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Blood, Sweat, and Tears (WH40k Design Bureau)

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Sir_Travelsalot said:
I'm... fairly certain there isn't grades of ceramite so much as thickness of the layer itself, given that ceramite is the material used in some patterns of regular Carapace Armor as well.

And Astartes power armor pieces are made of plasteel with a thick ceramite layer over it.
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Aren't there both? I cannot believe that shitty Ceramite can't exist or that it can't be halfassed though I'll give this to the Imperium: despite their many many faults they have achieved a frankly admirable degree of consistent quality on all of their junk. But there are different grades of Kevlar, to give an example of an item that is used as both a building material and armor, because it's traits can be min maxed depending on what you need it for.

As such while I do not believe that there is indication in the lore to believe that there are indeed different grades of Ceramite the fact that a lot of the parts of the Imperium have their own twist on otherwise ubiquitious materials like plasteel makes me think that the same probably applies to, well, everything else.
 
mithril-blade said:
Aren't there both? I cannot believe that shitty Ceramite can't exist or that it can't be halfassed though I'll give this to the Imperium: despite their many many faults they have achieved a frankly admirable degree of consistent quality on all of their junk. But there are different grades of Kevlar, to give an example of an item that is used as both a building material and armor, because it's traits can be min maxed depending on what you need it for.

As such while I do not believe that there is indication in the lore to believe that there are indeed different grades of Ceramite the fact that a lot of the parts of the Imperium have their own twist on otherwise ubiquitious materials like plasteel makes me think that the same probably applies to, well, everything else.
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This could be possible, but there is a factor that isn't being take to account here; STC-tech. For almost certain, things like ceramite, armaplas, plasteel and Adamantium are made with STC processes, just ones that were so ubiqutous that they weren't lost during the Age of Strife. The overwhelming majority of the tech the Imperium runs on is from STC fragments. So it is just as likely that there isn't different grades of those materials because its all high grade.
 
Sir_Travelsalot said:
This could be possible, but there is a factor that isn't being take to account here; STC-tech. For almost certain, things like ceramite, armaplas, plasteel and Adamantium are made with STC processes, just ones that were so ubiqutous that they weren't lost during the Age of Strife. The overwhelming majority of the tech the Imperium runs on is from STC fragments. So it is just as likely that there isn't different grades of those materials because its all high grade.
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Depends on what you believe an STC is, and how they were meant to be used.

As for grades, yes, the Imperium has multiple grades of all of it's metamaterials.
 
Sir_Travelsalot said:
This could be possible, but there is a factor that isn't being take to account here; STC-tech. For almost certain, things like ceramite, armaplas, plasteel and Adamantium are made with STC processes, just ones that were so ubiqutous that they weren't lost during the Age of Strife. The overwhelming majority of the tech the Imperium runs on is from STC fragments. So it is just as likely that there isn't different grades of those materials because its all high grade.
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There ARE different grades of plasteel though. To wit, only "Heavy-duty" Plasteel is used to bind with ceramite to make Space Marine armor, and that difference right there is a grade, no?

DaLintyGuy said:
Depends on what you believe an STC is, and how they were meant to be used.

As for grades, yes, the Imperium has multiple grades of all of it's metamaterials.
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I've always had this theory that there are different kinds of STC as well, with some that directly make things and some that are merely very comprehensive engines that guide people to make those things.
 
So can make a design to research Ceramite-Plasteel composite armor for our ships? Just a general better armor research before we make our first cruiser at least.
 
DaLintyGuy said:
Depends on what you believe an STC is, and how they were meant to be used.
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I see them as voice activated computers with hologram interfaces designed to explain to colonist to build whatever they need with the tools they have. It includes a printer that can print copies of the instructions for a specific item. They date form the dark age of technology where the planners could not predict what colonist would need or have so they send one with each colony ship. Most are damaged and often what is found are parts of prints from these computers describing to make something specific or even copies of these printout sometimes copied by pen.
 
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Turn Six Design Phase
  • Threadmarks
    • The remaining Humans of the Lativa Subsector now fought one another for the right to dictate what the future would bring. A Bagalog representative briefly stopped by on the edge of the Calavar system in order to state their regret at the need for their ships to be withdrawn from the Homnan region in order to protect against the deserters from Gehault. An equivalent from Yttreum arrived to plead for aid from the remaining Loyalist faction in the region, pointing out that the ships at Fleet Bastion Gehault were there in defiance of the orders of the Sector Battlefleet and so were traitors in a lesser way than the Chaos worshipers to the West.

    News of the consolidation of Traitor factions spread swiftly despite efforts to the contrary and stirred unease in the general population. Yet the Crusade still stood, and had reaped a terrible toll on their foes for every loss suffered.
    The new Warbosses to the North, emerging from the ruins of WAAAGH!! Jawbreaka, were much less noticeable. Further, had the Crusade not defeated them at the height of their power?

    Things may not have been bright, but it was imagined that the light of the dawn of the new era could be seen over the horizon.

    =====

    Lord Admiral: So much for that period of consolidation. We've got masses of Traitors checking our Western expansion, the bloody Orks are stirring again, and what portion of the Subsector that could be called "free" is shooting one another. And, unfortunately, it's our mess to clean up.
    To give them credit the speechwriters available to Yttreum did a good job. The general population is far more sympathetic to them than either other party in the region, and so High Command has given us the green light to buy favor with them by selling war material.

    The recovery of Dervaius Noctris has given us a powerful asset and future friend. Limited as he is by being a ground formation, it may be worth attaching his troops to our Void army. Give those Traitor slag-brains a taste of their own boarding but with Knights rather than rabble. Otherwise, I have no preferences. He has accepted serving under our banner and that is good enough for me.





    Current Technology available in the matching Informational Threadmark.
    Current ship classes are present in the Naval Registry Threadmark.


    [You have four (4) Design actions available.]
    [Six hour moratorium on voting to encourage discussion.]

    [Cruiser Plasma Broadside available for trade with Lexicalum or a Forge World.]
     
  • Threadmarks
    • Should we try to go for Adamantium armor? A light cruiser design? "Assembly line" tech to make common components (like the Auspex or Macrocannons or Cove hangars or torpedoes) cheaper in bulk? Freighter escorts that look just like defenseless lambs until they broadside a raider at close range? Maybe some kind of "fleet command bridge" that is designed to help coordinate large battles with over a dozen ships involved without it necessarily devolving to a chaotic melee of every ship for itself?

    IIRC, we might need to build more civilian grade shipping to move our armies around soonish.
     
    Whelp, what do we need? Or what do would we like? Because it honestly feels like our biggest failing is that we just don't have enough ships.
     
    EternalStruggle said:
    Also a Carrack-class is a ship apparently. Not sure what that is. There's a canon Carrack-class military freighter, but that doesn't have torpedo tubes and won't exist for about 500 years, so I presume it's a different, local class of vessel.
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    More likely it is the canon class, because anyone able to produce their own vortex ammo can certainly install some torpedo tubes into one.
    butchock said:
    @DaLintyGuy how good are merchant auspex in detecting Silent Running ships? It must be pretty bad considering the bulk of the khornate forces are freighters, also that's the standard pirate and raider strategy here, right?
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    Note that we're not using merchant grade sensors any more, we've mostly upgraded to the T-100 Auspex.

    Also yay an update! Now to go read it.

    Edit : Also, resposting this plan suggestion for discussion.

    Potential Plan Shields, Boarding Combat, and a Warp Drive.
    (Defence) Haptrix-Alpha Interlock Shields: The Haptrix-pattern shields are a serviceable design, but are fairly expensive, and have proven somewhat unreliable in practice. Perhaps worse, they are projected to scale up poorly both in terms of cost and in ability to stop capital-scale weaponry. This redesigned version uses a smaller number of larger shields to simplify the design and strengthen each pane, and arranges them in two concentric shells with the panes offset like bricks to provide redundant coverage.
    (Boarding Craft) Narwhale Breacher Craft: The first dedicated boarding craft developed in the Crusade, the Narwhale outwardly bears a great deal of resemblance to the Harbinger Transport, because it uses the same hull configuration. Internal space has been sacrificed to add additional reinforcement to the superstructure, more powerful engines, and even install a small Void Shield. An array of hull cutters is affixed to the prow to force entry onto an enemy vessel and deliver its cargo of boarding parties.
    (Utility) Naval Armsmen Garrison
    By dedicating an utility component's worth of space to housing Naval Armsmen and associated gear, as well as the needed equipment to maintain and repair frame armor such as Shelters, it is possible to maintain a substantial amount of them on board in both the deck itself and across the ship to supplement already existing security stations. This vastly increases both the quantity of trained manpower for shipboard combat operations and the amount of Shelter type Frame Armor available given the continual maintenance and repair issues such assets face. With this increased manpower, a ship so equipped can expect consistently superior results for onboard combat, both defensively or, if paired with an appropriate delivery system, offensively.
    (Warp drive) 'Longstride' Warp engine. While the typical drive utilized in merchant shipping suffices, the minimal use of technology and advanced components to save costs caused them to have slow charge times, greatly limited speed through the Warp and not being suited for fast/emergency jumps. The Longstride was Calavar's first attempt at improving their engines to something closer to what is utilized on Imperial Navy ships.
     
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    Alternatively, I want to note we've been using those mark 1 Macrocannons for a while now. It might be time to see if we can upgrade to mark 2, or get some laser or particle batteries going because those would probably be easier to extend to medium range and we could mix them in with the normal batteries.
     
    Rockeye said:
    Should we try to go for Adamantium armor? A light cruiser design? "Assembly line" tech to make common components (like the Auspex or Macrocannons or Cove hangars or torpedoes) cheaper in bulk? Freighter escorts that look just like defenseless lambs until they broadside a raider at close range? Maybe some kind of "fleet command bridge" that is designed to help coordinate large battles with over a dozen ships involved without it necessarily devolving to a chaotic melee of every ship for itself?

    IIRC, we might need to build more civilian grade shipping to move our armies around soonish.
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    I think our Escort Carrier might be the biggest thing that we bring to the table as due to Mechanicum politics going heavily for carriers is hard for a normal Imperial Navy. I think that perhaps "modernizing" our Escort Carriers to have have more repair facilities and maybe even manufacturing components would be a good idea.
     
    Whipple shields:
    Basically cold slabs of metal floating in space with a laser com and some cold gas maneuver jet. A Whipple shield is designed to be deployed en masse around any orbital, or even planetary defenses, to deflect long range bombardment while remaining undetectable at the same ranges.
     
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    I think we ought to expand on our carrier force. So far, most of our carriers are retrofitted merchantmen, which while currently effective, will decrease in effectiveness as we fight bigger and badder enemies.

    In this case, I propose we make a frigate-carrier. We probably need to design a new hull from the ground up, but I bet our experience in carrier op should give us a bonus.
    Though we probably shouldn't expect anything in 1 to 2 turns at the least.
     
    Here's the preliminary design plan I had in mind:

    [ ] Plan: The War in the Void
    -[ ] (Void Infantry/Armor) Calavar-pattern Chem Cannon: While burning Promethium is among the most iconic of the Imperium's tools with which to dispense death to the enemies of Humanity, it is at its core only as effective as the enemy is vulnerable to fire. Chem cannons are a superlative means of area denial and strongpoint elimination, regretfully limited by the Imperial Guard's lack of widespread chemical protection equipment. Troops in Preserver suits or Shelter Armor are not so vulnerable to friendly fire in this manner, and the environments they are called to fight in are not always conducive to incendiary armaments. As well, the Imperial Guard's Banewolves are available for construction save for their infamous munitions. The delivery method itself is quite simple, the only true obstacle is developing a serviceable mixture.
    -[ ] (Strikecraft) Savior S-2: While the Savior has proven to be an effective multirole aerospace frame, it is not yet to the standards that the Admiralty have become accustomed to with Lexicalum imported Furies, most notably in its range. In terms of the mechanics, distances, and timeframes that void combat is fought in, pilot endurance becomes the core limitation to the craft's performance. The S-2 model of Savior endeavors to rectify this by means of a modified cockpit that will be flooded before launch, shielding the pilot from G-forces by means of fluid immersion. The pilot's helmets will plug into the craft itself, through which they are supplied oxygen, nutrients, water, and stimulants by an onboard supply of such during the flight. With an augmented capacity to withstand the stresses of high power maneuvers, the engines are also tuned for greater performance.
    -[ ] (Defense) Thunderhead Disruptor Array: While the Thunderclap was rather disappointing as a lance, new avenues of research to pursue have been uncovered by this first attempt to develop our own domestically produced void combat scale direct energy weapons. In particular, the properties of the energy transfer on target have aroused some speculation. In any case, the weapon is much too large in its current state to be serviceable, so the first stage of development for the Thunderhead array is to attempt to miniaturize the weapon to a scale not much larger than conventional point defense guns. While such would make the weapon useless against true voidships, it would allow the Thunderclap to be used as a point defense weapon, especially if the energy transfer were to be enhanced, to say nothing of the possibility of mounting such weapons to smaller platforms than warships...
    -[ ] (Boarding Craft) Narwhale Breacher Craft: The first dedicated boarding craft developed in the Crusade, the Narwhale outwardly bears a great deal of resemblance to the Harbinger Transport, because it uses the same hull configuration. Internal space has been sacrificed to add additional reinforcement to the superstructure, more powerful engines, and even install a small Void Shield. An array of hull cutters is affixed to the prow to force entry onto an enemy vessel and deliver its cargo of boarding parties.

    I feel we are at the stage where it would be beneficial to give some upgrades to things other than warships. Our current fleet lineup is for the moment in a good placce in terms of tech, so I'd advocate improving our own strikecraft, really work on making the Saviors good enough that we can keep using them for a long time, as well as getting our first boarding craft done. The chem cannon will be an improvement to both our Void Infantry and Armored units, with the PD module as something for the future.
     
    mithril-blade said:
    I think our Escort Carrier might be the biggest thing that we bring to the table as due to Mechanicum politics going heavily for carriers is hard for a normal Imperial Navy. I think that perhaps "modernizing" our Escort Carriers to have have more repair facilities and maybe even manufacturing components would be a good idea.
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    The escort grade carriers we've been throwing around don't really have the space for that, I think? Well, there is the repair deck but I meant more the manufacturing idea. I also feel driven to point out that basically none of the local powers, baring Gehault, can be said to akin to the normal imperial navy.

    Sir_Travelsalot said:
    I feel we are at the stage where it would be beneficial to give some upgrades to things other than warships.
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    I'm still utterly non-enthused at the idea of voting for a boarding thing without also making a part to provide boarding troops.
     
    Hydra class sprint missiles: (PD Add one)
    Simple tube style launchers containing a multitude of small sprint missiles to engage ordinance and strikecraft attached to the PD turrets as a one time surprise against any hostile groupings of such things.

    Whats our current PD anyway?
     
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    Happerry said:
    I'm still utterly non-enthused at the idea of voting for a boarding thing without also making a part to provide boarding troops.
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    Hey, we are starting to launch bigger vessels for the fleet. We will be able to provide a significant force of marines for boarding actions, so we won't be lacking in that department.
    Besides, we will get into boarding actions as we continue our crusade. Might as well look into while we got nothing really going on.

    Have we produce a class of frigate to replace the Indomitable? I know we got a lance equipped frigate, but have we got one with just macrocannons?
     
    DaLintyGuy said:
    The Chem bombs will be good for everything, ground techs are simpler than Void remember? So bombers get it for a ground attack option, sealed infantry can use it, etc.

    Although, what kind of payload do you see it firing? Chemical agent or corrosive?
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    I mean, the Imperial Chem Cannon is described as spraying a gas that liquifies exposed biological matter into slurry. So something in that direction, I'd imagine. Corrosive might eat through the suits.
     
    Sir_Travelsalot said:
    Nothing. We don't have any sort of PD module.
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    Actually, our current PD could be best described as 'intercept whatever it is with fighters'. This is one of the reasons all our Naval Squadrons have an attached carrier.

    Sgtsoldier123 said:
    Hey, we are starting to launch bigger vessels for the fleet. We will be able to provide a significant force of marines for boarding actions, so we won't be lacking in that department.
    Besides, we will get into boarding actions as we continue our crusade. Might as well look into while we got nothing really going on.
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    I do not expect that larger ships will casually give enough forces to operate offensively in boarding instead of just needing to use the expanded marine presence to help defend the larger area that needs defending without an actual part for supporting boarding troops.

    Not that any suggested plan has a light cruiser design in it right now anyway, so...

    Anyway, here's my suggested plan, which goes back and gives us a better housing module to help defend against all the enemy boarding attempts, a better warp drive to better support operations over our expanding operation area, an energy battery we can pair with our normal battery because it has longer range and messes with the enemy when it hits them, and also I stole the Chem-Cannon idea.

    [ ]Plan Fundamentals
    -[ ] (Void Infantry/Armor) Calavar-pattern Chem Cannon: While burning Promethium is among the most iconic of the Imperium's tools with which to dispense death to the enemies of Humanity, it is at its core only as effective as the enemy is vulnerable to fire. Chem cannons are a superlative means of area denial and strongpoint elimination, regretfully limited by the Imperial Guard's lack of widespread chemical protection equipment. Troops in Preserver suits or Shelter Armor are not so vulnerable to friendly fire in this manner, and the environments they are called to fight in are not always conducive to incendiary armaments. As well, the Imperial Guard's Banewolves are available for construction save for their infamous munitions. The delivery method itself is quite simple, the only true obstacle is developing a serviceable mixture.
    -[ ] (Housing) 'Bastion' housing complex. Further experience with ship building has allowed for more effective placement of ratings and deckhands living space; giving better 'elbow room' while keeping mass and space costs low. As an additional benefit, this redesign includes security garrisons at vital locations (reactor, warp drive etc) to counter on-board rebellions or boarding attempts.
    -[ ] (Weapon) Thunderstorm Disruption Battery: While the Thunderclap was a rather disappointing first generation experiment in ionized particle weapons, it did offer proof of concept and unveil new avenues of development. In particular, the properties of the energy transfer on target have aroused some speculation and interest. While the Thunderclap was a failure at getting a lance scale weapon out, some have thought 'well, why not make it a battery then?'. And so they utilized the same particle acceleration principles as used in the lance in mass bank arrays, using a higher number of expected impacts and repeated attacks to both damage the enemy with ravening particle bursts and cause disrupting havoc throughout as the charges electrocute stuff that should not be covered in electricity.
    (Targeted Stats, At least Battery 1, Medium Range, Disruption tag.)
    -[ ] (Warp drive) 'Longstride' Warp engine. While the typical drive utilized in merchant shipping suffices, the minimal use of technology and advanced components to save costs caused them to have slow charge times, greatly limited speed through the Warp and not being suited for fast/emergency jumps. The Longstride was Calavar's first attempt at improving their engines to something closer to what is utilized on Imperial Navy ships.
     
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