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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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Azel said:
Yes. There might be a few tiny groups trying to eke out a living elsewhere, but Heaven's Shore is the only settlement worthy of the title. In no small part because that Legion of Hell is keeping away the Daemons and Far Spawn.
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Well we can hopefully work on that.

I mean it's not like the legions of hell would ever sabotage their competitors. Even if it cost the people depending on them everything right :V.

I'm gonna go. For a bit.

I have little doubt Baator is attempting to hamper whatever rebuilding efforts were being made, but WHY is worth looking into. There might be something exploitable there.
 
To get you guys some perspective again: This is the state of affairs since time immemorial. Valyria rose and fell while this was the state of the Outer Planes. Proto-Valyria, the thing ruled by Red Dragons, also rose and fell while this was the state of the Outer Planes.

This is ancient history. The world isn't dying right now, it has been dying for millenia. It won't collapse on it's own next week just because you now know about it.
 
Paradosi said:
Isn't a Pit Fiend in charge of things there? I'm not too sure what help a Deva is meant to be?

Are we trying to start an insurrection or someting?

Edit: One of Yrael's Archons makes me say yes. Asmodeus might be ticked off if we do though...
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We're not trying to start an insurrection. That's insane. We don't have the time or the resources yet. At most we just want to make a few contacts and possibly some mutually beneficial trade agreements. Once that's done we go back home and focus on our more immediate problems.
 
egoo said:
So, rough asessment of threats/goals...

1) Tiamat and Golden Company. Actively seeking out an alliance with Emperor of Yi-Ti. Will become near unremoveable if they get it. Have dragons.
2) Illithids. 4(?) major bases on Plane of Balance, including an army-breeding complex, and a facility dealing with time-manipulation. Unknown amount of outposts (that we, however, can divine on).

In the meantime:
0.1) Essarian Undead. Large groups of mindless undead, some very salty sentient undead controlling them. Seems to have been coaxed into operating by Golden Company.
0.2) Ymeri/Lollth/Harpy Queen/Black Goat/Sseth/Drunken God/varied other dumbass deities on PoB that need to have their cults dismantled.
0.3) Fey of Court of Stars. May be allies, but we need to be very careful with them, and certainly not rezz their King, however much they will promise us an alliance for that.
0.4) The 15th. Just wants to die, and that's very bad because Greater Void is coming, and he's very likely to do everything he can to hasten that shit.
0.5) Warlocks of Quarth (who seem to be doing some very bad things right now, but are far enough from us to not feel them yet)
0.6) Drow are a thing. Sothoryos is shit in general though, and Riz'neth's people will need our help regardless.

3) Brazen Throne. Will likely be done in 5-7 months (based off the timeline given to us by Shaitan spymaster on infiltrating the city). Need to be done efficiently, since we will need as many forces of Djinn and Shaitan avalaible.
4) Westeros. We need our army ready to take it as blodlessly as we can, because otherwise we'll just have a resource sink, in face of all other bullshit.
4.1) Lannisters have some dragons, lots of gold, and connections to extraplanar mercanaries.
4.2) Most of Chosen of Seven aren't set on cooperating, and we generally need to deal with their faith.
4.3) Maesters are scheming.

Overarching threats:
a) Others and Greater Void. Seem to have an in to attack Yi TI according to rumors we heard (and people there have no idea for what shit they are inbound). Have massive amount of barrows laid around. Will take countrol of all Undead around by the time they attack.
a.1) Very least we can do, is to evacuate literally everything beyond the Wall.
b) Daemons. Want to fuck shit up, will likely appear at any times they can.
c) Demons. See above, only because of "CHAOS CHAOS!" and not "Life is shit, I want all to die"
d) Devils. Mammon is our main enemy right now, with Dispater being likely to move agaisnt us (with us saving Zathir and taking Siduri's oath).
e) Bloodstone Emperor is a God, and has countless Rakshasa. Any bets if he's going to fuck shit up?


TLDR: We should continue doing what we were doing.
Kill off tiamat's forces, deal with PoB-illithids, fuck up Brazen throne...
While looking into dealing with the 15th.
Like, seriously, he's a Divine proponent of Greater Void destroying reality. If only so he can die.

Panicking doesn't help at all, and unless we are keeping to our course efficiently, we'll not get enough forces to do anything.

@Goldfish, @Duesal, seems about right?
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Actually, I think I know whom to ask if I missed anything/anyone.

@Azel?
:V
IC we should keep this all in mind, constantly...
 
Azel said:
To get you guys some perspective again: This is the state of affairs since time immemorial. Valyria rose and fell while this was the state of the Outer Planes. Proto-Valyria, the thing ruled by Red Dragons, also rose and fell while this was the state of the Outer Planes.

This is ancient history. The world isn't dying right now, it has been dying for millenia. It won't collapse on it's own next week just because you now know about it.
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Which don't mean we wont be working to find a way to change it, we know we have time, but this still shows us the stakes are higher than we thought, they haven't become more urgent, but they are much higher than we thought.
Duesal said:
We're not trying to start an insurrection. That's insane. We don't have the time or the resources yet. At most we just want to make a few contacts and possibly some mutually beneficial trade agreements. Once that's done we go back home and focus on our more immediate problems.
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We are going to do it eventually though, Heaven being under the boot of Hell, just isn't acceptable.

But booting the Devils out of Heaven, is low priority, compared to booting the Daemons and Far Spawn out of the Upper Planes.
 
tarrangar said:
We are going to do it eventually though, Heaven being under the boot of Hell, just isn't acceptable.

But booting the Devils out of Heaven, is low priority, compared to booting the Daemons and Far Spawn out of the Upper Planes.
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All of this is peanuts compared to getting our affairs in order. So let us focus on the ambitions of our home plane before crusading in the Holy Lands. At most our movements here should be to find settlements and refugees, smuggle people(important) back to our plane, and collect bodies to toss into the forge. For now grand plans are made in panic. Let's get the information and then ago from there.
 
Why are we delaying Westeros? If we leave it until there's no chance of interference they'll have more time to consolidate, and they are desperate.

It won't be blodless either way, why not do it now while Tiamat is still on the other side of the world
 
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tarrangar said:
We are going to do it eventually though, Heaven being under the boot of Hell, just isn't acceptable.

But booting the Devils out of Heaven, is low priority, compared to booting the Daemons and Far Spawn out of the Upper Planes.
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Good luck. Nobody has managed that in the last few millennia and many, many have tried their very best.
 
So, the situation can be roughly summed up as:
Real Great Other: "I'm crashing this universe... With no survivors!"

And the plane universe is halfway down to the ground.

Still, it's been falling for literal ages. We need to get our affairs in order before trying to counter-hijack it.
 
Azel said:
Good luck. Nobody has managed that in the last few millennia and many, many have tried their very best.
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As I have said before this situation is downright unacceptable, as the multiverse stands at the moment, if it can't be restored, I personally believe it would be better, to risk destroying it, by doing to the Lower Planes what was done to the Upper Planes, than it is to let it stand as it is now, from how the Multiverse has been described, it's a place of nearly infinitely more pain than joy, and with those ratios, existence really isn't worth it.
 
tarrangar said:
As I have said before this situation is downright unacceptable, as the multiverse stands at the moment, if it can't be restored, I personally believe it would be better, to risk destroying it, by doing to the Lower Planes what was done to the Upper Planes, than it is to let it stand as it is now, from how the Multiverse has been described, it's a place of nearly infinitely more pain than joy, and with those ratios, existence really isn't worth it.
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'There is no hope' and 'better to destroy it all' is practically the greeting card of the Others and those who stand behind them so you should be careful of that sort of reasoning.
 
tarrangar said:
As I have said before this situation is downright unacceptable, as the multiverse stands at the moment, if it can't be restored, I personally believe it would be better, to risk destroying it, by doing to the Lower Planes what was done to the Upper Planes, than it is to let it stand as it is now, from how the Multiverse has been described, it's a place of nearly infinitely more pain than joy, and with those ratios, existence really isn't worth it.
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...I disagree. Even Hellish existence is still an existence, with some free will, some happiness here and there.
Total unexistence... isn't.

kellanved said:
I feel a Westeros with even more time to prepare will be more dangerous than Tiamat
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No. No, it really won't.
Maesters are a problem, and we have to unravel their conspiracy.
Lannisters do have a few high-level PCs and extraplanar contacts (and a few home-grow ndragons).
Various lords aren't going to quitly bow down.

However, we hold all cards at KL thanks to Bloodraven and that... other guy we bought.
We are slowly but surely turning, or ensuring the takedown, of all Lords we need to.

Moving our armies, as unready they are now, to Westeros?
We'll make bloody war and take it.
Tiamat and Illithids will attack us.
Maybe we survive.
We'll lose way more than we'll gain still.
 
DragonParadox said:
'There is no hope' and 'better to destroy it all' is practically the greeting card of the Others and those who stand behind them so you should be careful of that sort of reasoning.
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There is hope yet, from what we have heard the Multiverse can yet be restored, but if that turn out to be wrong, if this is the new eternal order, then the Others were right to say that.
 
egoo said:
...I disagree. Even Hellish existence is still an existence, with some free will, some happiness here and there.
Total unexistence... isn't.
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Personally I would rather not exist, than exist in eternal torment, which mean for me everyone who are trapped in eternal torment, is a minus on the multiverses right to exist, so if there's infinitely more torment than joy, then it's for the greater good to end it, provided there's no hope of changing this fact.
DragonParadox said:
It can't be the eternal order because everything is decaying.
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Okay then if there's no hope of fixing it, if it can only get worse, then it's better to quicken the end, to minimize the suffering before said end.

If there's any hope of reversing things, then that hope is worth fighting for, but if there's no hope, then the only thing to do is to speed the end up.
 
tarrangar said:
Personally I would rather not exist, than exist in eternal torment, which mean for me everyone who are trapped in eternal torment, is a minus on the multiverses right to exist, so if there's infinitely more torment than joy, then it's for the greater good to end it, provided there's no hope of changing this fact.
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...You are literally pulling the 15th right now.
Can you not, please?

Demoralizing, that.

Shit's fucked, yes.
We'll try to fix some of it, too.
If we can't... well, we certainly shouldn't go "fuck this shit, I'm out".

Hell is objectively better than nothingness.
 
tarrangar said:
Personally I would rather not exist, than exist in eternal torment, which mean for me everyone who are trapped in eternal torment, is a minus on the multiverses right to exist, so if there's infinitely more torment than joy, then it's for the greater good to end it, provided there's no hope of changing this fact.
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You say this now, but what about when Viserys frees everyone and brings everyone into heaven for an eternity of joy? Isn't that worth it?

Remember, there is always Hope. That's an inherent trait of Good, and that's why I expect Archons (and everyone who isn't insane, or who is ambitious) to disagree with you utterly.
 
Azel said:
"I will tell you what I told all mortals asking me these question. Keep to your gods. No matter if they are virtuous or wicked, kind or cruel, their realms are the only true havens left for souls now. For in the Outer Spheres, you will find neither mercy or salvation."
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This was like a physical blow.

Why are you both doing such a good job at writing this?
 
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