A Reforged World (NO SV, You are King of Italy, in a Greatly Changed World)

Suleiman is too busy with internal problems to bother us and likely will remain so for quite some time to come. He'll rebuild his Empire before trying anything abroad again.

Considering that the Ottomans rolled well on the Rumor Mill and that 2 of their enemies crit failed, Suleiman is going to be done sooner with his internal issues rather than later (especially if the French, who are also doing relatively well currently, decide to offer him support in exchange for going after us again, like they did the first time the Ottomans invaded).

I may be wrong about this, but we won't come to blows with Charles just yet, given that he's still on his powertrip and not yet realizing that things aren't as easy as they had been for him (even though he seems to be quite lucky) and even once he realizes the issue of Italy being a threat to his empire, I expect that he'll try to cut a deal with us (since he does seem to sincerely perceive us as a friend, for all the faults he has) in that regard before resorting to actually fighting us.
 
There is one good thing about the americas. The Inca is still intact, and is giving the good fight as a group that didn't make all of their neighbors hate them like the Aztecs did. One has fallen, but one still remains in defiance.
In addition, the Incas were very quick to adapt to and adopt new things they encounter if they deemed them beneficial (like, say, metallurgy, horses and gunpowder).

Coupled with the Geography of the Andes...they will still take a beating either way, by disease and war, but they MIGHT survive.
 
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But doesn't Carlos get the slaves from the sub-Saharan trade routes controlled by the Portuguese? How do we threaten his slave labor?
If you zoom in you'll see a pair of archipelagos ripe for conquering to create a supply chain and naval basing in the Atlantic. From the second on, and some Islands you can't see because of the red, our fleets can ply the slave routes and capture all there vessels.
 
Considering that the Ottomans rolled well on the Rumor Mill and that 2 of their enemies crit failed, Suleiman is going to be done sooner with his internal issues rather than later (especially if the French, who are also doing relatively well currently, decide to offer him support in exchange for going after us again, like they did the first time the Ottomans invaded).
True, but after how things ended in Italy for the Ottomans last time, I don't think Suleiman will be so keen to risk repeating the Failures of his Father. It's entirely possible that he will turn his focus to Hungary, Egypt or Persia instead of Italy.

...Although I just had an idea for a TRULY unholy Alliance: Charles and Suleiman teaming up to take us down.
 
If it's not too much trouble for Magoose, I hope we can retcon it to the Ottomans giving all of the Dodecadense Islands and Cyclades islands so we rule over the entrance into the Aegan Sea. Also a reminder that we should have Cyprus and strips of Dalmatia and Albania since it was Venetian territory.
Normally, I would say no...

But I might do a retcon. might.
As for Spain, I don't understand why they're going through the trouble of Charles when they got a spare in Ferdinand who is willing and able to rule Spain. He was a competent Emperor OTL and generally has a far better personality of moderation, tolerance and flexibility than the insane Charles.
Because Charles has something that Ferdinand dosen't have.

besides being the firstborn.

He has all the Americas and their gold, and resources that he's not sending to them. To say nothing of the manpower pool he has as he isn't a wasteful fuck like everyone else who ruled the New World.

He's basically holding Spain economically Hostage, and even if they try to take him out... they can't. because crossing the Atlantic is difficult and they have no ports to resupply.

And amphibious invasions suck.
The fuck you talking about magoose? Golden age of piracy? With the Italian Navy soon to establish itself across the Atlantic? Piracy is going to be the world's second deadest profession by the time Luciano is 35.
Or Every Pirate flies the Italian Flag with a Letter of Marque to end all slavery in the world. :V

And sink Spanish ships.
Those Routes won't be enough to supply Charles with all the Slaves he needs for building his new Empire. He'll want to tap into more of them, even establish whole new ones...and since Spain lies on the Mediterranean, we, and our Mission, are about to become a Problem for him.
You know when we made that proclamation, all of Europe laughed at us calling us madmen...

They aren't laughing anymore.

Slavery is a scourge that needs to be destroyed.:V

Even if it can bring economic prosperity. The human suffering that it causes is not a good price to pay.
There is one good thing about the americas. The Inca is still intact, and is giving the good fight as a group that didn't make all of their neighbors hate them like the Aztecs did. One has fallen, but one still remains in defiance.
And the Inca, since they aren't fucking Aztecs... will most likely survive...

If they can get their shit together.
Considering that the Ottomans rolled well on the Rumor Mill and that 2 of their enemies crit failed, Suleiman is going to be done sooner with his internal issues rather than later (especially if the French, who are also doing relatively well currently, decide to offer him support in exchange for going after us again, like they did the first time the Ottomans invaded).
All I'm going to say is... he's a little mad that the slave trade kinda... stopped. So there is that.

As for France, well, they are not doing well.
I may be wrong about this, but we won't come to blows with Charles just yet, given that he's still on his powertrip and not yet realizing that things aren't as easy as they had been for him (even though he seems to be quite lucky) and even once he realizes the issue of Italy being a threat to his empire, I expect that he'll try to cut a deal with us (since he does seem to sincerely perceive us as a friend, for all the faults he has) in that regard before resorting to actually fighting us.
Um... All I'm going to say is this...

No... Once he gets back to Europe... he'll realize that to keep his new world Empire, he needs slaves. African slaves.

And he can't have it threatened by the Italian navy.

Coming to blows will be inevitable.
In addition, the Incas were very quick to adapt to and adopt new things they encounter if they deemed them beneficial (like, say, metallurgy, horses and gunpowder).

Coupled with the the Geography of the Andes...they will still take a beating either way, by disease and war, but they MIGHT survive.
... they just not need to fall into civil chaos.

And survive the waves upon waves of spanish soldiers.
True, but after how things ended in Italy for the Ottomans last time, I don't think Suleiman will be so keen to risk repeating the Failures of his Father. It's entirely possible that he will turn his focus to Hungary, Egypt or Persia instead of Italy.

...Although I just had an idea for a TRULY unholy Alliance: Charles and Suleiman teaming up to take us down.
... I mean don't give me ideas here and threaten me with a good time. :V
 
If you zoom in you'll see a pair of archipelagos ripe for conquering to create a supply chain and naval basing in the Atlantic. From the second on, and some Islands you can't see because of the red, our fleets can ply the slave routes and capture all there vessels.
Would Luciano be interested in intervening? Of course it is our decision, but it seems very strange to me that several wars should be started against Spain and Portugal or even in the future Holland and Great Britain over slavery in the New World, when we have the problem of the Turks, the holy empire that We still don't know their intentions and France is almost certain to have a war against them.
 
Would Luciano be interested in intervening? Of course it is our decision, but it seems very strange to me that several wars should be started against Spain and Portugal or even in the future Holland and Great Britain over slavery in the New World, when we have the problem of the Turks, the holy empire that We still don't know their intentions and France is almost certain to have a war against them.
All I'm going to say is that if you don't start getting into North America soon, all of it will belong to Spain.
 
Would Luciano be interested in intervening? Of course it is our decision, but it seems very strange to me that several wars should be started against Spain and Portugal or even in the future Holland and Great Britain over slavery in the New World, when we have the problem of the Turks, the holy empire that We still don't know their intentions and France is almost certain to have a war against them.
Thing is, we will intervene against Charles' Interests either way, because Charles also wants the North African Slave Trade.
 
Would Luciano be interested in intervening? Of course it is our decision, but it seems very strange to me that several wars should be started against Spain and Portugal or even in the future Holland and Great Britain over slavery in the New World, when we have the problem of the Turks, the holy empire that We still don't know their intentions and France is almost certain to have a war against them.
They aren't in a position to invade us by land, far away as they are, and they can't compare by sea. I can offer the British the easy deal of guard the Mediterranean while the Navy fucks up the Atlantic Slave trade, get a cut of Italian trade profits from the bosphorus that no one else in europe is plying right now.

Between the marriage and the war with France ending in a French victory at great cost and little gain, neither Holy Roman or France are in a position to do much, and will probably be turning there attention to Suleiman after his victories this year.

I don't intend to ignore the possibilities for war, but Suleiman knows he can't beat us at sea, which means he'll have to conquer his way to us by land. We can invest in hiring officers and in constructing a fortress in north eastern Italy. We can wage a naval campaign on the Atlantic Slave trade without impacting our chances in war against Suleiman, not that I think he wants to risk the Italian Navy doing what they did to North Africa to the rest of his coastal cities.

Is Luciano interested in following the will of his people by preventing slavery? By gods will it be done.
 
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If we don't have Malta already, I highly suggest we grab it up whenever we can. There's a reason why it was so hard to conquer historically, and if we can secure it, we'll be able to further secure our stranglehold on the Mediterranean.

On the topic of Tenochtitlan and Charles, while I absolutely am glad the Aztecs were kicked off their high horses, I don't condone burning Tenochtitlan to the ground at all.
 
If we don't have Malta already, I highly suggest we grab it up whenever we can. There's a reason why it was so hard to conquer historically, and if we can secure it, we'll be able to further secure our stranglehold on the Mediterranean.
We just need to ask the pope if the Knights of Malta are willing to work with us on our crusade and italian unification...

There is no way that can backfire. :V
 
Convince the pope to declare a crusade on slavery? Worth a shot. Slave selling nations usually have a lot of wealth, which is what crusades are usually about.
Especially since the Ottomans definitely have slaves, and since they're Muslim, they're free pickings.

As to convincing the Knights of Malta? Give them all Letters of Marque and unleash them upon Ottoman ships. None shall pass!!

Edit: Just saw that the Knights of Malta aren't a thing yet, so... Oops. :V

Still, though, Malta is definitely a priority on our list.
 
All I'm going to say is that if you don't start getting into North America soon, all of it will belong to Spain.
I will say, beyond maybe taking some Caribbean Islands for naval basing, I don't care about the America's. I'll conquer as many Islands as I need to reduce supply strain on the Italian Navy, but I don't need some vast empire. Abolition is it's own reward.
 
All I'm going to say is that if you don't start getting into North America soon, all of it will belong to Spain.
So…
Want to set sail to the new world to form a confederation?:V

The United Tribes of America. Might be worth forming in order to give Charles a threat he needs to recognize on his 'home continent'. Cause right now, besides a need for warm bodies, he really has got a nice spot at most of South America.
 
So…
Want to set sail to the new world to form a confederation?:V

The United Tribes of America. Might be worth forming in order to give Charles a threat he needs to recognize on his 'home continent'. Cause right now, besides a need for warm bodies, he really has got a nice spot at most of South America.
Nope. For one, we have a very small army. for another, pretty sure Charles controls most of the coasts we can reach easily right now. We don't have Italian diplomats who speak there language. Sorry, but the best we can do against Charles now is strangle the Atlantic slave trade.
 
Gibraltar is fine, but the goal is a supply chain to the southern Atlantic slave trade, not a choke point in the Mediterranean sea.

An Island from the chain west of Morocco will do, as will one or two in Cape Verde.the Bissagos Islands we may as well conquer whole sale.
 
Gibraltar is fine, but the goal is a supply chain to the southern Atlantic slave trade, not a choke point in the Mediterranean sea.

An Island from the chain west of Morocco will do, as will one or two in Cape Verde.the Bissagos Islands we may as well conquer whole sale.
we kinda need to control of Gibraltar if we don't want Spain trying to strangle our supply chain.
 
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