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Blood, Sweat, and Tears (WH40k Design Bureau)

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DaLintyGuy said:
I never specified a Segmentum, even in my notes (so don't expect Swarm Fleets, Tau, or other mostly localized threats), and the period is mid-M.40. So a little pre-canon.
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I have no problem with that, what I am also curious is that are we on the edges or inside the Imperium(we can't be in Solar, too close to Holy Terra and Battlefleet Solar, not to mention we curiously 'participated' in the War of the Beast' and we would have much more importance and depending of the Segmentum we can be close to terrible things such as the Eye of Terror or in the way of future Hive Fleets).
 
primarchbr said:
I have no problem with that, what I am also curious is that are we on the edges or inside the Imperium(we can't be in Solar, too close to Holy Terra and Battlefleet Solar, not to mention we curiously 'participated' in the War of the Beast' and we would have much more importance and depending of the Segmentum we can be close to terrible things such as the Eye of Terror or in the way of future Hive Fleets).
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Closer to the edges then Terra. Space is big, and with the way I put that reference in it could have been a double handful of Orkoid detachments launching spoiler attacks in/through the region.

Hm. Actually, this game is set a good amount of time before the Tyranids even arrived, so no problem there.
Adhoc vote count started by Happerry on Apr 21, 2020 at 4:19 PM, finished with 48 posts and 6 votes.
  • [X] Plan Torpedoes and Invasion Gear Revised
    -[X] (Housing Add-On) Servitor Defense Stations: While all ships carry armsmen aboard, they are primarily meant to combat human-scale opponents and lack the strength and melee prowess of some xenos and heretic forces. Spreading stations full of combat servitors across a ship can provide some much needed heavy combat assets to oppose ork boarders or hordes of weaker enemies that seek to overwhelm crews through sheer numbers. As well, a few servitor maintenance bays are added to the larger internal defense stations to allow onboard tech priests to keep the defending cyborgs in good condition. While such defense stations lack the numbers and conversion abilities of a full on combat servitor bay, and are generally unable to support offensive boarding options, they are both cheaper and easier to fit onto a ship then said larger bays.
    -[X] (Utility) Fusion Breaker Cannons: Based on the new Calavar Pattern Standard Macrocannon Battery, the Fusion Breaker Cannons achieve superior shell size and velocity by the simple expedient of being utterly fixed in position. This allows for bracing and reinforcements unable to be used on weapons that can actually be meaningfully aimed at other ships to be applied to the guns, thus allowing their increased capability. Of course, this also makes them unable to be used against other voidcraft, but that was never their purpose in the first place. Instead, the Fusion Breaker Cannons, and their enlarged shells which now have room for Fusion Warheads taken from the broadside armament nicknamed as 'Atomic Warheads', are meant to utterly devastate ground targets. Such targets can not meaningfully run or otherwise dodge, and thus the whole ship can be adjusted to aim the Breaker Cannons at them... and then from them deliver enough firepower to give even a warboss a very bad day.
    -[X] (Weapon) 'Duet' Pattern Torpedo Launchers: Very loosely based on the atomic armed rockets of our current missile based broadside option, the 'Duet' Pattern Torpedoes, and their associated launchers, are much, much larger. Faced with the needs of stamina for long distance flight, armor to resist enemy point defense, and power to pose a threat to enemy ships, the designs of the Duet were forced to scale their designs significantly up. The price of that is that each set of the 'Duet' pattern includes only two launchers, thus launching only two torpedoes per firing cycle. But the profit is that torpedoes can be launched at all, armored enough to survive the enemy defenses, given autocannon clusters of their own to drive away enemy fighters, and with warheads big enough not only to threaten other escorts, but enemy cruisers, defense stations, and even, when sufficiently massed, the dreaded orkish space hulks.
    -[X] (Ordinance) Mass Cargo Lander Refit: While it is one of the most famous, the Arvus is not the only cargo lander in the imperium... and some are much larger. Drawing on lessons learned during our first refit of a civilian craft to combat specs, we have taken one of these larger bulk transport designs and added armor and point defense gear, as well as military grade sensors and ECM, while ensuring that each is still capable of carrying an entire company at once, as well as the companies gear and vehicles. And when working together, they can land a lot more then a single company onto enemy held planets or stations.
    [X] For Guarding and boarding
    [X](Utility) as traitor and Ork forces try to initiate boarding combat and the inevitable conflict in the ground perhaps we can adapt some industrial Exo suits for combat operations for anti boarding teams and heavy weapons in the guard, a plated Exo suit seems best for that kind of conflict, upgrading the wearer strength and allowing him to carry heavier weapons and more equipment, it would allow a soldier to fight a low-level boy in single combat and depending on training and equipment almost always win, although the plate cannot stop direct hits it can deflect and tank shrapnel
    [X] (Life Support) AirGuard Ventilation: What is, apart from expanded oxygen stores, a completely standard life support has been altered to provide a deadly last-ditch deterrent against boarding parties. If boarders have occupied a chamber, it can be isolated from the rest of the system, flooded with oxygen and have a spark introduced within. Gas baffles will disperse the explosive force without damaging internal bulkheads. It is also noted that the description of such serves as an excellent deterrent for crew mutinies.
    [X] (Weapon) 'Duet' Pattern Torpedo Launchers: Very loosely based on the atomic armed rockets of our current missile based broadside option, the 'Duet' Pattern Torpedoes, and their associated launchers, are much, much larger. Faced with the needs of stamina for long distance flight, armor to resist enemy point defense, and power to pose a threat to enemy ships, the designs of the Duet were forced to scale their designs significantly up. The price of that is that each set of the 'Duet' pattern includes only two launchers, thus launching only two torpedoes per firing cycle. But the profit is that torpedoes can be launched at all, armored enough to survive the enemy defenses, given autocannon clusters of their own to drive away enemy fighters, and with warheads big enough not only to threaten other escorts, but enemy cruisers, defense stations, and even, when sufficiently massed, the dreaded orkish space hulks.
    [X] (Weapon) Fusion Breaker Cannons: Based on the new Calavar Pattern Standard Macrocannon Battery, the Fusion Breaker Cannons achieve superior shell size and velocity by the simple expedient of being utterly fixed in position. This allows for bracing and reinforcements unable to be used on weapons that can actually be meaningfully aimed at other ships to be applied to the guns, thus allowing their increased capability. Of course, this also makes them unable to be used against other voidcraft, but that was never their purpose in the first place. Instead, the Fusion Breaker Cannons, and their enlarged shells which now have room for Fusion Warheads taken from the broadside armament nicknamed as 'Atomic Warheads', are meant to utterly devastate ground targets. Such targets can not meaningfully run or otherwise dodge, and thus the whole ship can be adjusted to aim the Breaker Cannons at them... and then from them deliver enough firepower to give even a warboss a very bad day.
    [X] Plan: C4 (Command, Control & Colossal Cannons)
    -[X] (Life Support) AirGuard Ventilation: What is, apart from expanded oxygen stores, a completely standard life support system has been altered to provide a deadly last-ditch deterrent against boarding parties. If boarders have occupied a chamber, it can be isolated from the rest of the system, flooded with oxygen and have a spark introduced within. Gas baffles will disperse the explosive force without damaging internal bulkheads. It is also noted that the description of such serves as an excellent deterrent for crew mutinies.
    -[X] (Bridge) Groupsight Bridge: Designed with future ships bearing Macrocannon and Lance Batteries in mind, this bridge improves on the shipboard weapons' fire control systems. The cogitator slaving framework has been adapted from designs of automated air defense batteries and spliced with the standard logic engines that allow a gun crew to plot a trajectory across the depths of space to its intended target. While not automating the process, reducing the gun crew's need to aim the weaponry beyond minute adjustments is projected to increase the coordination of future barrages significantly.
    -[X] (Weapon) 'Duet' Pattern Torpedo Launchers: Very loosely based on the atomic armed rockets of our current missile based broadside option, the 'Duet' Pattern Torpedoes, and their associated launchers, are much, much larger. Faced with the needs of stamina for long distance flight, armor to resist enemy point defense, and power to pose a threat to enemy ships, the designs of the Duet were forced to scale their designs significantly up. The price of that is that each set of the 'Duet' pattern includes only two launchers, thus launching only two torpedoes per firing cycle. But the profit is that torpedoes can be launched at all, armored enough to survive the enemy defenses, given autocannon clusters of their own to drive away enemy fighters, and with warheads big enough not only to threaten other escorts, but enemy cruisers, defense stations, and even, when sufficiently massed, the dreaded orkish space hulks.
    -[X] (Weapon) Fusion Breaker Cannons: Based on the new Calavar Pattern Standard Macrocannon Battery, the Fusion Breaker Cannons achieve superior shell size and velocity by the simple expedient of being utterly fixed in position. This allows for bracing and reinforcements unable to be used on weapons that can actually be meaningfully aimed at other ships to be applied to the guns, thus allowing their increased capability. Of course, this also makes them unable to be used against other voidcraft, but that was never their purpose in the first place. Instead, the Fusion Breaker Cannons, and their enlarged shells which now have room for Fusion Warheads taken from the broadside armament nicknamed as 'Atomic Warheads', are meant to utterly devastate ground targets. Such targets can not meaningfully run or otherwise dodge, and thus the whole ship can be adjusted to aim the Breaker Cannons at them... and then from them deliver enough firepower to give even a warboss a very bad day.
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DaLintyGuy said:
Closer to the edges then Terra. Space is big, and with the way I put that reference in it could have been a double handful of Orkoid detachments launching spoiler attacks in/through the region.

Hm. Actually, this game is set a good amount of time before the Tyranids even arrived, so no problem there.
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Here's a thought. We could be on the edge of Imperial space on the vertical axis, as it were, so we could be in any Segmentum and still be on the far reaches of the Imperium's territory.
 
Happerry said:
I just want to state that I will support armies with combined arms because not doing so on account of silly legal beliefs is just silly.
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I mean here's the thing, even if we super strictly obey Imperial regulations on combined arms we can absolutely still have fully combined arms on the level of the actual ground armies we have. Seeing as the limitations on combined arms generally only apply to Regiment and smaller sized formations (although 40k regiments are often notably bigger than their IRL equivalent) while the smallest unit we're tracking is the Army.

So it's literally not an issue.
DaLintyGuy said:
I never specified a Segmentum, even in my notes (so don't expect Swarm Fleets, Tau, or other mostly localized threats), and the period is mid-M.40. So a little pre-canon.
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"A little" in this case meaning 1500 years.
 
[X] Plan: C4 (Command, Control & Colossal Cannons)
Damndable thing is i thought id voted earlier. Nearly done with the verical view should be up in 10-20 minutes.
 
Inserted a new tally
Adhoc vote count started by Sir_Travelsalot on Apr 21, 2020 at 5:31 PM, finished with 56 posts and 8 votes.
  • [X] Plan Torpedoes and Invasion Gear Revised
    -[X] (Housing Add-On) Servitor Defense Stations: While all ships carry armsmen aboard, they are primarily meant to combat human-scale opponents and lack the strength and melee prowess of some xenos and heretic forces. Spreading stations full of combat servitors across a ship can provide some much needed heavy combat assets to oppose ork boarders or hordes of weaker enemies that seek to overwhelm crews through sheer numbers. As well, a few servitor maintenance bays are added to the larger internal defense stations to allow onboard tech priests to keep the defending cyborgs in good condition. While such defense stations lack the numbers and conversion abilities of a full on combat servitor bay, and are generally unable to support offensive boarding options, they are both cheaper and easier to fit onto a ship then said larger bays.
    -[X] (Utility) Fusion Breaker Cannons: Based on the new Calavar Pattern Standard Macrocannon Battery, the Fusion Breaker Cannons achieve superior shell size and velocity by the simple expedient of being utterly fixed in position. This allows for bracing and reinforcements unable to be used on weapons that can actually be meaningfully aimed at other ships to be applied to the guns, thus allowing their increased capability. Of course, this also makes them unable to be used against other voidcraft, but that was never their purpose in the first place. Instead, the Fusion Breaker Cannons, and their enlarged shells which now have room for Fusion Warheads taken from the broadside armament nicknamed as 'Atomic Warheads', are meant to utterly devastate ground targets. Such targets can not meaningfully run or otherwise dodge, and thus the whole ship can be adjusted to aim the Breaker Cannons at them... and then from them deliver enough firepower to give even a warboss a very bad day.
    -[X] (Weapon) 'Duet' Pattern Torpedo Launchers: Very loosely based on the atomic armed rockets of our current missile based broadside option, the 'Duet' Pattern Torpedoes, and their associated launchers, are much, much larger. Faced with the needs of stamina for long distance flight, armor to resist enemy point defense, and power to pose a threat to enemy ships, the designs of the Duet were forced to scale their designs significantly up. The price of that is that each set of the 'Duet' pattern includes only two launchers, thus launching only two torpedoes per firing cycle. But the profit is that torpedoes can be launched at all, armored enough to survive the enemy defenses, given autocannon clusters of their own to drive away enemy fighters, and with warheads big enough not only to threaten other escorts, but enemy cruisers, defense stations, and even, when sufficiently massed, the dreaded orkish space hulks.
    -[X] (Ordinance) Mass Cargo Lander Refit: While it is one of the most famous, the Arvus is not the only cargo lander in the imperium... and some are much larger. Drawing on lessons learned during our first refit of a civilian craft to combat specs, we have taken one of these larger bulk transport designs and added armor and point defense gear, as well as military grade sensors and ECM, while ensuring that each is still capable of carrying an entire company at once, as well as the companies gear and vehicles. And when working together, they can land a lot more then a single company onto enemy held planets or stations.
    [X] Plan: C4 (Command, Control & Colossal Cannons)
    -[X] (Life Support) AirGuard Ventilation: What is, apart from expanded oxygen stores, a completely standard life support system has been altered to provide a deadly last-ditch deterrent against boarding parties. If boarders have occupied a chamber, it can be isolated from the rest of the system, flooded with oxygen and have a spark introduced within. Gas baffles will disperse the explosive force without damaging internal bulkheads. It is also noted that the description of such serves as an excellent deterrent for crew mutinies.
    -[X] (Bridge) Groupsight Bridge: Designed with future ships bearing Macrocannon and Lance Batteries in mind, this bridge improves on the shipboard weapons' fire control systems. The cogitator slaving framework has been adapted from designs of automated air defense batteries and spliced with the standard logic engines that allow a gun crew to plot a trajectory across the depths of space to its intended target. While not automating the process, reducing the gun crew's need to aim the weaponry beyond minute adjustments is projected to increase the coordination of future barrages significantly.
    -[X] (Weapon) 'Duet' Pattern Torpedo Launchers: Very loosely based on the atomic armed rockets of our current missile based broadside option, the 'Duet' Pattern Torpedoes, and their associated launchers, are much, much larger. Faced with the needs of stamina for long distance flight, armor to resist enemy point defense, and power to pose a threat to enemy ships, the designs of the Duet were forced to scale their designs significantly up. The price of that is that each set of the 'Duet' pattern includes only two launchers, thus launching only two torpedoes per firing cycle. But the profit is that torpedoes can be launched at all, armored enough to survive the enemy defenses, given autocannon clusters of their own to drive away enemy fighters, and with warheads big enough not only to threaten other escorts, but enemy cruisers, defense stations, and even, when sufficiently massed, the dreaded orkish space hulks.
    -[X] (Weapon) Fusion Breaker Cannons: Based on the new Calavar Pattern Standard Macrocannon Battery, the Fusion Breaker Cannons achieve superior shell size and velocity by the simple expedient of being utterly fixed in position. This allows for bracing and reinforcements unable to be used on weapons that can actually be meaningfully aimed at other ships to be applied to the guns, thus allowing their increased capability. Of course, this also makes them unable to be used against other voidcraft, but that was never their purpose in the first place. Instead, the Fusion Breaker Cannons, and their enlarged shells which now have room for Fusion Warheads taken from the broadside armament nicknamed as 'Atomic Warheads', are meant to utterly devastate ground targets. Such targets can not meaningfully run or otherwise dodge, and thus the whole ship can be adjusted to aim the Breaker Cannons at them... and then from them deliver enough firepower to give even a warboss a very bad day.
    [X] For Guarding and boarding
    [X](Utility) as traitor and Ork forces try to initiate boarding combat and the inevitable conflict in the ground perhaps we can adapt some industrial Exo suits for combat operations for anti boarding teams and heavy weapons in the guard, a plated Exo suit seems best for that kind of conflict, upgrading the wearer strength and allowing him to carry heavier weapons and more equipment, it would allow a soldier to fight a low-level boy in single combat and depending on training and equipment almost always win, although the plate cannot stop direct hits it can deflect and tank shrapnel
    [X] (Life Support) AirGuard Ventilation: What is, apart from expanded oxygen stores, a completely standard life support has been altered to provide a deadly last-ditch deterrent against boarding parties. If boarders have occupied a chamber, it can be isolated from the rest of the system, flooded with oxygen and have a spark introduced within. Gas baffles will disperse the explosive force without damaging internal bulkheads. It is also noted that the description of such serves as an excellent deterrent for crew mutinies.
    [X] (Weapon) 'Duet' Pattern Torpedo Launchers: Very loosely based on the atomic armed rockets of our current missile based broadside option, the 'Duet' Pattern Torpedoes, and their associated launchers, are much, much larger. Faced with the needs of stamina for long distance flight, armor to resist enemy point defense, and power to pose a threat to enemy ships, the designs of the Duet were forced to scale their designs significantly up. The price of that is that each set of the 'Duet' pattern includes only two launchers, thus launching only two torpedoes per firing cycle. But the profit is that torpedoes can be launched at all, armored enough to survive the enemy defenses, given autocannon clusters of their own to drive away enemy fighters, and with warheads big enough not only to threaten other escorts, but enemy cruisers, defense stations, and even, when sufficiently massed, the dreaded orkish space hulks.
    [X] (Weapon) Fusion Breaker Cannons: Based on the new Calavar Pattern Standard Macrocannon Battery, the Fusion Breaker Cannons achieve superior shell size and velocity by the simple expedient of being utterly fixed in position. This allows for bracing and reinforcements unable to be used on weapons that can actually be meaningfully aimed at other ships to be applied to the guns, thus allowing their increased capability. Of course, this also makes them unable to be used against other voidcraft, but that was never their purpose in the first place. Instead, the Fusion Breaker Cannons, and their enlarged shells which now have room for Fusion Warheads taken from the broadside armament nicknamed as 'Atomic Warheads', are meant to utterly devastate ground targets. Such targets can not meaningfully run or otherwise dodge, and thus the whole ship can be adjusted to aim the Breaker Cannons at them... and then from them deliver enough firepower to give even a warboss a very bad day.
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DaLintyGuy said:
For the benefit of the audience, what do you see as the difference between your plan and Happerry's plan of having more soldiery to defend the vessel?
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In the case of boarding deterrent, Happerry's plan involves a conventional solution to the problem, but one that will take up space and resources, whereas my plan involves something a bit more experimental, though still based on known processes, that is meant to achieve equivalent results in a more economically efficient manner.

Like, combat servitors are a tried and true method of augmenting troops with cheap heavy weapon support, but there are plenty of things in the future that will go through them like nothing, requiring us to further improve them. Whereas with my plan, if we can get it to work there's not that many things that will be able to shrug off the sort of explosive force being harnessed, and even fewer of those are able to fit in ship corridors to begin with. Plus the firestorm aspect of the defense will be useful in case of more Nurglite boarders.
 
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Sir_Travelsalot said:
Like, combat servitors are a tried and true method of augmenting troops with cheap heavy weapon support, but there are plenty of things in the future that will go through them like nothing, requiring us to further improve them. Whereas with my plan, if we can get it to work there's not that many things that will be able to shrug off the sort of explosive force being harnessed, and even fewer of those are able to fit in ship corridors to begin with. Plus the firestorm aspect of the defense will be useful in case of more Nurglite boarders.
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To be fair, this also depends on keeping the enemy from just shooting through the walls, being vulnerable to big explosions, and not being able to hack or otherwise disrupt the remote control stuff needed to remotely do that to people or the sensors that detect where the enemy boarding crew actually is, and so on. Both of our defenses will probably be good against, say, swarms of chaos slaves, ye average ork mob, or such, but both will also probably have significant issues if, say, a kommando mob shows up, a proper chaos demon shows up, chaos marines show up, the Dark Mechanicum starts dumping their own combat servitors in which can probably take the explosions anyway even if the stuff doesn't get hacked, and so on.

In the long run, I'd prefer to stack both and upgrade both, but in the short run both will work against the low level enemies we have to worry about right now.

So don't choose your vote based on the interior defenses, because the significant different between our plans is probably the bridge verses the invasion landers. Vote for the not-mine plan if you want better ships, and vote for my plan if you think we probably want to put armies into two defended targets this turn.
 
Happerry said:
So don't choose your vote based on the interior defenses, because the significant different between our plans is probably the bridge verses the invasion landers. Vote for the not-mine plan if you want better ships, and vote for my plan if you think we probably want to put armies into two defended targets this turn.
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Bearing in mind, of course, that DaLintyGuy has already said we can assign the auxiliary squadron to different theatres simultaneously.
 
There actually is a difference in the counter-boarding modules, in a sense. Happerry's is soldiers that can keep systems from being invaded and push enemies out of ones they have, while Travels' is better at killing enemies once they are inside the area of effect (there is no taking cover or outflanking a firestorm) but damages internal systems doing so.
 
DaLintyGuy said:
There actually is a difference in the counter-boarding modules, in a sense. Happerry's is soldiers that can keep systems from being invaded and push enemies out of ones they have, while Travels' is better at killing enemies once they are inside the area of effect (there is no taking cover or outflanking a firestorm) but damages internal systems doing so.
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Yeah. I thought it up as a "just in case" system if the onboard armsmen complement aren't sufficient to repel the enemy troops.
 
DaLintyGuy said:
There actually is a difference in the counter-boarding modules, in a sense. Happerry's is soldiers that can keep systems from being invaded and push enemies out of ones they have, while Travels' is better at killing enemies once they are inside the area of effect (there is no taking cover or outflanking a firestorm) but damages internal systems doing so.
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As I've said before, long term we probably want both, want both upgraded, and might want to stack some more and different defenses on top, because top level boarding enemies can be krazy. And in all honesty, even mid level ones could probably go through either of the currently proposed defensive parts like a chainsword through a git.

Sir_Travelsalot said:
Bearing in mind, of course, that DaLintyGuy has already said we can assign the auxiliary squadron to different theatres simultaneously.
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If we're going to invade something with actual defenses, we very much probably want the proper landers. The Auxillary serves verses stuff like pox marsh with no anti-landing stuff, but I'd be a lot more hesitant to deploy them to board ork rock fortresses.

To be fair, my primary plan for an ork rock fort or ten would probably be 'apply torpedoes to problem', but against stuff like the Khornate Cults or other proper enemies the Invasion Landers are definitely going to be a better option.
 
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Happerry said:
If we're going to invade something with actual defenses, we very much probably want the proper landers. The Auxillary serves verses stuff like pox marsh with no anti-landing stuff, but I'd be a lot more hesitant to deploy them to board ork rock fortresses.
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Why would we board Ork rock (asteroid) fortresses? We're building torpedoes and bombardment cannons so we can blow them up, aren't we?
 
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