Blood, Sweat, and Tears (WH40k Design Bureau)

Not really a fan of the f-off big orbital bombardment cannon. At that scale you'd be destroying so much of the planet you're trying to take you might as well not bother invading and just scorch the place from orbit.
You're underestimating how big a planet is, and also the need to make enemy army groups and cities go away, especially when said things are covered by theater shields. There's also always the time when we need to make an enemy ritual site F-Off Right Now, or such.

And it's not like anti-planet guns of that scale or larger aren't already used in setting, so there's precedent.
 
So I remembered what DaLintyGuy said about our locally available APC's, what with a modern-equivalent design and autocannon turret, and I was reminded of this:

Is this what it looks like? Or does it have tracks? (Ignore the multilaser in the turret)
 
Leave them as is, I think. They are scraped together and using under par weaponry that makes up for it with Moar Dakka.
I suspect that compared to the venerable laser-based weapons batteries used by the Sword Frigate, the Calvar-Pattern Macro-Cannons in use here suffer from inferior damage per shot, accuracy, resistance to damage, and endurance (ammunition concerns yo.)

On the other hand, yes, there are a lot more of them. Taking the art literally, a Sword's batteries are one gun each while a Calvar Pattern is four, and so as both ships have two weapons a Sword has two turrets while a Resoulte has an astounding eight! Although again, not sure how many shots really hit the target. And that's after a trend towards fewer and larger turrets. I think I know how the Merchant cannons have VS Range now, they're borderline PD.

Speaking of, our current hull is very offensively biased. As I said, a Sword has two weapon slots traditionally, but in this game I'd say three or so Defensive slots. Seeing as it manages to have shields, armour, and point defense in one package. It's very useful lemme tell ya.

(Also said Sword-turrets are double-barreled for superior pew pew compared to the single-barrel turrets of the Cobra or Resolute, at least in the video game. The video game also depicts the Sword's turrets as cannons and not lasers. Take all that as you will.)
That is typically the role of Torpedoes.
Well, yes, although if you look at the video game specifically you'll find that long range (although no longer than the equivalent weight macro-cannons) guided missiles are a thing... in the hands of the navies of Chaos. Not so much the fleets of the Imperium.

But the video game also has Nova Cannons on a swivel mount for AdMech Cruisers, as well as the Falchion having the same number of torpedo tubes as the Cobra despite clearly having half the tubes in both art of tabletop and game and tabletop mechanics, so take that as you will.
 
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(Also said Sword-turrets are double-barreled for superior pew pew compared to the single-barrel turrets of the Cobra or Resolute, at least in the video game. The video game also depicts the Sword's turrets as cannons and not lasers. Take all that as you will.)

Well, yes, although if you look at the video game specifically you'll find that long range (although no longer than the equivalent weight macro-cannons) guided missiles are a thing... in the hands of the navies of Chaos. Not so much the fleets of the Imperium.
I am assuming that Warhammer happened to the Sword, where the hull is what is called a Sword and different places will arm their ships differently based on tradition and availability.

Chaos can get away with a lot of things as their "technology" is about 80% Daemons by mass, which are resistant to Daemons and hacking turning self guided munitions back on the firing platform.
Also even the Imperium can use missile based Weapon Batteries, they are just considered inefficient (having to manufacture ammunition, lack of E-War hardening, a bunch are going to miss, etc).

Is this what it looks like? Or does it have tracks? (Ignore the multilaser in the turret)
Either or. Either older designs or multiple manufacturers for local militaries.

Not really a fan of the f-off big orbital bombardment cannon. At that scale you'd be destroying so much of the planet you're trying to take you might as well not bother invading and just scorch the place from orbit.
Eh... A moderate bombardment probably doesn't even kick up as much mass as a volcanic eruption. So long as you don't go "we will work this planet over until no Human could live there again" it'll be fine.
 
Works for me. Want to add supporting elements like SPGs or Combat Lighters?
As nice as air support is, Imperial ground armies are not allowed to have their own air force. Those are the jurisdiction of the Aeronautica Imperialis, who are a part of the Imperial Navy. But yeah, they'd of course keep the artillery as well.
 
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As nice as air support is, Imperial ground armies are not allowed to have their own air force. Those are the jurisdiction of Aeronautica Imperialis, who are a part of the Imperial Navy.
Y'see, they aren't here right now... Plus if you want to get technical they would be part of the Calavar PDF/SDF. Which are outside the Imperial remit (well, until they get tithed, but they aren't here right now and even if they were they would just be doing the same thing as you have them doing and so pretty much get plugged back into your command structure as the only hierarchy still loyal and intact).
 
Y'see, they aren't here right now... Plus if you want to get technical they would be part of the Calavar PDF/SDF. Which are outside the Imperial remit (well, until they get tithed, but they aren't here right now and even if they were they would just be doing the same thing as you have them doing and so pretty much get plugged back into your command structure as the only hierarchy still loyal and intact).
Yes, that's how it goes in practice, but it means that legally we can't have them as a formal part of an Army's chain of command. We'll just include hangars for atmospheric craft like Lightnings and Thunderbolts on our purpose-built Troop Ships.
 
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Yes, that's how it goes in practice, but it means that legally we can't have them as a formal part of an Army's chain of command.
Why not? I suppose you could go the Imperial route of having Aerial Armies in addition to your other ones, although that reduces their integration with friendly forces in the area they are operating in.

In either case, you can simply reorganize after the Crusade is finished.
 
Why not? I suppose you could go the Imperial route of having Aerial Armies in addition to your other ones, although that reduces their integration with friendly forces in the area they are operating in.

In either case, you can simply reorganize after the Crusade is finished.
Because the one whole reason for the law is that the Imperium doesn't want any army to have full combined arms capability (the Horus Heresy showed how bad those can be to fight when they are against you), since if they turn traitor that makes them a real pain to eradicate. Just having a ground-bound formally Combined Arms force is skirting the edges of being acceptable, and I'd rather not risk the Imperium declaring us to be renegades out of paranoia.

Very few regiments in the Imperium are combined arms, because that garners suspicion by default. Armageddon's Steel Legion get away with it since their PDF that they tithe from would choke to death if they were footslogging on their planet + having to deal with Orks constantly.
 
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Because the one whole reason for the law is that the Imperium doesn't want any army to have full combined arms capability (the Horus Heresy showed how bad those can be to fight when they are against you), since if they turn traitor that makes them a real pain to eradicate. Just having a ground-bound formally Combined Arms force is skirting the edges of being acceptable, and I'd rather not risk the Imperium declaring us to be renegades out of paranoia.
Well, if that is your choice then.
 
I am assuming that Warhammer happened to the Sword, where the hull is what is called a Sword and different places will arm their ships differently based on tradition and availability.
Yeah probably.
Chaos can get away with a lot of things as their "technology" is about 80% Daemons by mass, which are resistant to Daemons and hacking turning self guided munitions back on the firing platform.
It's guided missiles Linty they're not exactly lost technology.
Right, so my idea for future ground forces was to take those, mount antitank missile launchers on the turret and use them to make Combined Arms Armies in the form of Mechanized Infantry with what is in effect light tank destroyers.
So spam Hunter-Killers? I mean it's not completely unworkable, but keep in mind that due to 40k tanks being able to, well, tank missiles to the face it's not exactly going to be effective in the tank hunter role as you might expect from IRL BMPs and the like built on the premise.
 
Yeah probably.

It's guided missiles Linty they're not exactly lost technology.

So spam Hunter-Killers? I mean it's not completely unworkable, but keep in mind that due to 40k tanks being able to, well, tank missiles to the face it's not exactly going to be effective in the tank hunter role as you might expect from IRL BMPs and the like built on the premise.
If it's only the one that can be slapped to the hull, sure. But here is, for your consideration, the Chimerro. Something akin to that system shouldn't be too difficult to manage, especially since it is called the most basic modification you could make on a Chimera, apparently even more so than adding extra armour.
 
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It's guided missiles Linty they're not exactly lost technology.
True. The main problem is logistical (these are big missiles, fired in large numbers) and the fact that "Space Magic" exists that can coopt your missiles, doubly so if there is some flaw in their construction. So instead of building hundreds of sensor heads built to penetrate ECM and survive the rigors of space combat you would instead have your ship fire lasers or unguided shells.
 
If it's only the one that can be slapped to the hull, sure. But here is, for your consideration, the Chimerro. Something akin to that system shouldn't be too difficult to manage, especially since it is called the most basic modification you could make on a Chimera, apparently even more so than adding extra armour.
I'm not saying it's unworkable, or even a bad idea, just saying that you should remember that it's not a true substitute for real anti-tank equipment.

Mind you, considering the average quality of Ork and Traitor "armour" I doubt it's not going to be sufficient for the near future.
True. The main problem is logistical (these are big missiles, fired in large numbers) and the fact that "Space Magic" exists that can coopt your missiles, doubly so if there is some flaw in their construction. So instead of building hundreds of sensor heads built to penetrate ECM and survive the rigors of space combat you would instead have your ship fire lasers or unguided shells.
Well, true. Even said Chaos ships makes limited use of them. And nobody puts them in broadside mounts.
 
I'm not saying it's unworkable, or even a bad idea, just saying that you should remember that it's not a true substitute for real anti-tank equipment.

Mind you, considering the average quality of Ork and Traitor "armour" I doubt it's not going to be sufficient for the near future.
I mean, we could also replace the hull-mounted heavy bolter with a lascannon, if we want/need more anti-armor punch. It has an autocannon turret and port holes for individual arms to deal with infantry, which should be sufficient.
 
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The Bones of War (Set End of Turn 1)
The death of a starship is a great and terrible thing. It is possible for them to have plied their trade for millennia, accumulating wealth for their owners and seeing many a thing. Death, success, betrayal, all this and more will happen given enough time for even the smallest Chartist vessel is a prize beyond imagining for the majority of people.

But at the end of even the most storied career is the same event: destruction. Be it a careless crew, an error in judgement during travel or salvage, or wrenched apart by enemy shells in the black void it is the nature of the universe for all to end. And yet, not all endings are final...

Her name had once been In Wealth, Solace. Born from the mediocre yards of the Forge World Laskin in the core of the Lativa Subsector she had plied a gentle course over seven centuries as she wound a route through the southern portion of the Subsector. Loaded with manufactured goods at Hive World Arlingem, from replacement parts for terraforming systems to masses of plasteel for outlying worlds to wrap their vehicles and defense in, In Wealth, Solace had returned with chemical and luxury goods from far off locales with which to treat those who could afford such. It was a quiet route, for even as the Subsector reached the tipping point the Imperial Navy kept the shipping lanes clear of predators.

But such luck would not last. The rapid emergence of WAAAGH!! Gunbreaka on the major Warp routes leading south sharply curtailed the Navy's abilty to project power into the Subsector whose future was rapidly bleakening. Eventually the storied warships withdrew entirely for there were too many threats, too far from resupply. Now there were none to protect the Solace.

She was captured as she gathered a number of other Chartist vessels to her sheer size. That which made her seem trustworthy also made her a target and it was by guile, not force, that she fell. Another pair of refugee ships requested passage alongside the flotilla and were welcomed warmly, for there was strength in numbers. Yet these offerings would prove to be poisoned beyond measure.

The new captains and their crews were fatalist but then that was almost expected at that point. As the Subsector burned around them, where could cheer be found? Yet the philosophy spread through the small flotilla for they promised something beyond mere survival to the beleaguered crews. There were many powers out there and unlike the Corpse God, they listened when presented... Tokens of support.

Finally noticing the secrecy and even heresy plagueing the lower decks the captain of the Solace gave brusque demands, expecting them to be followed without question. They always had before, for the captain had the power of life and death over the crew by his authority over the sacred and sacrosanct life preservers. But key personnel had been converted, forcibly if necessary, or quietly assassinated after the captain gave his demands. By jealous subordinates skipped over for promotion, by "true" believers, or misguided fools it mattered not. Within the day the captain's head was mounted on the bridge and the real power of the fleet had taken the helm.

Such is the weakness of Humanity that those without power seek to lord over those with even less and it was more true here than most. The remaining crew of the flotilla turned from their course to claim territory as their own to lord over. They may have sacrificed their bodies to unsanitary practices, their sanity to the mad things of the Warp, and their souls on the altar of false power, but they were stronger than the lost populations of worlds that now went without protectors.

Brazen acts of theft turned to raids as equipment was obtained from these minor worlds, with the spoils lining the belly of the ship once called Solace. Slaves were taken, armed, and herded towards their former compatriots as ablative troops while others toiled pointlessly in the fields and hills of Bailafax turned Pox Marsh. The leader of the force grew in personal power as the devotion of their force of renegades did. Previously minor psychic phenomena became more powerful and twisted and this proof of "divine" favor drove the cult to greater heights now that they were under the eyes of manifestations of the power of their deity: cyclopean monsters in the shape of a man, with great, rusted cleavers that killed with but a scratch.

Soon, this world would become a marsh in truth as the power of the Warp drew ever closer. A reflection of the Primordial Truth that Reality was locked in the same cycle of death and rebirth as their patron.


And then their next victims came to them and the flotilla of Nurglite ships, filled with captured fliers and sobbing slave soldiers, went to add them to their numbers.

=====

Sub-Magus Argel looked up from the clinically detached wording and diagrams of the wreck that lay before him to study the ruined remains themselves. Small streams of sparks cascaded away from the splintered and warped hull to slowly cool in the vacuum of space as the dock workers of Calavar bent to the task of stripping away the sections of the ship ruined by the flood of plasma that had emanated from her breached reactor and ruptured engine bells.

It was a sign of the sheer size of the prize that the work was not being undertaken in the shelter of the shipyard itself but rather alongside three of the ship-wombs and under the cover of a patchy Void shield layer.

"Examination shows no sign of continuing corruption among the wreck, unlike the minor symptoms seen on the two crippled light craft." The Sub-Magus declared solemnly with his true voice for the benefit of the Calavar officer standing beside and behind where he sat. "Speculation says that it was insufficiently deeply set to survive the cleansing flame of it's death. Structural members are either intact or sufficiently redundant that the original design can be remade where battle damage has compromised integrity."

"What are our options for conversion?" The officer asked softly, uneasy at the slight trespass she was committing by being sent into "cult country"; the section where the Adeptus Mechanicus members did their arcane processes on the shipyard. One result of their work had been the Resolutes, but one did not lightly risk incurring the idle ire of the Omnissiah and his ilk...

"The scale of the ship is promising." Argel concluded, for the sake of his audience. "Conversion into a mobile manufactorum would have beneficial impacts on fleet actions from immediate repairs. Conversion into a carrier would be of use, similarly, a transport." He reached out to draw attention to the diagrams on his desk. "Gathered information has given insights into large scale construction."

Cruisers, even their lesser brethren, were the first step to having a proper battle line. Unlike Escorts, Cruisers were long term assets to a fleet out of simple cost. Having it wear out over the course of the century was simply not an option. Even so... Calavar needed ships now.
Argel would have to be content with upending the natural order of things through war time emergency funding.

A minute grin crossed his face as he let the feeling of the parchment under his hand sink in, hidden from the leaving officer by his hood.

How many of the Martian Brotherhood could say they designed cruisers?
 
Nice. I'd say the hull itself would probably serve best as a fleet tender, replace the hangars with cargo and repair bays, maybe install some hull armor and rapid shields on the thing.
Actual conversion will be bought during the Construction phase, but yeah, that would be a useful capability to have.

Doubly so if you, I don't know, actually made a proper Repair Utility component. :ogles:
 
Actual conversion will be bought during the Construction phase, but yeah, that would be a useful capability to have.

Doubly so if you, I don't know, actually made a proper Repair Utility component. :ogles:
We only have 4 design actions, and we need to shore up our existing ships and prep for making proper ships of the line, there's only so much time in this action economy. Besides, most ships are capable of repairing themselves in time save for catastrophic damage that nothing short of a shipyard could fix. The tender's role there is to ferry materials and the repair crews around.
 
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Inserted tally so... is anyone planning on voting?
Adhoc vote count started by Happerry on Apr 20, 2020 at 11:36 PM, finished with 17 posts and 4 votes.

  • [X] Plan Torpedoes and Invasion Gear Revised
    -[X] (Housing Add-On) Servitor Defense Stations: While all ships carry armsmen aboard, they are primarily meant to combat human-scale opponents and lack the strength and melee prowess of some xenos and heretic forces. Spreading stations full of combat servitors across a ship can provide some much needed heavy combat assets to oppose ork boarders or hordes of weaker enemies that seek to overwhelm crews through sheer numbers. As well, a few servitor maintenance bays are added to the larger internal defense stations to allow onboard tech priests to keep the defending cyborgs in good condition. While such defense stations lack the numbers and conversion abilities of a full on combat servitor bay, and are generally unable to support offensive boarding options, they are both cheaper and easier to fit onto a ship then said larger bays.
    -[X] (Utility) Fusion Breaker Cannons: Based on the new Calavar Pattern Standard Macrocannon Battery, the Fusion Breaker Cannons achieve superior shell size and velocity by the simple expedient of being utterly fixed in position. This allows for bracing and reinforcements unable to be used on weapons that can actually be meaningfully aimed at other ships to be applied to the guns, thus allowing their increased capability. Of course, this also makes them unable to be used against other voidcraft, but that was never their purpose in the first place. Instead, the Fusion Breaker Cannons, and their enlarged shells which now have room for Fusion Warheads taken from the broadside armament nicknamed as 'Atomic Warheads', are meant to utterly devastate ground targets. Such targets can not meaningfully run or otherwise dodge, and thus the whole ship can be adjusted to aim the Breaker Cannons at them... and then from them deliver enough firepower to give even a warboss a very bad day.
    -[X] (Weapon) 'Duet' Pattern Torpedo Launchers: Very loosely based on the atomic armed rockets of our current missile based broadside option, the 'Duet' Pattern Torpedoes, and their associated launchers, are much, much larger. Faced with the needs of stamina for long distance flight, armor to resist enemy point defense, and power to pose a threat to enemy ships, the designs of the Duet were forced to scale their designs significantly up. The price of that is that each set of the 'Duet' pattern includes only two launchers, thus launching only two torpedoes per firing cycle. But the profit is that torpedoes can be launched at all, armored enough to survive the enemy defenses, given autocannon clusters of their own to drive away enemy fighters, and with warheads big enough not only to threaten other escorts, but enemy cruisers, defense stations, and even, when sufficiently massed, the dreaded orkish space hulks.
    -[X] (Ordinance) Mass Cargo Lander Refit: While it is one of the most famous, the Arvus is not the only cargo lander in the imperium... and some are much larger. Drawing on lessons learned during our first refit of a civilian craft to combat specs, we have taken one of these larger bulk transport designs and added armor and point defense gear, as well as military grade sensors and ECM, while ensuring that each is still capable of carrying an entire company at once, as well as the companies gear and vehicles. And when working together, they can land a lot more then a single company onto enemy held planets or stations.
    [X] For Guarding and boarding
    [X](Utility) as traitor and Ork forces try to initiate boarding combat and the inevitable conflict in the ground perhaps we can adapt some industrial Exo suits for combat operations for anti boarding teams and heavy weapons in the guard, a plated Exo suit seems best for that kind of conflict, upgrading the wearer strength and allowing him to carry heavier weapons and more equipment, it would allow a soldier to fight a low-level boy in single combat and depending on training and equipment almost always win, although the plate cannot stop direct hits it can deflect and tank shrapnel
    [X] (Life Support) AirGuard Ventilation: What is, apart from expanded oxygen stores, a completely standard life support has been altered to provide a deadly last-ditch deterrent against boarding parties. If boarders have occupied a chamber, it can be isolated from the rest of the system, flooded with oxygen and have a spark introduced within. Gas baffles will disperse the explosive force without damaging internal bulkheads. It is also noted that the description of such serves as an excellent deterrent for crew mutinies.
    [X] (Weapon) 'Duet' Pattern Torpedo Launchers: Very loosely based on the atomic armed rockets of our current missile based broadside option, the 'Duet' Pattern Torpedoes, and their associated launchers, are much, much larger. Faced with the needs of stamina for long distance flight, armor to resist enemy point defense, and power to pose a threat to enemy ships, the designs of the Duet were forced to scale their designs significantly up. The price of that is that each set of the 'Duet' pattern includes only two launchers, thus launching only two torpedoes per firing cycle. But the profit is that torpedoes can be launched at all, armored enough to survive the enemy defenses, given autocannon clusters of their own to drive away enemy fighters, and with warheads big enough not only to threaten other escorts, but enemy cruisers, defense stations, and even, when sufficiently massed, the dreaded orkish space hulks.
    [X] (Weapon) Fusion Breaker Cannons: Based on the new Calavar Pattern Standard Macrocannon Battery, the Fusion Breaker Cannons achieve superior shell size and velocity by the simple expedient of being utterly fixed in position. This allows for bracing and reinforcements unable to be used on weapons that can actually be meaningfully aimed at other ships to be applied to the guns, thus allowing their increased capability. Of course, this also makes them unable to be used against other voidcraft, but that was never their purpose in the first place. Instead, the Fusion Breaker Cannons, and their enlarged shells which now have room for Fusion Warheads taken from the broadside armament nicknamed as 'Atomic Warheads', are meant to utterly devastate ground targets. Such targets can not meaningfully run or otherwise dodge, and thus the whole ship can be adjusted to aim the Breaker Cannons at them... and then from them deliver enough firepower to give even a warboss a very bad day.
    [X] Plan: C4 (Command, Control & Colossal Cannons)
    -[X] (Life Support) AirGuard Ventilation: What is, apart from expanded oxygen stores, a completely standard life support system has been altered to provide a deadly last-ditch deterrent against boarding parties. If boarders have occupied a chamber, it can be isolated from the rest of the system, flooded with oxygen and have a spark introduced within. Gas baffles will disperse the explosive force without damaging internal bulkheads. It is also noted that the description of such serves as an excellent deterrent for crew mutinies.
    -[X] (Bridge) Groupsight Bridge: Designed with future ships bearing Macrocannon and Lance Batteries in mind, this bridge improves on the shipboard weapons' fire control systems. The cogitator slaving framework has been adapted from designs of automated air defense batteries and spliced with the standard logic engines that allow a gun crew to plot a trajectory across the depths of space to its intended target. While not automating the process, reducing the gun crew's need to aim the weaponry beyond minute adjustments is projected to increase the coordination of future barrages significantly.
    -[X] (Weapon) 'Duet' Pattern Torpedo Launchers: Very loosely based on the atomic armed rockets of our current missile based broadside option, the 'Duet' Pattern Torpedoes, and their associated launchers, are much, much larger. Faced with the needs of stamina for long distance flight, armor to resist enemy point defense, and power to pose a threat to enemy ships, the designs of the Duet were forced to scale their designs significantly up. The price of that is that each set of the 'Duet' pattern includes only two launchers, thus launching only two torpedoes per firing cycle. But the profit is that torpedoes can be launched at all, armored enough to survive the enemy defenses, given autocannon clusters of their own to drive away enemy fighters, and with warheads big enough not only to threaten other escorts, but enemy cruisers, defense stations, and even, when sufficiently massed, the dreaded orkish space hulks.
    -[X] (Weapon) Fusion Breaker Cannons: Based on the new Calavar Pattern Standard Macrocannon Battery, the Fusion Breaker Cannons achieve superior shell size and velocity by the simple expedient of being utterly fixed in position. This allows for bracing and reinforcements unable to be used on weapons that can actually be meaningfully aimed at other ships to be applied to the guns, thus allowing their increased capability. Of course, this also makes them unable to be used against other voidcraft, but that was never their purpose in the first place. Instead, the Fusion Breaker Cannons, and their enlarged shells which now have room for Fusion Warheads taken from the broadside armament nicknamed as 'Atomic Warheads', are meant to utterly devastate ground targets. Such targets can not meaningfully run or otherwise dodge, and thus the whole ship can be adjusted to aim the Breaker Cannons at them... and then from them deliver enough firepower to give even a warboss a very bad day.
 
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[X] Plan Torpedoes and Invasion Gear Revised
Is it possible for us to know in which Segmentum we are and what year it is?
 
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I just want to state that I will support armies with combined arms because not doing so on account of silly legal beliefs is just silly.
 
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