Lex Sedet In Vertice: A Supervillain in the DCU CK2 quest

[Simon_Jester]

Awwww.... Here I was hoping Death is a tall bony dude who TALKS LIKE THIS with a scythe sharp enough to cut the fourth wall.

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They'd get along nicely, but the DCU's Death of the Endless is less socially awkward and more secure.

@King crimson: The idea of determinism is... Problematic, for many reasons. The notion that all suffering, all injustice, every monster of a person... The notion that was all forced by a higher power? Literally the kind of thought process that leads to people just... giving up and letting the world burn.

Personally, Determinism always seemed like a terrible belief to me. People don't bother to change because "that's just how it is", and seeing people even being shameless about being awful "because they had no choice"?

Determinism is just, a nightmarish thing: some higher force randomly decides if you get to be Good and Bad, and then punishes you for a decision it made against your will.

So, admittedly, all us writers are Lovecraftian nightmare-horrors because Determinism is literally what we're doing when developing stories. Which certainly explains a lot, if "higher powers" are actually just storywriters.

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I've personally never actually understood this objection to determinism.

The fact that someone knows what you are going to do doesn't mean you didn't do it, or that it doesn't reflect on you, or doesn't affect you. If I know you're going to steal the last cookie from the cookie jar, even if I somehow know with 100% confidence because I used a magic crystal ball of omniscience to predict such a development... Well, you're still the person who decided to do that.

 

[Kkutlord]

@Simon_Jester: That would be Prophecy then, knowing what someone would do- whereas Determinism means an outside force made you steal the cookie, convincing you it was your own idea even though it wasn't.

Basically, if you Mind Control someone, they technically do things themselves- things you force them to do. Whereas without Mind Control, they actually have the choice to do something else entirely.

Determinism is something people only ever praise when things are going well for them- yet they'll look at other people and sneer at their "laziness", despite the fact Determinism means those 'lazy' people were forced to be like that by the same thing the 'better' people benefit from.

 

[King crimson]

@King crimson only D word I could find with any link to life is duration, just if you want to keep the trend going. Kind of makes sense, death is the end, duration is about continuance.

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I'll think it over some since Duration is a little misleading about how it would function.

wasn't there a time that Lucifer Morningstar burned Destiny's book to ash? I kind of thought that the action of doing that made free choice a thing (yes the ash of the book predicted lucifer would burn the book but after that there was no more book)

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Doesn't matter if the book exists or not. So long as the book accurately predicts everything it means that the universe is deterministic since everything is preordained. Also I have no recollection of this happening and my brief research into the topic shows no proof of this having been a thing.

Opposite of Death can be Delivery, if you squint pretty hard?

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Kind of like it, still has some problems though.

@King crimson: The idea of determinism is... Problematic, for many reasons. The notion that all suffering, all injustice, every monster of a person... The notion that was all forced by a higher power? Literally the kind of thought process that leads to people just... giving up and letting the world burn.

Personally, Determinism always seemed like a terrible belief to me. People don't bother to change because "that's just how it is", and seeing people even being shameless about being awful "because they had no choice"?

Determinism is just, a nightmarish thing: some higher force randomly decides if you get to be Good and Bad, and then punishes you for a decision it made against your will.

So, admittedly, all us writers are Lovecraftian nightmare-horrors because Determinism is literally what we're doing when developing stories. Which certainly explains a lot, if "higher powers" are actually just storywriters.

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So I've mentioned this when The Name of Love asked me to clarify what I meant by Determinism. Determinism does not require a higher power at all to function. All it means is that actions are predetermined. Everything being cause and effect can be argued to necessitate a predetermined universe since every action is determined by what came before it, making the universe essentially no freer than a string of dominos. There is only ever one way things could have played out. Determinism is hilariously enough what most scholars on the subject believe to be true (some people are compatibilists). The biggest objection to the theory is that people don't like that they aren't in control of their own destiny (which I find ridiculous. There is arguments derived from quantum mechanics that I think are more compelling and people should use more).

You've set up a strawman position of determinism to attack. The real opinion is far more nuanced than "higher power said it must be so". Determinism is not a position only held by people who use it as an excuse to hurt other people or be apathetic. In a determinist system (and people who believe in determinism) still accomplishes good, not by choice but rather by having the opportunity to do good put in place. You've oversimplified the issue and have missed several key definitions. Determinism does not mean a higher power set things into motion. This

@Simon_Jester: That would be Prophecy then, knowing what someone would do- whereas Determinism means an outside force made you steal the cookie, convincing you it was your own idea even though it wasn't.

Basically, if you Mind Control someone, they technically do things themselves- things you force them to do. Whereas without Mind Control, they actually have the choice to do something else entirely.

Determinism is something people only ever praise when things are going well for them- yet they'll look at other people and sneer at their "laziness", despite the fact Determinism means those 'lazy' people were forced to be like that by the same thing the 'better' people benefit from.

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is flat out wrong dismissive, disingenuous and all around bad arguing.

Here is the Merriam Webster definition of the word

Definition of DETERMINISM

a theory or doctrine that acts of the will, occurrences in nature, or social or psychological phenomena are causally determined by preceding events or natural laws; a belief in predestination; the quality or state of being determined… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

If you are going to argue something please have the decency to actually think about what the other position is rather than just assuming things and attacking strawmen (and insulting anyone who holds a particular belief system) and being deliberately contradictory in your own argument (If the universe is deterministic then laziness is not a factor at all. All people are equally morally righteous under most determinist systems this

Determinism is something people only ever praise when things are going well for them- yet they'll look at other people and sneer at their "laziness", despite the fact Determinism means those 'lazy' people were forced to be like that by the same thing the 'better' people benefit from.

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is bad faith arguing as it take someone who is clearly not actually of the position (if you think you are better than someone because you are not lazy then you are not a determinist since you are of equal moral culpability as them due to both of your positions having been granted through no real merit of your own) and presenting it as someone of that position).

I apologize for the rant but you have really riled me up since virtually everything you have said about determinism (something I had to write ten page papers on explaining the nuances of it) is flat out wrong or insulting.

Like it takes a lot to get me to get actually worked up about something but the amount of dismissive ignorance displayed on a subject which I am fairly passionate on is enough to do it. I'm fine with you disagreeing with me but actually talk about my position and provide an argument against it rather then use non-sequiturs, strawmen and insults to make your case. If you don't understand something it is fine to ask questions about it but don't just assume stuff is correct because you think it is so. A quick fact check is always helpful and will help avoid similar situations to this one. Sorry if I'm being a bit confrontational about this but I get very passionate about this subject.

 

[Kkutlord]

@King crimson: My definition of Determinism has been pretty well poisoned by my dad, so it always seemed pretty terrible and hypocritical from how he acts. I just... Really don't like the notion nobody is in control, so I lashed out. Sorry for being disruptive.

 

[King crimson]

@King crimson: My definition of Determinism has been pretty well poisoned by my dad, so it always seemed pretty terrible and hypocritical from how he acts. I just... Really don't like the notion nobody is in control, so I lashed out. Sorry for being disruptive.

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It's fine, everyone carries their own personal baggage into a conversation (I've definitely got my own hot button issues). I probably shouldn't have reacted as vehemently as I did (I've had poor experiences of people being really dismissive of a position I was taking and calling me stupid despite the fact they never actually addressed my issues).

Having an opinion is fine. I'd just prefer it if next time you present your argument a little more coherently. I'm sorry to hear that your dad has poisoned a whole school of thought for you and I do think that the position of not having any free will is something that can very easily lead to an existential crisis or nihilistic worldview. Your position is understandable.

Hopefully in the future both of us can get better at communicating stuff calmly and rationally (I don't think I handled it on my end as well as I could have and I am supposed to try and be as impartial as possible when dealing with people in the thread). Thank you for your response and it is fine to be a bit disruptive. So long as we are both able to step back for a second calm down and think things over I think we can call it a net win for all of us. At the very least we both came out of this with a better understanding of the others position so we achieved the main goal of a discussion (understanding the over persons viewpoint).

 

[Erumpet]

So I got a question regarding the endless I your universe. Consider that there a some endless that are younger then others what would be the process of a new endless being made? It seems like the younger endless are concepts related to sentient thought IE (Delirium) so maybe if a new state of thought was created a new endless would be made? I honestly don't know much about them so I a curious to hear you thoughts

 

[King crimson]

So I got a question regarding the endless I your universe. Consider that there a some endless that are younger then others what would be the process of a new endless being made? It seems like the younger endless are concepts related to sentient thought IE (Delirium) so maybe if a new state of thought was created a new endless would be made? I honestly don't know much about them so I a curious to hear you thoughts

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It is an interesting question. There have been a number of individuals who have attempted to pass themselves off as other Endless (Dread and Duplicity come to mind). However there has never been a confirmed 8th Endless. Furthermore while there are younger and older Endless they all are incredibly old and can trace their origins to the earliest points of the multiverse. I think I'd ultimately have to say that without an alteration of how the multiverse as a whole works there could not be another endless but if the multiverse did develop in such a way that allowed for other concepts then there could potentially be another Endless. I've never thought about this so it's certainly an interesting question. In quest you are better off trying to in some way bind or steal the mantle of an Endless than become an eighth one. Furthermore unless you repeatedly act to force it to go this way there will be no more than seven Endless.

On an unrelated note I now want to write or read a story about an eighth member of the Endless.

 

[The Name of Love]

I am referring to the philosophical school of thought that every action is in some way pre-ordained. Both the billiard ball and god's providence in Christianity would fall under the same thing. It's basically a fancy way of saying that the future is set in stone and cannot be changed. Under determinism (unless we get into the nuances of compatibilism) free will does not truly exist since the actions that you will take are predetermined. It doesn't matter if there is a grand plan to things or not just the fact that the path of every object is set at the start of the universe is what makes a universe deterministic. Does that clarify things?

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Fun fact: Medieval Christians weren't compatibilists, but they didn't think God's predestination contradicted free will either. God's causing events to occur in no way contradicts us really causing events to occur. This is a position called Divine Concurrentism, which is explained and defended in this (pretty good) paper here.

My question would be this: could it be that Destiny causes events to occur, even though it in no way contradicts our causing events to occur? If so, then the DC Universe wouldn't be "deterministic" as you've defined it.

 

[Erumpet]

I got one last question regarding the Endless. If someone were to write in destiny's book what would happen. would it be unwritten or would that become part of the tapestry of fate. or would the book already have what's is written in it since it predicted it would happen

 

[Kkutlord]

@King crimson: I'm not allowed to argue, because "that's bad". I... This has actually been really informative for me. Anyways, getting back to something on topic...

Do we have any prototype samples for Nanites, Tractor/Repulsor, Holograms, and/or Gravity Inducers? Just wanting to confirm if we have to do the Produce options first to use them at all.

Though the only thing really coming to me is showing the prototype Holograms to Oswald so he can plan around how to apply it for Lightyear. The other three would be pretty useless just with prototypes.

Hmm, on a similar line... Could we try Nth Metal experiments on the Intergang prison mooks? Though without really understanding it, all we could do is test how Nth Metal exposure and implants affect them.

 

[The Name of Love]

@King crimson: I'm not allowed to argue, because "that's bad". I... This has actually been really informative for me.

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Dude, you didn't know how to argue without seriously accusing the other person being lazy. Even if it's true that determinism is an excuse for laziness (a position that I'd be otherwise sympathetic to), you can't just insult people like that. Think before you type.

 

[Erumpet]

@King crimson: I'm not allowed to argue, because "that's bad". I... This has actually been really informative for me. Anyways, getting back to something on topic...

Do we have any prototype samples for Nanites, Tractor/Repulsor, Holograms, and/or Gravity Inducers? Just wanting to confirm if we have to do the Produce options first to use them at all.

Though the only thing really coming to me is showing the prototype Holograms to Oswald so he can plan around how to apply it for Lightyear. The other three would be pretty useless just with prototypes.

Hmm, on a similar line... Could we try Nth Metal experiments on the Intergang prison mooks? Though without really understanding it, all we could do is test how Nth Metal exposure and implants affect them.

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so I would not recommend using Nth metal for this. Nth metal is absurdly good and valuable. using the justice league cartoon as my guide lets talk have a little talk about Hawk girl and Solomon Grundy. in the episode wake the dead Grundy was amped up on Chaos magic to the point were he win a fight against superman. his power are so strong he actually absorbs strength from an attack by A.M.A.Z.O. (who in justice league essentially becomes one of the strongest entity's in the universe) the only thing that can put him down is hawk girls mace since it's anti magic property's cut of Grundy connection to chaos magic. my point from this ramble is that Nth metal is amazing when you want to stop magic users in their track's I don't want to waste on a bunch of random mooks when we have an option to study it normally.

 

[cokerpilot]

Awwww.... Here I was hoping Death is a tall bony dude who TALKS LIKE THIS with a scythe sharp enough to cut the fourth wall.

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Given that Pratchett and Gaiman literally wrote a book together the two are probably at least acquaintances.

 

[King crimson]

So good news and bad news.

Good news I caught a mistake in the update.
Bad news I have to scrap a lot of stuff and rewrite things.

I will not get it done today but I can get it up tomorrow. Thank you for being patient with me

Fun fact: Medieval Christians weren't compatibilists, but they didn't think God's predestination contradicted free will either. God's causing events to occur in no way contradicts us really causing events to occur. This is a position called Divine Concurrentism, which is explained and defended in this (pretty good) paper here.

My question would be this: could it be that Destiny causes events to occur, even though it in no way contradicts our causing events to occur? If so, then the DC Universe wouldn't be "deterministic" as you've defined it.

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I do not have a fast response to this as I am not super familiar with the theory and I don't think I could parse it quickly. I will get back to you with a definitive answer.

An initial sticking point that I can find would be to point out that a case can be made that Destiny doesn't cause things but then that just passes the buck to The Presence and doesn't actually solve the question.

From my very brief reading of the abstract it seems plausible but I have yet to see if the logic is sound all the way through. I personally will most likely disagree with one of the premises but if the logic is sound all the way through and the premises proposed do not contradict what is established as true in the DC universe then this position is just as valid as the deterministic position and there would be no way to distinguish which is true (which in this case would mean you can believe in whatever you want to and it is as valid as what I believe) and the universe is potentially not deterministic we just don't have a way to conclude which it is for sure.

I got one last question regarding the Endless. If someone were to write in destiny's book what would happen. would it be unwritten or would that become part of the tapestry of fate. or would the book already have what's is written in it since it predicted it would happen

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That is a fun question. The answer is that the book would already have what is written in it because it will have all actions written out on it including those that pertain to itself.

@King crimson: I'm not allowed to argue, because "that's bad". I... This has actually been really informative for me. Anyways, getting back to something on topic...

Do we have any prototype samples for Nanites, Tractor/Repulsor, Holograms, and/or Gravity Inducers? Just wanting to confirm if we have to do the Produce options first to use them at all.

Though the only thing really coming to me is showing the prototype Holograms to Oswald so he can plan around how to apply it for Lightyear. The other three would be pretty useless just with prototypes.

Hmm, on a similar line... Could we try Nth Metal experiments on the Intergang prison mooks? Though without really understanding it, all we could do is test how Nth Metal exposure and implants affect them.

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I don't know if you are being passive aggressive or not but I'll state it clearly. You can argue. I'm glad that you argue. Just think about how you argue and try to argue better. Your position is fine it's how you present your argument that makes it fall apart and become unintentionally insulting.

If you are saying that arguing "but that's bad" isn't a valid argument then I disagree. Arguing that something is bad because it negatively affects how things go or how it impacts your life is valid.

You have to produce the stuff before you can use them. Technically there is a single model created by Ivo but for game balance purposes I don't let you use them.

You can most certainly do Nth metal experiments on prison mooks. Feel free to indulge your inner mad scientist cause that subvote is very open (write ins are possible for it)

 

[Kkutlord]

Dude, you didn't know how to argue without seriously accusing the other person being lazy. Even if it's true that determinism is an excuse for laziness (a position that I'd be otherwise sympathetic to), you can't just insult people like that. Think before you type.

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I really don't know how to respond to that, other than that wasn't my intended point. I've dealt with people who use it as an excuse, and I've dealt with people who blatantly ignore how it would work so they can mock homeless people.

@King crimson: I just meant my family never lets me "argue" (disagree) or actually argue, so I don't really have any experience with it. Frankly though, "unintentionally offensive" is practically my superpower...

Anyways, regarding the mad science: We got Plant & Bone Serums (separately and combined), we got Cybernetics + Metallo more or less, we got Gingo Fruit and Nth Metal, we got magic which is a whole thing...

37 Test Subjects to do Meta-Human experiments on, and we could set a few aside for Pamela & Rebecca to experiment on. Homunculi are something I really love, and Rebecca does need more bio-experience to use her Healer magic.

 

[The Name of Love]

I do not have a fast response to this as I am not super familiar with the theory and I don't think I could parse it quickly. I will get back to you with a definitive answer.

An initial sticking point that I can find would be to point out that a case can be made that Destiny doesn't cause things but then that just passes the buck to The Presence and doesn't actually solve the question.

From my very brief reading of the abstract it seems plausible but I have yet to see if the logic is sound all the way through. I personally will most likely disagree with one of the premises but if the logic is sound all the way through and the premises proposed do not contradict what is established as true in the DC universe then this position is just as valid as the deterministic position and there would be no way to distinguish which is true (which in this case would mean you can believe in whatever you want to and it is as valid as what I believe) and the universe is potentially not deterministic we just don't have a way to conclude which it is for sure.

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That's fair enough. You can DM me if you want some sources on this topic.

I really don't know how to respond to that, other than that wasn't my intended point. I've dealt with people who use it as an excuse, and I've dealt with people who blatantly ignore how it would work so they can mock homeless people.

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Hey, I unintentionally offend people all the time too. But what you don't want to do is to avoid presuming the other person's intentions and whatnot unless you want to make that person's character the subject of the argument. Additionally, even if all determinists were motivated to believe in determinism because it'd be a convenient excuse to be lazy, that wouldn't disprove determinism at all.

 

[King crimson]

@King crimson: I just meant my family never lets me "argue" (disagree) or actually argue, so I don't really have any experience with it. Frankly though, "unintentionally offensive" is practically my superpower...

Anyways, regarding the mad science: We got Plant & Bone Serums (separately and combined), we got Cybernetics + Metallo more or less, we got Gingo Fruit and Nth Metal, we got magic which is a whole thing...

37 Test Subjects to do Meta-Human experiments on, and we could set a few aside for Pamela & Rebecca to experiment on. Homunculi are something I really love, and Rebecca does need more bio-experience to use her Healer magic.

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That's sad. Like really sad. I grew up on the other end of the spectrum (everyone argues an absolute ton and if you don't learn to do it fast the other person will walk all over you). I had similar issues with accidentally offending people so I can say that hopefully things will get better for you (they have for me). I actually really enjoy having an argument and the fact that you want to ask questions.

All of that is on the table for you. You've got a good testing size for a bunch of experiments and while there are some catches this is a chance to freely indulge your inner mad scientist. You have even more options to test on these individuals than what you have listed. I know you have been wanting to see how things react and I tried to make this as free as I could with how many options there are available (before correcting mistakes there was about 16 different options for this not counting overlap which would make it exponentially higher)

 

[Kkutlord]

@The Name of Love: That's not what I was saying... My core point was basically "everything being preordained is an existential and ethical nightmare", whereas I'm particularly annoyed by those using it as an excuse to exert their superiority. My beef is ultimately with the Christian version, and I don't need it repeatedly told how I was wrong.

@King crimson: I would of said Beowulf Sword testing, but I filed it under "general magic stuff". Overall I'm not really sure what else there is to do. Like... Guess we could let Ives sacrifice a few for the Amazo Project? Ooh...

We turn them into living computers, like less sympathetic versions of those Computierized Augments from Deus Ex Human Revolution. Though what would we do with people computers...

Ah, we could try the Captain Atom project on them, though can we even turn them into energy bombs? Oh, right, we should check them for anyone compatible with Plant & Bone & Gingo powers. Very least Bone + Gingo, so we can experiment with a Meta-Human treatment for Marie.

 

[King crimson]

@King crimson: I would of said Beowulf Sword testing, but I filed it under "general magic stuff". Overall I'm not really sure what else there is to do. Like... Guess we could let Ives sacrifice a few for the Amazo Project? Ooh...

We turn them into living computers, like less sympathetic versions of those Computierized Augments from Deus Ex Human Revolution. Though what would we do with people computers...

Ah, we could try the Captain Atom project on them, though can we even turn them into energy bombs? Oh, right, we should check them for anyone compatible with Plant & Bone & Gingo powers. Very least Bone + Gingo, so we can experiment with a Meta-Human treatment for Marie.

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The Sword of Beowulf could be tested on them assuming you are using it to kill them not have them draw it.

You could harvest their parts and then do something with that.

Atom Project is a thing. Johnny Sorrow's subspace device is a thing. Jinx can test her magic freely, you can acquire various chemicals and mess around with them you can attempt to expose them to Kryptonite and see if it gives them cancer. You can check for compatibility with various treatments you have. You can have them test what happens when an exosuit fails. You can see what happens when you put an anti-bad intent ward inside someone with bad intent. There is a lot you can do.

And if you aren't sure you can always try and store them for use later.

When I said you get to indulge your mad scientist I meant it. If you don't like the options given you can try and write in another one. There will be a lot to choose from.

 

[Erumpet]

The Sword of Beowulf could be tested on them assuming you are using it to kill them not have them draw it.

You could harvest their parts and then do something with that.

Atom Project is a thing. Johnny Sorrow's subspace device is a thing. Jinx can test her magic freely, you can acquire various chemicals and mess around with them you can attempt to expose them to Kryptonite and see if it gives them cancer. You can check for compatibility with various treatments you have. You can have them test what happens when an exosuit fails. You can see what happens when you put an anti-bad intent ward inside someone with bad intent. There is a lot you can do.

And if you aren't sure you can always try and store them for use later.

When I said you get to indulge your mad scientist I meant it. If you don't like the options given you can try and write in another one. There will be a lot to choose from.

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ahh the joys of exploring science without the limits of morality I am getting excited just thinking about it.

 

[Negation]

I'd like to push that as a goal for 10+ years down the line. "President Luthor" is an interesting change of pace, but we've got a LOT of building to do. And being the president of the United States is in some ways more limiting for a man like Lex than merely being a very influential private figure, because it means you're under a lot more scrutiny and there are a lot more demands on your time.

Like, when would President Luthor EVER get time to do independent research? Ever?

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Personally, I'm against Lex ever taking political office. There's no need for it when we can simply buy/fund all the political candidates running for Congress.

It's also more efficient to have multiple politicians in our pocket in existing political parties instead of creating our own so various legislative agendas that we push for can be "bipartisan", look good for PR and piss off Lois Lane.

 

[Scaryghosts]

I am the only one who think we should use one action on our cell phone upgrading next update? It's been a bit since we do that and whilst not the main thing we are now doing now it;s still a good source of income we get.

 

[FeepingCreature]

Destiny has individuals who he lets choose between some branching paths, Death is present at every birth and every death, Dream's powers can affect reality, Destruction likes to build things etc.. As such my stance is that their sphere of influence coincides over both the their realm and its opposite. While the aspect they currently manifest as leans them one way, they can switch around and alter what they are.

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Small criticism: this paragraph would have been a really good place to use the word "liminal"

(liminal, adj.: occupying a position at, or on both sides of, a boundary or threshold)

It's just a really good word.

 

[Negation]

I am the only one who think we should use one action on our cell phone upgrading next update? It's been a bit since we do that and whilst not the main thing we are now doing now it;s still a good source of income we get.

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Well, gotta remain Cellphone King. It is good for PR and opens doors.

 

[Simon_Jester]

It is an interesting question. There have been a number of individuals who have attempted to pass themselves off as other Endless (Dread and Duplicity come to mind).

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Given the ruthlessness with which cosmic law and the natural order of things are enforced in Sandman, attempting to pass oneself off as one of the Endless strikes me as an extremely reckless course of action.

In quest you are better off trying to in some way bind or steal the mantle of an Endless than become an eighth one. Furthermore unless you repeatedly act to force it to go this way there will be no more than seven Endless.

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Of course, attempts at stealing the mantle of the Endless are a bit like attempts to ascend to deification; becoming the personification of a universal abstract concept means ceasing to be that which you were before. Look at what happened to Daniel Hall- Daniel-as-Dream has become, well, Dream.

And attempts to bind the Endless, well, uh, we know what happened to the last person to try that and it wasn't pretty.

Ah, we could try the Captain Atom project on them, though can we even turn them into energy bombs?

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I would warn you that we should probably NOT take people who are part of an organization that hates us, and whom we have kidnapped, and give them powers that we have little or no hope of restraining. Turning an enemy into another Captain Atom means having a very very strong enemy, with a history of being a criminal, in the heart of our places of power.

All in all, it sounds like a good way to get stuffed into a refrigerator.

Now, if you're planning in advance to explode the prisoners, by all means go ahead... except that there is considerable risk of the procedure not working.

...

Similarly, a sword that, once drawn, makes it impossible to defeat the wielder in battle sounds like a very bad thing to put in the hand of a man who hates us and wants us to fail.

Oh, right, we should check them for anyone compatible with Plant & Bone & Gingo powers. Very least Bone + Gingo, so we can experiment with a Meta-Human treatment for Marie.

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I'm not sure that combination will be enough. Remember that bone growth only grows bone, and Gingo fruit stretching only lets you rearrange the mass you already have. To physically grow up, Marie is going to need a fully general growth formula, one that causes muscle and organ tissue to grow too.

I am the only one who think we should use one action on our cell phone upgrading next update? It's been a bit since we do that and whilst not the main thing we are now doing now it;s still a good source of income we get.

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I don't disagree, but I think I want to put Lex on a large A.M.A.Z.O. collaboration next turn. Maybe the turn after that?