Duke William of
I really need to finish my quests. :V
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Isn't that currently populated by the Incans rn?
A Reforged World (NO SV, You are King of Italy, in a Greatly Changed World)
- Thread starter Magoose
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- Original Alt. History
It's Peru and Bolivians the Incans are currently at.
And Ecuador. They effectively rule most of the Andean Mountains and the coast West of them.
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I don't remember every little thing in a quest ecpecially after a long hiatus. Even still my point stands, when we are distracted with Atlantic humanitarianism and pissing of Europe, they may believe the new kindom needs to be brought down a peg. Maybe this time with a functioning army.
And we will win by Christmas. Underestimating a uber Habsburgs will be bad and when Charles hears that Luciano is the reason his empire is falling behind then he will strike back. Also it hinges on the idea that other nations (maybe a Spain that's focusing on conquest on an other continent, IDK) will not improve their navy, which is silly. Combined with Gibralter cutting us off and game over. It also ignores the possibility of a land army crossing the Alps and while maybe not wise if Magoose dice has its way will be a nightmare.
And even they will think that war with the Habsburgs in an avoidable war is not smart while we are still trying to cobble the kingdom together and they will tell Luciano to calm down and not fuck over the economy and international relations. Real politics trumps ideology.
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Where am I ignoring a land army threat? I posted fairly recently of constructing fortresses at the border, hiring officers & expanding the army. I'm planning for a land incursion slave trade disruption or not. Charles may go to war with us over the northern slave trade even if we leave the south african slave trade alone.
Our Navy is the largest, most technologically advanced, best lead navy out there. Can they improve the quantity? Sure, though it's a big gap to cover, especially for a spain that loses a big chunk when we take the Spanish canaries. Technology? Very unlikely. There are no genius masters of black powder tech in there nations to compete with Luciano. Leadership? It's us and britain now, and guess who likes us, and canonically has ambitions of conguest of northern Continental Europe, but will probably settle for kingless spain instead? King Henry. I doubt Spain has much that measures up.
Ehh. I'm not sure we'll piss off Europe, other than Spain. French will probably be glad for misfortune for their habsburg neighbors, Holy rome and everyone else has bigger problems.
French might actually send us unofficial help,Britain will send us unofficial help and maybe official help,because if there's one thing above even the law of man and god In Britain its the 2 rules britain always follows ,stick to the French and stick it to the Habsburgs.
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Eh, I think it's still short-sighted to declare war on the Habsburgs. I don't want to spend money on war while there is still things to build and develep. Let's agree to disagree.
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Agree to disagree, but will point out war may be unavoidable as long as the italian navy prevents north African slave trade. Frankly, if it's going to lead to a Hapsburg war either way, no better time than when spain kingless, new spain distant and suffering manpower shortage, Holy Rome recovering from losing a war to french, and both French and England liking us more than the others according to our last check.
Who says that we'll declare War on the Habsburgs? They will declare War on us, if anything.
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If we go out and harass Atlantic slave trading we're all but declaring war.
Sounds like a 'them'-Problem to me.
But we haven't officially declared it, politics are about things like that since much like the roman empire we should never be the ones to declare war but instead make the other guy do it first so he looks like a d#ck and we don't.
One issue is...
Only so many slaves can be aquired by the atlantic slave trade, and well...
And they might feel pressured to threaten war, simply because we are completely shutting down any slave trade in the Mediterranean.
Honestly, not exactly sure when the proclamation about slavery was made in quest. 😅You know when we made that proclamation, all of Europe laughed at us calling us madmen...
They aren't laughing anymore.
Slavery is a scourge that needs to be destroyed.
Even if it can bring economic prosperity. The human suffering that it causes is not a good price to pay.
But alongside as eliminating pirates in our little sea, we also forced the local slave trade to give up on water travel period. We might see some rattle sabering at some point to try and open the Med back up for slave ships.
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And then a very us-problem.
-Spain has colonies in the new world
- To make them profitable (plantation, mines etc.) they need slaves
-First they will use local people but then they die off and they don't have enough kids to replace them
-Thus they import slaves from Africa to replace them
-They buy them from African kingdom in return for Europeans gun/tech
-These slaves die off so they buy new ones from Africa
-repeat
- Now Italian ships are harrasing and destroying """""cargo"""""
-Economy is dying because the mines/plantations are unprofitable due to low labour
They must choose between war with Italy or a dying economy. What do you think Spain is going to do?
They will choose War.
And by all means, they are welcome to try.
If shutting down/seriously gutting the Mediterranean and Atlantic Slave Trade means War with Spain and Charles, I, for one, will GLADLY accept that.
Problem for them is the new world Spain can't easily help old world Spain due to...well the giant ocean,and if they lose main spain or its forced to surrender that would be a massive blow they might not recover from.
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And when our armies crumble and our navies overwhelmed then what? I know slavery is bad but we're not superman. Italy is not a resource rich country and our victory is not assured. Even if our navy is god tier, Gibralter will bottle it up. The great weakness of Italy is geography.
IF. This is all one gigantic gamble that I'm afraid we don't have the means to acomplish. If we lose, we're stuffed because then the slave trade will most likely open again in the Mediterranean.
You are both seriously underestimating us and overestimating Spain.
The Ottomans believed themselves to be invincible, too. Look how that worked out for them.
Besides, the only way Spanish Armies can get to us over land is through France.
And good luck with that. I can guarantee you that the French will aways HATE the Habsburgs a hell of a lot more then they hate us. Plus, with Spain getting so powerful, most of Europe will be far more eager to knock them down than us.
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Look I already said let's agree to disagree. I made my points and you made your points.
You didn't say it to me until now.
But fine, agree to disagree.
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- Reader
We do regrettably need to take Gibralter, at least one island in the spanish canaries, two islands in cape verde, and much of the Bissagos Islands as an opening move, or else hunting slaver ships in the south pacific is costly and inefficient with our lack of ports in western African sea, but that's just war with Spain and Portugal. Most of the hapsburgs are in no position to make war on us.
Though why they would wage war on behalf of an absentee king and a distant nation in south Africa, neither of which aided them against the french, is beyond me. I doubt holy rome is buying slaves from ships sailing the breath of the atlantic, not with charles out bidding them.
Previous quest, rebirth. Ottoman aligned pirates got massacred, leading to the sultan demanding 4000 italians to serve as slaves in compensation, and invading us when Luciano didn't comply , and the Italian Navy took exception to that. Firing into the gut of african slave trade has become integral piece of service in the Italian navy at this point.
Which is why our opening move is conquering Gibralter, and a number of islands for naval basing beyond the mediterranean. Then Gibralter is our base to keep the spanish out.
Yes, because your looking at this as italy against the whole world, with an inevitable rallying of all sides who somehow overcome the tech gap, expand their fleets rabidly despite their many prevailing issues italy lacks, and us failing to address any of the few problems we have that leave us weak.
Your approaching this from an incredibly pessimistic outlook that ignores the states of the various nations around us, our potential allies, and standing as the best off nation in the northern hemisphere right now. It's not going to be easy, but it's going to be achievable and worthwhile, and possibly unavoidable. Better to attack when no one is expecting it than have a war sprung on us later. It has a lot going for it politically and isn't going to get fucked over by typical campaign issues like conquering everywhere or dividing the spoils. T
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...And while not mentioned, the interests of mainland spain and Charles doesn't exactly align at the moment.
Charles is basically building himself a personal empire in the new world, and mainland spain is kinda just going along at the moment only because they are still benefitting from ties with the rising empire.
They could. But honestly, short of Charles returning and showing commitment towards his homeland, there is chance we could exploit the situation and turn them against Charles should he decide to go to war to secure the manpower he needs.
Gioco Di Guerra
Demand Charles to come back home and deal with it.
Gioco Di Guerra
Figlio Stratega, an Officer of His Majesty's Royal Forces of Italy, looks at the nearly empty meeting room with a frown.
Today is the set time and place for the weekly-held meetings that coordinated many officers of the Italian Military to dictate potential paths towards reforms – with the humiliation of the Army in their performance during the Italo-Ottoman War leading towards a budget-bias towards the Italian Navy and their Naval Academies throwing tantrums at each other.
With the Italian Navy receiving more of an increased budget than the Army will ever have unless convincing the Parliament and Senate for a second chance to prove themselves with an overhaul to their spending to be as equal as the Navy, led to the lessened numbers of potential applicants as the Navy is more shed in the positive to the people's eyes than the failed Military state.
So far at the moment, the Italian Army is understaffed, with the majority still being mercenary veterans that decided to join the Military for consistent pay and to be able to settle down rather than moving place to place for more questionable customers. The rest being newbies that were appointed to their high positions through these Old Guard Officers..He is part of the new generation.
While Mercenaries can be compared to an actual Army of a nation (with Italy practically and officially the only country to have one), they do not mean they are professional enough to not cause any grievances to the common people in a proper way and instead act like brutes that think they own the place..
That leads back to the issue of being seen in a negative viewpoint by the population.
Figlio pinches the bridge of his nose in irritation at the dire straits of the Italian Army before turning his sights at the current chess game that was being played between his few colleagues.
'An idiotic game that pretends to be a battlefield is fought on a chess game that has no meaning.' He thinks to himself with a frown. 'While a game that teaches strategy, it does not take into account different factors that can make the difference between victory and defeat.' He glares at the board game with disdain.
'Chess is a beginner's game.' He thinks to himself bitterly..remembering of the past operations that the Italian Army fought in against the Ottomans when he was just a Pikeman. Opportunities not taken due to the commander's focus towards a turn-based fairness that is practised by most of Europe..often even utilising Chess to showcase their plans for their soldiers to understand.
How he could wish to do away with a static system, one that encourages nations to lose against others on the basis of 'Chivalry'..
He stands out from the chair, and heads towards the other room that has maps being placed in storage. He looks through the different types of maps and its different locations before stumbling on one that shows the physical features and the overall defensive layout of the City of Rome. Once thinking over it, he brings it back to the meeting room and notices some of his colleagues looking at him with curiosity.
Not wasting any time to speak as he keeps a grip on an idea he had come up earlier, he goes back to the meeting table to place the map on it. He goes through his pockets to find two pieces of dice – used in minor gambling sessions.
"Antonio, Alessandro." He calls out as he sits down on a chair, placing the paper on the empty part of the table with an ink and quill there, his set of dice near the ink pot.
"Figlio? Have you finally gotten bored of us for a letter of resignation?" Antonio quips in humour as he and his friend walk towards the one who called them. "A map of Rome?"
"Aye, just had a thought to do something." Figlio shrugs before turning to Alessandro. "We'll be needing some Chess pieces for this new trick."
"Just saw some lying around." Alessandro points out as he walks to the back of the room, where there are some Chess containers. "Most of them, dusty."
"Get a set, or two." Figlio then turns to his intrigued friend that was studying the already collected items that are on the table. "A simple game to test, I just want other's opinions about it."
"A simple game?" Antonio asks with intrigue, fishing out a Knight once a set of Chess was placed on the table.
"We'll be playing a new game where we utilise this battlefield as our..you can call it 'Chess Board'..without any grid system as it'll be based on the terrain of the City or Region." Figlio explains as he takes the black pieces of the Chess set. "I'll command the defence of Rome, you'll command a siege on Rome."
Antonio nods, before frowning and looks back at Figlio.
"What do each piece represent in this new..game of yours?" He asks as he looks at Figlio, who's setting up his pieces already.
"Pawn represents Pikemen, Knights represent Lancers, Rook represents Cannons, Bishop represents Riflemen, Queen represents Scouts." Figlio explains without stopping, placing some rooks on the walls on the map.
Antonio nods in understanding as he places the King's piece behind a formation of pawns in front of him, a Chess at the flanks..
"I'll oversee it." Alessandro declares with an unimpressed face at the two indignant players of the experimental game. "Tell me your orders, and I'll oversee the action."
"An arbiter?" Figlio questions with curiosity in his tone, however he looks at the chaotic battlefield with disdain. "He shouldn't be able to shoot through walls."
9Scene Change9
Antonio looks at the Ink pot as a new inspiration reaches him, he grins as he takes out a piece of paper and begins writing down a set of instructions – he gives it to the brow-raised Alessandro who looks at the paper in amusement.
"I got an idea, friends." Figlio announces to his colleagues with an excited look in his eyes. "The three of us kept on having problems dealing with the idea of casualties and how to settle them rather than simple 'I hit means death'..such a concept ignores the possibilities of dodging and blocking..instead we can settle this through mathematical calculations with other variables accounting the battlefield's conditions and the commander's orders."
"Good thing to you, I've been educated before becoming promoted to Officer." Alessandro quips as he pulls out a piece of paper..
"Your soldiers hear the roar of cannons coming from a nearby hill." Alessandro reveals to Antonio as two pieces of Rooks are placed on the terrain, thereby revealing the units Figlio hidden to the enemy.
Antonio smirks as he writes down a new order on the overwritten piece of paper, giving it to his friend.
Eight Riflemen are split from the main army as it heads towards where the Artillery pieces were located from.
Filgio writes his own set of commands on his paper, before handing it over to the Umpire.
Artillery reloads, while five knights reveal themselves as they rush down towards the upcoming group of Riflemen.
Antonio writes down his command with a growing grin on his face.
Four Lancers reveal themselves to the artillery coming from behind, hidden units that were deployed from the start of battle on the off-chance of an enemy surprise attack.
"Great victory, good friend." Figlio laughs as he shakes his hand to the victor of the match.
"It's quite fun, if I do say so myself." Antonio replies cheerily as he looks at the conquered City of Rome. "Do you have a name for this new game of yours?"
"Gioco Di Guerra." Figlio names it with a smile on his face. "After many months working on this..exhausting game..I think I can say it needs more improvement."
Alessandro snorts in amusement.
"Always improvements for you, friend." Antonio shakes his head in exasperation.
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Magoose
SV's Questing Fanatic
- Location
- California USA
- Pronouns
- He
+10 to all rolls next turn.
WEll the thing is, we again, have made things difficult for them, but since we married one of the branches princesses, they see us as willing to play ball politically speaking.
However, it could be much wierder and worse if say, they thought we would stranglehold the worlds oceans with England...which we totally could.
Except that Charles will possibly come home. And that could lead to a problem
Yep.
Yep, but if Charles takes over Spain, he can do (basically) whatever the hell he wants cause he's a proven battle commander and he brings with him gold.
Lots of it. And that is something that most of the Spanish nobility can look past because they love that shit.
... Well, you see, Charles is absolutely someoen able to balance his personal ambitions, and what he needs to give to his nobles.
[]Never Intterupt an enemy (Enemy battle rolls will suffer -10 to their rolls in the next war)
[]Luciano's brillence shows (+10 to Luciano's engineering rolls for the next time it is chosen)
[]The Army Gets Better (+10 to the Army rolls)