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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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Duesal said:
Unbelievable, it's still being considered even after we have GM confirmation on how unwilling Bahamut is to work with us. I for one do not want to waste time on getting burned.


@TalonofAnathrax you have me convinced on the usefulness of being able to Rebuke creatures made of Fire. Straight Cleric for Vaela it is.
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Goldfish said:
It's not a weak reason at all. We literally have confirmation from Azel and DP that Bahamut would be extremely difficult to work with, far more so than Lucan even. And that we would have to reform our ways to be acceptable to him, which would definitely include no longer working with our flock of Erinyes, no more blood sacrifices, no more feeding enemy corpses to the Fungal Forge, etc.

This translates to a hard pass for Bahamut.
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If I wanted to listen to an old man yell at us I would go bother Lucan. Or possibly Lannister dude...

I want an interlude so he can have some of his awesome cred back.
 
Goldfish said:
It's not a weak reason at all. We literally have confirmation from Azel and DP that Bahamut would be extremely difficult to work with, far more so than Lucan even. And that we would have to reform our ways to be acceptable to him, which would definitely include no longer working with our flock of Erinyes, no more blood sacrifices, no more feeding enemy corpses to the Fungal Forge, etc.

This translates to a hard pass for Bahamut.
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Oh no, I'm not saying what Azel's told us is a weak reason to not vote for contacting Bahamut. I'm saying the reasons Viserys, in character, has for not doing so feel weak to me. That's all. I'm okay with not doing it, I'm just trying to square OOC reasons with IC ones, personally.
 
Goldfish said:
It's not a weak reason at all. We literally have confirmation from Azel and DP that Bahamut would be extremely difficult to work with, far more so than Lucan even. And that we would have to reform our ways to be acceptable to him, which would definitely include no longer working with our flock of Erinyes, no more blood sacrifices, no more feeding enemy corpses to the Fungal Forge, etc.
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Funnily enough I do not think he would be too but hurt about most of that.
 
Goldfish said:
It's not a weak reason at all. We literally have confirmation from Azel and DP that Bahamut would be extremely difficult to work with, far more so than Lucan even. And that we would have to reform our ways to be acceptable to him, which would definitely include no longer working with our flock of Erinyes, no more blood sacrifices, no more feeding enemy corpses to the Fungal Forge, etc.

This translates to a hard pass for Bahamut.
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For our IC reason it was our Knowledge (Religion) that got us the intel I believed. That's why we were able to learn he's apparently more unwilling to work with us than Lucan. I agree with pretty much everything here, there's a lot I'm unwilling to compromise.
 
Elorie said:
Checked up on Astral Deva and the passage of souls - but there are also the Monadic Deva, who meddle in the inner planes, a possible contact - especially when you're already meddling there. There should be some remnants in hidden redoubts, even on the positive and negative planes. Perhaps a lead to adding Water to the alliance...?

What of the four elemental lords? Are the good ones imprisoned? Four ready made quests, if so.
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The dude we Summoned to ask more about the fate of Heaven is actually a Monadic Deva we freed from eons of captivity last year. Poor guy has been trying to do his job since being freed, but it's an uphill battle.

I don't think there are any Elemental Lords in our cosmology, at least there have been no references to them. I'm just assuming that the Genie rulers of each of their empires, with the exception of the Plane of Water, are the defacto rulers of their respective Planes. The Marid kingdom was destroyed long ago on the Plane of Water, leaving them in scattered groups.

The real powers on the Plane of Water, according to Relath, are the elder Brine Dragons. Brine Dragons are absolute pains in the ass (they get worse as they age) and Marids are the Chaotic Douchebag type of Chaotic Neutral, so we aren't likely to get much traction with them. Since there is no centralized power there, it would be extremely difficult to make any sort of meaningful alliance with them anyway.
 
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Goldfish said:
The dude we Summoned to ask more about the fate of Heaven is actually a Monadic Deva we freed from eons of captivity last year. Poor guy has been trying to do his job since being freed, but it's an uphill battle.

I don't think there are any Elemental Lords in our cosmology, at least there have been no references to them. I'm just assuming that the Genie rulers of each of their empires, with the exception of the Plane of Water, are the defacto rulers of their respective Planes. The Marid kingdom was destroyed long ago on the Plane of Water, leaving them in scattered groups.

The real powers on the Plane of Water, according to Relath, are the elder Brine Dragons. Brine Dragons are absolute pains in the ass (they get worse as they age) and Marids are the Chaotic Douchebag type of Chaotic Neutral, so we aren't likely to get much traction with them. Since there is no centralized power there, it would be extremely difficult to make any sort of meaningful alliance with them anyway.
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I thought Ymeri was an Elemental Lord?
 
Duesal said:
For our IC reason it was our Knowledge (Religion) that got us the intel I believed. That's why we were able to learn he's apparently more unwilling to work with us than Lucan. I agree with pretty much everything here, there's a lot I'm unwilling to compromise.
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I just did a quick search and didn't find any IC intel gathering like that, could you point me towards it? @Azel 's post seemed to be OOC, if I understood it right.
 
Shwaggy said:
I just did a quick search and didn't find any IC intel gathering like that, could you point me towards it? @Azel 's post seemed to be OOC, if I understood it right.
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It wasn't Azel's post, it was DP's post.
DragonParadox said:
I'm going to say this bluntly to save on the salt, Bahamut would probably be one of the hardest gods to get on board and require the most sacrifices from you guys. I say this because Viserys has a good knowledge religions and knows something of his character and tenets.
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Thanks to Viserys' Knowledge (Religion) we are keenly aware of how unlikely it is to get Bahamut to work with us.
 
Duesal said:
It wasn't Azel's post, it was DP's post.

Thanks to Viserys' Knowledge (Religion) we are keenly aware of how unlikely it is to get Bahamut to work with us.
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Ah, thanks. Missed that one. Okay, I can now see Viserys at least holding off on trying as an emergency measure, which reconciles everything. (I personally would like to have tried, and gotten whatever information he has on the fall of the heavens and such, but I'm not interested in opening the salt caves. Just needed to get rid of that IC/OOC disconnect I had)
 
I am free! And I can now comment on all this!

Azel said:
"Of Elysium, only chaos is left. The realms shattering was the beginning of it all, and now its shards splinter ever further, falling into Limbo while the corruption of the Abyss flows in. Some shards are mere grains of dust, others the size of kingdoms and in those some light endures, though it dims with every hour, crumbling like everything in this sphere. Some try to rebuild, to anchor what they can, but the works of eons is sometimes shattered in mere moments by the chaos of war raging through this plane."
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Interesting. They attempted to go for the least organized faction, the CG outsiders. But they attmepted something big, on a whole plane-shattering scale. The place is doomed, but some thing might yet be salvaged... by moving them to another plane.

Azel said:
"Axis yet turns, but it has been lessened. While the city is not beholden to Baator, there are ties of trade and the occasional alliance of need in the Blood War, as Axis has been left without its old defenders. The Crucible lies cold and broken since before the war, and I think no one knows who did the deed. The Inevitables tried to save Elysium when it began to sunder, but they all disappeared and the rifts kept widening. They were already gone when the war started in earnest."
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This was likely a ploy by Asmodeus. Who else would have the cunning to do this? It also explains why Baator is now the only ally they have.

Azel said:
"Daemons followed in its wake, but for once the hosts of Abaddon were the lesser horror on the field. And thus Nirvana was torn apart in war and would have perished to the onslaught if they had not disappeared one day, the Daemons and Far Spawn beginning to war over the lost paradise as if it was carrion."
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Daemons are the opportunist here, but I woudn't put aside the fact that they were manipulated into invading, or were outright allies of convenience.

Azel said:
"While the war was still being fought in Nirvana, the hosts of Heaven began to march to aid our brethren. It was not enough to turn the tide and when war reached our home, there was not enough left to defend ourselves. The Legions of Hell broke down the gates, these dark creatures and swarms of Daemons following in their wake."
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Which points out to Baator actually organizing all this. They attacked when the hosts were weakened.

Azel said:
When Heaven broke, they disappeared, and the Lord of the Ninth betrayed the Daemons in the same heartbeat."
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And here we have the idea of Asmodeus himself. Control. He didn't want Heaven to be destroyed, but he probably couldn't predict the actions of the Void.


All in all, it was clever, but even Asmodeus couldn't contain the whole chaos. Even himself would have wanted to rule Heaven instead of seeing it destroyed.
 
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Alright, so...
My watch has started.

And to be completely honest, I would take a year at the Wall, over a month taking care of 5-year-olds.

5 days a week/10-12 hours a day, and all for a measly 3k rubles... 45.8 dollars, or about so.

Mandatory part of my course as a teacher, that.
Total shit that is going to kill me dead inside, and doesn't even pay half as much as simply going there on public transport takes, too.

How's that relevant?
Well, weekends aside, I am likely going to be unavailable throughout most of the day, unexpected breaks aside.
I'm not likely to take part in turn-vote-crafting (and damn it, I wanted to :( ), nor would I be capable reading scrupulously through every page as I usually do.

If any of you has an idea about a Minor Action or a Research action - @'m me in thread, or PM me, I'll try to keep those resolved.

@DragonParadox, @Azel, please keep an eye on MAs. Those done personally by Viserys aside, we still have a pile-y of those to resolve this month, and next one it's unlikely to get much better.
 
Goldfish said:
It's not a weak reason at all. We literally have confirmation from Azel and DP that Bahamut would be extremely difficult to work with, far more so than Lucan even. And that we would have to reform our ways to be acceptable to him, which would definitelyinclude no longer working with our flock of Erinyes, no more blood sacrifices, no more feeding enemy corpses to the Fungal Forge, etc.

This translates to a hard pass for Bahamut.
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Please do not do this.

Problem bit in bold. You do not need to engage in hyperbole here, just quote the DM's post on the matter. As someone who really has no problem with Bhamut, on DP's post, I dropped the idea of chatting with him myself upon seeing the post. You have your tool to stop the idea getting traction, so why not just quote that post and please do not imply, or come as close to implying that you have done that freeing souls from hell is bad, or would be judged as bad by a traditionally 'good guy'

I know you said working with. Still don't need to use "definitely" when describing things you apply your own judgement to. Muddles things.

Also, I respectfully disagree with the corpses for the forge bit as being an issue with him, but considering that it will not be relevant, I'm not suggesting we get into the why.
 
BeepSmile said:
Please do not do this.

Problem bit in bold. You do not need to engage in hyperbole here, just quote the DM's post on the matter. As someone who really has no problem with Bhamut, on DP's post, I dropped the idea of chatting with him myself upon seeing the post. You have your tool to stop the idea getting traction, so why not just quote that post and please do not imply, or come as close to implying that you have done that freeing souls from hell is bad, or would be judged as bad by a traditionally 'good guy'

I know you said working with. Still don't need to use "definitely" when describing things you apply your own judgement to. Muddles things.

Also, I respectfully disagree with the corpses for the forge bit as being an issue with him, but considering that it will not be relevant, I'm not suggesting we get into the why.
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I'm not exaggerating. I'm just trying to condense what Azel and DP conveyed to us into a single post.

Bahamut is not the type to condone working with Devils. That's not in dispute.
 
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egoo said:
Alright, so...
My watch has started.

And to be completely honest, I would take a year at the Wall, over a month taking care of 5-year-olds.

5 days a week/10-12 hours a day, and all for a measly 3k rubles... 45.8 dollars, or about so.

Mandatory part of my course as a teacher, that.
Total shit that is going to kill me dead inside, and doesn't even pay half as much as simply going there on public transport takes, too.
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Damn, dude...that sounds horrible... :o

I couldn't be a teacher, especially of young children, unless every single one of them was wearing a shock collar.

Be strong!
 
tarrangar said:
I'm not expecting growing equipment to be much cheaper than crafting, but it would allow us to pay in corpses, and be a mean of bypassing crafter scarcity.
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tarrangar said:
That can easily be fixed, just add some shape-changing abilities, so they can turn into a form that allows for independent action outside of battle.

It even have a dual use, in if a weapon creature is dropped, or a troop die while their armor yet lives, they have a chance to get to safety behind our lines.
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tarrangar said:
1 it don't need crafter time just Fungus Forge time, and as we have never worked the Forge to capacity, Fungus Forge time is a free resource for now.

2 as they would be living creatures not equipment, they wouldn't be harmed by things that destroy equipment.

3 they would all be sentient, and if we designed them right able to move, so stealing them would be a good deal harder than normal equipment, as unless you mind control them, they will try to get back to the Imperium.

4 Their price would be by CR not abilities, so while there's some things it would be more expensive, to get on them than on a normal item, there's also things it would be less expensive, to get on them than a normal item.
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[] Essence of Life
-[] There will be a great need for weapons and equipment of supernatural potency in the coming years, perhaps the abundance of corpses can be put to use in the fungus forge? (Progress ??, Cost ??? IM, requires Vee, Requires Livewood sample, and Bronzewood sample,)

Once completed this action would allow us too...

1. Store, create, and use "recipes" for biotechnology (grafts, Symbionts , and certain creature's)
2. Use biomass to create symbionts similar to standard magical or mundane items.
3. Reduce difficulty of future fleshcrafting research projects

Create creatures are plant type, true neutral, usually not sentient

So whats everybody think? Gold cost? Time cost? Material or companion cost?
 
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Goldfish said:
I'm not exaggerating. I'm just trying to condense what Azel and DP conveyed to us into a single post.

Bahamut is not the type to condone working with Devils. That's not in dispute.
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Respectfully, I feel there is insufficient data to make that assertion, especially considering the last few story updates, and I dispute some of the underlying assumptions/conclusions, about Devils free from Hell, that lead to your post here.

That said, it is a moot point considering that I doubt (and I will campaign against) we will be talking to Bahamut anyway. I have made my request, and you explained that your wording was informed by your perspective and not hyperbole. Thank you.
 
egoo said:
Alright, so...
My watch has started.

And to be completely honest, I would take a year at the Wall, over a month taking care of 5-year-olds.

5 days a week/10-12 hours a day, and all for a measly 3k rubles... 45.8 dollars, or about so.

Mandatory part of my course as a teacher, that.
Total shit that is going to kill me dead inside, and doesn't even pay half as much as simply going there on public transport takes, too.

How's that relevant?
Well, weekends aside, I am likely going to be unavailable throughout most of the day, unexpected breaks aside.
I'm not likely to take part in turn-vote-crafting (and damn it, I wanted to :( ), nor would I be capable reading scrupulously through every page as I usually do.

If any of you has an idea about a Minor Action or a Research action - @'m me in thread, or PM me, I'll try to keep those resolved.

@DragonParadox, @Azel, please keep an eye on MAs. Those done personally by Viserys aside, we still have a pile-y of those to resolve this month, and next one it's unlikely to get much better.
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There are many reasons I teach college instead of anything earlier, and this is one of those reasons - I could not deal with that. You have my utmost respect, and my best wishes for your sanity.
 
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