Forge of Destiny(Xianxia Quest)

Han Jian could probably learn non-obvious Sun arts that blind people. That doesn't make Sun a good element for stealth, all kidding aside. Music is meant to be heard, and most music arts will revolve around that. Could we find a torturous workaround? Maybe. But it'd be a weakness in comparison to things that do work well together.
 
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Han Jian could probably learn non-obvious Sun arts that blind people. That doesn't make Sun a good element for stealth, all kidding aside.

We are dooting them in the soul now. Wether people can even hear us is far from being a given. It's perfectly possible only people we affect hear our melodies, so ennemyies don't hear a thing if we buff allies.
 
Ling Qi: 'I want to be a musician, and learn to play beautiful music! But NO ONE MUST EVER HEAR IT.' Seriously guys, think about this for a minute. There might be stealthy musical arts. But do you think most musical arts are designed not to be heard? You can walk on your hands. That doesn't make it efficient.
 
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Ling Qi: 'I want to be a musician, and learn to play beautiful music! But NO ONE MUST EVER HEAR IT.' Seriously guys, think about this for a minute. There might be stealthy musical arts. But do you think most musical arts are designed not to be heard? You can walk on your hands. That doesn't make it efficient.

Playing FVM has never stopped us from rolling stealth.

Yeah, it doesn't help us go completely unnoticed. But it does let us use stealth after combat has started.
 
The girl gave her a considering look from behind her veil, and then sighed, sending the cloth hanging over her face fluttering. "I would appreciate it. The personal matter which I have mentioned to you several times has come up."
So we have the opportunity to meet Cousin Tai! I do hope he meets Ling Qi's aesthetic standards. Otherwise, it would just be an embarrassment all around, if Ling Qi immediately rejects him for being insufficiently beefy.

Though, presumably why Xiulan brought it up now is because the minors of previous weeks -- the town shopping excursion -- was actually an excuse to introduce Ling Qi and Gu Tai together without alerting Ling Qi. With several weeks passing by without a hint of interest on Ling Qi's part, Xiulan must have decided bluntness was required.

If that's so, then I expect Gu Tai to be an Inner Sect student, well into the 3rd Realms. There's no reason why Xiulan couldn't bring Gu Tai to Ling Qi on the mountain if he was still in the Outer Sect.

"Mm, well it is not as if you could be expected to push through even the passive resistance of a strong beast," Xiulan said idly, twirling a strand of hair on her unburned finger. "Han Jian, perhaps more active scouting might be effective?"
Gotta admit, I literally laughed out loud. Gu Xiulan is such a bitch! It's nice to see her own comparative failures hasn't dampened her spirits!

Though Ling Qi wondered when precisely she had gotten used to being clean.
Thus Ling Qi moves farther away from her roots. I wonder if, at Green and beyond, when she has truly become an adult, any of her survivor's mindset will survive the transition?

"As things are, once you have mastered Falling Stars… I would suggest looking into mid and close range variants, water or pure wind. One who tries to do all things will only find themselves drowning in mediocrity."
Hahaha, Zhong Peng recommends Ling Qi abandon Heaven and focus on her actual elemental suite! I think pure wind is best, on a narrative level, as archery is really an expression of her inborn talent, of which wind -- not water -- is also an expression. However, on a mechanical level, multi-element arts gets the benefits of two [element] pills, so they're trained faster. (... I hope breakthrough into 3rd Realm advances Ling Qi's wind talent into further success reductions for pure wind arts... )

Though, if we absolutely must retain Heaven, I do hope the successor art chosen uses the Star element. Ling Qi has some understanding of stellar qi through her cultivation of EPC, so the element spread contracts, a little.

The early form of the Sects physical enhancement and movement arts, combining the flexibility of wind with the sudden force of thunder. Fills the user with the strength of the great seasonal squalls which beat down upon the Wall year after year.
So Argent Storm is physical offense/defense and movement. So what's Heaven/Earth? We have confirmation that the Sect Head creates the arts and also bound a Heaven-aligned spirit beast, he should have a Heaven foundational art.

On Argent Storm itself, it's further focused on physical combat and passively gives the user burst speed. Keeping the assumption the Argent arts were made to combat the Cloud Trives, the melee physical focus indicates physical melee is what the Cloud Tribes use predominantly, and the lack of major speed emphasis indicates the Cloud Tribes also only use passive speed boosts instead of techniques.

With just the current 3 Argent arts known, the suite suggests a Hero unit duking it out, with several incidental supports on the sideline for multi-attack penalties. In comparison to my previous speculation, this suite acknowledges the Empire's numerical superiority while also bending to the fact that the cultivation pyramid exists -- as an enemy rises in cultivation, the number of people on your side that can even stand against them falls. Thus, the Argent arts may assume the typical combat scenario is one hero (with sidekicks!) against another hero, locked in physical melee combat.

What is lacking, as far as I can tell, is spiritual offense and ranged combat. This absence may be evidence that the Cloud Tribes have great spiritual and ranged defense of their own -- this would be in keeping with the dominance of the Khans: the warriors give rise to the Khans, who can no-sell both their own spiritual shamans and ranged warriors. Thus, attempting to attack at ranged or with spiritual may be clashing against defenses honed through conflict with their own people before they even reach the Empire, and therefore spiritual offense and ranged combat is ineffective.

...The aphorism "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" still applies though, Maybe if we go above and beyond on the favors for Fu Xiang, he'll give us the last Argent art?
 
Ling Qi: 'I want to be a musician, and learn to play beautiful music! But NO ONE MUST EVER HEAR IT.' Seriously guys, think about this for a minute. There might be stealthy musical arts. But do you think most musical arts are designed not to be heard? You can walk on your hands. That doesn't make it efficient.
Not all music is meant to be heard, by my enemies, is the distinction.
 
FVM, the music art we have, is built pretty clearly on support for personal stealth inside the mist. SCS, which was given to us to use with FVM, is a stealth art that specifically benefits from being used while we play FVM.

The idea that this conjunction is torturous isn't really supported as of yet.
 
So, build analysis time. I would frame things slightly differently. Our thief core is mainly utility - though the sneak attack bonuses do provide combat value. While SCS boosts combat, however, it doesn't go the other way. @drake_azathoth has brought up the silliness of playing music while trying to sneak through a city undetected, but this is largely irrelevant. Non-combat stealth is likely to be largely unaffected by either music or archery combat arts. For combat stealth, it can potentially work well either way. If we're being a sniper, then being at long range gives us plenty of room to restablish stealth after we've shot someone. For music, field effects like FVM that hide us potentially give us closer range combat stealth abilities, which could potentially be quite powerful for a sustained attrition/support strategy.

So, framing things this way, I would describe our build as something like this:
  1. Utility
    • Thief
  2. Combat
    • Archer
    • Musician
In this view of things, we can keep thief/stealth whatever we do, and it can potentially be very useful. The real choice is in our combat strategy. Music/Support/Defense tie together very well. As Ruan noted, the music style takes a lot of stamina and concentration. It requires time and build up. Fundamentally, it is a more sustained style. I see at as being good at setting up field effects like FVM, maybe things like weather control, illusions, minion armies, buff/debuff, and AoE. The nature of it as a sustained style means that defense is very important to us, since we need to be able to last a long time and not be a fragile glass flower like Xiulan. AoE field effects make us very strong in group situations, and are useful for support. Similarly, good defense, and a strategy that focuses on maintaining effects is the kind of strategy a support should be following, and you can pick up a lot of defensive arts as support arts. Overall, tanky music support is a fantastically synergistic build.

The archer style, however, plays less well here. If we're fighting at long range, then defense is less important to us - the best defense is to keep your enemies away from you. Support becomes less of a focus, since a lot of the time you want to be staying at long range in an overwatch position, so you'll be seperated from your allies. The exception here would be when you're in an artillery team, so running ranged support arts like the ZB line is useful here. However, you'd want a lot more offense boosting arts, and would want to gear more for burst dps. Stylistically, however, the long range stealth archer build is a departure from our initial group support focus.

To sum up, I suggest that both musician and stealth archer are both strong builds. Musician, however, is much more of a group support build, while stealth archer moves away from that into being more of a single target burst dps.

Now, obviously we don't have to cut everything from our build right now. We don't have the time this year, and single archery art + FZ is fine for the moment. This is more of a long term discussion. Nevertheless, in terms of what new arts we pick up, we need to think about the long term implications carefully.
 
[X] Plan Forbidden Forests, Forgotten Paths
-[X] Resources
--[X] Purchased and used: Vigorous Sapling (2rs); 2nd level wood pill (6rs); 1st level earth pill (2rs); 2nd level earth pill (6rs); Channel Cleansing Pill (2rs); Heavy Rains Pill (10rs)
--[X] Used from Inventory: 3 Red Spirit Stones; 1 Yellow Spirit Stone (Total cost 31rs and 1ys)
--[X] Overflow to physical
--[X] EPC Bonus to Fleeting Zypher

-[X] Main Actions
--[X] Train at the vent with Su Ling
---[X] Thousand Ring Fortress
---[X] Work on formations with Li Suyin, working on a project with your friend will be fun

--[X] Take a job
---[X] Passion Fruit Collection

--[X] Train with Meizhen
---[X] Abyssal Exhalation
---[X] Meizhen held something back in your last conversation. Press her on it, it seemed that she had some idea that might allow them to stay together
----[X] Has Meizhen stumbled on any wood sites?

--[X] Explore and Train with Golden Fields
---[X] Arm Meridian

--[X] Cultivate on your own
---[X] Spine Meridian

-[X] Minor Actions
--[X] Spend a little time with your 'bodyguards. You should at least know what they can do in a fight
--[X] Xiulan's family apparently wants to talk to you, you should probably see to that
--[X] Spend some time with Zeqing, you should try to better understand the snow woman, so that you don't end up offending her

So the goal of this plan is pretty straightforward. Get the next level in an art, open up much-needed meridians, learn more stuff about politics, hang out with friends, and in general, improve our capabilities and our understanding of the setting. So, lets first go over the major actions!
Major actions: AE, TRF, Spine, Arm, Passion Fruit Collection.
AE: Abyssal Exhalation is there because A) I like the art, B) it will take one action to level it up, C) it doesn't require another meridian when we level it up, D) It provides some motivation in the training session with some quantifiable improvements, as the rest of the training is slow, monotonous, and grinding.

TRF: Do you like strong defensive arts? Do you like arts that can allow Ling Qi to tank and survive an encounter with the massively physical brawler that is Sun Liling? If so, then we got to put the work into it. It is going to take a couple more actions to get it ready for the next level, so each action now is invaluable.

Spine: We've learned AS now it's time to equip it. That the previous attempt to get a spine meridian failed means that we need a spine meridian now in order to equip and use AS. While some may argue that the techniques are not exactly what we want, the passives look pretty good.

Arm: We will need two arms if we want to get FSA 5 and AC 3. This is one of those arms.

Passion Fruit Collection: A job that requires that we don't hurt the dragon (level 3), is worth 35 sect points, and seems custom built for a stealth character to get more juicy successes from EPC? Sign me up!

Now it's time for the Minors: Li Suyin, Meizhen talk, Bodyguards, Xiulan's family, Zeqing.
Li Suyin: I like the idea of the Vault warrior, and I like formations in general. As such the Li Suyin minor is a nice minor to have.

Meizhen talk: This is the "explore options" talk. I want to do this talk rather than approaching Cai right now mainly because while I feel that Cai is a great choice I also feel that if we don't choose this option we will regret it. Qi has no idea regarding her options and is trying to tread water regarding politics right now. Having Meizhen talk about this should reveal what the different political options are and grant us some more understanding of how the Bai family works (even if it is only a marriage option).

Bodyguards: If they are going to be protecting us, then we need to know what they can do. If we can rely on them for a fighting retreat, or if we should simply ditch them and run. Either way, I like their characters and would enjoy it if Ling Qi got to know them a bit more. (also, it reveals what else arts can do, always good information to have).

Xiulan's family: We promised... we should keep our promise. Even still, this obviously means a lot to Xiulan, so lets do it and get it over with. Even if it will be incredibly awkward.

Zeqing: Not getting eaten by our musical instructor seems like a good use of our time. Another point is that we have Xin's knowledge that Zeqing is lonely, and while she is not the most comfortable spirit to be around, we can learn a lot from her regarding how spirits act and what defines a spirit.
 
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Why take the job instead of working on Fu Xiang's favor?

I guess the deadline for it is any time before the tournament?
 
This is completley wrong. Stealth has multiple goals and methods. In broad strokes we can distinguish between A: hiding the fact that we exist and are nearby and B: hiding our precise location mid-fight.


Building on this, reasonable ways that music can enhance stealth of either type:

1. Hiding positionality of noise: More thunder than music, but controlling sound means playing with it in fun ways, throwing your voice, putting on a fake location.
2. Sleep: Lullabies are pretty classic music tech, and putting foes to sleep is a great way of getting in and out without a direct confrontation, or kidnapping, both of which help a good deal with stealth
3. Cacophony: Deafening enemies hurts their ability to think and perceive. Distraction, even if loud and obvious, can be used to hide locally, if not hide the fact that we exist and are around. Combat stealth (hiding your location from an enemy that knows you're near and is looking for you)
4. Non-linear attacks. With music that's not sound, we don't necessarily need straight LoS to hit stuff. This means we can attack without losing as much of stealth, unlike with archery or, worst, melee. With music that isn't sound persay, it's debatable if our attacks would even need a clear positionality.
Don't forget anti-sound via destructive interference. Music relies just as much on the absence of sound as the creation of sound, and playing music which creates silence would be awesome.
 
At this point, do you guys think we should buy the last argent art with sect points?
 
Why take the job instead of working on Fu Xiang's favor?

I guess the deadline for it is any time before the tournament?
A couple of reasons.
1) The job provides sect points, which we need for either tutoring or getting 3rd level archive arts.
2) I would rather wait closer to the time of the competition so that we could steal either more valuable components or a whole working piece of art.
 
Ling Qi: 'I want to be a musician, and learn to play beautiful music! But NO ONE MUST EVER HEAR IT.' Seriously guys, think about this for a minute. There might be stealthy musical arts. But do you think most musical arts are designed not to be heard? You can walk on your hands. That doesn't make it efficient.

Our current music art is compatible with stealth, but honestly it is the odd man out. I'm all for continuing to practice our music; it's a nice character trait. If there are out of combat music arts, I would be fine picking up them; a healing or purification art, an banishment or exorcism art, who knows what we might find...

But for our combat suit, yeah, probably not going to support picking up more music. It doesn't play well with any of the other parts of our build.
 
Our current music art is compatible with stealth, but honestly it is the odd man out. I'm all for continuing to practice our music; it's a nice character trait. If there are out of combat music arts, I would be fine picking up them; a healing or purification art, an banishment or exorcism art, who knows what we might find...

But for our combat suit, yeah, probably not going to support picking up more music. It doesn't play well with any of the other parts of our build.
So you are proposing we drop music as a combat thing, and then either stop using FVM or get bonuses for it via something other than music (e.g. bonuses to Spiritual Attacks)?
 
I meant as tutoring.
I don't think that would work; accessing the archives is in line with hiring a tutor, so you probably can expect to get an art from a tutor. I was thinking of using a favor from Cai here. We've earned a couple, and she's the most connected outer sect discipline at this point.
 
AE is only kinda shitty, but the shittyness isn't why I don't like it. I don't like it because its first tech (which is usually a defining feature of an art) fails to synergize with everything else we do.
...It debuffs, degrades armor, and creates low-light conditions we can use SCS in. Only unlike FVM it does so silently and without occupyng our hands.

This was the first art for FVM at first level.

'Mist of the Vale: o
Cost 3
The users melody causes a light mist to roll forth from their flute. The mist is filled with deceptive shadows and sounds, and weakens the light within to low light. The mist can spread up to a twenty meter radius centered the user. All single target techniques targeted at the user suffer a two dice penalty. The user gains a two die bonus at stealth attempts within the mist. The user may spend an additional two qi to extend these benefits to a single ally. This technique persist as long as the user continues to play and up to three turns afterward.'

AE in contrast
'Breath of Stygian Depths: oo
Cost 6 qi
The user exhales, expelling the hunger that lies within their soul into their surroundings. This qi takes the form of poisonous purple mist and stretches to encompass twenty meters around the user, reducing lighting to low. The user clashes with all targets within range, on success, the target suffers a two die penalty to defenses for the turn and loses two qi. This effect repeats each turn for three turns after. In addition, all targets suffer one point of armor degradation per turn spent in the mist. The user may exclude a target from the mists effects for two additional qi per target.'
 
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So you are proposing we drop music as a combat thing, and then either stop using FVM or get bonuses for it via something other than music (e.g. bonuses to Spiritual Attacks)?

I would suggest we keep using it until it's time to sunset our yellow techniques. We don't need to aggressively change our game-plan, just lets things that don't synergize fall by the wayside over time.
 
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