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Forge of Destiny(Xianxia Quest)

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[X] I am following her for the advantages in establishing my house and because I believe in her integrity as a leader who won't squander what I create... and to guide my own growth in such a role.

I like the meat of the currently leading gote, and would probably switch to it if it could ramp up the brevity a bit.
 
The 'She told me that she would earn my loyalty.' has its own implications with the update implying Ling Qi is Shenhua's type
and that the Duchess thinks Renxiang is the same.
 
[X] "Your daughter has earned my trust that with her guidance I will become the best cultivator, noble, and person I can. In turn, I wish to faithfully aid her in the pursuit of her path, even if I cannot see its end as I am now."

Combines a bunch of real reasons in 2 sentences, makes CRX look good in 2 ways (role model and earner of trust, loyalty, faith), shows self-awareness. Doesn't omit that we see advantage for ourselves (first sentence, can imply all kinds of support). Our talent speaks for itself, now we give a truthful answer that Mama Cai can read (not incorrectly) as "[we're talented as fuck,] we'll let your daughter mold us (and our house [...noble,...]) in her image, and repay her for this by helping her in whatever way she requires even without complete understanding of the ends."


On [] "Power." :

The one word answer "power" seems extremely out of character to me, both in its content and the fact that Ling Qi must be feeling the pressure here to PLAY TO THE CROWD. Meaning as long as she isn't suffering a sudden aneurysm ANY answer should be framed in the nost pleasing way to Mama Cai. If our answer is "to help her kill you" then we don't say THAT for fuck's sake, we say "to aid her in overcoming her greatest obstacles on the path to justice", or something.



Saying "power" is not only stupid from a content perspective, it's also transparently disingenuous (HELLO PERCEPTION ARTS) and thus fails on every level, because whatever you're trying to achieve by just making yourself out to be an ambitious upstart without loyalty to the monster cultivator's DAUGHTER, it fails pathetically when it's immediately clear you are LYING.

I mean, GEEZE. Moratorium is all discussion on the best three sentences to capture our multitude of reasons and now a serious contender is there just because it 'sounds cool'? Are we adding "Nothing personnel, kid" to CRX afterwards? When did our PC switch to Coldsteel the Cultivator?
 
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Kyr'am said:
makes me think that Minister Linqin (who Ling Qi looks a fair amount like, so far as I can tell from the description) is Cai Shenhua's lover, which gives her comment rather... interesting implications.
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Yes, exactly. Why do you think I was so terrified? If Shenhua is a Ragyo expy, Linqin is almost certainly a Hououmaru expy. Hououmaru was Ragyo's secretary/devoted slave, and she had tan skin. Like Ling Qi.

So yes. Our friend's mom, who can literally mindwipe us with a thought, just kinda sorta maybe flirted with us. Or at least somewhat expressed interest.

So glad Ling Qi is a precious innocent in these matters and managed to not catch the full implications.
 
Kai Merah said:
So yes. Our friend's mom, who can literally mindwipe us with a thought, just kinda sorta maybe flirted with us. Or at least somewhat expressed interest.
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I was thinking it was more that she was implying that she thinks Cai Renxiang is interested in Lin Qi and/or that she believes that Cai Renxiang and Ling Qi should get together.
 
Kyr'am said:
I was thinking it was more that she was implying that she thinks Cai Renxiang is interested in Lin Qi and/or that she believes that Cai Renxiang and Ling Qi should get together.
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That too. But I was mainly majorly creeped out by how she was all "oh, you look similar to my current lover, that's nice".

The very fact that Ling Qi has physical attributes that Shenhua finds appealing is super creepy to me.

EDIT: Seriously, is it not super creepy when your friend's mom comments on how much you appeal to her 'aesthetics'? And then pointedly looks at her lover?
 
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Phyrexian said:
I mean, GEEZE. Moratorium is all discussion on the best three sentences to capture our multitude of reasons and now a serious contender is there just because it 'sounds cool'? Are we adding "Nothing personnel, kid" to CRX afterwards? When did our PC switch to Coldsteel the Cultivator?
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Hehehe, you made me realise I should probably use capital letters''POWER!'', and nothing personnel kid would fit better on male character I feel. But I would like it otherwise. Maybe ''It's just business'' would fit better.

Edit: We should say power and then wink at the boss lady.
 
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I'm a bit dissatisfied with the options on the table. I feel Kai's is sort of too much content, Abeologos' is a weird mix of annoying-arrogant and confused-awkward, "earn my loyalty" is confrontational. Power isn't really ... right, but I feel a succinct answer like that which is mostly true (and I think it's more true than false) is better than any of these stumbling answers, though obviously it's not what we want.

The more I look at what Gan said the more I want to follow a similar framework.

yrsillar said:
"Lady Cai Renxiang is the woman who will bring about the world I aspire too," Gan Guangli's booming voice was somber and serious for once, all bombastic affectation gone. "For that goal, I will fight for her until my body and spirit lie broken," well, maybe not all of it.
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He stated a quality about CRX and then affirmed that the quality meant a lot to him. What quality about CRX means the most to us? It comes back to her giving us an opportunity, really.

[] Lady Cai Renxiang has given me a chance for position and resources I could've only dreamed of before. I will follow her down her path, wherever it leads.

If people think this is too decisive, well, it's well past time to decide, honestly. Even if we aren't mentally all-in on CRX, the practicalities of the situation are she offered us a good bribe and we signed on, so here we go marching down this road, where it ends nobody knows!
 
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Just reilised i forgot to vote.
[X] Kai Merah

Also i am surprise there has not been any discussion of Shenhua's pregnancy.
Are we coming up to a point where She judges if Renxiang is a worthy heir and is preparing a new one just in case.
Or was she always planning to have a second daughter and it has just taken this long to create the Dress Spirit for it.
 
Well that was a (mostly) pleasant surprise, and a good start to the tournament arc. That said, this chapter had way to many 'oh fuck' moments. In the best way possible, of course.

Firstly, is anyone else panicking that Shenhua is having another child? I'm hesitant to pull directly from KLK, but based on worst!mom's reasons in that and what we understand of Shenhua in FoD it's still concerning.

I don't for a second believe that Shenhua is deciding to have a second child for love, especially if we recall her reason for having Renxiang. If we're lucky Shenhua just decided another piece would be helpful for her and Renxiang ruling, maybe an enforcer or something, but if we're unlucky we could be looking at Renxiang's replacement. Got loads of time yet but still worrying.

Second panic moment; we're Shenhua's type.

Flashback to a certain bath scene.

[] Well it seemed like a good idea at the time but now I'm having second thoughts.

Maybe it's a good thing we're going to be assigned a territory. Hopefully it's as far away from the treehouse as possible.

And then third panic moment, the reason for current discussion. Anyone else get a sinking feeling when Shenhua asked Guangli why he follows Renxiang?

Well done Yrs, this chapter was wonderfully, subtly, unsettlingly panicking :p

10/10

Hopefully the rest of this arc is more full of awesome combat and showing off. As for current discussion, gonna hold off to see what the choices are for now. I was so not ready for this.

More comically, something I just noticed: why is it that the only ones to show romantic interest in us are the two most terrifying women we've met? Was this all just a ruse by Yrs to set up Yandere Quest?

Just kidding love you Meizhen.
 
Damn it, couldn't catch up in time for the discussion.
TehChron said:
Ambition, naturally.

To reach the heights of cultivation, to reach the greatest 'Ling Qi' that is possible, and to create a home that would always be there for those she cares about? Cai is a means to an end, for us, but we'd like her to be something more, as well. To be the friend to her that we felt she needed.

Isn't that why we went with her, in the end?
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This is the closest to what I feel our answer should be.

Our main goal is still to reach the highest levels of cultivation, that hasn't changed (building a home would've happened no matter which route we took). CRX told/showed us that it was naive to think we could achieve that without getting involved in politics as well.

So, we picked the person to follow who a) gave us what we perceived to be he greatest advantage for cultivation, and b) whilst also having ideals that we both didn't disagree with and could see ourselves learning to truly believe in.

The fact that we are learning to like her as a person is gravy as well.
 
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Kyr'am said:
That seems rather unlikely, for a number of reasons. Not only has Cai Renxiang not done anything worth being replaced over (that is, so far as I'm aware she hasn't failed at anything just yet), that would make the choice of following her something of a trap option, and @yrsillar doesn't do those to the best of my knowledge.
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I'm pretty sure Shenhua is sending a message rather than "you are replaced". It's not "If you don't produce results you will be replaced", it's "If you don't produce better results than your incoming siblings". Also, interesting Shenhua is having another daughter. Pretty sure at this point she is choosing to not have sons.
Kai Merah said:
Yes, exactly. Why do you think I was so terrified? If Shenhua is a Ragyo expy, Linqin is almost certainly a Hououmaru expy. Hououmaru was Ragyo's secretary/devoted slave, and she had tan skin. Like Ling Qi.
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@yrsillar has expressed regrets many times about making CRX a reference to Satsuki, so I highly doubt that's the case. If anything, I expect that the more we'll dig the less Shenhua and Ragyo will have in common.
DeAnno said:
[X] Lady Cai Renxiang has given me a chance for position and resources I could've only dreamed of before. I will follow her down her path, wherever it leads.

If people think this is too decisive, well, it's well past time to decide, honestly. Even if we aren't mentally all-in on CRX, the practicalities of the situation are she offered us a good bribe and we signed on, so here we go marching down this road, where it ends nobody knows!
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We have already decided to follow CRX. The issue is that currently Ling Qi has also chosen to not be a loyal vassal. Until she decides otherwise, flat out lying to Shenhua's face is not wise.
Karnax626 said:
Damn it, couldn't catch up in time for the discussion.This is the closest to what I feel our answer should be.

Our main goal is still to reach the highest levels of cultivation, that hasn't changed (building a home would've happened no matter which route we took). CRC told/showed us that it was naive to think we could achieve that without getting involved in politics as well.

So, we picked the person to follow who a) gave us what we perceived to be he greatest aw antage for cultivation, and b) whilst also having ideals that we both didn't disagree with and could see ourselves learning to truly believe in.
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If you'd recall, Yrsillar gave IC reasons for the votes on whether Ling Qi would choose CRX or Sect. CRX was for power/ build a clan/hoping that she could grow to like CRX's ideals, and the sect was because the sect is better for cultivation and it would be a place where she could be happier:
yrsillar said:
To address motivation issues. Choosing to take the cai route comes from a few points in Ling Qi's character.

On the shallowest level, there is Ling Qi's desire for power, or more specifically, her desire to be able to control her own circumstances. There is no path that allows her to do that entirely... but Cai's is the one the that puts the fewest people in a position to order her around.

On the second level, there is her budding desire for a home. The Sect has been her first home, and could certainly grow to be a true one... but Cai is the fastest route to receiving a place that is hers and hers alone(mostly, don't sweat the legal details of vassalship, she's not thinking about those.)

On the third, it will Ling Qi deciding to engage with her low level desire for something higher than her own selfishness, she might not believe in Cai's ideals, but she is willing to give them a shot and see if they can survive reality.

Are plenty of those somewhat shortsighted and not entirely logical? Yes, because Ling Qi is still fifteen.
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yrsillar said:
Ling Qi's reasons for staying inthe Sect would be...

1) This is her first ever home. the first place where she has found a degree of comfort and people she cares about. She wants to cultivate that.
2) She feels that this is the best place to continue her growth, free from other distractions.
3) The desire to learn more of the world before she binds herself hard to any particular place.
4) A sense of duty, sticking with the ones who gave her real opportunities for the first time, however small.
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[X] Because she brought order when it was needed. Because the world she seeks to forge is the best for me and mine.
 
Arkeus said:
We have already decided to follow CRX. The issue is that currently Ling Qi has also chosen to not be a loyal vassal. Until she decides otherwise, flat out lying to Shenhua's face is not wise.
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If Ling Qi has explicitly chosen to not be loyal I think we have much bigger issues than this vote. I was of the impression that Ling Qi had just not chosen to be loyal yet.
 
It sounds like we want something like

[] Out of all offers I received, hers was the most appealing. And I wish to see the results of her ideals.

Includes the selfishness without coming across as arrogant, while not lying and saying we believe in her ideals.
 
DeAnno said:
If Ling Qi has explicitly chosen to not be loyal I think we have much bigger issues than this vote. I was of the impression that Ling Qi had just not chosen to be loyal yet.
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She has had recent thoughts on how CRX is being taken advantage and betrayed by the people she trusts (E.G, CRX needs to learn to be less naive), and that she is currently one of those doing it and is not going against the other people doing it. She also thought she would have to talk to CRX about it if it doesn't change but her position as one of the transgressors meant she didn't want to yet.

You don't say "I am following her because I believe in her and am loyal to her" to someone who is known to have quasi-mind reading powers when Ling Qi herself hasn't yet come clean about betraying her. That's a "off with your head" offense.
 
[X] Kai Merah

And yeah now that a younger sister is coming along we can expect CRX to have an even bigger need to distinguish herself as a success and worthy of inheriting from Shenhua.
 
Arkeus said:
She has had recent thoughts on how CRX is being taken advantage and betrayed by the people she trusts (E.G, CRX needs to learn to be less naive), and that she is currently one of those doing it and is not going against the other people doing it. She also thought she would have to talk to CRX about it if it doesn't change but her position as one of the transgressors meant she didn't want to yet.
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If you believe the situation with the thing is as serious as this, I'm not sure we're ever getting out of it, honestly. Like, are you saying that we're never ever allowed to swear loyalty to CRX because we're too obsessively worried about it, despite it not being mentioned in a "recent" update at all as far as I remember. Because if that's the case we're already doomed unless a meteor hits Shenua or something.

Like, if you legit believe that we can't ever honestly follow CRX from this point forward, forever, I don't think there's really going to be a solution to that. Do you think we're never going to have to assert any sort of loyalty in Shenua's presence? Do you think that if we have all these anxious thoughts of betrayal in our minds that some evasive words are going to get us out of it?
 
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[x] I follow your daughter because through action and reputation, she has proven herself deserving of respect. Moreover, I see Lady Cai's path as the best for my personal growth, both as a cultivator and as a person. Though I still question the feasibility of your daughter's vision a better world, it is a worthy goal.

My issue with going too altruistic in our answer is that a major part of Ling Qi's character remains her cynical acceptance that justice is dependent on the whims of the strong and that there aren't enough resources to go around. She doesn't want to live as pragmatically as she had to in the past but her perception of the world hasn't (yet) changed, it's why she isn't as bitter/angry as she could be.

Despite that, I think Ling Qi's kinda hopeful with regards to CRX's ambitions. Not so much that it's a focus, but she can't completely dismiss them. She focusses more on possible incompatibility than her not liking them or thinking them impossible. Cai has also proven herself trustworthy, through Meizhen's recommendation if not personal action. Ling Qi seems to be cautiously optimistic about her possible growth and ability to affect things larger than herself. Material advantage honestly seems more important to the playerbase than Ling Qi as a character but I agree that cultivation growth, as an abstract goal requiring wealth, is important.
Adhoc vote count started by Grigori on Jun 8, 2018 at 6:20 AM, finished with 236 posts and 34 votes.
  • [X] Ling Qi follows Cai Renxiang because
    -[X] Absolute material advantage granting growth, security, influence, etc (up to yrs how much to elaborate on this)
    --[X] Integrity of Renxiang's character meaning she can be trusted to look after her minions
    ---[X] Interest in being a better person and seeing if Renxiang's ideal world is even possible to build in real life.
    [X] She told me that she would earn my loyalty.
    [X] Because she brought order when it was needed. Because the world she seeks to forge is the best for me and mine.
    [X] I am following her for the advantages in establishing my house and because I believe in her integrity as a leader who won't squander what I create... and to guide my own growth in such a role.
    [X] I am following her for the advantages in establishing my house and because I believe in her integrity as a leader who won't squander what I create... and guide my own growth in such a role.
    [X] Power
    [x] "It seemed like the most interesting option available."
    [x] It does not bother me to lie, cheat, steal and similar.
    [X] I am not satisfied with the world or myself as it is. I don't know if it's possible, but I want to walk the long path toward justice at Cai Renxiang's side.
    [X] She gave the best offer. I trust her to be a good liege. I'm interested in seeing if the world she desires to create is even possible.
    [X] "Your daughter has earned my trust that with her guidance I will become the best cultivator, noble, and person I can. In turn, I wish to faithfully aid her in the pursuit of her path, even if I cannot see its end as I am now."
    [X] Lady Cai Renxiang has given me a chance for position and resources I could've only dreamed of before. I will follow her down her path, wherever it leads.
    [x] I follow your daughter because through action and reputation, she has proven herself deserving of respect. Moreover, I see Lady Cai's path as the best for my personal growth, both as a cultivator and as a person. Though I still question the feasibility of your daughter's vision a better world, it is a worthy goal.
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