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Blood, Sweat, and Tears (WH40k Design Bureau)

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jwolfe_beta said:
One thing I'd like to know is how 'proper' IN ships are laid out in terms of module types, numbers etc. Because the Heavy Frigate we came up with was apparently a case of overreaching (considering the -1 from module numbers).
Also with the appropriate research would it be possible for us to get around this problem (IE have more modules on a given hull size without penalties)?
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To be honest, the War Hawk hull is pretty typical for a navy getting it's feet under them. Give us some time and we will produce a more effective frigate from the lessons learned on the Indomitable.
 
jwolfe_beta said:
Don't worry. It happens.

One thing I'd like to know is how 'proper' IN ships are laid out in terms of module types, numbers etc. Because the Heavy Frigate we came up with was apparently a case of overreaching (considering the -1 from module numbers).
Also with the appropriate research would it be possible for us to get around this problem (IE have more modules on a given hull size without penalties)?
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The Sword class Hull for the IN is 2W,3D,1E (and has the Reinforced tag but nevermind). It is an old and optimized design used the galaxy over. The War Hawk was envisioned as 3W,2D,1E,2U, or two more slots in total, while being from a world that had only recently begun building warships and had done nothing of the scale before (which was the biggest factor here to be fair).
Now, it is entirely possible that the Sword is a case of "nothing more to take away" rather than "nothing more to add" but we can't be sure and it only lightly impacts this discussion.

Generally to get around it you keep tossing actions at the problem. Revising and refining a design through a lengthy development process that in peacetime can take centuries. The more reliable way to do so is to Specialize module slots on a Hull, locking a Weapon slot to Macrocannons or Torpedoes for example. This can give a varying number of benefits, the most simple of such is a simple bonus to effectiveness but can also be made to do slightly weaker versions of things that would be Utility modules. Deep magazines or capacitor banks for benefits that aren't strictly "more powerful attacks".

Sgtsoldier123 said:
To be honest, the War Hawk hull is pretty typical for a navy getting it's feet under them. Give us some time and we will produce a more effective frigate from the lessons learned on the Indomitable.
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This is a good part of it, yes.
 
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DaLintyGuy said:
Generally to get around it you keep tossing actions at the problem. Revising and refining a design through a lengthy development process that in peacetime can take centuries. The more reliable way to do so is to Specialize module slots on a Hull, locking a Weapon slot to Macrocannons or Torpedoes for example. This can give a varying number of benefits, the most simple of such is a simple bonus to effectiveness but can also be made to do slightly weaker versions of things that would be Utility modules. Deep magazines or capacitor banks for benefits that aren't strictly "more powerful attacks".
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So to make the War Hawk into the Falchion that I was drawing inspiration from, it'd be locking a weapon slot to torpedoes, and locking one defense slot to armor. These would give it bonuses, and doing so for any future hulls?
 
Have we designed any planetary defense monitors? The ones that are basically corvettes without a warp drive so they can at least fight in high orbit, unlike stationary defense platforms?
 
Rockeye said:
Have we designed any planetary defense monitors? The ones that are basically corvettes without a warp drive so they can at least fight in high orbit, unlike stationary defense platforms?
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System defense monitors are things we could build, but it's not that much more expensive to build full-on warships right now that are much more useful. This will likely remain the case until we've got something in the ballpark of a Light Cruiser.
 
DaLintyGuy said:
Bonuses for that specific hull. Could you explain that second part better? As it is easier to do something you have already done, yes, but it obviously won't directly affect things you design afterwards.
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As in, when we design new hulls in the future, do we get bonuses or mitigate penalties for modules by specializing them from the start, or do we need to do it all incrementally like we're now going to do with the War Hawk?
 
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Sir_Travelsalot said:
As in, when we design new hulls in the future, do we get bonuses or mitigate penalties for modules by specializing them from the start, or do we need to do it all incrementally like we're going to do with the War Hawk?
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Specializing is best done at the start, as it is a reasonably large portion of the overall hull that is being designed to support the module in ancillary ways.
 
Sir_Travelsalot said:
or do we need to do it all incrementally like we're now going to do with the War Hawk?
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Better to just do a new hull in my opinion. The War Hawk is serviceable as is, so better a new design with stuff baked in from the initial premises.

...Also, does anyone else want to try doing a Cobra Class Hull reverse engineering design action next turn, given we're now taking one of those apart and so should have a lot of data on it, even with orky 'improvements'?

Edit : On another point, I find this math questionable.
DaLintyGuy said:
The Sword class Hull for the IN is 2W,3D,1E (and has the Reinforced tag but nevermind). It is an old and optimized design used the galaxy over. The War Hawk was envisioned as 3W,2D,1E,2U, or three more slots in total,
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That's only two additional slots, not three.
 
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Happerry said:
...Also, does anyone else want to try doing a Cobra Class Hull reverse engineering design action next turn, given we're now taking one of those apart and so should have a lot of data on it, even with orky 'improvements'?
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You have a +2 to a Torpedo specialized hull from the Harvest's Day, yes.

Happerry said:
That's only two additional slots, not three.
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That would be me overlooking the Engine slot, yes.
 
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DaLintyGuy said:
You have a +2 to a Torpedo specialized hull from the Harvest's Day, yes.
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Not a generic torpedo hull, something like this.

[ ] Cobra Hull Reconstruction Project : Torpedoes have repeatedly proven to be a very effective weapon for the crusade, and we're currently disassembling one of the Imperial Navy's choice torpedo hulls. Some people have seen a connection between these two facts, and are now supporting an attempt to, by using data gained from the Harvest Day, gain the schematics and other information needed to produce Cobra class craft of our own. [1 Weapon Slot, 1 Weapon Slot (Torpedoes only, Expanded Magazine), 1 Defense Slot (Reinforced, Armor Only), 1 Defense Slot, 1 Engine Slot.]
 
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Happerry said:
Not a generic torpedo hull, something like this.

[ ] Cobra Hull Reconstruction Project : Torpedoes have repeatedly proven to be a very effective weapon for the crusade, and we're currently disassembling one of the Imperial Navy's choice torpedo hulls. Some people have seen a connection between these two facts, and are now supporting an attempt to, by using data gained from the Harvest Day, gain the schematics and other information needed to produce Cobra class craft of our own. [1 Weapon Slot, 1 Weapon Slot (Torpedoes only, Expanded Magazine), 1 Armor Slot (Reinforced, Armor Only), 1 Armor Slot, 1 Engine Slot.]
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Think you meant Defense slot instead of Armor, since specifying an armor slot as armor only feels redundant.
 
Sir_Travelsalot said:
Think you meant Defense slot instead of Armor, since specifying an armor slot as armor only feels redundant.
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...Oopsies

And on another note, because unless the dice hate us hopefully we'll have lances soon...

[ ] Specialist Lance Frigate Design 'Light Saber' : With projections showing that viable lance class weaponry will soon become available to the crusade, a motion has been put forth to design a dedicated lance carrying vessel for said lances instead of doing the normal pattern of just putting them on the Sabre. This so called 'Light Saber' class vessel, named for the traditional laser lances, is to have substantial amounts of the hulls inner workings redesigned to support a dedicated Lance mount and the needed capacitors and extra power sources thereof, as well as the Spartha varient's superior defensive ability. [1 Weapon Slot, 1 Weapon Slot (Lances only, Extra/Dedicated Capacitors/Generators), 2 Defense Slots, 1 Utility Slot, 1 Engine Slot.]
 
I forgot about this technology existed, so I think the Mechanicus should be able to build this

[ ] Metal Foam Armor: With the amount of ship repairs starting to add up, a new type of modular armor that is cheaper to make and provide superior protection than previous generation of armor would help cut costs and save more lives. By introducing bubbles inside of the armor, the armor will crumple and deform which will absorb more of the impact of kinetic weapons while also providing a noticable resistance against energy weapons as the air bubbles inside the foam provide a significant degree of thermal insulation. Because it can be considered a foam, it is much lighter than conventional solid armor allowing for faster ships of the same size or larger ships of the same speed. Used in conjunction with Scaffold armor can provide a significant upgrade in the amount of protection for a relatively low price using standard plasteel alloy armor.
 
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The 3 plans all go to the same three places with similar forces but differ in their last target:
Plan Scavenging, Diplomacy, and the Cavalry:
Khornate Cult (40LY): Squatting among the wreckage of what was once a prosperous if small Hive World these Traitors seem to be more interested in hunting down the remaining civilians and soldiery than offensive actions beyond their nominal space. Serves as a source of manpower for the Khornates as a whole. Defenses are judged to be "Light". [Traitor]

Plan: Access & Asset Denial:
Civilized World Allient (40LY): Fallen to the perfidious greenskins Allient now provides for the raiding fleets sent out by it's barbarous overlords with it's maintenance platform of similar design to Calavar's. Defenses are judged to be "Light" and increasing slowly, but with mobile elements returning from attacks at unpredictable intervals. [Held by WAAAGH!! Gunbreaka]

Plan Seeking allies v2:
Space Hulk: Whereas most of these floating flotsams are simply ventilated by the patrolling Crusade warships this agglomerate has the stern of a military vessel protruding from it. Hunting it down will be a chore but it does seem to be haunting this region.
Bagalog (20LY): An opportunistic warlord has risen to power over the Civilized World of Bagalog. Nearby worlds have been yoked or willingly come to the banner of it's leader, the new leader of a middling merchant cartel by the name of Loree Mulyran. The central location and continued pleas for assistance have attracted an Explorator to the region, providing technology and manufacturing to the upcoming merchant lord for oaths of power and riches. Defenses are judged to be "Light" with a small number of newly built hulls coming from a recently operational construction dock in orbit. [Independent]

The first two plans send the 2nd torpedo squadron to support the invasion and seeking allies sends it to the Homna String Defense League
 
Warmach1ne32 said:
[ ] Metal Foam Armor: With the amount of ship repairs starting to add up, a new type of modular armor that is cheaper to make and provide superior protection than previous generation of armor would help cut costs and save more lives. By introducing bubbles inside of the armor, the armor will crumple and deform which will absorb more of the impact of kinetic weapons while also providing a noticeable resistance against energy weapons as the air bubbles inside the foam provide a significant degree of thermal insulation. Because it can be considered a foam, it is much lighter than conventional solid armor allowing for faster ships of the same size or larger ships of the same speed. Used in conjunction with Scaffold armor can provide a significant upgrade in the amount of protection for a relatively low price using standard plasteel alloy armor.
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Not exactly, if it's just the foam, the macro cannon shells would cut right through. The IRL test of metal foam armor had a layer of strong ceramic over the front (to take the initial blow) and aluminum on the back. Also the stuff would be rather annoying to create in orbit (which is where 99.95% of all 40k voidship construction would take place) because you'd need to ship in all the gasses needed to fill those bubbles.
 
jwolfe_beta said:
Not exactly, if it's just the foam, the macro cannon shells would cut right through. The IRL test of metal foam armor had a layer of strong ceramic over the front (to take the initial blow) and aluminum on the back. Also the stuff would be rather annoying to create in orbit (which is where 99.95% of all 40k voidship construction would take place) because you'd need to ship in all the gasses needed to fill those bubbles.
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There are space stations with artificial gravity so maybe attaching an arti-grav to a new section of drydock should work. Even if it uses a ceramic front with aluminium back, we could use a plasteel or another harder material as a front with a plasteel foam back. Getting increased resistance to thermal weapons like plasma or lasers passively will help our ships survive against the Hashin when we inevitable go to war with them.
 
Warmach1ne32 said:
There are space stations with artificial gravity so maybe attaching an arti-grav to a new section of drydock should work. Even if it uses a ceramic front with aluminium back, we could use a plasteel or another harder material as a front with a plasteel foam back. Getting increased resistance to thermal weapons like plasma or lasers passively will help our ships survive against the Hashin when we inevitable go to war with them.
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When it comes to something like armor and hull compositions, I feel it's probably better to give 'guidelines' for what we want and see what the dice decide. We intentionaly charge too far off the beaten track and we start getting minuses to the roll.

My first thought:
[ ] Advanced Composite armor: While the recent creation of scaffold armor ha improved survivability, the bones of our ships are still those of merchant vessels; not designed to take the stresses of combat. By re-examining the materials we can use and combining them in new ways, it should be possible to create stronger alloys then what were typically used for non-combat ships.

Because at the moment we're more or less just making thicker merchant hulls and calling it armor. We might not be able to make the Adamantium alloys used in IN ships (yet) but improving the strength of the hull, armor and keel would help.
 
Yeah I feel like getting super specific with technology descriptions is a net malus. That's what helped mess up the lance. We accidentally/intentionally went way off the beaten path when it'd be more effective to develop a lance with what we have and then sidegrade to other types.
 
I am 100% satisfied with the lance well ok I wish it'd rolled better, but the actual issue with the lance is that we rolled shit on it. The total modifier on the lance was -1, which is the exact same total modifier that the Cove Hanger, War Hawk, and Drydock possessed.

Don't mistake 'we rolled a three' for 'pushing the boundaries is bad'.
 
Space Hulks seem to range from 5km long gaints that have a atmospere of their own to three cargo haulers fused together. Do we know how large the space hulk near Calavar is?
 
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