Forge of Destiny(Xianxia Quest)

So, where do people want to go from here?

Like, let's consider Cai routes. Do people
  1. Want to cleanse ourselves of our sins by having Cai punish us, allowing us to move on to a new age of being a shining emblem of honor and nobility
  2. Want to resolve to never commit such crimes again, and, driven by guilt, dedicate ourselves to serving Cai to the best of our ability as the dark elemental brooding anti-hero that we are
  3. Want to join Cai just to take advantage of the benefits. Secretly sneaking out to rob people on the side and betraying the trust she places in us
  4. Want to cut them down
    • Efficiently
Because we're arguing about this on Discord, and it seems that a lot of what people are worried about is not knowing what other people's intentions are.

Now, I'm personally vehemently opposed to (3), but feel that (2) fits us quite well.

How do other people feel?
 
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So, where do people want to go from here?

Like, let's consider Cai routes. Do people
  1. Want to cleanse ourselves of our sins by having Cai punish us, allowing us to move on to a new age of being a shining emblem of honor and nobility
  2. Want to resolve to never commit such crimes again, and, driven by guilt, dedicate ourselves to serving Cai to the best of our ability as the dark elemental brooding anti-hero that we are
  3. Want to join Cai just to take advantage of the benefits. Secretly sneaking out to rob people on the side and betraying the trust she places in us
  4. Want to cut them down
    • Efficiently
Because we're arguing about this on Discord, and it seems that a lot of what people are worried about is not knowing what other people's intentions are.

Now, I'm personally vehemently opposed to (3), but feel that (2) fits us quite well.

How do other people feel?
Robbing burglarizing people is awesome though. There's even nearly acceptable targets, provided you don't get caught. If we go Cai's route, we should simply be more discerning in the horrible crimes we commit.

Also #4, obviously.
 
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I mean, this is Xianxia. Isn't the story of a character breaking out from the influence of their upbringing in an abusively strict family to become their own, better person (possibly with the help of their unrefined but awesome friends) fitting for the genre? "Row row, fight the powah!" and all that?

No, it's not. That's like the complete opposite of xianxia to have any kind of character devellopement
 
Not true. Some protagonist don't start as complete assholes and simply become such through the course of the story. Character development doesn't have to be positive after all.
Yup I still remember a Xianxia protag who went from "I will only take action to protect my loved ones" to "I will do whatever I want and if that person takes offense I will kill him, if his family takes offense I will kill them, and if the world takes offense I will kill the entire world" in just under 20 chapters it was quite jarring.
 
So, where do people want to go from here?

Like, let's consider Cai routes. Do people
  1. Want to cleanse ourselves of our sins by having Cai punish us, allowing us to move on to a new age of being a shining emblem of honor and nobility
  2. Want to resolve to never commit such crimes again, and, driven by guilt, dedicate ourselves to serving Cai to the best of our ability as the dark elemental brooding anti-hero that we are
  3. Want to join Cai just to take advantage of the benefits. Secretly sneaking out to rob people on the side and betraying the trust she places in us
  4. Want to cut them down
    • Efficiently
Because we're arguing about this on Discord, and it seems that a lot of what people are worried about is not knowing what other people's intentions are.

Now, I'm personally vehemently opposed to (3), but feel that (2) fits us quite well.

How do other people feel?
Continue on pretty much as we always have, sticking to acceptable targets. So no more targeting people Cai is trying to protect like in the market, but remember when we went on a stealing spree against Sun Liling's supporters and she praised it? Stealing is a-ok, so long as we don't team-kill, metaphorically speaking. There will be plenty of criminals and corrupt nobles to relieve of their ill-gotten gains.
 
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Want to cut them down
  • Efficiently
I just wanted to push back against using that vote as a meme.

1. It was a reaction to increasingly elaborate write-ins for what should have been relatively simple actions. Though I guess the GM liked them, so *shrug*

2. As It turns out, the power disparity was large enough for the PC to trivially kill the offending NPC with her hands essentially died behind her back. So she could have killed him no problem with one sword stroke.
 
How do other people feel?
I want something partway between (2) and (3). My ideal would be something like this:
  • We commit to acting more in alignment with Cai's ideals and goals once we are her vassal. We intend to repay her trust with loyalty.
  • We do not commit to being perfectly loyal to Cai. Loyalty to Cai will be one of our goals, and it will be a major goal, but it will not be our only goal.
  • We still feel guilt about hurting the innocent crafters. If we had a chance to do things over, we would have rejected fulfilling the favor this way.
  • We try not to feel guilt about lying to Cai, and squash the guilt when it comes up. It is natural to feel sympathetic to ones friends, and we hope that Cai will be our friend - but we've got to learn to keep secrets, particularly when they aren't purely ours to tell. There are going to be times in the future where we need to keep secrets from CRX, and even though we would prefer to avoid it when possible we need to be prepared to do that.
 
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To be honest, the level of animosity over this choice is making me reconsider doing a quest on this site, which is something I'd been considering doing. It also made me consider just stopping reading every post in the thread and only read the QM's posts.

I guess what I'm saying is can't we all get along?
 
To be honest, the level of animosity over this choice is making me reconsider doing a quest on this site, which is something I'd been considering doing. It also made me consider just stopping reading every post in the thread and only read the QM's posts.

I guess what I'm saying is can't we all get along?
It's sign people care, and people argue when they care.

Have you ever watched a Let's Play and gotten annoyed when the player did something differently than the way you would have? It's like that, but with a hundred different people.

Add to that the phenomenon where people tend to dig in their heels when challenged and the ideas of motivated reasoning and confirmation bias, and you've got a toxic stew.

Hopefully, the thread will calm down soon.
 
In all actuality the thread wasn't all that toxic. Salty? Yes. Very much so. But for the most part people remained civil and we didn't see a legion of mods desend from the sky to smite the thread or lock it down .

Take it from someone who survived maugens first bleach quest ... you haven't seen toxic yet
 
In all actuality the thread wasn't all that toxic. Salty? Yes. Very much so. But for the most part people remained civil and we didn't see a legion of mods desend from the sky to smite the thread or lock it down .

Take it from someone who survived maugens first bleach quest ... you haven't seen toxic yet
Well, I didn't want to discourage him/her with a "you think this is bad?"
 
To be honest, the level of animosity over this choice is making me reconsider doing a quest on this site, which is something I'd been considering doing. It also made me consider just stopping reading every post in the thread and only read the QM's posts.

I guess what I'm saying is can't we all get along?


Amused I am... that is just the nature of passionate questing. It's a mark of honour as a GM to have presented a contentious choice.

Passion begets conflict.

Welcome to the Dark side.
 
To be honest, the level of animosity over this choice is making me reconsider doing a quest on this site, which is something I'd been considering doing. It also made me consider just stopping reading every post in the thread and only read the QM's posts.

I guess what I'm saying is can't we all get along?

If you ever decide to do a quest or indeed do anything like posting a story, here or elsewhere, one of the most important lessons is not let stuff like this get to you too much. Critique, complains and disputes are part of presenting pretty much every creative art/work and in a quest like this, were people often invest serious time in and develop strong ties to the story and its characters, it tends to be worse than most.

And in regards to only read the QM's posts I can only say that I since I started doing that I found quests far more relaxing and entertaining than before. But I also dropped almost all quests I followed since without that element of active participation most of them are honestly kind of boring and often worse than normal fanfiction or books.
 
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I've been reading this story since it started, without bothering to vote or register because I never felt the need. Well.

Ugh at the pro-Cai people who believe coming completely clean is the only path to being her Vassal. I can't adequately express my incredulity at the people who believe Cai needs or even wants to know all the nefarious shit LQ gets up to, now and in the future. Letter of the law is fine. For lawkeepers. For a spy? I don't even. Spying is illegal at best. And spying is what Cai wants you for. The assumption that she is too dumb to realize she needs plausible deniability is hilarious. She has explicitly stated she wants you as a spy.

Coming clean, even in private, would challenge some pretty hard lines that Cai has already espoused and the fallout from such an action would make Ling Qi worthless as a spy in the employ of Cai for a long, long time, completely torpedoing any chance of being Cai's undercover operative, which seems to be the angle IC and OOC. Plus, you know, throwing someone who saved your life into the shredder isn't really something I see LQ doing, no matter how much she might dislike him on a personal level.

Not to mention it would completely screw over Ling Qi's cultivation in the now and if there is one thing LQ won't risk losing, it's that. Mainly because the thread consistently power games pretty hard, making for a very Xianxia protagonist. Which is great. But also clashes pretty hard with wanting to be Lawful.
 
Week 39, on ideals
Now was not the time for hasty impulse, Ling Qi knew. Speaking of what she had worked with Fu Xiang to do would not only do her a lot of harm, but it would be an utter betrayal of Fu Xiang as well. Slimy as the boy was, she refused to repay a good turn like that. It didn't help that Cai's words bothered her a great deal, for both obvious reasons and harder to articulate ones.

"Lady Cai," Ling Qi said slowly measuring her words. "I thank you for your honesty, but…" She met the other girls unwavering gaze, and she felt her resolve firm. If they were going to be speaking frankly, then she would speak her mind, but all the same…"May I have permission to speak freely? I fear that you might find some of things I might say insolent or offensive."

Cai Renxiang's long black hair fluttered in the breeze, the aura of light pulsing lightly behind her shoulders as she looked down on Ling Qi. "I am curious what thoughts my words might have stirred to prompt such a question," she replied after a moment, and Ling Qi thought there was a touch of resignation in her tone, but it vanished so quickly that she might have imagined it. "We are alone. I will take no offense, whatever your words."

Ling Qi bowed respectfully in thanks. "In that case," she began bluntly as she raised her head. "I think that calling yourself a monster is childish," she said.

For a moment the only sound was the breeze rushing through the stone pillars, and very slowly the heiress' eyebrows rose, her expression blank.

"I do not know what you have experienced," Ling Qi admitted."But it seems ridiculous to apply that label to someone like you."

"There are things missing from me," the heiress replied, not sounding particularly angry, just curious. "Things which my honored Mother determined to be unnecessary. I do not feel things that I know I should, if my education and tutors are to be believed. Can one who lacks such things, whose existence and goals are artificial, be anything else?"

"If so, then the empire is full of monsters, from end to end," Ling Qi answered, crossing her arms. "Cultivators shed things to grow and even mortals give things up for power or survival," she continued, finding herself clutching her elbows as she looked away. "If you are a monster, then so am I."

"I find your words doubtful," Cai replied dubiously. "While you have no doubt suffered from hardship, such trials are not the same…"

"Do you know why I'm so generous to my friends?" Ling Qi asked, interrupting her. "Why I do everything I can to stay close to them?" She asked, despite the surprised expression on the other girls face.It was pretty clear that she wasn't used to be overridden. "It's because caring is hard. Su Ling calls me an airhead sometimes, that I miss things easily, and she's right."

"Hardly an uncommon trait, if a flaw to be certain, "Cai said, looking down at her, unamused. "I do not see how such a thing makes you monstrous."

"Because I don't care, not really," Ling Qi replied angrily. This… wasn't something she had articulated before, something she spoke of, but it clung to the edges of her understanding all the same. "I have to work to care, I have to focus, and stay focused, or I just… move on," she continued, frustrated.

Because dwelling on things in the past was painful, because forming connections meant accepting loss. "At least what you want is a virtuous thing, for people to live better, safer lives, to improve government and make things more fair," she didn't stop speaking, leaving no room for Cai to reply. "I'm just a selfish girl who wants to keep her friends and family close, so she never has to be alone again, and damn anyone who gets in the way of that."
There was a reason she got along so well with Zeqing, why she found it so easy to play her songs. She knew on some level, that the way she acted was wrong sometimes. The way she simply allowed Li Suyin's quiet hero worship without gainsaying it, the tiny sliver of satisfaction that came from knowing she was the only real friend Gu Xiulan had anymore.

Most of all, the way she treated Meizhen, it was ironic, but on some level she knew that her friend was fragile… and she took advantage of that. Instead of flatly rejecting her interest in the days following that incident, she had instead given a half hearted response designed to leave room for hope. It wasn't even conscious really, she just wanted her friend to stay as close as possible.

Cai remained silent even after she had stopped speaking regarding her with furrowed brows. "Simple selfishness is not an inhuman trait," she said after several moments of contemplation.

"Neither is a desire for order," Ling Qi shot back, were they arguing or trying to comfort each other? She couldn't tell. "I don't care about laws, and to me justice is whatever the nearest strongman says it is, a meaningless word for people who want to sound like heroes in their own head, and compel everyone to keep their heads down and obey."

Cai Renxiang's eyes narrowed "...Justice requires order, but order is not justice. Not on its own," she replied quietly. "Therein lies my disagreement with my Honored Mother," she continued shaking her head. "The clannish selfishness you spoke of is the root of much evil as well. Do you know what horrors have been wrought by those who think of family above all else?"

"I can imagine," Ling Qi replied, her head bowed. "But that's the point isn't it? If you're too extreme it breaks things, no matter what you believe."

The light around the other girl dimmed for a moment, and Ling Qi thought she saw the other girls stiff shoulders droop fractionally. "So I have been learning. Do you know what I have regretted most since arriving on this mountain?"

Ling Qi closed her eyes, considering the events of the last half year. "Trusting Sun Liling to keep her word?"

Cai scoffed. "Not at all. The west is volatile, and that girl more than most. No, I regret the harshness of the penalty inflicted upon Ji Rong."

She hadn't even considered that the girl might regard that as something worth regretting. "Why?"

"Because it accomplished nothing," the heiress replied. "Some might say it solidified the appearance of my authority, but I think them wrong. Detestable as it is, the simple overwhelming force of my council was enough for that."

"I thought the point was to make sure everyone understood that corruption was unacceptable," Ling Qi replied, thinking uneasily of her own crime.

"It is," Cai agreed, dipping her head. "However, it is the duty of lords to consider circumstances, and in that incident I was overzealous, and in doing I destroyed any chance that he might have come to be educated properly. Like Mother's order it was overwhelming and absolute… but I wonder at times, what is lost when its crushing weight comes down."

"Which you believe is what she wants you to think," Ling Qi replied shrewdly.

"Quite, I was shaped to find the flaws which are beneath her notice," Cai agreed.

"I wonder about that," Ling Qi replied, feeling subdued, though she still did not intend to speak, it felt more uncomfortable now. "I have never met the Duchess Cai, but… even the Sage Emperor wasn't omniscient, you know. I don't think anyone, even great spirits, really control everything around them. No matter how hard they try."

"You do not know her," Cai's response was immediate, and Ling Qi shuddered at the fear which touched the stoic girls voice. It felt discordant and wrong, to hear that sort of childish, all consuming fear from Cai Renxiang.

"You're right, it isn't my place to speak of it," Ling Qi replied sighing. "For the record, next time we have a friendly chat, maybe sticking with discussing tea might be for the best."

The shadow on the heiress' features disappeared, and her expression returned to normal. "I believe that may be for the best."

"...Is your offer still open, with what I said?" Ling Qi asked tentatively.

"If I believed that others could not be brought to see the truth of my justice, I would not be worthy of my name," she replied, her confidence back in force.

Despite the heiress' words, Ling Qi did not feel reassured as she left Cai's training ground. Could she really commit to Cai while also committing to the lie she and Fu Xiang had crafted? She didn't know.

She did know that she was going to talk about the framing with Fu Xiang… it was a step too far and one she no longer wanted to take.

She didn't go to him immediately, instead preparing for her expedition to Xin's tower, but late that night, she made her way back to Fu Xiang's cottage for a talk.

It was a frustrating conversation, and it was clear her request irritated him, but in the end, he reluctantly agreed seeing her resolve on the matter, for that at least she was glad.

She was a selfish girl, and a greedy girl… but there had to be a limit.

AN: Sorry for breaking this into so many parts dood, week 39 has just turned out to be an important week. The last part and the week vote will be up tomorrow, but I figured people might appreciate getting closure on this whole situation.
 
Well, that turned out to be good after all!

We had a nice, heart-to-heart right there, and nothing yet is torpedoed (Though it is set back a bit). With any luck, hopefully this helps balance the scales again.
 
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Okay, I'm impressed.

That update blew away all my expectations. Yrs, you really outdid yourself. That's one of the best updates of the entire quest. Ling Qi and Cai Renxiang both got some amazing characterization and actually talked to each other.
 
Well! I certainly didn't expect Ling Qi to call Renxiang out on the '''monster" claim.

Good on her. The sharing went in a direction I didn't expect, and the revelation that the Ji Rong punishment it her greatest regret is interesting.

I really wish Ling Qi knew more about what exactly had gone in there...

Regardless, it was definitely some solid characterization, and Ling Qi confronted some truths about herself in the process ( verbalizing your views to someone else can do that).

I still think Cai Renxiang is better suited as Ling Qi's friend (ala Meizhen) than her liege though. Feels like it'd be harder to get this kind of conversation in that kind of relationship.
 
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Well! I certainly didn't expect Ling Qi to call Renxiang out on the '''monster" claim.

Good on her. The sharing went in a direction I didn't expect, and the revelation that the Ji Rong punishment it her greatest regret is interesting.

I really wish Ling Qi knew more about what exactly had gone in there...

Seems like she followed the script, and promptly realized the problems inherent in it.

Namely, that 'Overwhelming force' only works if you leave a desert behind and call it peace. If for whatever reason, you can't completely crush the targets of it to a slurry, you've done nothing more than played into your enemies propaganda. And worse, in this case, she's permanently turned a talented up and comer into an enemy of the established order, when she could have just been more even handed and turned him into an ally instead.
 
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