Forge of Destiny(Xianxia Quest)

Umm....

I'm not sure what subtleties you think are being communicated by saying "I'm a greedy selfish girl." That... is not very subtle.

Subtleties of what is implied, not just said. It implies Ling Qi has a low opinion of herself, but is aware of it and wants to be better. It implies she considers these traits defining aspects of her. It implies she's willing to be scarily honest to a White cultivator.
 
Good gods, what in the hell could possibly motivate someone to tell your absolute superior, one who likely holds power over your life and death and is most probably talking to you for the express purpose of determining your suitability as an employee/minion in the future, essentially giving you a job interview, that you are selfish and greedy!?!

Character establishing moment or not, my first impression as someone who has taken lessons on this sort of thing (Unless Yrs has specifically indicated there will be few consequences to this vote in terms of future benefits and trust between character) is that this is best comparable to
[] Kill yourself your career
-[] By stabbing yourself it through the heart


[X] Ling Qi follows Cai Renxiang because
-[X] Absolute material advantage granting growth, security, influence, etc (up to yrs how much to elaborate on this)
--[X] Integrity of Renxiang's character meaning she can be trusted to look after her minions
---[X] Interest in being a better person and seeing if Renxiang's ideal world is even possible to build in real life.
 
Good gods, what in the hell could possibly motivate someone to tell your absolute superior, one who likely holds power over your life and death and is most probably talking to you for the express purpose of determining your suitability as an employee/minion in the future, essentially giving you a job interview, that you are selfish and greedy!?!

Because CRX is going to get remplaced and I don't want to follow her into death.

Convincing Cai mom that we are not scuicidally loyal to CRX is a good thing. It help us survive her fall.
 
essentially giving you a job interview, that you are selfish and greedy!?!

You're trying to project this into the modern world, where people tell pretty lies all the time as a matter of course. Stop, because it isn't. This isn't really a political system analogous to anything we've seen on Earth. This is basically Parahuman Feudalism.

What would Ling Qi be saying with that beyond the obvious? First, she's saying she's honest, brutally so, and that unlike a simpering weakling she isn't going to lie to try to avoid painful truths. Second, she's saying that her selfish greedy instincts have signaled to her that CRX is the right horse to back. She's saying she has confidence in Shenua's daughter and Shenua herself to be winners, and that she wants to be a winner too. Third, with her tone, she's signaling that she's a little regretful of this fact, and that there is a sort of void in her Darkness that Cai Renxiang's fervor might eventually fill.

Cai Shenua is not some CEO's PR rep. She might as well be a god in terms of personal power, and this is answering the question she asked with useful information, not a sanitized platitude.
 
You're trying to project this into the modern world, where people tell pretty lies all the time as a matter of course. Stop, because it isn't. This isn't really a political system analogous to anything we've seen on Earth. This is basically Parahuman Feudalism.
And the only reason it's not certainly an even worse decision here is because Senhua is kinda weird and maybe she likes us taking a chance. There's no reason for us to assume that's the case though, apart from it being a trope. In no situation is it good to emphasize your flaws to your boss, and this is probably the worst way to get across what this vote is trying to. Look at how Gan answered. Honesty, yes, but also extremely formally, only letting through a slight amount of his boisterousness. There's a difference between honesty and irreverence, and this crosses that line.
 
I am aware that many are not yet convinced that CRX is going to die so I am going to quote the update.

"Lady Cai Renxiang is the woman who will bring about the world I aspire too," Gan Guangli's booming voice was somber and serious for once, all bombastic affectation gone. "For that goal, I will fight for her until my body and spirit lie broken," well, maybe not all of it.

The Duchess was silent for a moment, and Gan Guangli remained silent, his gaze steadfastly fixed on a point somewhere behind the power standing before him, but eventually, the Duchess gave a shallow nod of acknowledgement. "I see, do try not break too quickly then," she replied almost flippantly.

Here Cai mom say explicitely that GG is going to die fighting for her daughter.

You can add to this that Cai mom waited 200 years before getting a child. So if she has a second one it's for a purpose. That purpose is not to help CRX, otherwise they would be closer in age. Neither it is to provide competition for the very same reason.

So given how CRX was not alerted of it, it's highly likely that sister is her remplacement.

Given all this, I really don't want to tell anything that would lead toward us getting erased alongside CRX and GG, when she inevitably get remplaced.
 
Subtleties of what is implied, not just said. It implies Ling Qi has a low opinion of herself, but is aware of it and wants to be better. It implies she considers these traits defining aspects of her. It implies she's willing to be scarily honest to a White cultivator.
Yes things are being implied. Are they subtle? About as subtle as a sledgehammer to the face.
 
IDK how much of a jerk Senghua is...
But erasing us just because we backed someone who she found 'unworthy'...Well.
It seems like a solid way to basically spook everyone around her into getting their stabbing knives out/pointed in her direction-ESPECIALLY if she grooms her replacement to be like her and doesn't stick around after becoming an Ancestor-that sort of thing says 'no I can't be trusted because I'm even stab happier then the Bai clan.' Who I might add might also be pissed, because they 'gave' her a promising young talent in the form of Ling Qi as well as had Meizhen seconded to the Cai for maintaining connections with Ling Qi...And then made a fool of. At the very least Meizhen would be pissed off which could sour that relationship. And I could see the Bai feeling like 'well you dis one Bai you dis ALL the Bai!'...
I feel like it'd be even more naked 'I'm doing this because I can' then socially acceptable to do something like that. Especially since she could simply pawn us off to the next girl in line.
...
It also could simply be an Insurance thing- if CRX should fail there's something to continue the line.
 
@archangis As I mentioned in a previous post, pretty sure Shenhua is making a second child now mainly because her first child is sufficiently developed that CRX can now be left to her own devices instead of needing constant fine tuning.

Renxiang has been away from her mother for less than a year. That's not enough time to be considered a total failure that needs to be replaced. Especially since she's been doing pretty well. This reads to me more like as soon as Renxiang could be trusted to stay her mother's doll without direct supervision (shown by her being allowed to go to the sect), Shenhua immediately started making arrangements for a second child because backups are always good, and now she can devote the majority of her attention to the second child to make sure it comes out just as perfectly as the first.
 
Man, this thread moves fast. Came up with a response before the moratorium ended, went to sleep, went to work, ten pages. Might be a little too late to sway the populace, but what the hell.

[X] "I learned early on that you can't do much more than simply survive if you live alone. I don't believe I'll see the world she envisions come to pass, but I'd like it to, and your daughter has offered to help protect the people I care about if I lend her a hand. I trust that she means what she says on both accounts, and so long as that stays true, she'll have my loyalty."
 
I'll be responding to the two people who have responded to me thus far, then disappearing into an abyss with no internet for some time. I hope this post covers most of what message I intend to convey, but will not be getting back to any responses swiftly.

Because CRX is going to get remplaced and I don't want to follow her into death.

Convincing Cai mom that we are not scuicidally loyal to CRX is a good thing. It help us survive her fall.

It is equally possible that it'll convince her we aren't worth salvaging. Revealing personal insecurities in the form of bad character traits does not lead to the impression that one is a worthwhile asset to cultivate in the future. If you want to convey the message that this was our best option terms of opportunity and material wealth, I would suggest something that directly says so rather than halfheartedly implying it in the hopes of a favourable interpretation by all parties involved. Even so, indicating we are not fully loyal to CRX, our immediate superior who also has the ability to dismiss us from her service, while standing next to her may not be wise.

You're trying to project this into the modern world, where people tell pretty lies all the time as a matter of course. Stop, because it isn't. This isn't really a political system analogous to anything we've seen on Earth. This is basically Parahuman Feudalism.

What would Ling Qi be saying with that beyond the obvious? First, she's saying she's honest, brutally so, and that unlike a simpering weakling she isn't going to lie to try to avoid painful truths. Second, she's saying that her selfish greedy instincts have signaled to her that CRX is the right horse to back. She's saying she has confidence in Shenua's daughter and Shenua herself to be winners, and that she wants to be a winner too. Third, with her tone, she's signaling that she's a little regretful of this fact, and that there is a sort of void in her Darkness that Cai Renxiang's fervor might eventually fill.

Cai Shenua is not some CEO's PR rep. She might as well be a god in terms of personal power, and this is answering the question she asked with useful information, not a sanitized platitude.

What could possibly make you believe people haven't told 'pretty lies' for all of human history? If anything, it could be just as bad if not worse. Roman politicians lived and died on public opinion, and the whole principle of 'bread and circuses' arose from their need to keep people appeased. The art of philosophy itself arose as a movement after the decline of Greek Sophists, people who literally made a living by making things up about various topics and pretending to be educated. Plato wrote about only allowing trained people to vote(generally considered a bad idea in modern times due to potential corruption) because he thought that Athenian governance was decided by the

For another example take the Han Dynasty, whose bureaucracy promoted and retained officials based on their knowledge of Confucian ethical philosophy-An entire nation (relevant to the story, even!) institutionalising power in the hands of those who could recite 'The five relationships foundational to society are the filial piety between father and son, the loyalty between a liege and his subject, ...' under the default assumption that knowing what to say makes you a better person.

Additionally, the phrase 'I am selfish and greedy' is not useful information. Well, it is, if only in the sense that you're telling her she shouldn't trust or support you in the future. If you want to tell her that Ling Qi thinks CRX is the correct person to support, she isn't going to avoid honesty, and imply she is regretful of her past actions and wants to fill the void with CRX's idealism I suggest writing and structuring a vote around that, rather than assuming the author will pick your particular interpretation of a single sentence.

To paraphrase your own statement from my perspective: CRX needs useful information, not a single pithy line on morality and our personal insecurities.
 
[X] Lady Cai's offer was the one that offered us the greatest potential for growth. She offered us a home where we could extend our roots, opportunities that would let us advance as a cultivator, an ideal that would help us grow as a person.
 
@archangis As I mentioned in a previous post, pretty sure Shenhua is making a second child now mainly because her first child is sufficiently developed that CRX can now be left to her own devices instead of needing constant fine tuning.

Renxiang has been away from her mother for less than a year. That's not enough time to be considered a total failure that needs to be replaced. Especially since she's been doing pretty well. This reads to me more like as soon as Renxiang could be trusted to stay her mother's doll without direct supervision (shown by her being allowed to go to the sect), Shenhua immediately started making arrangements for a second child because backups are always good, and now she can devote the majority of her attention to the second child to make sure it comes out just as perfectly as the first.

A violet cultivator can become two person easily (the elder that gave lessons). Why wouldn't Cai be able to do so when is two cultivation realm higher ?

IDK how much of a jerk Senghua is...
But erasing us just because we backed someone who she found 'unworthy'...Well.
It seems like a solid way to basically spook everyone around her into getting their stabbing knives out/pointed in her direction-ESPECIALLY if she grooms her replacement to be like her and doesn't stick around after becoming an Ancestor-that sort of thing says 'no I can't be trusted because I'm even stab happier then the Bai clan.' Who I might add might also be pissed, because they 'gave' her a promising young talent in the form of Ling Qi as well as had Meizhen seconded to the Cai for maintaining connections with Ling Qi...And then made a fool of. At the very least Meizhen would be pissed off which could sour that relationship. And I could see the Bai feeling like 'well you dis one Bai you dis ALL the Bai!'...
I feel like it'd be even more naked 'I'm doing this because I can' then socially acceptable to do something like that. Especially since she could simply pawn us off to the next girl in line.
...
It also could simply be an Insurance thing- if CRX should fail there's something to continue the line.

She is a white cultivator. There is no breaking out the knives possible by anyone in the province.

Aside, we are nobody. Killing us won't result in anything (well, a pissed of Bai but she is green).

It is equally possible that it'll convince her we aren't worth salvaging. Revealing personal insecurities in the form of bad character traits does not lead to the impression that one is a worthwhile asset to cultivate in the future. If you want to convey the message that this was our best option terms of opportunity and material wealth, I would suggest something that directly says so rather than halfheartedly implying it in the hopes of a favourable interpretation by all parties involved. Even so, indicating we are not fully loyal to CRX, our immediate superior who also has the ability to dismiss us from her service, while standing next to her may not be wise.

It's unlikely that she would murder us for being greedy. Darkness cultivation is not forbidden after all.

It's likely that she would murder us for being loyal, as she said GG will die for her daughter.

Her considering us useless to her is good. She won't kill us for that.
 
A violet cultivator can become two person easily (the elder that gave lessons). Why wouldn't Cai be able to do so when is two cultivation realm higher ?

Because I assume that keeping up that kind of duality is tiring, and she'd need to do it for years? Or maybe she is doing it, but subjugating the province or juggling politics is more her priority than raising more than one heir at a time. Also, raising two children at once means they might affect each other in unpredictable ways depending on how they develop. Why introduce that kind of random variable? I mean, maybe you could raise them both in total seclusion away from each other, but then you could only introduce one of them to the public if you wanted them kept a secret from each other, and overall it seems like it would introduce too many complications.

Point is, I'm pretty sure Renxiang hasn't screwed up massively enough to be replaced yet. Her mom is just being proactive with making a backup, just in case. She expects Guangli to die because I don't think she has any particular respect for idealists and figures he'll die doing something stupidly heroic in service to her daughter, but ultimately meaningless. Which is why she tells him not to break too fast. Renxiang can't keep using him if he insists on pushing himself and dying in a blaze of needless heroics.
 
It's unlikely that she would murder us for being greedy. Darkness cultivation is not forbidden after all.

It's likely that she would murder us for being loyal, as she said GG will die for her daughter.

Her considering us useless to her is good. She won't kill us for that.

Turns out I'm not gone yet, but will be right after I make one last post...

Her considering us useless is equivalent to her considering us collateral damage. If we tell her we are actively a bad influence, she may not just consider us useless, she may very well consider us a liability. Not even collateral damage, then, just a deliberate objective.

In addition (while this is subjective) I believe that you have clearly misinterpreted the statement with regards to GG. She's not saying that she will kill him, she's saying that she thinks his uncompromising dedication will inevitably lead him to his death in the same way that half of all human literature does (The other half says uncompromising dedication is a virtue, and will inevitably lead you to some form of success).

If you take her statement at face value she isn't saying that she wants him dead at all, and it is an encouragement for him to try his best to live and be useful for as long as possible in the face of a cynical belief that he will eventually die. As a matter of fact, if you read the text immediately prior to her statement you would find that it was GG who brought up him dying in the first place, not her.

For that goal, I will fight for her until my body and spirit lie broken

It can easily be interpreted as not having been a threat at all, but a wry response to GG's own fatalism.
 
Good gods, what in the hell could possibly motivate someone to tell your absolute superior, one who likely holds power over your life and death and is most probably talking to you for the express purpose of determining your suitability as an employee/minion in the future, essentially giving you a job interview, that you are selfish and greedy!?!

Character establishing moment or not, my first impression as someone who has taken lessons on this sort of thing (Unless Yrs has specifically indicated there will be few consequences to this vote in terms of future benefits and trust between character) is that this is best comparable to
The thing is, I think, that that option is approaching this write-in from a different perspective. Rather than trying to solve the problem in the best way, it's asking "what might Ling Qi's heart blurt out?"

It's not necessarily the best option, or what Ling Qi would decide to say if she were thinking about it, but it is an interesting narrative idea.

Now, I would say that the line on its own doesn't work very well. It isn't really an answer. That being said, I really like FixerUpper's elaboration and follow-up to it. In some ways this second part could actually work pretty well as an answer on its own:
"I don't know if the world Lady Cai wants to build is possible or if it's a butterfly's dream, but… I want to live in it. I want my family to live in it," the long billowing sleeves that were part of her dress stretched slightly as she began to bunch and twist the fabric nervously in her hands, and Sixiang's absence here was maddening, "Brother Gan is selfless, and I've seen it, I've seen him, I have no doubt he would willingly sacrifice himself – but, if you can forgive the clumsy comparison, where he would die for Lady Cai's ideals – I would – I seek to live for them."

My concern here is that Ling Qi openly saying this almost feels like it's jumping the character development forward a bit too fast. I kind of feel like this is the kind of dramatic heartfelt speech we could be giving to Renxiang during some trial in a couple of years, but I don't know if Ling Qi would be able to openly say it right now.
 
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[X] Lady Cai's offer was the one that offered us the greatest potential for growth. She offered us a home where we could extend our roots, opportunities that would let us advance as a cultivator, an ideal that would help us grow as a person.
 
Now, my worry with "Lady Cai's offer was the one that offered us the greatest potential for growth. She offered us a home where we could extend our roots, opportunities that would let us advance as a cultivator, an ideal that would help us grow as a person." is that it kind of feels too logical in presentation. It doesn't quite have the same character.

Otoh, yrsillar's going to be adjusting things anyway, and we did just internalise Argent Mirror.
Adhoc vote count started by Erebeal on Jun 9, 2018 at 2:05 AM, finished with 440 posts and 90 votes.

  • [X] Lady Cai's offer was the one that offered us the greatest potential for growth. She offered us a home where we could extend our roots, opportunities that would let us advance as a cultivator, an ideal that would help us grow as a person.
    [X] Ling Qi follows Cai Renxiang because
    -[X] Absolute material advantage granting growth, security, influence, etc (up to yrs how much to elaborate on this)
    --[X] Integrity of Renxiang's character meaning she can be trusted to look after her minions
    ---[X] Interest in being a better person and seeing if Renxiang's ideal world is even possible to build in real life.
    [x] "Because I am a selfish, greedy girl."
    [X] Because I want to see where she is leading towards.
    [X] Because she brought order when it was needed. Because the world she seeks to forge is the best for me and mine.
    [X] I am following her for the advantages in establishing my house and because I believe in her integrity as a leader who won't squander what I create... and to guide my own growth in such a role.
    [x] I want to believe.
    [x] Because through action and reputation, she has proven herself deserving of respect. Moreover, I see Lady Cai's path as the best way to create something of my own; as well for my personal growth as both a cultivator and person. Though I still question the feasibility of your daughter's vision of a better world, it is a worthy goal.
    [X] Power
    [x] It does not bother me to lie, cheat, steal and similar.
    [x] "It seemed like the most interesting option available."
    [X]"Because... The things I want: to have, do, build, protect, I can see them as possible on this path. And I want to see if her vision of the world is possible."
    [X] I follow Lady Cai because of the absolute material advantage she offers; because I have seen her integrity of character and judged that she would act fairly and honorably to those under her power; and because I want to see if the ideals she seek can truly be brought forth into the world.
    [X] "She has that which I lack."
    [X] "Your daughter has earned my trust that with her guidance I will become the best cultivator, noble, and person I can. In turn, I wish to faithfully aid her in the pursuit of her path, even if I cannot see its end as I am now."
    [X] Because she is my best path forward. And I want to see where her path leads.
    [x] Because I like living, and hate saying goodbye.
    [x] Your daughter's offer was most attractive, and her goals and leadership proved worthy of my respect. I decided that me and mine will thrive for pledging my loyalty and efforts to her.
    [X] I am not satisfied with the world or myself as it is. I don't know if it's possible, but I want to walk the long path toward justice at Cai Renxiang's side.
    [X] She told me that she would earn my loyalty.
    [X] "I learned early on that you can't do much more than simply survive if you live alone. I don't believe I'll see the world she envisions come to pass, but I'd like it to, and your daughter has offered to help protect the people I care about if I lend her a hand. I trust that she means what she says on both accounts, and so long as that stays true, she'll have my loyalty."
 
Subtleties of what is implied, not just said. It implies Ling Qi has a low opinion of herself, but is aware of it and wants to be better. It implies she considers these traits defining aspects of her. It implies she's willing to be scarily honest to a White cultivator.

There is a claim here that the statement "I am a greedy selfish girl" implies 4 things. 1 of which it is arguable that it is implied, 1 of which the statement does not imply, and the last 2 which it might imply. But let's be honest with ourselves here, that is not the only thing that the statement implies and the other implications are damaging to us. So let's not cherry pick which implications we want to imply.

"I am a greedy selfish girl"

The first thing the statement implies is that we only joined Cai for the material advantage. That we joined for selfish reasons and greed. That we don't care about the ideals espoused by Cai only what Cai can give us.

The second thing the statement implies is that we want to better ourselves. An implication can't be drawn that we want to be better people, because we haven't made a statement about wanting to change, but the implication that we want to raise up in the world is there.

And really, that is the only things that can be said to be implied from the statement itself. Then there are the implications of saying the statement.

The first implication of the statement being said is that we have guts of brass. We have the courage to say the statement (with the implications of the said statement) to a person who is capable of crushing us or making our life difficult without too much effort.

The second implication of the statement being said is that we are incredibly stupid. This is a person who can make our life extremely difficult and we want to throw out all niceties? To engage with her at the most basic primal level without dealing with any of the trappings of nuance? We don't know how she would react, and we want to delve to this level already?

The third implication of the statement being said is that we aren't scared of any possible retribution. Implying that we only are allies of her daughter because of resources might be dangerous, we don't know, but saying it as bluntly as this implies that we don't care if it is dangerous, or that the penalty for possibly offending her is well within our ability to handle.

The fourth implication is that we will be brutally honest with the Duchess, for good or ill.

The fifth implication is that we are incapable of softening brutal truths when under pressure. Not a particularly good implication to make when we will be dealing with politics.

I mean, let's not try and pretend that money was the only reason we joined Cai. It wasn't. There have been plenty of good reasons outside of money that has been listed, and simply communicating that we did it for the money is not fully expressing the reasons and pigeonholing us in the eyes of the most powerful person in the entire province. There are much better ways to communicate the material reasons as well as the plethora of other reasons.
 
Because I assume that keeping up that kind of duality is tiring, and she'd need to do it for years? Or maybe she is doing it, but subjugating the province or juggling politics is more her priority than raising more than one heir at a time. Also, raising two children at once means they might affect each other in unpredictable ways depending on how they develop. Why introduce that kind of random variable? I mean, maybe you could raise them both in total seclusion away from each other, but then you could only introduce one of them to the public if you wanted them kept a secret from each other, and overall it seems like it would introduce too many complications.

Point is, I'm pretty sure Renxiang hasn't screwed up massively enough to be replaced yet. Her mom is just being proactive with making a backup, just in case. She expects Guangli to die because I don't think she has any particular respect for idealists and figures he'll die doing something stupidly heroic in service to her daughter, but ultimately meaningless. Which is why she tells him not to break too fast. Renxiang can't keep using him if he insists on pushing himself and dying in a blaze of needless heroics.

I find it highly unlikely that a white has more difficulty doing something than a violet cultivator and the elder used her art with no issue.

Secondly, the province day to day is probably handled by the chancellor (the job we are aiming for in the previous update).

Lastly, see how easily it is for us to manipulate our mortal mom. A white will not have any issue taking care of one or a thousand children.

Also, CRX met her mom at 6(?) year old. So it's highly unlilely that Cai mom spend a lot of time taking care of her children.

Turns out I'm not gone yet, but will be right after I make one last post...

Her considering us useless is equivalent to her considering us collateral damage. If we tell her we are actively a bad influence, she may not just consider us useless, she may very well consider us a liability. Not even collateral damage, then, just a deliberate objective.

In addition (while this is subjective) I believe that you have clearly misinterpreted the statement with regards to GG. She's not saying that she will kill him, she's saying that she thinks his uncompromising dedication will inevitably lead him to his death in the same way that half of all human literature does (The other half says uncompromising dedication is a virtue, and will inevitably lead you to some form of success).

If you take her statement at face value she isn't saying that she wants him dead at all, and it is an encouragement for him to try his best to live and be useful for as long as possible in the face of a cynical belief that he will eventually die. As a matter of fact, if you read the text immediately prior to her statement you would find that it was GG who brought up him dying in the first place, not her.



It can easily be interpreted as not having been a threat at all, but a wry response to GG's own fatalism.

We won't get removed for being a bad influence on CRX. If just having minions that are not 100% on board would fuck up CRX she would be a failure for Cai mom.

GG saying that he will die for hdr is not fatalistic. It's a relativelly common saying, especially in culture where face is important. Cai mom answer is that either she do not believe her daughter can keep her minions from dying, or she is simply making a threat.
 
Because CRX is going to get remplaced and I don't want to follow her into death.

You're being ridiculously paranoid right now. It's more than a little unlikely that Cai Renxiang is going to be replaced as heir, let alone killed (well, right now -- it's always possible that might change in the future, but very likely not any time soon in game or IRL) for a number of reasons, which have been listed before. I get that probably nothing short of a WoG will change your mind given your vehemence on the subject, but at least try to consider other (more likely) possibilities.

Also, you keep misspelling replaced.
 
Given how easily Ling Qi can see a mortals thoughts I'm pretty sure Shenua already has a good idea on how we tick.
 
GG saying that he will die for hdr is not fatalistic. It's a relativelly common saying, especially in culture where face is important. Cai mom answer is that either she do not believe her daughter can keep her minions from dying, or she is simply making a threat.
"See that you don't die too soon" is not a threat though. If she'd said "that may happen sooner than you think" or something, that could be taken as a threat. This is her making fun a bit for him going "I'd die for her if it helped!" by saying "whoa there kid, chill out a bit". I have no idea how you're reading a threat into it, and going from that to saying that we need to distance ourselves from her daughter and seem like we aren't loyal so she doesn't kill us is absurd. Especially because if you're wrong then distancing ourselves is the last thing we want to do when she's asking about why we follow her.
 
Given you've gone with the 'selfish' vote, what do you think of @veekie 's idea? I quite like the selfish hint in that one as well.
Basically yes. I'm trying to emphasize that we DO believe CRX means what she says, but that we also recognize that loyalty by ideals is kind of flimsy in the real world.
With emphasis that under Cai Shenhua we're likely to wind up with a powerful, untouchable liege who is ALSO at least somewhat benevolent, which is good for our mortal family.
 
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