Varder
Tired Cultist
- Location
- Hell
SSSSSSS is definetely a SSSSSnake level. Meizhen approves.
Forge of Destiny(Xianxia Quest)
- Thread starter yrsillar
- Start date
- Original Fantasy
SSSSSSS is definetely a SSSSSnake level. Meizhen approves.
Our stats do not get weaker when we break through. They stay the same. The scale is just being reinterpreted to be more useful at describing our progression and the power levels we can about. Otherwise we'd rapidly end up having piles of SS and SSS rank things, and eventually blow out the end of the scale.
Enemies will be described relative to us, using our scale. They aren't going to be described using an alternative "yellow scale" or something and then awkwardly translated. Xiulan has ~the same Dex as us. This isn't going to change when she gets Bronze. She just won't be running into physical cultivation penalties against us anymore.
This does mean that the scale doesn't have good resolution for differentiating skills below 4 dots. By and large, however, from the green perspective such distinctions aren't particularly important.
Enemies will be described relative to us, using our scale. They aren't going to be described using an alternative "yellow scale" or something and then awkwardly translated. Xiulan has ~the same Dex as us. This isn't going to change when she gets Bronze. She just won't be running into physical cultivation penalties against us anymore.
This does mean that the scale doesn't have good resolution for differentiating skills below 4 dots. By and large, however, from the green perspective such distinctions aren't particularly important.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
We can't land a solid hit with only music and we'd die of old age before getting it skilled up enough. If you want to be ambitious, think about turning music into derived skills.
Black Noise
Curious
- Location
- About 1AU from Sol
If stats don't get weaker as one increases in realm then low resolution at the low end isn't the only problem. This basically becomes a "relative to 3d realm" scale, and it should be describing the entirety of 3d realm, something that even a rising talent like Ling Qi can only cross in a matter of 4-5 years.
With S as the "natural" cap (and does this mean S0 or S59?), Early and Appraisal Green cultivators with A rank abilities don't make sense, let alone S. Even B and C seem like a stretch since they're supposedly "above/average foot a cultivator of this realm". This gets even more ridiculous with Yellow cultivators that have A-rank abilities as is their natural cap, with the implication that they fully retain it as they go up in realm.
Basically a system like that leaves us with poor resolution below the C level and very little room to meaningfully grow in the upcoming 4-5 years, growth that some like the monsters seem to have already completed.
Varder
Tired Cultist
- Location
- Hell
Why? We managed before - in fight with Ji Rong, for example. And Chu Song as well.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
No, we didn't, we used other stats as well, like Wits, Presence, and Initiative. I'm saying literally only the music skill stat, not music arts.
Keep in mind the context of my post is about defeating Cai Shenhua.
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The same before the realm comparison bonus, or after? Because a bunch of the discussion on the previous page has assumed that the stats stay the same after the realm comparison bonus.
Then numeric bonuses don't actually translate right.
If we are at Green and have A rank in a skill, we need a +50 bonus to rank up by one. If we move to Cyan without getting batter at the skill, it goes down to B rank, and we only need a bonus +40 to grant an extra level. If an opponent has A rank at Green before moving to Cyan, in terms of us their skill remains at A rank, which implies they would need +50, which doesn't match the behavior of our own skills.
Different mechanics for PCs and NPCs is not cool.
Black Noise
Curious
- Location
- About 1AU from Sol
Basically what I'm saying is that @yrsillar (with math friends) has to decide what it's about: Either it describes people relative to the entirety of 3d realm (in which case LQ, the monsters and basically everyone we know need to be nerfed, and the natural cap for Yellow should be like B), or it's a character-agnostic description of relative strengths and weaknesses, in which case Yellow or Cyan stat sheets with C~A skills totally make sense but there need to be explicit transition rules for going up a Realm.
Aside from that decision I feel that the overcompressed nature of the scale as it stands is a serious issue that needs to be looked at. Even skills at the D-C range have at most 4 steps to rise in the upcoming 4ish years. There's just not a lot of room to grow directly, unless the intention is that everyone will work on getting their attributes and skills split up and focused, which has its own issues.
Aside from that decision I feel that the overcompressed nature of the scale as it stands is a serious issue that needs to be looked at. Even skills at the D-C range have at most 4 steps to rise in the upcoming 4ish years. There's just not a lot of room to grow directly, unless the intention is that everyone will work on getting their attributes and skills split up and focused, which has its own issues.
Arkeus
Crazy cat guy
- Location
- France
Xiulan literally cannot have the same dex we have unless her tribulation gave her a flat +1 dex, simply because yellow dex is capped at 6, and we have 7 dex right now... and you need both green/bronze in order to increase your stats beyond yellow caps.
So if she has S dex, it's S dex for a yellow (E.G, the old 6 dot).
As @yrsillar has already noted our stats are being adjusted down. Our highest stat (dex) is indeed now B. I estimate that over the next two years we might be able to achieve S dex (mostly because we use it all the time), while our next best stats will probably be around B. So progression is fine.
And yes. The scale is a green scale. If we get to cyan it will be adjusted to work with the new realm. I would assume that this would also entail shifting point values since otherwise we'd get weird jumps in the relative importance of our passives. Ultimately though those details aren't really important right now.
And yes. The scale is a green scale. If we get to cyan it will be adjusted to work with the new realm. I would assume that this would also entail shifting point values since otherwise we'd get weird jumps in the relative importance of our passives. Ultimately though those details aren't really important right now.
Can we get a source for this, please?
- Location
- Required Location
Do we have our new charsheet? I thought we would not have a static stat sheet at all because of our abilities are now relative to the environment we act in or the opposition we face.
Im glad though. I like seeing numbers go so a stat sheet with progressive advancement is good news for me.
Im glad though. I like seeing numbers go so a stat sheet with progressive advancement is good news for me.
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DeAnno
Sometimes words have two meanings
If the scale is overall a Green scale relative only to Ling Qi's realm, then ranking up and down people in other realms seems sort of arbitrarily confusing.
Like, if Fan Yu's Strength displays as D, because it's D relative to Green, then if it's "relative to Green" already it seems arbitrary this is before the rank down, after which he would effectively be making E Strength attacks against Green characters, despite the stated purpose of the way his sheet is displayed as being "relative to Green". It seems unnecessarily convoluted to see things "relative to Ling Qi" if those relative stats have to be adjusted further afterwards anyway.
The rank up/rank down mechanic seemed like it was an elegant cancellation of people's character sheets being relative to their own realms before. In that version, Fan Yu's Strength would display as C (because it's relative to Yellow), and his attacks against Greens would be at strength D.
Like, if Fan Yu's Strength displays as D, because it's D relative to Green, then if it's "relative to Green" already it seems arbitrary this is before the rank down, after which he would effectively be making E Strength attacks against Green characters, despite the stated purpose of the way his sheet is displayed as being "relative to Green". It seems unnecessarily convoluted to see things "relative to Ling Qi" if those relative stats have to be adjusted further afterwards anyway.
The rank up/rank down mechanic seemed like it was an elegant cancellation of people's character sheets being relative to their own realms before. In that version, Fan Yu's Strength would display as C (because it's relative to Yellow), and his attacks against Greens would be at strength D.
The scale is meant to rank people relative to Ling Qi's position. If I show you a yellow cultivators statblock, it is already going to have the cultivation penalty figured in. If I show you a cyan's their bonus will already be figured in. If I showed you an elder or Shenhua, it'd just be a solid chunk of UUU, even for their weakest skills and attributes, because they're so far above you you can't even perceive the variations in their ability.
DeAnno
Sometimes words have two meanings
Just to clarify, this includes both realm and level bonuses? So if we saw this statblock:
What we would see would be SS20 printed directly in the statblock? (And we could only determine the cultivator started at A rank hit from backwards calculation)
I'm still not clear on the behavior-on-levelup.
If Han Jian currently has a B0 in composure and he ranked up to Green, what would his composure be then? B10?
If Han Jian currently has a B0 in composure and he ranked up to Green, what would his composure be then? B10?
DeAnno
Sometimes words have two meanings
As I understand it, were seeing relative to LQ. So in CL6 his B0 is the result of a Realm penalty and then a -10 penalty, which means he started at (B0+10 = B10; B10 + 1 Realm = A12.) Since his underlying stats wouldn't change, newly CL7 Han Jian would now display as A12, with no cultivation penalty relative to us anymore.
Similarly, when we transition from CL7 to CL8, everyone else's character sheets will appear to drop by 10, and ours won't change. (This makes me think whenever a sheet is made LQ's current cultivation should be displayed on it, just for the purposes of good record keeping and accounting)
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- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Don't you lose a rank when you gain a realm as your stats are adjusted to your new cap and your peers?
My understanding is that it depends on what you're talking about. If we were using an art that forced a Composure test on him right now his composure would be D right now due to penalties. Getting to to green would remove those penalties and allow him to be at B.
Outside that though, if he was using composure for idk spiritual armor, and so his armor was something like Composure B + Resilience C = C10 then the armor rank that yrsillar would tell us would be E5. Getting up to green would put it at C10.
Cultivation penalties apply to the attribute or derived attribute that is being used to clash. You aren't adjusting every individual stat/skill in a derived attribute.
DeAnno
Sometimes words have two meanings
That only applies to us, since the character sheets of everyone are relative to Ling Qi. When we gain a realm, we will see all our stats drop a rank, but everyone else's stats will appear to drop by two ranks plus 10, since we are a rank weaker relative to our new realm, but they are now a rank weaker plus 10 relative to us.
Yrsillar just said that the character sheet would hold the values we compared to, so this is not correct AFAIK.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Could you cite that please?
Stats for the purposes of passing forced stat tests and stats for the purposes of calculating derived atributes are kind of different things.