marginal. While there may be 'low-hanging fruit' options with a low DC that reduce A.M.A.Z.O. DC, I think it would be optimistic to expect much out of that.

I don't think Dr. Ivo is going to stay satisfied with his current research program if he spends three or four turns in a row not directly working on A.M.A.Z.O. He didn't get mad at us about the alien tech because the spinoff potential massively advanced his project. He didn't get mad at us about the AI, admittedly. But if we keep this up turn after turn, he's going to get cranky, and Ivo doesn't seem to cope well with being cranky.

Right now, the DC is 105, possibly minus a little for progress made in AI research. To drop it down to something that Ivo+Dahl can handle easily, we'd need to lower the DC by 50 or more... and that's probably going to take like five or more ancillary support actions. Given that we're probably not planning on investing that many action points into the research in the next turn or two, and don't have enough spare Learning heroes to guarantee success even if we did...

If we don't at least occasionally try to "spike" progress on A.M.A.Z.O. by overwhelming the DC, Ives is going to be waiting a year or more before we let him get back to the project. Given his expected lifespan, that's a long time to ask a man to wait.

...

So I say we at least try here and now, given how easy it is for us to stack up a +95 team:

(Lex's Learning 36) + (Ivo's Learning 0.5*33 = 17) + (Cassandra's Learning (2.0*(15-5) = 20) + (Lex's bonus 3*5 = +10) + (Ivo's bonus +7)

Lex+Cassandra+Ivo collaborating on the project gives us +90 on the die roll, an 85% chance of success, and a very good chance of breakthrough success from a crit, as I understand it.

Lex+Cassandra+Ivo+Marie gives us +106 on the die roll and assured success, though no rerolls and a disappointing result is possible.

And that's before we even consider pulling in any other Learning heroes like Dr. Isley or Ms. Smoak.

...

About the only reason I'd stop wanting this is if we have a very high DC must-do Martial or Intrigue action for which we need Lex to lead the megacollaboration (since he has higher co-op scores than most of his subordinates, and synergy bonuses from leading big teams). That's admittedly quite possible, granted.

Now, to be fair, we COULD try something like throwing Lex+Cassandra at one option that lowers the DC on A.M.A.Z.O. next turn, and Ivo+Dahl at another option with a DC of 50 or lower if we can find one. But we can't afford many repeats of what happened this turn, where Ivo works really hard and gets a very marginal success on the die roll that probably won't have that much of an effect. He's going to run out of time that way, even with the organ transplants.

I agree its time to for megacollaboration on amazo.
 
Yes but that is why we put Ivo on amazo and use lex and others on projects that reduce DC. Like karl and Pam on learning about brains.
 
King crimson Adopting Villain Iron Mask (sorry if not great)
In the comics Iron Mask is a villain who get scared in a fight with Doll Man. Since I don't see if a hero would do that and don't know that much about Doll Man how about making him a gang lord in Gotham who got on the wrong side of Joker and got acid thrown in his face when he gets found by a lock smith who healed him up but after seeing what he looked like he murdered the locksmith and stole an Iron maiden and locked his face inside
 
Yes but that is why we put Ivo on amazo and use lex and others on projects that reduce DC. Like karl and Pam on learning about brains.
If we put Ivo on Amazo (or Ivo+Dahl since Marie Dahl is the only person who can work with him efficiently), then the project has at best around a 50/50 chance of success and is unlikely to achieve an impressive result.

We need to put another big gun on the team if we want a good result, the kind of result that lets us finish A.M.A.Z.O. before the clock runs out on Ivo. And the thread consensus seems to be that we want to see A.M.A.Z.O. through to completion, or at least get much closer to completion before killing Ivo.

...

Now, let's think about our hero availability next turn.

Karl is on a much shorter clock than Ivo: 2-4 turns before he loses patience and injects himself with a flawed bone growth formula that will turn him into a horrifically deformed bone-monster. He's not going to be available next turn, because either he needs a psychiatrist or he needs to make progress on his research. Depending on the DC, we may have to throw another hero at the project to have any reasonable chance of success. Since Pamela's the only Learning hero that works well with Karl, that limits our options pretty sharply.

Now, we do actually have a lot of other heroes with high enough Learning that if we throw enough of them at things calculated to lower A.M.A.Z.O. DC, some of them will succeed. Rebecca has Learning 19. Mercy has Learning 10 but a bonus that gives +10 to whatever she works on. Felicity has Learning 18, Oswald has Learning 14

But at the same time, those are some of our best Martial, Diplomacy, Intrigue, and Stewardship heroes, too! And we have some high priorities this year, because Intergang's alien tech appears to be getting stronger every turn, and they are clearly accumulating resources in preparation for their next strike.

So realistically, most if not all our hero units will be occupied with Martial/Intrigue actions, or Diplomacy actions taken in support of those actions. We're not going to have a lot of spare hero-power to throw at other things, and what little we do have needs to be prioritized on Karl and on A.M.A.Z.O. research.

...

If Intergang weren't a factor in our calculations, I'd support your idea as an outline for a plan next turn. But I think we're going to need to fight Intergang hard for a few turns, not just kick back and let others do it for us. And that means we can only sustain so many research projects at once.
 
DC should be reduced for the coming turn thanks to some progress on AI. If we had managed to grab freeze that would have helped. But we have to be better with our action choices.

And pam can do the brain learning action by herself.
 
DC should be reduced for the coming turn thanks to some progress on AI.
Yes, but by how much? If the DC only drops by -5 or something, then we've kind of wasted our time.

If we had managed to grab freeze that would have helped. But we have to be better with our action choices.
Look, if we really want more scientist hero units we can just take the "Recruit talented scientists" action any time we want to. It's a DC 36 Diplomatic action, so we can be pretty sure of blowing the doors off it pretty easily with Lex alone (let alone a collaboration). That's how we got Dr. Isley and Dr. Ives in the first place, on Turn 2.

Also, I resent the implication that we were stupid about the attempt to buy out Gothcorp; it would have been nice to snag that particular plum, but there will be other opportunities. The DCU is FULL of talented scientists and we have more promising avenues of research to pursue than we know what to do with; missing a shot at Fries isn't going to be a disaster, but it was worth gambling an AP on a reasonable (~70%) chance of gaining access.

And pam can do the brain learning action by herself.
Yeah, with her Learning 19 she has a good chance of it.

That's IF we don't need her Martial 21 (say, to help a team in Santa Prisca take down Vincent Edge) or Diplomacy 25 (say, to coordinate with the DOMA or General Eiling or the League of Shadows) next turn. Given the threat of Intergang, I don't think that's a good assumption to make.
 
Sorry the better with actions was more towards chosing actions each turn as we have been winding up with too many demands on hero units and actions that dont always fit with what we are trying to do.
 
Sorry the better with actions was more towards chosing actions each turn as we have been winding up with too many demands on hero units and actions that dont always fit with what we are trying to do.
Right.

Well, sometimes we take actions that are frankly a gamble, like a DC 44 action that we hope will let us recruit Victor Fries, or a DC 40 action that if successful might grant us +1 AP/turn about 2-3 turns earlier than would otherwise be possible.

And that's OK.

The main thing we need to do is make sure we're accurately calculating risk/reward tradeoffs.
 
Sorry I'm slow to respond I have an essay to finish
I could be misunderstanding @King crimson , but it sounds like that bonus only works when Lex teaches Cassandra something, as opposed to a fully generic learning action like "learn more about engineering."
You are correct.
@King crimson
Would any of the following actions reduce AMAZO dc (or could we get a list of the ones that would)
Learn about the brain - this or something unlocked by it mainly that an upload of the mind would benefit from better understanding of it
Learn more about cybernetics this or the option below for the actual construction
Learn about robotics see the option above for comment
Learn about computers due to an android needing a powerful computer to run off of plus software programming
Develop a working decoy bot as it can serve as a test platform for some of the ideas that go into amazo
Improve learning program improvement to machine learning
Can't get a full list up right now but I can say that the brain, robotics, computers and AI can help. Once I finish my work I'll get on it
King crimson Adopting Villain Iron Mask (sorry if not great)
In the comics Iron Mask is a villain who get scared in a fight with Doll Man. Since I don't see if a hero would do that and don't know that much about Doll Man how about making him a gang lord in Gotham who got on the wrong side of Joker and got acid thrown in his face when he gets found by a lock smith who healed him up but after seeing what he looked like he murdered the locksmith and stole an Iron maiden and locked his face inside
I will get on this.
 
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@Simon_Jester: We should probably have Oswald do a Lightyear action, as we shouldn't sit on our content too long. Overall though, I agree with the Intergang and Amazo focus. Plus, looting more Intergang tech should make Amazo easier.

Though the question is, what all should we do? We got 16 AP + 1 Supercomputer Action, and we got gearing up options like Super Costumes for our Hero Units. There's probably also synergetic options, like how "Acquire Test Subjects" got a bonus from "Kidnap Intergang".
 
Here is a list of every learning action that could reduce the AMAZO projects DC so far. Note that this is not a guarantee that they will do so but rather a confirmation that with a good enough roll they could lower the DC.
  • learn about the brain
  • learn about physics
  • learn about robotics
  • Learn about Nth metal
  • Learn about nanotech
  • learn about computers
  • improve AI
 
Can't get a full list up right now but I can say that the brain, robotics, computers and AI can help. Once I finish my work I'll get on it
OK, so that gives us:

Learn about the brain (DC 22)
Learn about computers (DC 25, DC 14 w/ Felicity who is +19 on the die roll)
Learn about robotics (DC 35)
Learn about physics (DC 74)
Improve AI (DC 78+)
Learn about Nth metal (???)
Learn about nanotech (DC 222)

Now, three of those actions (brain, robotics, computers) are reasonably likely to succeed even with no hero unit or a mediocre hero unit. One (computers) can easily be assured of decent or good success IF we commit Felicity. The others would require a hero collaboration to be assured of a good success, though a single talented Learning hero could give us favorable odds.

Improving AI or advancing our knowledge of physics is within reach for a strong teamup (Lex+Cass is strong enough, more or less, though we don't know by how much the DC on "Improve AI" rose). Learning about Nth metal will probably be rather difficult but might be doable without a massive teamup- hard to tell. Nanotech research is definitely teamup time.
 
Here is a list of every learning action that could reduce the AMAZO projects DC so far. Note that this is not a guarantee that they will do so but rather a confirmation that with a good enough roll they could lower the DC.
  • learn about the brain
  • learn about physics
  • learn about robotics
  • Learn about Nth metal
  • Learn about nanotech
  • learn about computers
  • improve AI
To be honest the brain should of been a clue (after AI in fiction are based on brains)
 
To be honest the brain should of been a clue (after AI in fiction are based on brains)
Uh, not necesssarily. The reason we thought "learn about the brain" might help is because this is specifically an upload project. Dr. Ivo's goal is to upload the contents of his brain into a robot body. And while we might well be able to program AIs that have nothing to do with the human brain, we surely need to do brain research to upload Ivo's mind into an AI.
 
Oh, actually, Pamela on "Learn Brains" would probably be good for improving her Pheromone abilities. Like how Rebecca improved her Healing magic by working on Biology stuff. That, and Learn Brains would probably make Improve AI easier, so...
 
Uh, not necesssarily. The reason we thought "learn about the brain" might help is because this is specifically an upload project. Dr. Ivo's goal is to upload the contents of his brain into a robot body. And while we might well be able to program AIs that have nothing to do with the human brain, we surely need to do brain research to upload Ivo's mind into an AI.
Well the Amazo thinks like a human does (the one from the cartoon at least) and that would require knowing the human mind but I get your point because it would need it for combing Ivo brain
 
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