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Forge of Destiny(Xianxia Quest)

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Hell, even in this scenario it's arguably better for us to be able to survive a couple of seconds in melee, given we wouldn't have excellent offensive dices even with a bow.

In the instance that we go with Xiulan in the tower we would both be sitting duck if someone managed to come in, and we probably couldn't offer more to her.

In the other two scenarios, a bow would be worse off given the range we'd be fighting at.
Andelevion said:
something about the I's is weird. Maybe change to "my and Ling Qi's techniques"? I think that's grammatically correct.
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You always finish by talking about yourself, not begin.

Anyway, I am tempted to vote for "Ling Qi's idea", because it gives the better odd of being able to be well rested when we attack enemies already tired, and it probably take advantages of our knowledge of what hiding spots work well.

The fort appearing to be too big for a group of 5 screams at me not to split up the party.
 
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Ling Qi's ambush sounds like something the Intructor would approve of, given our group.

He seems to realize "honor" has no place on a battlefield when you absolutely can't fail, or many others will pay the price.
 
[x] Join Xiulan on the tower

Ling Qi is tired. The net thrower will not have any such exhaustion, and we know you can't just BS those open if they're used to catch spirit beasts. It seems best to me to exhaust our ranged options before resorting to defending the courtyard.

Plus, rival or not this teammate of ours gives all signs of being quite competent. If we support her we will enhance her devastation and keep her from getting swarmed. The more effort the ranged folks put in, the less we'll have for grueling close combat.
 
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[x] Join Xiulan on the tower

Man if only we had a real ranged weapon of sorts, that would be kind of useful right now. :V
 
Arkeus said:
Hell, even in this scenario it's arguably better for us to be able to survive a couple of seconds in melee, given we wouldn't have excellent offensive dices even with a bow.
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-> Ignoring how we could have merely focused on dodging, and the point of a ranged weapon is to kill enemies both before they reach you and with your buddies holding the frontline, and we have significantly more competent melee allies to help us, and the point of being in the backline is to keep away from said melee. If it were innefective, the doctrine of keeping ranged units in the back, guarded by melee, wouldn't persist to this day.
In the instance that we go with Xiulan in the tower we would both be sitting duck if someone managed to come in, and we probably couldn't offer more to her.
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-> Ignores how if someone managed to climb the tower, the highest points in the mountain fort, under all the fire our team is dishing out, past the melee guardians, we either seriously fucked up or the enemy outclasses us completely.
pheonix89 said:
Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't know you knew we'd be doing a static defense operation where sniping capability was important.

Oh, right, you didn't. The knives leaving us not fucked in melee would be more important in many scenarios.
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You know what I did know? And repeatedly warned about? And was vindicated about in the next fucking update?

That throwing knives are an all-compromise weapon which shine in a specific scenario or two. That we'd end up with "Not really" as our ranged rating and "I'd rather not" as our melee one.

And that the Bow is pretty much the best ranged weapon, not counting magic, we could pick. That it's a weapon that proved itself since we started with the concept of weapons.

I knew the Bow would be much more useful because it's a good weapon. There would be very, very few situations where we wouldn't be able to contribute in some way. Because it's just that good.

And the very opposite applies to the supposedly Über choice of the throwing knives, that there would be very, very few situations where it would actually shine and not make us wish we had something else.

And the exact situation I warned about happened at the very first opportunity. As I warned about. Because we knew we'd go to a gunfight, and "we" still chose to take a dull knife to it.

So I hope you are happy for picking the paper tiger option. At least be humble enough to admit you were wrong.

It's unfortunately done and over, let's hope the Dice Gods will be merciful.
 
TotallyNotEvil said:
-> Ignoring how we could have merely focused on dodging, and the point of a ranged weapon is to kill enemies both before they reach you and with your buddies holding the frontline, and we have significantly more competent melee allies to help us, and the point of being in the backline is to keep away from said melee. If it were innefective, the doctrine of keeping ranged units in the back, guarded by melee, wouldn't persist to this day.
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Are you joking?

If we focus on dodging we aren't going to be using the bow. We also aren't going to hit much of anyone with a bow. Ling Qi has one, real talent right now. She has a "We Win" button if she can manage to activate her abilities when her allies and enemies are in range.

Using a bow? Won't do squat.
-> Ignores how if someone managed to climb the tower, the highest points in the mountain fort, under all the fire our team is dishing out, past the melee guardians, we either seriously fucked up or the enemy outclasses us completely.
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Or, you know, they have an esoteric ability. There is a reason our leader doesn't want her to be alone in the tower, and it's because while it's unlikely it's not impossible for someone to get there without that person being significantly stronger than the average person of our group.
You know what I did know? And repeatedly warned about? And was vindicated about in the next fucking update?

That throwing knives are an all-compromise weapon which shine in a specific scenario or two. That we'd end up with "Not really" as our ranged rating and "I'd rather not" as our melee one.
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Or, you know, they shine when you need to be in the back-row but not far.

You know, like right now. This, right now, is a moment where knives are so much better than bows it's not funny.

Bows would be great if we had a group of ten or so people, but as is we don't have enough people to hold the line.

Well, that and even with a bow we wouldn't be more than mediocre, and we wouldn't be able to use our actual strongest ability.
And that the Bow is pretty much the best ranged weapon, not counting magic, we could pick. That it's a weapon that proved itself since we started with the concept of weapons.

I knew the Bow would be much more useful because it's a good weapon. There would be very, very few situations where we wouldn't be able to contribute in some way. Because it's just that good.

And the very opposite applies to the supposedly Über choice of the throwing knives, that there would be very, very few situations where it would actually shine and not make us wish we had something else.

And the exact situation I warned about happened at the very first opportunity. As I warned about. Because we knew we'd go to a gunfight, and "we" still chose to take a dull knife to it.

So I hope you are happy for picking the paper tiger option. At least be humble enough to admit you were wrong.

It's unfortunately done and over, let's hope the Dice Gods will be merciful.
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Except, you know, we are in a position where knives can help Ling Qi's support shine and bow don't.

That, and it's not "done and over with". We are probably going to get Bows latter when we finally get some range in our abilities.
 
TotallyNotEvil said:
-> Ignoring how we could have merely focused on dodging, and the point of a ranged weapon is to kill enemies both before they reach you and with your buddies holding the frontline, and we have significantly more competent melee allies to help us, and the point of being in the backline is to keep away from said melee. If it were innefective, the doctrine of keeping ranged units in the back, guarded by melee, wouldn't persist to this day.

-> Ignores how if someone managed to climb the tower, the highest points in the mountain fort, under all the fire our team is dishing out, past the melee guardians, we either seriously fucked up or the enemy outclasses us completely.

You know what I did know? And repeatedly warned about? And was vindicated about in the next fucking update?

That throwing knives are an all-compromise weapon which shine in a specific scenario or two. That we'd end up with "Not really" as our ranged rating and "I'd rather not" as our melee one.

And that the Bow is pretty much the best ranged weapon, not counting magic, we could pick. That it's a weapon that proved itself since we started with the concept of weapons.

I knew the Bow would be much more useful because it's a good weapon. There would be very, very few situations where we wouldn't be able to contribute in some way. Because it's just that good.

And the very opposite applies to the supposedly Über choice of the throwing knives, that there would be very, very few situations where it would actually shine and not make us wish we had something else.

And the exact situation I warned about happened at the very first opportunity. As I warned about. Because we knew we'd go to a gunfight, and "we" still chose to take a dull knife to it.

So I hope you are happy for picking the paper tiger option. At least be humble enough to admit you were wrong.

It's unfortunately done and over, let's hope the Dice Gods will be merciful.
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Yeah, this. All these points are valid.
 
@TotallyNotEvil
Our max effective range is 10 yards ATM. Regardless of weapon. Our ability to plink with a meh dice pool is insignificant next to the win button that is a successful Against the Wind. Oh look, PBAoE.
 
pheonix89 said:
@TotallyNotEvil
Our max effective range is 10 yards ATM. Regardless of weapon. Our ability to plink with a meh dice pool is insignificant next to the win button that is a successful Against the Wind. Oh look, PBAoE.
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No. Our art gives a blanket bonus to ranged offense and defense.

10-meters-centered-on-us is the range of our buffing. Which we are, by definition, always inside.

And 10 meters is three stories or so. Plenty of distance to shoot.
 
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TotallyNotEvil said:
No. Our art gives a blanket bonus to ranged offense and defense.

10-meters-centered-on-us is the range of our buffing. Which we are, by definition, always inside.

And 10 meters is three stories or so. Plenty of distance to shoot.
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What. Our active abilities are PBAoE buffs and debuffs. If we're only hitting ourself, they're largely wasted. Against the Wind does absolutely nothing if we aren't close to the fight and Guiding Zephyr is meh if we can't buff the team with it.

And guess what, at those ranges the knives work just fine, and are trading 1 damage for melee and stealth utility, which is a reasonable trade in general.
 
TotallyNotEvil said:
No. Our art gives a blanket bonus to ranged offense and defense.
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Having a blanket bonus to offense doesn't mean much when it means we get from 4 dices to 5 dices, and our opponents will likely have 8 dices + 1 auto-sucesses if they are comparable to our team.

This means in average we'd have 1-2 successes against 4 or so.

OTOH, by staying in mid-range we can instantly debuff all our opponents for 2 dices for 3 clashes, letting the team quickly take care of them.

We aren't going to do damage ourself right now, our weapon is just there to carry our debuffs, and right now knives have the perfect range.
 
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[X] Plan Hold One Tower
We don't have enough people to hold the whole fort, and splitting up is a good way to get defeated in detail. With numbers this small, the fort as a whole has no use but to force our opponents to be at a disadvantage as we let them take parts of it.
-Us in one tower, Xiulan in the other, Han Jian and company on the battlements.
-As soon as the enemy gets somewhat close to the gates, we fire off our capture web and race to the battlements to help Han Jian defend the gate with our buffs.
-As soon as it looks like the gate is starting to fall, we all rush to Xiulan's tower and defend from there.
-As time/materials permit, destroy the stairs leading up to the battlements, or cover them with something slippery for extra defensive value.
 
[X] Plan Hold One Tower


We're not dealing with endless armies. We're dealing with two teams, probably of approximately our size. It's not so much "hold the fortress" as "defeat the enemy, while remaining in the fortress"
 
Arkeus said:
That, and it's not "done and over with". We are probably going to get Bows latter when we finally get some range in our abilities.
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Why would we? If bows were so good as to make the martial arts obsolete, everyone would specialize in one. As is, though, they are just one of the multiple 'would be nice to have' weapons.

When fighting in a group, there will likely be people who can cover for a role of a long-ranged combatant, like Han Jian does now. When fighting solo, it is much more likely to be at a distance where bows are of limited use.

Simply put, once a specialization is picked, I'd like to pursue it rather than diversify into a jack-of-all-trades build. We seem to have chosen midrange (and our techniques favor it too), so we should stick with whatever complements it.
 
Nevill said:
Why would we? If bows were so good as to make the martial arts obsolete, everyone would specialize in one. As is, though, they are just one of the multiple 'would be nice to have' weapons.

When fighting in a group, there will likely be people who can cover for a role of a long-ranged combatant, like Han Jian does now. When fighting solo, it is much more likely to be at a distance where bows are of limited use.

Simply put, once a specialization is picked, I'd like to pursue it rather than diversify into a jack-of-all-trades build. We seem to have chosen midrange (and our techniques favor it too), so we should stick with whatever complements it.
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There's a lot of space between "jack of all trades" and "grab whichever weapon skill you get your first dot in and run with it". We will be opening other meridians, and finding other techniques to slot into them. These may or may not favor midrange. Also, bows are referenced as "a real cultivator's weapon". There's some implication that some weapon types are more useful long-term than others. Now, I can absolutely see the point to sticking wiht daggers until we can figure out which weapons are most likely to be useful long-term, and unlock one of those, but deciding that "we investigated a few build points here, therefore we must pursue it all the way to mastery" is a bit excessive, yah?

I was one of the people pushing the throwing daggers from the beginning, and even I think they're more likely to be useful as a holdout/survival weapon than as our long-term weapon focus.
 
Sirrocco said:
Now, I can absolutely see the point to sticking wiht daggers until we can figure out which weapons are most likely to be useful long-term, and unlock one of those, but deciding that "we investigated a few build points here, therefore we must pursue it all the way to mastery" is a bit excessive, yah?
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Depends on what we get with our meridians/techniques, yes.

Myself, I'd favor a close-combat weapon of some sort, given a chance. A spear, a staff, maybe something more exotic. Maybe even going unarmed. I don't particularly see the appeal of multiple ranged options.
 
Nevill said:
Depends on what we get with our meridians/techniques, yes.

Myself, I'd favor a close-combat weapon of some sort, given a chance. A spear, a staff, maybe something more exotic. Maybe even going unarmed. I don't particularly see the appeal of multiple ranged options.
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...because short-to-medium engagement range and long/sniper engagement range are two entirely different things, tactically speaking? If anything, I'd learn to use the daggers up close so we can double down on their flexibility and usefulness as holdout weapons and then pick up something else for long range. Of course, your'e right that it does depend on what we pick up for techniques. If we get something that significantly cranks melee ability, then "holdout weapon" isn't really good enough for that slot anymore.
 
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