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A Different Breed (Warhammer 29K)

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I mean, it's not all or nothing, we don't have to improve Literally Every Army we have in three turns, kitting out one or two Warhosts at a time, rotating them to the front, kitting out another group, that's still working! We're still getting stronger very fast that way.

And I doubt Biel-Tan's warhost is going to be somehow even remotely near our level of equipment. If each of our dudes have anywhere from 6 to 8 EP committed to them and Biel-Tan's dudes have 1-2 each, I'm not certain any degree of skill present in these early days can cover that gap in performance.

Mechanis said:
The GIANT BACKPACK holding the shield generator might have a thing or two to say about getting too crazy with the acrobatics, but they're definitely a lot more fleet of foot than the equivalent sort of thing from not-Eldar people. While still being able to choke out an Ork with one hand while beating a second to death with its own arm.
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All that Power Assist also makes it even better at melee, and can use Heavy Weapons like they're Longarms, huh?

No "Slow and Purposeful" here, our dudes can shoot and scoot with heavy weapons like they're Assault Marines.
 
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Mechanis said:
The GIANT BACKPACK holding the shield generator might have a thing or two to say about getting too crazy with the acrobatics, but they're definitely a lot more fleet of foot than the equivalent sort of thing from not-Eldar people. While still being able to choke out an Ork with one hand while beating a second to death with its own arm.
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Well, this is our first-gen Cataphractii (early, even more fridge-like terminator suits) equivalent. If conversion field tech is anywhere as good as what Imperium has access to, next iteration prolly gonna downsize the backpack.

...Although we might just stack all of the defensive options, instead. :drevil:
 
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Furthermore, consider this.

Biel-Tan has specced for maximum Martial Glory, has a Major Craftworld, and isn't really known for much else in canon aside from "Are the Most Militant Craftworld" and "Are complete and utter dicks but somehow everyone defers to them anyway."

If we have a reasonable chance of having to fight a group of theirs within 3 turns, chances are that they started looking for us immediately, and they're on the opposite side of the fucking galaxy to us, this is a non-trivial use of their resources in a time when everything is smouldering, and we have no reason to believe they also took Innovative and Industrious either, and we know from canon they didn't start with any of the Saved Dominion-era tech that we did, because they don't have any of that shit in canon.

Chances are good that anything they hit us with isn't going to be much better materially than what we started with. And if even our militia are virtually immune to anything short of their heavy weapons, their greater skill can only take that so far.

Meanwhile, if we're hosing them down with a rain of wraithbone spikes, when we know that Asuryani and Drukhari both think armor is for nerds, you can only dodge a hail of spikes for so long before your luck runs out.
 
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Its also worth noting that as we kit our our armies, the equipment that we're replacing all goes into storage, so its not like the EP we spend to replace the lasgun is completely wasted. I'd prefer to never need to take it out of storage, but having a template for "territorial defense detachments" that exist to be raised in a crisis and die in droves so invaders don't get to the civilians and start getting the real body counts is very much an option.

Hell, I wouldn't mind acquiring a few million human lasguns and dumping them in a hole somewhere labeled in case of genocidal lunatics, break glass. It might be the difference between a few million dead and a few hundred million dead a century or three down the line.
 
If you want to go for full quality on our Troop choices, consider something like this, then.

[] Plan: You Get What You Pay For
-[] Star Combat Squad (Total Cost 138 EP, 5 Starcrystals)
--[][Trooper1] 1x Void Guard Warsuit, Starblaster Rifle, Flamer Pistol (17 EP, 5 Starcrystals)
--[][Trooper2] 6x Void Guard, Needler Carbine, Close Combat Weapon (66 EP)
--[][Trooper3] 5x Void Guard, Spike Carbine, Flamer Pistol (55 EP)
-[] White Lion Assault Squad (358 EP)
---[][Trooper1] 4x Ithilmar Assault Suit, Heavy Needler, Power Maul (212 EP)
---[][Trooper2] 2x Ithilmar Assault Suit, Starcarver, Power Maul (146 EP, 16 Starcrystals)
-[] Bastion Fire Support Squad (Total Cost 137 EP, 1 Psy-scope, 8 Starcrystals)
--[][Trooper1] 4x Void Guard Warsuit, Heavy Needler, Flamer Pistol (68 EP)
--[][Trooper2] 1x Void Guard Warsuit, Fatecaster Rifle, Flamer Pistol (32 EP, 1 Psy-scope)
--[][Trooper3] 1x Void Guard Warsuit, Starcarver, Flamer Pistol (37 EP, 8 Starcrystals)

The Star squads make up the bulk of our military in this vision, with advanced carbines for firing on the move (no heavy weapons means they can remain extremely mobile) in a mix of types that will let them slaughter standard infantry and blast their way through heavy infantry. The captain's starblaster rifle can eliminate vehicles reliably and the whole squad isn't helpless if caught at short range either since they've got a nice mix of flamers and close combat weaponry, so this is really an all-purpose unit that can be relied on to handle almost all problems. The other two units are specialists; White Lion squads are the fist for taking out hard targets at any range thanks to their heavy weapons and power mauls, while the Bastion squads hold ground with heavy weaponry.

But a military like this costs. It costs a lot. We'd end up overhauling one warhost a turn, if that.
 
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Seriously though, while it does raise the cost a fair bit, Needlers are an accurate, fantastic anti-infantry option that doesn't completely break the bank for our Guardian units, and it should be a solid counter to most of our most ready opponents, since most Orks don't wear heavy armor and come in large numbers, while Biel-Tan might have MIlitant, if there's enough of a gear mismatch, it should put us on equal grounds again. The Lasrifles we have here are confirmed to be garbage tier only marginally better at best than human equiviliants, that's not going to be enough.

Replace those Lasrifles with Carbines, you might raise the cost per Squad by 36 (9 x 4), but you get a weapon that can absolutely hose a battlespace down with needles that shit on anything that isn't Medium or better armor, and Biel-Tan shouldn't have that yet, the Phoenix Lords haven't even distinguished themselves yet, so there aren't Aspect Warriors! Bump it up to Rifles (Cost increase per squad to 45), and it gets even sillier.
 
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A part of me wishes we went all in on weapon hard points so we could glue 6 weapons + 2 handheld weapons to each unit. Just imagine each slot with a Fatecaster weapon. Anything and everything within shooting range is instantly dead.
 
We'll do the specialist options eventually. There is still time for ranged specialists, Swooping Hawk flying heavy equivalent, and the like.
 
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Good hell that thing is still beefier than Gaurdian suits.

We really have earned a distinction in naming huh? Where most Eldar are speedy fast weirdo's who seem to loathe armor, we have fucking Terminator equivalents online already, alongside a heavier armor suite than Gaurdians even manage with basically none of the drawbacks.
 
KingCrimson1081 said:
That armor has got thunder thighs.
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Most important/biggest part of the exo-frame's in the legs. gotta carry the whole suit, after all. Plus, getting shot in the leg really sucks.
Profilozof said:
Oh they are twigs
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That's the difference between "light armor that a dude has to be able to run around for hours in with no mechanical assistance" and "medium servo-assisted armor that's just barely light enough for the dude wearing it to not be totally immobile if the power assist fails/is turned off". the difference is... stark.
 
Using Math

We can have a single run of the Forge, 5000ep, build 100 Ithilmir and then 450 Void Guard suits.

Somehow the math works perfectly
 
Yeah, that's basically Heavy Aspect Armor right there, years before it's developed.

Does that mean normal Aspect Armor is Light, and Guardian Armor is Minimal?
 
Darik29 said:
Using Math

We can have a single run of the Forge, 5000ep, build 100 Ithilmir and then 450 Void Guard suits.

Somehow the math works perfectly
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Vaul knows his shit...there is a reason why he thought he had a chance against fucking khaine the exterminator/murderer himself/itself.

he made the tools to try and break the bastard...and probably would have won if he could make the GOOD STUFF...issue was he had to make a 100 sword to not have his kids/students murdered by the mad war god.

honestly, this is a Vaul versus Khaine scnerio again, but this time? Vaul has prep time.

And there is one thing you never give a crafter, its fricken prep time.
 
Shocking to think that while we are producing this, when Biel-Tan rocks up on us they aren't even going to have that Guardian Armour we are comparing it to.
 
RandomDwarf said:
honestly, this is a Vaul versus Khaine scnerio again, but this time? Vaul has prep time.

And there is one thing you never give a crafter, its fricken prep time.
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Reminds me of Worm Tinkers. There's the famous line "do not attack a tinker's workshop. Ever."

Kolar said:
Shocking to think that while we are producing this, when Biel-Tan rocks up on us they aren't even going to have that Guardian Armour we are comparing it to.
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They might have proto guardian armor given how martially speced they are, but we still beat them for anything but the wraithweave. And even that is pretty tough.
 
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Alectai said:
Yeah, that's basically Heavy Aspect Armor right there, years before it's developed.

Does that mean normal Aspect Armor is Light, and Guardian Armor is Minimal?
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It's actually worse than you think: the Asuryani mostly use unpowered armor, so even their heavy gear tends to straddle the line of "very heavy Medium to very light Heavy" armor. Because the guy wearing it has to hump the stuff around all day and so they can't do things like "we'll just have plates that never get thinner than one inch thick" like powered/semipowerd stuff can pull.
 
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