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A Different Breed (Warhammer 29K)

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Karugus said:
I'd actually specifically keep Bright Talons even with new build detachments considering the partial effectiveness of the rider's holofields. Probably the same thing for our already armed jetbikes. Based off TT bike troops tend to be surprisingly tanky at the cost of fewer models.

The alternative is we make 4-5 lighter detachments centered around infantry this turn ala our Militia/HG support detachments and then make the line/assault primary detachments (which are likely to be heavy detachments) next turn after we've polished up and have a few more modern designs.
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Comes down to how many AP we invest into creating Detachments, because with the scouting done, I think we will also get more actions for the Warrior AP to be used.

Vehrec said:
The notion that the only way to change a warhost's contents is to break it up, dissolve each detachment, and then restitch the whole thing back together, is so absurd I'm not entertaining it. Game mechanics can change-and should change, if there is a reason to do so! Do we need to, in order to refit a fleet, spend military AP to dissolve the squadron, then spend production capacity in the yards to make the actual refit, then spend military AP to form a brand new squadron? No! We just refit the fucking ships! So why is it so hard to say 'Swap all instances of Militia Pattern 29.1 to Militia Pattern 29.3, as supplies become available.'?
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Take a look at the actions we have available for our warrior AP.
Point is it is AP heavy to update warhost and detachments.
You are thinking it shouldn't be like that doesn't change the way the system works.

Edit:
In case of the warhost they don't have a AP cost listed, so good chance raising/disbanding one is free.
The same just doesn't go for the detachments.
 
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So, what kind of wargear should our elites and HQ use if our infantry is gonna this beefy (and if we keep using our Ithilmar, not complaining, I love that our basic infantry composition is a 18 - technically 19 because of the BlazingSword squad leader - TEQ's babysitting a squad of 11 MEQ's).

I'm expecting an entire squad of Ithilmar starcarvers to act as our "We need 20 dead space-marines, mega-nobs, Leman Russes (tank, not primarch) etc yesterday, take this laser minigun and don't stop chopping until you have the same killcount as Doomguy." Elites, basically our anti-material squads (because at this point, it's not anti-infantry or anti-tank, it's fucking anti-matter)

Or maybe grav-weapons if we had access to the weapons we researched? (other than the needlers) I'd love to be able to make detachment compositions of our new tech right from the get go so we don't have to spend more AP to redesign them.
 
BigFungus26 said:
So, what kind of wargear should our elites and HQ use if our infantry is gonna this beefy (and if we keep using our Ithilmar, not complaining, I love that our basic infantry composition is a 18 - technically 19 because of the BlazingSword squad leader - TEQ's babysitting a squad of 11 MEQ's).

I'm expecting an entire squad of Ithilmar starcarvers to act as our "We need 20 dead space-marines, mega-nobs, Leman Russes (tank, not primarch) etc yesterday, take this laser minigun and don't stop chopping until you have the same killcount as Doomguy." Elites, basically our anti-material squads (because at this point, it's not anti-infantry or anti-tank, it's fucking anti-matter)

Or maybe grav-weapons if we had access to the weapons we researched? (other than the needlers) I'd love to be able to make detachment compositions of our new tech right from the get go so we don't have to spend more AP to redesign them.
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Pretty much Ithilmar and likely max squad size.
And then most likely the same gear with some stuff like starcarvers mixed in.

They are mostly more skilled and bring more bodies to the overall detachment.
Which helps with our main limiter being AP on recruitment something that will likely reflect more in future designs for our stuff as we work out how much AP we on average invest into detachment recruitment.
 
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Profilozof said:
we are using armour and not pated t-shirts
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I don't believe guardian armor is a plated t shirt. That's what I am asking about. For one guardian armor hasn't been invented yet.

What we are wearing are plated t shirts because we are 5.8 billion odd civilians and randos who just survived the apocalypse. Guardian armor has yet to be developed. But I think this idea that it's just a t shirt is rather silly.

However light it may be, it's actual armor. It presumably keeps out hostile environments and allows Eldar to operate in vacuum. Thus it's hermetically sealed and has some form of life support.
 
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Professor Vesca said:
I don't believe guardian armor is a plated t shirt. That's what I am asking about.
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The answer is that we are giving our guys semi power medium armor and heavy power armor.
Guardian is classed as light armor if i am not wrong.

And their canon Craftworld stuff well:
Mechanis said:
It's actually worse than you think: the Asuryani mostly use unpowered armor, so even their heavy gear tends to straddle the line of "very heavy Medium to very light Heavy" armor. Because the guy wearing it has to hump the stuff around all day and so they can't do things like "we'll just have plates that never get thinner than one inch thick" like powered/semipowerd stuff can pull.
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Overall for us Guardian armor is pretty much a padded T shirt for us.
Considering that semi and full power armor are much heavier than the non powered ones.
 
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Professor Vesca said:
Our armor is so radically different from the other Aeldari. Is there a reason for it?
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Traditional Eldar preferences are "high speed, low drag", focusing on minimal impact on the mobility of the Eldar wearing it. We are "fuck Khaine, all my homies hate Khaine" and "Vaul for life", with a very high industrial capacity despite the fall. And less respect for the traditions of the Eldar Empire than most.

And in general we're breaking off from the paths (and Paths) the other Craftworlds are treading.
 
Hey @Mechanis can you weigh in on Vehrec's obsession with ignoring the stated rules about refitting detachments because they don't like them?
I'd much rather have a WoG on raising and refitting so they stop snapping at anyone telling them they are wrong.
 
AvidReader 2.0 said:
How would our brigantine armor fare against most light troops on 40k?
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Probably in the same ballpark as IG carapace armor. so definitely a helluva lot better than a lot of people make do with, but it's no patch on even the sort of thing the Nuns with Guns or Random Inquisitors might have, let alone a Space Marine.

Professor Vesca said:
I don't believe guardian armor is a plated t shirt. That's what I am asking about. For one guardian armor hasn't been invented yet.

What we are wearing are plated t shirts because we are 5.8 billion odd civilians and randos who just survived the apocalypse. Guardian armor has yet to be developed. But I think this idea that it's just a t shirt is rather silly.

However light it may be, it's actual armor. It presumably keeps out hostile environments and allows Eldar to operate in vacuum. Thus it's hermetically sealed and has some form of life support.
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Wraithbone Trauma Plates are basically the "everyone gets a breastplate, some Faulders, and a brainbucket; and hopes they don't get chemical-strike'd or blown into vacuum" school of armor design. it's better than "going into battle in street cloths" but it's pretty much only better than IG Flack Armor because it's made Wraithbone and actually is fairly resistant to various things like "ork Sluggas" and "lasguns" (at least as long as you take the hit on the actual plates, and not, say, the face). Though obviously it still has issues like "There is significant overlap between 'your helmet will be fine' and 'the impact will snap your neck like a twig', don't think you're invincible." everything else has envirosealing, though. mostly because they're basically just pre-fall spacesuits with some extra bits added.
(oh, and the big blank areas on the lighter stuff's helmets are Sapphire smartglass with a reeeealy thin layer of Wraithbone over them to keep them from getting all scratched up. Just, you know, for reference.)
 
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inirlan said:
Traditional Eldar preferences are "high speed, low drag", focusing on minimal impact on the mobility of the Eldar wearing it. We are "fuck Khaine, all my homies hate Khaine" and "Vaul for life", with a very high industrial capacity despite the fall. And less respect for the traditions of the Eldar Empire than most.

And in general we're breaking off from the paths (and Paths) the other Craftworlds are treading.
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I don't think we know what traditional Eldar preferences were. They were probably incredibly diverse, but the post-Fall Eldar had to make a virtue of necessity when they simply couldn't afford to make heavy gear, and then their doctrine adapted to fit.
 
I get the feeling that Asuryani basically developed all of their armor off the Wraithbone Hardsuit, and never really diverged from that, just made it economical without giving up performance (In the form of Guardian Mesh Armor), or just gave it specific functionality (For Aspect Armor)
 
inirlan said:
We are "fuck Khaine, all my homies hate Khaine" and "Vaul for life"
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Funnily enough, we probably didn't much like Beil-Tan before the fall either, given how much they worship Khaine. We don't much like the Divine Murderhobo for what he pulled with Vaul (the whole anvil chaining business). In fact, I'd hazard that we are extremely salty that our god got eaten and Khaine sorta survived.
 
Joking aside, Wraithweave looks so cool that I can't wait until we start generating enough Warrior AP that we can afford to actually, you know, start using dudes with it.

Maximum Quality makes sense when we're bottlenecked by elfpower and lack of organization, but by the time we're a Notable Power, we'll need to convert our Troops to something more economical, but at least that shit looks fucking awesome and is still broadly pretty good.
 
Alectai said:
Joking aside, Wraithweave looks so cool that I can't wait until we start generating enough Warrior AP that we can afford to actually, you know, start using dudes with it.

Maximum Quality makes sense when we're bottlenecked by elfpower and lack of organization, but by the time we're a Notable Power, we'll need to convert our Troops to something more economical, but at least that shit looks fucking awesome and is still broadly pretty good.
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... non of the units we designed use Wraithweave and I don't think I will ever support a plan that switches of semi/full power armor for our troops.

If we have to use that thing, something went horribly wrong.
 
After a generation of not making it; any Pre-Fall Eldar Bonesingers who knew how to make decent powered wraithbone armour would have died out, and in post-apocalyptic conditions where there was a desperate need for Bonesinger hours and no time to equip powered armoured troops, the experience may simply not have been passed on. At which point the knowledge of how to make and deploy effective power armour would have been lost and would have to have been reinvented through even more expensive trial and error

Personally; a I think we should switch to semi to full medium power armour as soon as we can. It seems much better for the cost of going from 6 to 7 EP.
 
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Skjadir said:
... non of the units we designed use Wraithweave and I don't think I will ever support a plan that switches of semi/full power armor for our troops.

If we have to use that thing, something went horribly wrong.
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It's mostly for crew gear and artillery teams at the moment, I think.
 
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