Everyone needs to calm the fuck down. This state of affairs has existed for millenia, and it won't suddenly end all existence tomorrow just because we failed to throw enough troops at it.
We don't matter to this conflict, at least not yet (and not militarily).
This doesn't change our order of priorities much, just our long-term plans.

And QMs, way to make Planetosi threats like the Others and the Empire of the Dawn more important again :D

For a moment the Deva lowers his head and for a heartbeat you fear to see a repeat of Yrael's fall.
This would have been amazing though. Imagine being able to make Celestials Fall on command? :D :D :D

Objections to temporally enhanced Greater Demiplane for accelerated crafting?
Yes. You're opening a huge can of worms here. Why isn't everyone else doing this ?
Honestly I'm against even trying.

Also, I want to design a scaled down Wyvern, one with less features and no living pilot, but instead a purpose built Construct. A great deal of expense can be eliminated if they don't need life support and don't have Planar travel capabilities of their own.

They can be transported the traditional way, or hitch rides on Moonchaser and similar craft. I'll have to look into the numbers when I get home this evening, but we should be able to produce several for the price of a single Wyvern.
Everyone, no Construct armies. DP will punish us if we try.
It's already been established that there are spells and items that can effortlessly take control of most Constructs, and I expect various artefacts or mighty rituals to work even better (huge range, etc).
It's been a fixture of the setting that Construct armies don't work, and DP explicitly said that he didn't want us to create any last time we asked.

I will ally with Asmodeus in a heartbeat so long as we can make that Void go away.

Pretty much, though the pilot Construct would be distinct from the drone craft.

That is a cost saving measure and a way to allow the craft to be enchanted separately from the pilot Constructs.

It would be nice if each Wyvern had a flight of three or four drones as wingmen. I'm gonna call them Drakes for now.
Again, I'm against this. Very much against this.

Yeah. We've been taking things carefully - for good reasons - but the situation is officially FUBAR and we need every asset we can possibly enlist. I imagine we're going to have to swallow our bile and make some concessions - this dumb slap-fight with the Seven, for instance. There's no reason for them to be locked out of the loop, and if getting them tentatively on board means letting the Faith Militant reform ...
Things aren't FUBAR though. Not at all. This slow decay of the upper planes has been going on for eons, and isn't over yet. Fighting the Seven looks like it sucks now, but we're also saving other Gods so that's less of an issue. It's also an important strategic objective for us.
We don't we ally with Asmodeus? Surely he'd help us!
Maybe, but he'd be a bigger problem than a help, so we won't.
Same sort of reasoning for the Seven.

Also, anyone else suspect the OG might have been created by ancient mortals who were seeking a place to keep their souls rather than trusting them to end up somewhere other than Hell or the sucking black pit that used to be Heaven?
[Waves hand in the air]
Yes, I called it ages ago.
This is clearly a path to immortality for Greenseers, and a way for the souls of all to avoid Hell.

Against a target with an even con score, wounding deals damage equal to its HD.

Nowhere near hundreds of points, unless the target has hundreds of hp.

Against an odd score, it doesn't even deal damage.

Don't see the issue of getting another, what, 15-20 HP out of it, half the time he lands a crit.
I was thinking of massive Epic HP-bags here. Sure optimally we'd just Avasculate, but this is Richard's Epic Sword and it should be good for killing Colossal+ sized living mountains :D

Bloodraven already said the Plane of Earth should be fine for a start.
I think they meant "what if someone uses the tree to harm the OG", which is always possible on the Plane of Balance anyway.

However, please don't try to push the 15th into the Void.
That would effectively give the Void a sympathetic connection to us and to our blood, and I don't want the Void linked to everything Valyrian.
 
You would have to get a look at Nirvana and Elysium first. Heaven seems calm enough from what the angels, fallen and otherwise, told you.
In that case we should establish contact with a surviving faction of Heaven, all the Upper Planes sound like they could use help, and if our Legionaires are actually strong enough to help Heaven, then that's a good place to start.

This also mean that all those plans we have, to not keep expanding how many Legionaires we train should be thrown out, there's enough work for any amount of troops we can train here.

I think this should cause a paradigm shift, in where we are taking our empire, we need to reconsider mass reincarnation, both because apparently the afterlife is a lot less certain, to give you what you deserve than we thought, and because with all this going on in the Upper Planes, well we need all the help we can get to fix it, which mean we need as much population as possible, and with how deserted the Upper Planes are, there are plenty of space for building new things there.

Then there's the fact we need to reconsider old grudges, can we afford not allying with Bahamut due to old grudges, and is it suddenly worth it to help him recreate Metallics, as while they might become future rivals, they will also most definitely be allies, in helping reclaim the Upper Planes.

Heck I'm reconsidering my stance, on letting the Fey have the Gardeners crown, we still can't let them have it without a deal, but I think we need to consider letting them have it for less than total fealty, if they will in exchange, swear to send help to the Upper Planes.

Maybe let them have the Crown, in return for an agreement, that the authority you can go to, if you feel tricked about a Feypact is Viserys not the Fey king, provided the pact was made within Imperial lands, so we acknowledge the Fey king as a peer, with his realm being the Feylands, and our realm being our Realm, and in return, they agree that disagreements in our lands, should be handled by our law and people.

Or some other deal, but with how fucked up this is, I think we need to come to some kind of deal with the Fey, even if that deal is less advantageous than we hoped for.
 
I'm telling you people are going to be pissed at us if we pull him away from his job for longer.

MAYBE YOU SHOULD ACTUALLY LISTEN TO WHAT I AM SAYING THIS TIME.

Fuck azel even said he wouldn't be any help because he's been doing his incredibly crucial and important job!

I'm going to step in here before things can get too heated. You guys can just cast telepathic bond and plane-shift to the astral with him. That way he can do his job and you can talk to him thoughout.
 
...Huh.
All those souls...
And Merling Kind is dealing with them.
I think... We might just want to have all our gods take part in ritual, and keep the souls safe-ish.

This is something I completely agree with, it does nothing to free the imprisoned souls if they just end up being swallowed by the Abyss.

Also I think that what we found out may be the leverage we need to make the utilitarian argument that would shift Stannis into a follower of the Storm God.
 
This is actually a good idea.
No, it's not. That's a ton of wasted XP, and we've seen enough recently that it's obvious Viserys needs to level up again ASAP.

Also, chill on the Deva guide, dude. He's not the last of his kind, and distraction him for a few hours won't hurt. We freed him from eons of captivity, and have really important shit to learn. A tiny sliver of his time won't be missed.
 
This is something I completely agree with, it does nothing to free the imprisoned souls if they just end up being swallowed by the Abyss.

Also I think that what we found out may be the leverage we need to make the utilitarian argument that would shift Stannis into a follower of the Storm God.
I think the issue was more 'make sure the merling king doesn't nab them all as payment.'
 
I think they meant "what if someone uses the tree to harm the OG", which is always possible on the Plane of Balance anyway.

However, please don't try to push the 15th into the Void.
That would effectively give the Void a sympathetic connection to us and to our blood, and I don't want the Void linked to everything Valyrian.
What the... I don't want to push the 15th into the Void? :confused: At most I was going to try to feed him to Yss or grow a fire-proof tree over his corpse.
I'm going to step in here before things can get too heated. You guys can just cast telepathic bond and plane-shift to the astral with him. That way he can do his job and you can talk to him thoughout.
It doesn't work across planes. If he has an emergency he direly needs to attend to then we understand and wish him well, but I don't see the harm in asking him to help get our foot in the door here. He doesn't even need to stick around for the talks, he can just make introductions then take off.
Everyone, no Construct armies. DP will punish us if we try.
It's already been established that there are spells and items that can effortlessly take control of most Constructs, and I expect various artefacts or mighty rituals to work even better (huge range, etc).
It's been a fixture of the setting that Construct armies don't work, and DP explicitly said that he didn't want us to create any last time we asked.
Do Warforged count? Because I wanted to make a lot of those.
 
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It doesn't work across planes. If he has an emergency he direly needs to attend to then we understand and wish him well, but I don't see the harm in asking him to help get our foot in the door here. He doesn't even need to stick around for the talks, he can just make introductions then take off.

Hence why I suggested plane shifting with him, you guys would be standing in the middle of the astral sea while he goes on his journeys. Mind it would not be a great difference on a cosmic scale, but it might save a few souls.
 
Hence why I suggested plane shifting with him, you guys would be standing in the middle of the astral sea while he goes on his journeys. Mind it would not be a great difference on a cosmic scale, but it might save a few souls.
I'm confused, though. How does this help us get to the city on Heaven's Shore and establish ties with the inhabitants if we're floating in the Astral Sea?
 
Why are we panicking? This situation has been going on for a while right? So what is the panic? I say we stick to the goals. Slowly build-up our forces, our colonies, our mages, get more gods on our side and keep them in line with the Imperium, keep the promises made and when we are ready, fight this too. Y'all are acting like the world is going to end in a year or something. It isn't. This shit has been going on for a while. Calm down. The current course we are taking is fine.
 
Everyone needs to calm the fuck down. This state of affairs has existed for millenia, and it won't suddenly end all existence tomorrow just because we failed to throw enough troops at it.
We don't matter to this conflict, at least not yet (and not militarily).
This doesn't change our order of priorities much, just our long-term plans.

And QMs, way to make Planetosi threats like the Others and the Empire of the Dawn more important again :D


This would have been amazing though. Imagine being able to make Celestials Fall on command? :D :D :D


Yes. You're opening a huge can of worms here. Why isn't everyone else doing this ?
Honestly I'm against even trying.


Everyone, no Construct armies. DP will punish us if we try.
It's already been established that there are spells and items that can effortlessly take control of most Constructs, and I expect various artefacts or mighty rituals to work even better (huge range, etc).
It's been a fixture of the setting that Construct armies don't work, and DP explicitly said that he didn't want us to create any last time we asked.




Again, I'm against this. Very much against this.


Things aren't FUBAR though. Not at all. This slow decay of the upper planes has been going on for eons, and isn't over yet. Fighting the Seven looks like it sucks now, but we're also saving other Gods so that's less of an issue. It's also an important strategic objective for us.
We don't we ally with Asmodeus? Surely he'd help us!
Maybe, but he'd be a bigger problem than a help, so we won't.
Same sort of reasoning for the Seven.


[Waves hand in the air]
Yes, I called it ages ago.
This is clearly a path to immortality for Greenseers, and a way for the souls of all to avoid Hell.


I was thinking of massive Epic HP-bags here. Sure optimally we'd just Avasculate, but this is Richard's Epic Sword and it should be good for killing Colossal+ sized living mountains :D


I think they meant "what if someone uses the tree to harm the OG", which is always possible on the Plane of Balance anyway.

However, please don't try to push the 15th into the Void.
That would effectively give the Void a sympathetic connection to us and to our blood, and I don't want the Void linked to everything Valyrian.
I don't want Construct armies, dude. I want Construct pilots to fly cheaper aero-space fighter drone craft. This would number, at most into the high dozens or low hundreds, and would take a lot of time to build.

Sentient Constructs are still much less vulnerable to mind control that meat people, and those spells which can control sentient Constructs are much more limited than their meat controlling counterparts, either in availability or scope.
 
This would have been amazing though. Imagine being able to make Celestials Fall on command? :D :D :D
It would have been horrible, if we could do it, then anyone with a high diplomacy score would have been able to do it, do you really want Celestials to be so easy to get to fall?
Everyone, no Construct armies. DP will punish us if we try.
It's already been established that there are spells and items that can effortlessly take control of most Constructs, and I expect various artefacts or mighty rituals to work even better (huge range, etc).
It's been a fixture of the setting that Construct armies don't work, and DP explicitly said that he didn't want us to create any last time we asked.
Construct armies are indeed a bad idea, now Fungus Forge armies, those might be worth considering, it's expensive as heck, but we can use the Fungus Forge, to make up to CR10 beings at the cost of money.
 
What the... I don't want to push the 15th into the Void? :confused: At most I was going to try to feed him to Yss or grow a fire-proof tree over his corpse.
Sorry, I think you mentioned the idea a few pages ago.

Do Warforged count? Because I wanted to make a lot of those.
Warforged are sentient beings, so I would ask @DragonParadox what he thinks.
You've said "no Construct armies in this setting". Are you fine with Warforged armies, or will you bite us in the ass if we try?

Hence why I suggested plane shifting with him, you guys would be standing in the middle of the astral sea while he goes on his journeys. Mind it would not be a great difference on a cosmic scale, but it might save a few souls.
That sounds like a really cool interlude :D
 
Sorry, I think you mentioned the idea a few pages ago.
I just said the 15th wants to die. I certainly don't intend to listen to him. Him going anywhere near the Void gets a hell no from me.
Oh right, I though you just wanted to ask him questions. Some of Yrael's archons know their way around Heaven's Shore a bit too if you want to call on them
That'll also work. He can go on his way then.
 
The best thing about the Fungus Forge is that if we can make it a point of recognized dogma that being buried beneath the Fungus Forge is a faithful act for the OG, then we can get an entire Free City's worth of dead people.
Then we toss in a strong monster every so often, so that every batch of created creatures have a half-decent CR.
 
Discussion into the existential horror that is the greater cosmos is all well and good, y'all, but we need to get some voting done now.
 
For the record: Stationing troops in Heaven would require the approval of the local garrison commander. Who is a Pit Fiend directly sworn to Asmodeus.
 
For the record: Stationing troops in Heaven would require the approval of the local garrison commander. Who is a Pit Fiend directly sworn to Asmodeus.
Wait Heaven is still under Baator's control? Damn it that's just as bad as any of the others, just in a different more stable way, I guess Heaven should wait for last then.
 
[X] Ask what Tyangyl knows of the Sundering itself, if he has any clues as to how the Void shattered the planes.
-[X] Ask Tyangyl of the divine realms of all the main deities in the Imperium and their approximate locations in the Astral Sea (R'hllor, Weeping Lady, Moonsinger Goddess, Yss, Merling King, the Seven, etc.)
-[X] Ask Tyangyl of the locations of the various horrors he's encountered in his duties (that we might either avoid them or put an end to them when we have time).
-[X] If possible, ask Tyangyl to send lost celestials who for whatever reason can't stay in the outer planes our way to attempt to band together. We're trying to create a safe haven for them in Prime Material, starting with Mantarys.
-[X] As thanks for his help, offer him a Stalwart Pact and Renewal Pact to aid in his duty.
-[X] Call on one of Yrael's Archons to introduce you to the inhabitants of the City by Heaven's Shore, then leave with your friends to attempt to establish ties.
Updated vote.
 
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