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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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Well, at least this confirms what Exalted has already tought us: If you are loosing social combat, starting actual combat is the only reasonable choice left.

They can't argue if you tear out their lungs.
 
I'm dead serious by the way.
She is not winning this encounter. She has not even scratched us since Azel took the Initiative right at the beginning while her own defences are very low by now.

To any player loosing this clearly I can only recommend to retreat (she could cast Planeshift or Word of Recall right now) or to radically change strategy, since right now she's as effective as a Fighter attacking an Ooze with bludgeoning weapons.

Flight or physical fight are her only options to avoid defeat.
 
Artemis1992 said:
I'm dead serious by the way.
She is not winning this encounter. She has not even scratched us since Azel took the Initiative right at the beginning while her own defences are very low by now.

To any player loosing this clearly I can only recommend to retreat (she could cast Planeshift or Word of Recall right now) or to radically change strategy, since right now she's as effective as a Fighter attacking an Ooze with bludgeoning weapons.

Flight or physical fight are her only options to avoid defeat.
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I don't think I've ever looked at "social combat" with so much of an emphasis on combat :/
 
TalonofAnathrax said:
> When your greatest contribution to the quest has been utterly forgotten, you remain second-best shitposter in the thread, AND the n°1 shitposter taunts you about it
:cry::cry::cry::cry:
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And I don't even get mentioned.
:/

Looking at my amount of posts in thread, compared to how long I was here, I daresay I shitpost more than you two together.
 
Crake said:
It would have been pretty fucked, but given this lot, this is mostly a timeline powered by Narrativium. I am fairly certain while it is possible we wouldn't have burnt all bridges with the Golden Company, the moment we sussed up to something fishy going on IC (most of us would have already known OOC) we would have investigated, found some of the rot, digged deeper, and probably dodge an assassination and immediately gone full paranoia.

After that it would have been seeing who could be salvaged and who had to... disappear.

It would have definitely been a darker story though. Fewer friends and thus a much less strong support network, which for Targaryens is... bad news. Viserys is a perfectionist. Given how utterly fucked things could be by that point, you are looking at someone who is staring at a vista of utter stupidity, incompetence and madness.

I am fairly certain that Viserys only seems as sane as he does because he can carefully trim and manage everything around him like a freakish bonzai garden the size of a kingdom, soon to be an entire reality.
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Mmmm.

I don't know actually. We had fun doing the classic adventurer thing in braavos.

I think it is more his trauma concerning his father than any genetic OCD.
 
zxzx24 said:
Mmmm.

I don't know actually. We had fun doing the classic adventurer thing in braavos.

I think it is more his trauma concerning his father than any genetic OCD.
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I would have argued that originally, but DP confirmed that Targaryen madness is a thing and it's something pretty much all of them have to grapple with.

Just, in the way that it manifests, it either A) is a milder form of it, so mundane in its fixation as to be called harmless, or B) the person afflicted by it is constructive or productive in the manner in which it manifests.

See Dany, who's fully been made aware of her failings and weaknesses and tries to turn it into a strength.

Or Viserys, who still makes time to live and enjoy life despite the crippling amounts of responsibility piled upon his shoulders.
 
Crake said:
I would have argued that originally, but DP confirmed that Targaryen madness is a thing and it's something pretty much all of them have to grapple with.

Just, in the way that it manifests, it either A) is a milder form of it, so mundane in its fixation as to be called harmless, or B) the person afflicted by it is constructive or productive in the manner in which it manifests.

See Dany, who's fully been made aware of her failings and weaknesses and tries to turn it into a strength.

Or Viserys, who still makes time to live and enjoy life despite the crippling amounts of responsibility piled upon his shoulders.
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Targ madness.

...mmm...

That's probably gotta worry Viserys. Combined with the red dragon blood and dreams...

Him wanting to gengineer his children was mostly a meme on my part.
 
zxzx24 said:
Targ madness.

...mmm...

That's probably gotta worry Viserys. Combined with the red dragon blood and dreams...

Him wanting to gengineer his children was mostly a meme on my part.
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It's a valid concern for someone who has to grapple with the idea that they will be targeted viciously upon being born.

If there weren't a myriad amount of concerns about raising them, a demiplane where they aged twice as fast might not be an undue measure to take.

Of course that's not viable. I mean you would basically need to find a way to make fourteen years pass in one month real time inside of a Demiplane before it would be worth it, since that is the maximum amount of time we could "set aside" real time pretty much ever.

The demiplane would also have to be quite large to avoid going stir crazy over the course of a decade.

Oh man, the mad science ideas that go into trying to safely have kids in the face of numerous enemies.
 
zxzx24 said:
Targ madness.

...mmm...

That's probably gotta worry Viserys. Combined with the red dragon blood and dreams...

Him wanting to gengineer his children was mostly a meme on my part.
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The Dragon blood is the madness and I would not say all Targs suffer from it, just all great Targs or those who would be great. The fire can go out like with king Aenys or an unfortunately number of female Targaryen who were simply smothered by the social expectations of their gender and class. However once the fire does burn strong it's madness or greatness, and sometimes a bit of both.
 
DragonParadox said:
The Dragon blood is the madness and I would not say all Targs suffer from it, just all great Targs or those who would be great. The fire can go out like with king Aenys or an unfortunately number of female Targaryen who were simply smothered by the social expectations of their gender and class. However once the fire does burn strong it's madness or greatness, and sometimes a bit of both.
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Madness and greatness are two sides of the same coin. Every time a Targaryen is born, the gods toss a coin in the air and the world holds its breath to see how it will land.

- Jahaerys II Targaryen, A Storm of Swords​
 
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Vote closed.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Feb 15, 2019 at 2:54 AM, finished with 279112 posts and 12 votes.
  • [X] Plan Bringing This Home
    -[X] If at any point Viserys thinks it's a good moment to move closer to her to show both physically that a connection is growing and to comfort her, he will do so.
    -[X] "I think, in the end, the important truth is not behind the masks, but before them. A thousand aeons of deathless scholars have not unraveled the truth behind it all, bitter and alone in their endless work. Yet others lived and died all around them, unburdened by the question of what lies beyond the turning of the spheres. No, I think what matters most is what we see when looking at these masks. Not the truth all encompassing, but the truth of our selves." // Saying yes to her question would be easy, but I think it's not actually helping her in any regard. It would just leave he with doubts and might set her on a very destructive path to see them smothered. If destructive for herself or others is the question, but it wouldn't be pretty either way. So let's not give her the answer she wants, but the answer she needs. At her core, Melissandre is an old woman that is looking for the sense behind it all and the great apocalyptic war against a grand enemy is just what someone in her state of mind would latch onto. What she is asking for now is validation of the purpose of her life, so let's give it to her, but in a way that is self-sustaining instead of destructive.
    -[X] "I know not your history Melissandre, nor why you follow R'hllor. What I know is that you have made this choice for a reason. You can force any man or woman to recite a prayer, to serve in chains, but not even the gods an force us to believe. I have seen it tried." Motion to Rina. "And it failed. But when I speak to you, I know that there is conviction behind your words. That this is not a path forced upon you, but one you have chosen and for that and that alone, it is the true path for you. Sometimes we might stumble on way and sometimes despair haunts our steps, but as long as we carry on, as long as we not give in, we will never fail completely." // Basically I'm telling her that it's fine. Coming with logical arguments about philosophical truths was a good way to get her to open up to this point, but right now she is raw with emotion and those need addressing. If she didn't have those doubts about her own path, we would have gotten absolutely nowhere with the arguments so far. At the core, she craves the truth and what shakes her so is the realization that she might have spent her whole life running after the nicest lie instead. So she needs to know that, even if she thinks she failed, that's okay. Stupid mortal who can't comprehend the whole truth, remember that?
    -[X] Trigger Grand Destiny, Divine Insight and throw Mythic Power behind this: "I have seen many things on my travels, both wondrous and appalling. I've spoken with angels and devils. Once I stood before R'hllor himself and argued about the fate of two friends with him. Another time I spat in the face of hell itself, to gain the freedom of a woman I barely knew then. I've seen the shades of gods from times long forgotten, whispering to me with their last dying breaths, and another who, after an eternity of torment, had the will to cast off his pain and hatred to be reborn pure again. And if I have any truth to share from all these things, then it is thus: There is always a choice and it is these choices who we are. Light and dark, virtue and sin, temptation and resolve. It is this what the masks mean in the end, but it is on us to see what each masks means and to choose between them. And if it is the light you seek and found it in R'hllor, then I would gladly call you ally, mayhaps even friend some day, but know that never I will begrudge a man or woman if they found the light in other teachings." // Hope, this is Mel. Mel, this is Hope. Please be nice to each other. In the end, this is the mother of all authority arguments. We've witnessed enough divine shenanigans to know very well what we are talking about, but the important matter at hand here is the core of choice. Remember how we've met Vee? She gruesomely killed a few people, but they were assholes and she was lashing out at them while being depressed. Or Xor? The guy who thought he would do Lys a favor and finally have some friends by cooking up a zombie plague for an insane Vampire? Yeah. The nicest eyeball in the universe is a mass-murderer. And this is ultimately what the whole faith debate boils down to. We don't care if you follow this god or that, we care if you are cutting people open to feat on their organs. We take exception to that. Likewise, we take exception when you set people on fire for saying something you didn't like. Some gods will ask for that kind of nonsense, but as long as R'hllor doesn't, then we've got no issues. And as for Mel, if she really cares about the Light and Dark showdown, about the Good and the Truth and the Order and all that, then there is nothing wrong with her or her faith. And this is why I bring up Best Coatl here. He left behind the things he knew he didn't need. So can others.
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Are We the Baddies
  • Media
    • @ Setting off bioweapons at Lannisport, destroying the livelihood of thousands only tangentially connected to Lannisters.
    @ Summoning hundreds of fiends, sacrificing most at blood rituals and having the rest serve us
    @ Killing hundreds of slave soldiers in order to further our political agenda at Lys, mercilessly killing hundreds of soldiers of Golden Company at Essaria
    @ Gambling with the fate of the whole realm by summoning the Archduke of Third Hell in the flesh
    @ Leading priests of various religions to heresies and apostasy, sometimes in as much as a few sentences
    ---Edit, new as of December 2020---
    @ Summoning thousands of fiends, and using them in a blood sacrifice of the scale not seen even in Valyria - all to kill a single Fey court.
    @ Actively supporting our minions in twisting the laws of reality and literally becoming Abominations of all that is Good and natural.
    @ Making our own Space Marines Stormcast Eternals Praetorians complete with a Primarch.
    @ Supporting both sides of the clash of the Emperors in Yi-Ti, willing to do business with either until a sure winner is found- and ensuring whoever's winning is amiable for further interaction with us afterward. Meanwhile, hundreds and thousands die.
    @ Helping Cersei succeed with at least one of her plans, allowing her to kill Robert... By having his soul sucked out by a servant of the Void. And it being death by Snu-snu. Eugh.
    @ Doing business with Mind Flayers.
    @ When pulled into time-travel scheme, deliberately creating paradoxes to profit off.
    @ Eating energy fields larger than our head.


     
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    • DragonParadox said:
    The Dragon blood is the madness and I would not say all Targs suffer from it, just all great Targs or those who would be great. The fire can go out like with king Aenys or an unfortunately number of female Targaryen who were simply smothered by the social expectations of their gender and class. However once the fire does burn strong it's madness or greatness, and sometimes a bit of both.
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    > Implying female Targaryens can be smothered by gender and class


    > mfw


    No! They simply had superior forms of madness! The foolish menfolk focused on shit like ruling - but the ladies know the true sin is Gluttony! Daena the pious? More like Daena the peppered! Gimme some burning hot spices only a Dragon could endure, or face the social-fu of a Targaryen Queen! What's the point of perfect Valyrian genetics if you can't eat without getting fat? Thousands of slave babies died making catgirl test subjects with those hiplines, so don't let them go to waste!

    Daenerys and Viserys like chocolate? Clearly they got it from their mother! You didn't think Robert's spending could be enough to bankrupt the realm, did you?

    /jk
     
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    Duesal said:
    Somehow I will find a way to make blood magic power everything.
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    Memory/Skill implants.

    Azel said:
    No. There is an Epic level Apostate Devil sitting in Baator right now and furiously taking notes of what we just pulled. It took us literal minutes from meeting her to breaking her faith.

    And if she goes now, he might just swoop in and capitalize on us having done 95% of his job for him.
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    So - Asmodeus recruitment of Viserys upcoming?
    One Autumn Leaf said:
    Is it wrong that amongst all this analysis I want to make a meme where we are breaking her faith like Bane broke Batman's back?
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    We need a new tag: "Converting gods: another Tuesday"
     
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    Duesal said:
    omehow I will find a way to make blood magic power everything.
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    Read the Fiendish Codex. Remember that with Miracle, material components are no real issue. Start summoning devils, stealing their stats to buff our people, make magic items to automate the process, and then sacrifice the weakened devils (but who have lost no HD!) for blood magic loot (TM).
     
    DragonParadox said:
    Just killing those sworn to her, particularly dragons should do it.
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    She's a bitch but you have to give her props where it's due.

    Goldfish said:
    As I said earlier, even if the Dominate Monster effect from Orb of Red Dragonkind were able to completely bypass the protection provided by Mind Blank and Protection from Evil, not to mention Wings of Cover, it only has a Will save DC of 25.

    Viserys' resting Will save bonus, without any extra buffs from his own spells, Dany's Persistomancy, etc., is +23, or +25 vs Evil. Add the +6 from using the Spirit aspect of Channel Vigor and the +10 from Dany's Persistomancy and that increases to +39, or +41 vs Evil.

    Even with no magic at all, assuming Viserys has been stripped of his gear or it has all been Disjoined, and he is benefiting from no buff spells, his Will save bonus would be +22.

    Then there are other considerations to take into account. For example, Nine Lives allows him to make another save should his first fail. He's also in the company of several allies capable of casting Alter Fortune, which could allow yet another saving throw.

    I hope this better explains why I'm not concerned about the Orb being used to control Viserys?

    EDIT: And Viserys has Grand Destiny active, so that would provide another +4 bonus to resist the effect.
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    While I get what you are saying, if DP is doing the maybe game with its capabilities to pierce wards I'm not super comfortable assuming it has the base save DC. It might even slap a huge negative modifier on True Dragons because it was made to fight them and its effects on diluted reds is, ya know, diluted.

    I do very much appreciate you stepping out your thoughts.
     
    R'hllor be like:
    "I know! I will send Mel after him! She has unshakeable faith in me and centuries worth of experience manipulating people. She will manage to snare that damn dragon!"

    *5 minutes later*

     
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