Blood, Sweat, and Tears (WH40k Design Bureau)

I mean it is able to be stepped on by a Titan and keep the wearer alive.
That is also less impresseive than it sounds, as all you have to do is be harder than the ground you stand on.

Of course the loyalists found out the hard way during the Heresy that there were some limitations to their shiny super-heavy armor plate. Namely that they aren't nearly as agile as they normally are* while in said walking tanks which the traitor legions took full advantage of.

*Heck I've seen bits that stated if the Terminator suit ever loses power, the marine would barely be able to move the armor.
Sounds about right. Terminator is probably about as fast as a jogging man at full sprint.

And that's not even touching on Custodes exclusive wargear like Adrathic weapons. Dark Energy Guns, that even the Admech isn't allowed to realize exist, let alone that the Golden Boys' private armorers still know how to make them.
Or the funky fusion bolt rounds the Custodes use.

People say the Imperium is primitive. This is true. It is also true that the best M40 tech versus the best Tau tech is simply no contest as the archeaotech starts at gravity guns, goes to antimatter conversion, passes whatever the zog torsion weapons are (manipulated space-time maybe?), and can end at quantum tunneling used for instant manufacture of war machines on site (one interpretation of STC templates means they are as hard to interpret as they are because they list the position of every atom in the object, for example).

That's true for the Indomitus-pattern and the ones that preceded it. But the most advanced model, the one that would've eventually been made the standard armor of space marines if the Heresy hadn't happened? Tartaros-pattern Terminator armor didn't impede your range of motion at all.
Range of motion, or speed?
 
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Sounds about right. Terminator is probably about as fast as a jogging man at full sprint.
Of course there is a second problem when the terminator is at said full sprint; namely turning or stopping without something to serve as a 'break'. Because these are rather massive pieces of equipment no matter the pattern of armor and as the line goes: "Objects in motion tends to stay in motion".
 
@Happerry, what do you think of a Tank Hunter Army?
Core: Elite Infantry
Attachments: Heavy Weapons Teams, Power Armor Infantry, and Motorized infantry
We send these against enemies that have superheavy armor like Baneblades or Killa Kans. Also what do people think about Rotary Lascannons for dealing with hevay armor?
 
-[] Retrofit AMM-8 to a Lance Armed Merchant Marine (LAMM) (16M, 1A)
- Replace Self Defense Battery with Farstrike Lance (4M, 1 A), Merchant Engines with Militarized Engine (4M), Navigational Shields with Haptrix-Pattern Rapid Shields (5M), and Hull Armor with Scaffold Armor (3M)
-[] Retrofit AMM-1 and AMM-2 to Modernized Escort Carrier (28M)
- Replace Self Defense Battery with Standard Macrocannon Battery MkI (3M), Navigational Shields with Haptrix-Pattern Rapid Shields (5M), and Hull Armor with a Cove-pattern Hanger + Savior S-1 Multirole (6M)
The cost of the LAMM refit is getting close to the cost of building new ships(i think 25M,1A to build the LAMM,
On a merchant hull you do not need the Cove-pattern Hanger, you can use the cheaper cargo hanger.

@DaLintyGuy is this a valid design?
-[] Bulk Hauler Frame Langley 22M 1A
-Hull: Rebuilt Bulk Hauler (3U,1W,1D,1E,1O)
- Utility: 1x Cargo Hangar w/ Savior S-1 Multirole (2M)
- Utility: 1x Cargo Hangar w/ Savior S-1 Multirole (2M)
- Utility: 1x Cargo Hangar w/ Savior S-1 Multirole (2M)
- Weapon: Cove-pattern Hanger w/ Savior S-1 Multirole (5M)
- Defense: Haptrix-Pattern Rapid Shields 4M
- Omni: Scaffold Armor (Armor 1.5) (2M)
- Engine: Tuned Merchant Thrusters 1M
- Bridge: Merchant (1M)
- Sensors: Sensors: T-100 (2M)
- Life Support: Expansive
- Housing: Barracks
- Warp: Merchant
- Servitor Defense Stations 1M 1A
 
@Happerry, what do you think of a Tank Hunter Army?
Unless it's meant to be hunting titans I think that's below the scale of what we build armies on. You have tank hunter units, not entire tank hunting armies. We also don't have a Heavy Weapons Teams attachment, so I'm not sure what you'd intend that to do? Especially given as you've indicated you want our homebrew power armor assigned to the unit, which already serve to bring crew served weapons into the fight. Neither is there an Elite Infantry core, for that matter.

The cost of the LAMM refit is getting close to the cost of building new ships(i think 25M,1A to build the LAMM,
It's replacing around half the parts, so costing around half of what it would to build a new ship isn't a surprise. I'm not really sure what the point of this statement is though. Are you complaining about the 50% ish discount compared to building a fresh hull (while also getting an AMM out of one of our line combat units), or complementing it?

On a merchant hull you do not need the Cove-pattern Hanger, you can use the cheaper cargo hanger.
Fair point. The Cove does have the magnetic launching system and superior compartmentalization, however, which is why I chose to use it instead of the cargo hanger, as it has a lot less chance of having a giant ammo or fuel explosion go off in the middle of our ship. Also, with how the tech document is formatted, I'm unsure if we can put the Savior in the cargo hanger as it's only noted under the Cove, while the Cargo Hanger has the Combat Lighter and Heavy Transport noted under it?

@DaLintyGuy is that a restriction or just a formatting thing?
 
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It's replacing around half the parts, so costing around half of what it would to build a new ship isn't a surprise. I'm not really sure what the point of this statement is though. Are you complaining about the 50% ish discount compared to building a fresh hull (while also getting an AMM out of one of our line combat units), or complementing it?
If we can build a new one for 9M more and refit this ship to a escort carrier we will only spend a bit more and end up with two decent ships.

On a side note, Crippled ships are being folded into the Retrofitting rules. Due to the damage they have taken they do not take the cost to remove modules and as they are completely shot up they will only be available the turn after they are begun to be rebuilt.
But i forgot about the rules for refitting crippled ships so it will be 4M less to refit it.
This is missing from the mechanics post

If we refit four parts that cost 1M each with 4 other parts costing 4M do we pay
50% of 1M + 1M = 1.5M rounds to 2M x4 = 8M
or
50% of 1M + 1M = 1.5M x4 x4 = 6M
 
If we can build a new one for 9M more and refit this ship to a escort carrier we will only spend a bit more and end up with two decent ships.
If I had 9M more in the budget I'd consider doing a newbuild, but where am I to get that? Also I don't really feel the need to do another carrier conversion when my plan already has two of them, well, planned, especially compared to making sure both the 2nd and 3rd Naval Squadron have lance access.

Edit : My apologies for the original version of this being unneedfully snippy.

By the way, doesn't this ship costing 41M mean it won't be ready until next turn? Since IIRC, we have a per ship per turn manufacturing limit of 40M.
I'm starting to think we need a FAQ post... As Warmachine has said, the limit only applies to components, not ammo or attached combat parasites.

Edit : Also, putting this copy of my plan up so it's easy to find when DaLintyGuy wakes up and confirms we all can vote now.

[] Plan Docks, Refits, and Armies Mk2
-[] Drydock Construction (60M)
-[] General Repairs (32M)
-[] Voidwright Repairs (9M)
-[] 1x Broadside Class Terrestrial Defense (6M) (Former Khornate Hive World)
- Hull: Terrestrial Battery (4M)
- Weapon: Standard Macrocannon Battery MkI (2M)
-[] 1x "Long Arm" class War Hawk (41M, 3A) (2nd Naval Squadron)
- Hull: War Hawk-class Heavy Frigate Hull mk II (8M)
- Weapon: Farstrike Lance (3M, 1A)
- Weapon: Farstrike Lance (3M, 1A)
- Weapon: Standard Macrocannon Battery MkI (2M)
- Defense: Haptrix-Pattern Rapid Shields (Shield 2, .5 Armor.) (4M)
- Defense: Scaffold Armor (Armor 1.5) (2M)
- Utility: Repair Deck (2M)
- Engine: Militarized Engine (Acceleration 2, Maneuver 2, Fuel Efficient) (3M)
- Bridge: Groupsight Combat Bridge (4M)
- Sensors: T-100 Auspex (2M)
- Warp: Merchant (4M)
- LS: Essential (2M) + Servitor Defense Stations (1M, 1A)
- Housing: Barracks (1M)
-[] Retrofit the Indomitable with Servitor Defense Stations (1M, 1A)
-[] Produce 5x Thermo-Cavitation Shells attachments for the ammo stockpile. (5M 5A)
-[] Retrofit AMM-8 to a Lance Armed Merchant Marine (LAMM) (16M, 1A)
- Replace Self Defense Battery with Farstrike Lance (4M, 1 A), Merchant Engines with Militarized Engine (4M), Navigational Shields with Haptrix-Pattern Rapid Shields (5M), and Hull Armor with Scaffold Armor (3M)
-[] Retrofit AMM-1 and AMM-2 to Modernized Escort Carrier (28M)
- Replace Self Defense Battery with Standard Macrocannon Battery MkI (3M), Navigational Shields with Haptrix-Pattern Rapid Shields (5M), and Hull Armor with a Cove-pattern Hanger + Savior S-1 Multirole (6M)
-[] Train 2 Calavar Pattern Bridgehead Armies (4M)
-Foot Infantry (2M), Heavy Artillery (0M), Sappers (0M), Elite Infantry (0M)
-[] Train 2 Calavar Pattern Siege Armies (4M)
-Foot Infantry (2M), Heavy Artillery (0M), Sappers (0M), Additional Foot Infantry (0M)
-[] Train 2 Calavar Pattern Defense Armies (4M)
-Foot Infantry (2M), Military Police (0M), Engineers (0M), Heavy Artillery (0M)
-[] Train 1 Calavar Pattern Shield Army (4M)
-Foot Infantry (2M), Elite Infantry (0M), Combat Exoskeletons (2M), Engineers (0M)
-[] Train 1 Calavar Pattern Holy Shield Army (2M)
-Foot Infantry (2M), Sisters of Battle (0M), Engineers (0M), Elite Infantry (0M)
-[] Train 2 Calavar Pattern Assault Armies (16M)
-Mechanized Infantry (6M), Armor (1M), Mechanized Cavalry (1M), Elite Infantry (0M)
-[] Train 1 Calavar Pattern Void Army (9)
-Void Infantry (8M), Elite Infantry, Engineers, Combat Exoskeletons (2M)
 
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-[] Retrofit AMM-8 to a Lance Armed Merchant Marine (LAMM) (16M, 1A)
- Replace Self Defense Battery with Farstrike Lance (4M, 1 A), Merchant Engines with Militarized Engine (4M), Navigational Shields with Haptrix-Pattern Rapid Shields (5M), and Hull Armor with Scaffold Armor (3M)
There is a possible combat issue with this refit as is. AMMs have default bridges and merchant sensors, given that the Lance is a medium range precision fire weapon that seems likely to reduce performance quite a bit.
 
Feeling awake enough to write a plan.
First i am going to look at where we want to deploy to this turn:
The patrol squadrons will stay where they are.
Honma is going to need a squadron to support the ground troops
The Hive we are fighting for is going to need a patrol squadron to guard it
Latvia is going to need help with keeping the orcs down
The auxillary squadron is attacking the space hulk with a void army
We want ground armies for at least 2 of these places if possible all three
Reorganizing squadrons is also done during this vote.


We have 3 naval squadrons and the support squadron not yet deployed
One naval squadron to each with the support helping somewhere will work but leave only the 2 torpedo squadrons for offensives.
We have 240M to spend
[] Plan Dock, refits and langley
-[] Drydock Construction (60M)
-[] General Repairs (32M)
-[] Voidwright Repairs (9M) + Refit: 2x cargo 2x Cargo Hangar w/ Savior S-1 Multirole (4M) Militarized Engine (3M), Haptrix-Pattern Rapid Shields (4M), T100 sensors 2M = 13M
-[] Produce 5x Thermo-Cavitation Shells attachments for the ammo stockpile. (5M 5A)
-[] 40M worth of armies(to be added once the guard gear cost is known)
-[] 1x "Long Arm" class War Hawk (41M, 3A) (2nd Naval Squadron)
- Hull: War Hawk-class Heavy Frigate Hull mk II (8M)
- Weapon: Farstrike Lance (3M, 1A)
- Weapon: Farstrike Lance (3M, 1A)
- Weapon: Standard Macrocannon Battery MkI (2M)
- Defense: Haptrix-Pattern Rapid Shields (Shield 2, .5 Armor.) (4M)
- Defense: Scaffold Armor (Armor 1.5) (2M)
- Utility: Repair Deck (2M)
- Engine: Militarized Engine (Acceleration 2, Maneuver 2, Fuel Efficient) (3M)
- Bridge: Groupsight Combat Bridge (4M)
- Sensors: T-100 Auspex (2M)
- Warp: Merchant (4M)
- LS: Essential (2M) + Servitor Defense Stations (1M, 1A)
- Housing: Barracks (1M)
-[] Bulk Hauler Frame Langley 21M add to the third naval squadron
-Hull: Rebuilt Bulk Hauler (3U,1W,1D,1E,1O)
- Utility: 1x Cargo Hangar w/ Savior S-1 Multirole (2M)
- Utility: 1x Cargo Hangar w/ Savior S-1 Multirole (2M)
- Utility: 1x Cargo Hangar w/ Savior S-1 Multirole (2M)
- Weapon: Cove-pattern Hanger w/ Savior S-1 Multirole (5M)
- Defense: Haptrix-Pattern Rapid Shields 4M
- Omni: Scaffold Armor (Armor 1.5) (2M)
- Engine: Tuned Merchant Thrusters 1M
- Bridge: Merchant (1M)
- Sensors: Sensors: T-100 (2M)
- Life Support: Expansive
- Housing: Barracks
- Warp: Merchant
-[] swap the CLV-3 Starhawk/Furies with Savior S-1 from the Langley
-[] move the CVL-3 Fugax Cymba (Escort Carrier) to the 1st support squadron
-[] replace Scorn-Class Bombardment Ship Harbringers with Savior S-1 Multirole 1M
-[] refit the cannons and armor of the AMM-2 Starstrider, AMM-8 Camilla's Courier Cruiser IV, AMM-5 The Itinerant to 2x cargo bays w/ Savior S-1 Multirole 5M each 15M
-[] refit 2 custom monitors with Standard Macrocannon Battery MkI (5M)

The new frigate in the 2nd naval squadron will more then make up for loosing both AMM's
The Langley with the additional fighter squadrons, stronger armor and shields will make up for the escort carrier and the AMM(i can put marcocannons/a lance in the weapon slot if more firepower is desired)
With a escort carrier and a 3th Savior S-1 Multirole squadron on the bombardment ship the 1st support squadron has enough firepower to serve as the guards for the hive system where the saviors can help with the ground war if there are no attacks freeing up naval squadron for deployment elsewhere.

The torpedo squadrons can join the locations where combat is likely, i hope to deploy a naval squadron to Bagalog to talk about merging our empires/an alliance but that is a vote for the strategic phase that follows this vote.

initial army setup:
-[] Train 1 Calavar Pattern Void Army (10M)
-Void Infantry (8M), Elite Infantry(0M), Sisters of Battle (0M), Combat Exoskeletons (2M)
-[] Train 3 Calavar Pattern Defense Armies (6M)
-Foot Infantry (2M), Military Police (0M), Cavalry (0M), Heavy Artillery (0M)
-[] Train 1 Fighter Army (5M): An Army worth of Savior Multirole Fighters. (5M)
-[] Train 1 Armored (8M), Heavy Artillery (0M), Elite Infantry(0M), Mech Infantry (1M) = (9M)
-[] Train 2 Calavar Pattern Bridgehead Armies (4M)
-Foot Infantry (2M), Heavy Artillery (0M), Sappers (0M), Elite Infantry (0M)
-[] The Ashen Legion (1/5 XP)(Experienced) add Elite Infantry(0M)
-[] 1st Calavar Armored Army add Air Support (1M) and Mechanized Cavalry (1M) = (2M)
I recall something about a 10M omake bonus for systems near our starting world if that is added i am planning on spending that on more armies.
If that is the case:
-[] Train 1 Calavar Pattern Defense Armies (2M)
-Foot Infantry (2M), Military Police (0M), Cavalry (0M), Heavy Artillery (0M)
-[] Train 4 Calavar Pattern Bridgehead Armies (8M)
-Foot Infantry (2M), Heavy Artillery (0M), Sappers (0M), Elite Infantry (0M)
 
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There are also 2 armies that can get additional attachments:

The Ashen Legion (1/5 XP)(Experienced)
-Made up of Feudal Worlders with inconsistent weaponry, ranging from swords to Guard issue lasguns to xenotech recovered from the Hashim that pushed them off their home worlds. Led by the Star Knight, a nameless woman clad in dark armor bearing the names of her many fallen comrades and carrying a shining power lance that can double as a long sword.
-Guarded refugees recovered from Ungaunst turn three, settling with them on Bailafax.
-Core: Feudal Levies
-Attachments: Xenotech, Cavalry
I am thinking Elite infantry for this one.

1st Calavar Armored Army (IG Standard w/ Malcador Defender detachment) (2/3 XP)
-Raised second turn, expunged Khornate cultists from Bailafax turn three, participated in the purge of Uniary turn four
-Core: Guard Armored
-Attachments: Calavan Defenders
i am planning on adding:
Air Support (1M): Organic air assets, ranging between fighters, bombers, and transports.
And one of these two:
Heavy Artillery: Upgrades an Army with an increased Artillery presence. Can range from heavy mortars at the platoon level to mobile siege guns for breaking fortresses.
Mechanized Cavalry (1M): Light vehicles such as Sentinels and armored cars for reconnaissance and skirmishing.

I recall something about a 10M omake bonus for systems near our starting world if that is added i am planning on spending that on more armies.
 
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Dug this up from earlier in the Quest, to be added to the Design Action bin I suppose.

(Engine) Plasma Pulse Drive Array: One means of increasing the thrust of the merchant grade drives is to compress the expelled plasma and propel it through a narrower aperture in the drive nozzle. Such would even theoretically allow the new drives to retain much of the original's fuel efficiency, more so than simply making the drives bigger. The only complication to doing so is the increased thermal stress on the components, which made long burns infeasible without access to more advanced materials. Instead, the reduced size has been taken advantage of to include a greater amount of thrusters in the drive assembly, firing in short pulses in tandem to facilitate greater speed without risk of melting the drive. Because of the smaller size, each nozzle can now also be mounted on a gimbal, which allows for greater fine maneuvering mid-burn.
 
1st Calavar Armored Army (IG Standard w/ Malcador Defender detachment) (2/3 XP)
-Raised second turn, expunged Khornate cultists from Bailafax turn three, participated in the purge of Uniary turn four
-Core: Guard Armored
-Attachments: Calavan Defenders
i am planning on adding:
Air Support (1M): Organic air assets, ranging between fighters, bombers, and transports.
And one of these two:
Heavy Artillery: Upgrades an Army with an increased Artillery presence. Can range from heavy mortars at the platoon level to mobile siege guns for breaking fortresses.
Mechanized Cavalry (1M): Light vehicles such as Sentinels and armored cars for reconnaissance and skirmishing.

I recall something about a 10M omake bonus for systems near our starting world if that is added i am planning on spending that on more armies.
I'd say go for the Mechanized Cavalry, Malcador Defenders already have fortress breaking guns in the form of hull-mounted Demolisher Cannons.
 
I'd say go for the Mechanized Cavalry, Malcador Defenders already have fortress breaking guns in the form of hull-mounted Demolisher Cannons.
What does Guard Armored have exactly? I feel that an infantry screen to protect the Demolishers while they break bunkers in Urban combat would be ideal so enemies can't destroy it with an IED or something.

@DaLintyGuy, how does the Russ MBT compares to the Defenders? with the IG gear we are now able to make, is it better to just make Lemans or Defenders?
 
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What does Guard Armored have exactly? I feel that an infantry screen to protect the Demolishers while they break bunkers in Urban combat would be ideal so enemies can't destroy it with an IED or something.

@DaLintyGuy, how does the Russ MBT compares to the Defenders? with the IG gear we are now able to make, is it better to just make Lemans or Defenders?
The Armored Core comes with supporting Mechanized Infantry, Leman Russ MBT's, a couple of Hellhounds and SPG's like Basilisks and Griffons.

As for the Defenders, they're meant for different roles. The Russ is meant to be an MBT, while the Malcador Defender is a breakthrough/heavy infantry tank, with a big gun for destroying fortifications and a whopping 7 heavy bolters for infantry deterrents.
 
So making Defenders for the Siege army would be preferable to Lemans especially in Hive combat right?
 
@DaLintyGuy is this a valid design?
-[] Bulk Hauler Frame Langley 22M 1A
-Hull: Rebuilt Bulk Hauler (3U,1W,1D,1E,1O)
- Utility: 1x Cargo Hangar w/ Savior S-1 Multirole (2M)
- Utility: 1x Cargo Hangar w/ Savior S-1 Multirole (2M)
- Utility: 1x Cargo Hangar w/ Savior S-1 Multirole (2M)
- Weapon: Cove-pattern Hanger w/ Savior S-1 Multirole (5M)
- Defense: Haptrix-Pattern Rapid Shields 4M
- Omni: Scaffold Armor (Armor 1.5) (2M)
- Engine: Tuned Merchant Thrusters 1M
- Bridge: Merchant (1M)
- Sensors: Sensors: T-100 (2M)
- Life Support: Expansive
- Housing: Barracks
- Warp: Merchant
- Servitor Defense Stations 1M 1A
As the Bulk Hauler is subject to the Light Cruiser rules, no.
@DaLintyGuy is that a restriction or just a formatting thing?
Formatting.
Edit : Also, putting this copy of my plan up so it's easy to find when DaLintyGuy wakes up and confirms we all can vote now.
Voting is open.
@DaLintyGuy, how does the Russ MBT compares to the Defenders? with the IG gear we are now able to make, is it better to just make Lemans or Defenders?
They have different roles. The default Russ is an MBT whereas the Malcador Defender is a Heavy Infantry Tank meant for linebreaking and strongpoint reduction.
I'm pretty sure we have to take a design action to make more, the Defenders we had were from old PDF stockpiles.
Copying widespread armored vehicles does not need a Design action now that you have the various Stuff for baseline IG vehicles.
 
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As the Bulk Hauler is subject to the Light Cruiser rules, no.
Would the cost be:
[] Bulk Hauler Frame Langley 70M
-Hull: Rebuilt Bulk Hauler (3U,1W,1D,1E,1O)
- Utility: 1x Cargo Hangar w/ Savior S-1 Multirole (2x3=6M)
- Utility: 1x Cargo Hangar w/ Savior S-1 Multirole (2x3=6M)
- Utility: 1x Cargo Hangar w/ Savior S-1 Multirole (2x3=6M)
- Weapon: Standard Macrocannon Battery MkI (2x3=6M)
- Defense: Haptrix-Pattern Rapid Shields 4x3x2=24M
- Omni: Scaffold Armor (Armor 1.5) (2x3=6M)
- Engine: Tuned Merchant Thrusters 1x4M
- Bridge: Merchant (1x4M)
- Sensors: Sensors: T-100 (2x4=8M)
- Life Support: Expansive
- Housing: Barracks
- Warp: Merchant

Edit added the doubling of shield costs
 
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Would the cost be:
[] Bulk Hauler Frame Langley 58M
-Hull: Rebuilt Bulk Hauler (3U,1W,1D,1E,1O)
- Utility: 1x Cargo Hangar w/ Savior S-1 Multirole (2x3=6M)
- Utility: 1x Cargo Hangar w/ Savior S-1 Multirole (2x3=6M)
- Utility: 1x Cargo Hangar w/ Savior S-1 Multirole (2x3=6M)
- Weapon: Standard Macrocannon Battery MkI (2x3=6M)
- Defense: Haptrix-Pattern Rapid Shields 4x3=12M
- Omni: Scaffold Armor (Armor 1.5) (2x3=6M)
- Engine: Tuned Merchant Thrusters 1x4M
- Bridge: Merchant (1x4M)
- Sensors: Sensors: T-100 (2x4=8M)
- Life Support: Expansive
- Housing: Barracks
- Warp: Merchant
Yes. Though the Haptrix doubles again in cost due to what it is.
 
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