Brockton's Celestial Forge (Worm/Jumpchain)
- Thread starter LordRoustabout
- Start date
SiegfriedisOP
Calamity Demon King of Time
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Either LordRoustabout finds it while scrolling through the comments or someone gets his attention with an @.
Reading this reminded me the HP/PJO fic Serpents and Celestial Bronze. A crafter creating a safe place for demigods and creating his own children to protect them. You can find it on fanfiction.net
Nice idea and something i can see happen in the future - but please add some line breaks to that wall of text. When things are mashed together like that it feels like the narrative is extremely rushed, like if a live sports commentator is telling it.
- Location
- Odessa
Yes, but looks like it takes years, Scion was saving people again and again and again, but he would have eventually realized that it wouldn't help him.
PTV is a bit different, so it's likely to adjust faster. It's also likely to be how prediction engines in general improve themselves, so they will notice and react, but on the other hand they probably aren't used to having an outright false input, so it might take them years to figure out and filter false input.
Even if it does take years to discover false input for shards by themselves, they have hosts, hosts might notice, experiment and figure out to look at situation in general, which will also teach shards to adapt. Like: 'what is the chance of e88 being gone in next 24 hours' instead of 'what is the chance of Apeiron wiping e88 in next 24 hours', first will return 100%, second a near 0% value, yet Apeiron ends up wiping E88.
Don't blame teenagers for adults' faults. Piggot is in position of power and should have and could have done better.
Same for Carol. Damping your child into master stranger cell without looking into the situation just because you are busy isn't exactly responsible (Piggot needed Carol's permission and Carol gave it). If Carol was a better mom, she would have made damn sure that it isn't just teenagers being teenagers before agreeing to anything and would have 'court martialed' Armsmaster on the spot the moment she saw the outright interrogation or learned about a lie detector.
Same for Armsmaster. Lie detector shouldn't have happened, outright interrogation shouldn't have happened. Piggot should have looked into that, paled then ordered Armsmaster through army of sensitivity and common sense trainers.
We do not know how much Piggot actually knew or suspected about Amy's power. Armsmaster can make master-tech and biotech if he wished to. Dauntless can at minimum enchant something to have a master effect, potentially he can enchant something living as well.
And if Piggot/Armsy looked closely into the 'questions' they were unlikely to be as urgent about it and would have realized that they might have stumbled onto something personal, not related to Apeiron instead of slamming the 'master' button.
Nothing here is Amy's fault, she has a right to protect her personal life. Potentially Amy could have truthfully said that she doesn't want to talk about something instead of triggering lie detector, but we do not know what the question was, nor can we expect teenager to know how to properly wiggle out of sensitive topics without lying.
I suspect that she won't, because she will be suspended the moment they get a bit of fresh air, and she knows it. Apeiron forcing Villians to have a 'breather' just means another hit to PRTs reputation and to Piggot in particular, because PRT couldn't do anything, but Apeiron did.
P.S. With how eager to please Survey seemed to be at the summit and with multiple infosec incompatible individual present, PHO might start a love triangle ship with Survey->Apeiron->Khepri (after they stop freaking about the Nightmare Beast)
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- Location
- Behind you
PHO: Nightmare Beast is obviously Apeiron and Lady Khepri's child! It got the Beast from it's dad and the Nightmare from it's mom!
Then they learn that Survey and Tetra are always discussing over childish (for Joe) things, so they start calling Survey the Evil Stepmother
Oh yes, all very reasonable behavior, and they are all very reasonable adults who behave quite reasonably. Well, if you expect someone like Piggot who has trauma induced paranoia against bio-anything (but most especially a biokinetic as a biokin was at the heart of the event that traumatized her) as evidenced in the Uppercrust interlude where Upper points out Piggot has the option of curing her easily curable serious medical condition in a master tank to behave reasonably.
An option she refused for years up to this point to take. Meaning she did not trust Amy even before Apeiron appeared on the scene. And that's before you add in the bank scene where Amy threatened to give cancer to villains. In public. If she did this here, then she's not doing a very good job of keeping the extent of her abilities a secret. The only thing she has been consistent on is that 'she can't affect brains', that's it. Meaning given Piggots obvious distrust of Amy by her refusal to ask for healing for her serious medical condition, she does not believe Amy on what her own limits are.
Hence the wig out. A complete over reaction due to a nightmare scenario of her trauma event reoccurring under her watch.
I am not blaming Amy more then I would blame a dog for a driver driving his car into a ditch to avoid running it over. The dog is at fault, that is a fact, but a blameless fault. Same here with Amy. If it had been Vista or Clockblocker or Victoria who had triggered the experimental tinkertech I highly doubt Piggot would have slammed down on the Master button as hard as she did.
EDIT: Spacing.
Also as to what triggered the tinkertech gadget, based on Lisa's info she pulled from her sources and her thinker power, it was because she refused to admit her crush on her sister. Which given she was being interrogated about her conversation with Apeiron, that means the questions tie in with Apeirons accusation that Victorias aura has a master effect attached to it. Which we see in that scene Amy freaking out at the accusation as clearly it would mean her pure wincest love for her sister is due to being mastered by her sister and not because her sister is the wonderful kind beautiful hero that she is.
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- Location
- Odessa
She did not trust 'para' in general (quote: especially harbors a deep hatred towards all capes), she is in a position where she could have arranged for Scapegoat or potentially some other PRT-affiliated healer.
P.S. But obviously people that evaluated Piggot as fit for this work also made a mistake (even if it was arranged by PTV).
Being able to give cancer and being a full scope biokinetic are two very different things. Potential for cancer (which might have been an empty threat) is already there, in the body, as is. Assuming presence of ability to create something entirely new based purely on known ability to heal is a stretch. Amy did not promise to develop an Anti-Undesiders plague or to unleash an army of mutated rats at them.
Amy is not at fault for Piggot being a broken person or jumping the gun, Piggot is at fault for not managing her own problems.
I strongly suspect that she would have in Glory Girl's case or for Browbeat. But likely would have done the same for any other cape.
It also could have been a political and spiteful move on Piggots' part, for calling her insane and to isolate Apeiron, force him to crawl to her (a tinker without support in a gang infested city is a dead tinker) with master accusations being a convenient excuse.
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Cerridwen
President of the Roustafarian Book Club
- Pronouns
- She/Her
A question for Lord Roustabout:
So I got into an argument with a guy on Discord (as one does) about cupholders. I argued that Joe could make a cupholder beyond all cupholders that would go above and beyond the human concept of what it is to hold a cup, while the opposing viewpoint argued that cupholders are perfect the way they are and would see no enhancement beyond looking nice, because all they do is hold cups.
So if Joe went absolutely balls-to-the-walls in making the absolutely most insanely over-the-top cupholder he could... what would it be capable of?
So I got into an argument with a guy on Discord (as one does) about cupholders. I argued that Joe could make a cupholder beyond all cupholders that would go above and beyond the human concept of what it is to hold a cup, while the opposing viewpoint argued that cupholders are perfect the way they are and would see no enhancement beyond looking nice, because all they do is hold cups.
So if Joe went absolutely balls-to-the-walls in making the absolutely most insanely over-the-top cupholder he could... what would it be capable of?
- Location
- Behind you
While I don't really have anything to add to the discussio, I want to point out that the only time Amy ever threatened to give cancer to someone it was to Taylor who was holding her at knife point while TT was pointing a gun at her sister. And it very much felt more like a panic responce than anything else.
- Location
- Odessa
At minimum it will keep cup's external surface at comfortable temperature, cup's contents in stasis and at perfect temperature. It will be impossible to spill content of the cup while in the Cupholder and during extraction unless that's the intent. Will auto-adjust to cup of any size and form factor (be that a drinking horn, glass, single use carton cup or an encient metallic cup) or to adjust to hold multiple cups. It might be capable of teleporting a cup out and into your hand based on your intent and dispose of empty single use cups automatically, generate a new cup if you have a bottle but no cup.
On top of all that it might get a tank rated shield to make sure nobody messes with the content.
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- Location
- Philippines
Nah, it's lacking. There should still be nanotech, magitech, and outright reality warping Clarketech, because of course holding your cup is a household problem and we all know what that means.
The Cupholder knows all, past, present, and future. It has access to all of existence, can summon even Heroic Spirits because the Cupholder holds all Cups which of course includes the Holy Grail, but it is driven by one singular purpose - to hold your cup, and so, it reads the future to know which cups it will hold and acts to ensure that it will always hold the fateful cups, as they should be. If someone would, for example, poison your coffee then preemptively it creates nanotech drones and summons Heroic Spirits to eliminate the poisoner, all to ensure that when the time comes and you put that cup of joe in the cupholder, it is in its proper state.
(It has a profound hatred of people that put coins in it, however. It is The Cupholder, not the Coinholder thankyouverymuch.)
TurboLightning7
The Kid of Speed and Lightning!
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I really want this.
What the fuck is this discussion right now lol. This made me laugh.
It also wasn't really a 'public' threat, as the civilians were already gone. The only ones who know about it were those 4. And I doubt Amy/Vicky told the Protectorate/PRT about that little item...
I mean, I disagree that Piggot would have reacted different if it was another cape. I think if someone started showing signs of influence (according to Armsmaster's device) after contact with an unknown like that, that she would have responded no matter who it was. Like I mentioned before, I pretty much blame Armsmaster for that debacle more that Piggot, but that's my own opinion.
Although to do that really effectively, Joe would need to make the same hammer out of the same materials throughout the whole process of him gaining powers. Then you could test the power and durability of a hammer before and after receiving a quality booster perk. Since he hasn't been doing that, then regular science doesn't have enough evidence to even start giving good predictions.
Maybe Survey could just categorize all the quality booster perks under one effect, an effect that grows stronger when Joe gets a new power. But then again the wording of the quality booster perks varies on how the effects get applied and what they get applied to. So it would still be very, very hard to say perk X gives a 120% boost and perk Y gives a 150% boost. So I still can't see a way regular science can detangle the mess of perks in order to give good predictions. Even with a superintelligent AI with crazy amounts of processing power and data storage working on the case.
Does anyone know if Joe is able to get the Toggle perk from personal reality or capstone? If he got that he could turn off all his perks, build some hammers, turn on one quality enhancing perk, build hammers as identical as he can get to the previous set. Then you do testing and destructive testing on the hammers. Repeat for every individual quality perk. Repeat for various objects, potions, etc. And each batch better have a lot of items so Survey can go all out in testing them. He'd still be able to use his time/speed perks though. Although to be extra thorough at documenting Joe's powers, he really should only test out a single perk at a time. Oh! I just also thought that he would need to test each combination of perks as some perks have surprising synergy with each other. The combination of perks would get exponentially out of hand. (It would also be really boring to read.)
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Will Joe get more constellations as he completes the basic/first ones or is it just Reality and Capstone?
Also if the unofficial reference docs are accurate then the Toggle Perk is not in either Constellation
Also if the unofficial reference docs are accurate then the Toggle Perk is not in either Constellation
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Narsauce
The Crucible Shitlord
- Location
- Here, there and everywhere
As far as I know, the only constellation unlocks are the Reality and Capstone ones. Lord is currently researching other Jumpchain backgrounds from the OG Celestial Forge to add to BCF, so some constellations might make a reappearance.
- Pronouns
- Male
Where can I buy one? And will it cost me my soul?
There cleaned it up and added some linebreaks look better now?
So, we've got the Capstone and the Personal Reality Constellations unlocked. I guess the next big "thing" is whether or not Joe's going to get a body mod? With how absurd he is now, I can only imagine what things would be like if Joe had something like the Essential Body Modification Supplement (the only body mod thing I'm familiar with) to draw on.
What are Body Mods? I saw them mentioned in the Personal Reality perk "Body Mod Pod" but it doesn't explain them
Much better. It's a nice omake, and it was a shame to have it fail to present itself properly because something as simple as formatting.
Body Mods are something Jumpers in Jump Chains can choose at the start of their jump. Basically permanent modifications to their bodies that can do stuff like making them ageless, give them a shifter form, and so on. The "Body Mod Pod" is then ment to give the Jumper the ability to share these abilities with any companions they pick up - because it might be sad to have the Jumper have fiat granted eternal youth or other huge advantages, while the companions just are squishy humans.
AntaeusTheGiant
Child of Gaea
- Location
- Lawrence, KS
Actually, I have a wild and crazy idea. And since LordR is a careful and considerate man, it doubtless stands no chance of happening, but I'll throw it out there anyway.
Instead of the Body Mod supplement, how about instead we try something completely different. LordR has said that the other editions of the Celestial Forge (currently it would probably be the third) would only become available to Jozef if he met the conditions for a second trigger. Since this would involve him either loosing or being betrayed by his entire current support structure, nobody wants to see that. And since LordR has proven to be a man of his word, that is doubtless the final word on that.
But, consider this.. instead of another supplement, the next time Jozef completes a constellation LordR instead inserts one of the 38 constellations from the 3rd Edition of the Celestial Forge. Since the same rules apply as with the current version, only those perks from settings LordR is familiar with would be used. This would still add lots of new things to the Forge I'm sure, and LordR would have time to digest it since it would only phase in one piece at a time.
Edit: Wow, we are almost on page 1000. Is something special planned for when we get there?
Edit 2: Dam, there is recent WOG that pretty much kills this idea, a la:
So much for that then.
I have an even worse idea.
We all know that the Celestial Forge interrupted Jozef's trigger and offered him an alternative, which he took, hence this story. The Celestial Forge itself is not shard derived, but what if......
My understanding of Triggers is that if you are in close enough proximity at the time to the trigger to an existing parahuman/shardbearer, your shard will "ping" of off that one and gain some benefit from it.
What if someone triggers in close proximity to Jozef, such that if he had a shard it would influence the triggered person's powers.
But instead, the Forge offers the triggered person the same choice it offered Jozef, but with the alternative being various other versions of the Forge or Forge-influenced powers like the Celestial Menagerie, Celestial Grimoire, or Garden of Eternity.
Think of how much that would simplify and uncomplicate the story!!!
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