- Location
- Fabulously Rainbow Ireland
Not me, when I found out they were actually autonomous floating blades I figured they were just regular sized ones.
Forge of Destiny(Xianxia Quest)
- Thread starter yrsillar
- Start date
- Original Fantasy
- Location
- United States of America
I don't think Ling Qi is small. She's pretty tall and pretty gangly right now.
I can, however, agree that we have other priorities right now than figuring out a good melee weapon, so I think that unarmed combat could be a stop gap if we need it. But once we get into the inner disciples, I would like to pursue other options rather than unarmed.
TheLastOne
Person of impeccable tastes (for destruction)
They are. That doesn't mean that they can't also be worlds. Sometimes via-spacial artifact. Sometimes because they can just resize. Sometimes because the protagonist has an art that lets them grow to the size of a planet, so they need planet sized blades.
edit: though even the ones that stay 'normal' sized are sometimes ridden. You just balance on the flat side of a thin blade.
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You know, if we had a thunder art, perhaps some of the passives from that would improve Sound based attacks, meaning that we could get both an attack art and something that supplements our current build with FVM. It would be more improving our current style and adding to it, than making a radical departure.
I counter with riding atop a Turtle!Dragon as he/she swims through the sky, or earth. Well for the latter it would probably be more riding in his/her mouth.So I just found out certain depictions of Flying Swords have them as giant ass things you can surf on ala the Huckebein MK-III/Exbein Boxer
Don't tell me you don't think surfing into battle on a giant floating sword isn't the coolest thing ever!
FVM will be getting a sound based attack either at the next upgrade, or the one after that. Anyways it uses thunder as the element iirc.
Arkeus
Crazy cat guy
- Location
- France
Not this upgrade, as it will take a Thunder meridian, and this upgrade doesn't need one. I think the one after. Possibly a heart thunder, but also possibly arms.
Lets skip the middle man and forget the bow. After all we know what the true weapon is, the arrow. I say we give the finger to team bow and start team arrow.
Or at least flying daggers. (like regular throwing knives but magical)
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TheLastOne
Person of impeccable tastes (for destruction)
Very little. The last several fights have had it where, if we had ever been cornered, we would be unable to hurt our enemies through their passive armor. That's not talking about them defending with Qi like we can - our attacks would simply fizzle on their defenses without them doing anything.
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- Location
- scrabbling
you fool you'll stir that-which-can-not-be-mentioned back up
overmind
Ruler of the Swarm
...I'm guessng that this argument has been already brought up. A lot.
Sorry.
Arkeus
Crazy cat guy
- Location
- France
In the sense that our throwing dagger mastery still works in close quarter, sort of. We just lose a lot of dice as all our arts are for range, which also includes our damage enhancer technique.
- Location
- United States of America
It is ok. It is an argument that pops up every 100 or so pages and continues for a while before the thread gets distracted by the next update and shiny. We have been able to win every fight we have been a part of, but none of those fights were won because we actually did a good amount of damage to the opposing party. We wore them out with qi, we had strong allies, or we had strong allies and wore them out with qi. There was one fight in Zhou's test where we were able to body check a guy into the well, but the fall did most of that damage rather than us.
overmind
Ruler of the Swarm
don't know. mean, shouldn't you at least have some technique or ability to fight in close quarters? Just in case? So far all fights that you've had you nearly lost because of it.
- Location
- United States of America
It is highly debatable if any of those fights would have had us benefit from a close combat art. The art may have helped, but the art may not have helped. However, looking forward, we will need a close combat art in order to deal damage because that avenue is a glaring weakness in our fighting kit. Which is why the general consensus right now is to work towards it for week 18. I'm not seeing anything on the horizon that we need to fight somebody or other spirit animals and so we should be safe until then. Once week 18 hits, we should be able to pick up a combat art.
TheLastOne
Person of impeccable tastes (for destruction)
I've been pretty sure for a while that yrsillar has been actively merciful in several of our fights, because if they extended any longer we would have suddenly lost, or if they had rolled slightly better on one attack we would have lost, and that would turn into a big derail. I'm not sure if that will stay policy, in which case it doesn't matter what we get, but I'm not willing to depend on it forever in case it's a limited mercy.
Other people think we're doing awesome because we made all the right choices and our build is perfect.
It's gotten a bit bitter at this point.
Arkeus
Crazy cat guy
- Location
- France
So far we have consistently rolled poorly on fights with opponents rolling really well, and we never had any issues with close quarters at all. Not to say we never will, but an actual defensive art is higher priority than one that help fight in close quarter, simply because the latter is simply almost never useful, while the former is.
TheLastOne
Person of impeccable tastes (for destruction)
That's a mix of misleading and wrong. We had more dice then the worm and won both defensive clashes with it, but not by a lot. One hit from that and our evation would have dropped and we would have been forced into close combat. So misleading, because the dice swing, and a slightly bigger swing would have brought ruin.
Our rolls in thunderdome were were mixed with both slightly better and slightly worse then average rolls on the first round... but the second Hong Lin rolled one success on nine dice. The attack was basically a crit fail, and we only had ten dice of defense against that attack - most of our boosters and penalties didn't work. If she had rolled one more success then us the attack would have hit and taken us out of the fight.
yrsillar named the fight we had with Huang Da lucky breaks. First round was perfectly average with Huang Da hitting us with poison, but then the rolls broke in our favor in an even clash, and our allies rolled well. We don't know how well since we can't see there rolls, but it was confirmed that they did have lucky rolls.
So the only time we rolled 'poorly' was against someone we outweighed by 7 dice, and that's more a wake up call about how even big dice advantages don't mean you win every exchange. Every other fight has had luck break in our favor, and more then a little.
In a situation where a peer rolled as well against us as the worm did, rather then someone much weaker then us... Well there's a reason we're getting up in arms about a purely evasive strategy.
Arkeus
Crazy cat guy
- Location
- France
Oh hey, let's check the veracity of your claims!
Slightly above average rolls for Ling Qi, 5 success instead of 3 for corpse.
We had 17 dice against 10, so not "slightly more", the worm rolled really well (average is 4, it rolled 7), but we also rolled quite well... except that if we had rolled 7 success it would still have been enough, and 7 success is average.
Again, we rolled slightly better than average, worm rolled much better than average.
Now, let's see the thunderdome fights:
We had 50% more dice than opponent, and we barely touched her.
Better dice than opponent, and she won the clash.
Better dice than opponent, and we vastly won the clash... except there is no difference whatsoever between having the same numbers of success as opponent or vastly better.
Slightly less dice than opponent, we lost significantly.
We didn't get their rolls there... but they had to get 4/5 success with their perception, and perception is wit+composure. Zhu twins had four perception dice in low light, so 5. Those enemies must have rolled incredibly well, once again. And we had slightly better than average roll.
50% more dice than enemy, we didn't take any damage, we rolled well on second one but average rolls would have done the same, and they rolled average for once.
Both rolledequally badly.
We had lesser than average rolls, they had the same.
So let's see the Huang Da actual fight:
He rolled much better than average, we rolled a bit above average
The opposite happened, we rolled much, much better than average, he rolled average.
So yeah, I call bulshit. Thunderdome fight and worm fight had us being incredibly unlucky and coming out ahead. We are also getting a defensive art this turn. Not only that, but we had the best strategy in either of those fights, while we would have done significantly worse had we fought against hong lin (instead of helping Gu Xiulan taking care of the twins) and so on.
Now, does this mean it will always work? Of course not. But the lesson here is not "we were lucky it went well", the lesson is "even with bad luck it went well, and we can stand to invest more in SCS/AMA for more defense". And maybe a pure stealth art. See what could have went better in our fights and so on, not pretending that planning poorly the fight would have made it better.
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- Location
- United States of America
Guys, this is not the time to get into an argument about this. Take a breath and move on. My plan is to get a close combat art by week 18, so unless a lot of people don't want combat arts by week 18 then the point is moot.
DarkLight140
Credit to Team
- Location
- Lost in my thoughts
Very well, let's get into an argument about something else slightly less pointlessly nitpicky.
How does your desire with a close combat art mesh with others' expressed desires for a bow and arts which can be used with it, as primary damage dealer? Do you believe that bow-compatible damage arts aren't a priority, that we should be looking for something which works with both close and ranged combat, that we should be getting two separate arts, one for melee and one for ranged? Something else?
- Location
- Cyberspace
For myself, I appreciate the versatility of knives. They're great to get up to 'competent' with a single thing that can offer both melee and ranged options. I'm leaning towards Ling Qi picking up a melee weapon though - with the knives she's got enough to cover her while she learns the new weapon, and a short sword should also be a fairly light and fast weapon.
Not enthused about a bow, on the other hand. It's unwieldy, takes two hands, and its effective range is beyond where I'd expect most fights to take place. It's not very concealable and if it offers more damage cap, Ling Qi is unlikely to be able to take advantage of that for some time.
I'd prefer a melee weapon mixed with sudden knives from the sleeve for surprise, and music accompany.
Actually, thinking of that - consider a talisman flute that gives cost discounts and bonuses... that's used to start Forgotten Vale Melody techniques. Once they're in the air, the flute gets put away and a sound-controlling art continues the music while Ling Qi takes out another weapon.
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TheLastOne
Person of impeccable tastes (for destruction)
For people who don't want to dig through spoiler boxes, Thunderdome had two rounds.
Round one
| Character | Ling Qi | Zhu Qing |
| Average roll | 7 | 4.5 |
| Actual roll | 6 | 5 |
| Luck shift | -1 | +.5 |
| Character | Ling Qi | Hong Lin |
| Average roll | 5 | 4.5 |
| Actual roll | 5 | 7 |
| Luck shift | 2 |
Second round
| Character | Ling Qi | Hong Lin |
| Average roll | 5 | 4.5 |
| Actual roll | 6 | 1 |
| Luck shift | 1 | -3.5 |
| Character | Ling Qi | Hong Lin |
| Average roll | 5.5 | 6.5 |
| Actual roll | 6 | 8 |
| Luck shift | .5 | 1.5 |
So noise, bad for them, noise.
The worm is the first fight where we could say we had 'lucky' opponents.
I'm not sure what you're trying to say with the worm? You cut out the part of my post where I pointed out it almost hit us even though we had a seven dice advantage. That's what a properly 'lucky' or 'unlucky' roll looks like, and is the only fight where you can actually say we weren't within standard deviations. And if it was a peer that matched our dicepool and it got as lucky with a binding attack, the fight would be over.