Finally caught up with the thread! That was a wildly excessive amount of reading...

Anyway, something I'd like to bring up for discussion: Every plan posted so far seems to be going with Move Existing Councils+Manage Diplomatic Affairs under the Steward sign. Why is this such a firm consensus- or is it just something that's gone entirely unexamined?

Diplomacy is so incredibly important that I don't see any reason we would consider any of the other Steward actions more vital than Create Diplomatic Council, which unlocks Sign of the Herald. If we want to get alliances, bring people into our faction, coordinate tech trades, share intelligence, any of that, we need Herald for it. The +5 Stewardship AP from Move Existing Councils doesn't seem like it has anything urgent that it would even be applied to (although admittedly further actions will likely become unlocked) and additional personal time from Sign of the Hero seems unlikely to be anywhere near the importance of what Sign of the Herald has to offer. I can see a reasonable argument for needing to Manage Diplomatic Affairs if there's something absolutely vital to do yesterday diplomatically, but we're effectively paying a huge AP tax on that since we'll have 2 diplomatic AP in the next two turns by going Manage Diplomatic Affairs->Create Diplomatic Council, instead of having 5 diplomatic AP by doing Create Diplomatic Council immediately.

Also, if somewhat less important, 3 AP on Create Diplomatic Council leaves us with exactly enough AP left to take the remaining farm action and make that whole issue hopefully go away for good.

So what's the deal here, everyone? What is the return that we're getting for putting off Sign of the Herald?
the 5 steward AP is fantastic, and it also unlocks hero actions... Of which we have 8... Who are currently swamped doing administration rather than actual stuff they're good at.
We have 5 diplomatic engagements that we know about...2 ap should handle two of them, which are relatively time sensitive. Narcretinei and Stel-Uit. The rest (the two adaptationists and Lalc-Tann) can wait.
 
Finally caught up with the thread! That was a wildly excessive amount of reading...

Anyway, something I'd like to bring up for discussion: Every plan posted so far seems to be going with Move Existing Councils+Manage Diplomatic Affairs under the Steward sign. Why is this such a firm consensus- or is it just something that's gone entirely unexamined?

Diplomacy is so incredibly important that I don't see any reason we would consider any of the other Steward actions more vital than Create Diplomatic Council, which unlocks Sign of the Herald. If we want to get alliances, bring people into our faction, coordinate tech trades, share intelligence, any of that, we need Herald for it. The +5 Stewardship AP from Move Existing Councils doesn't seem like it has anything urgent that it would even be applied to (although admittedly further actions will likely become unlocked) and additional personal time from Sign of the Hero seems unlikely to be anywhere near the importance of what Sign of the Herald has to offer. I can see a reasonable argument for needing to Manage Diplomatic Affairs if there's something absolutely vital to do yesterday diplomatically, but we're effectively paying a huge AP tax on that since we'll have 2 diplomatic AP in the next two turns by going Manage Diplomatic Affairs->Create Diplomatic Council, instead of having 5 diplomatic AP by doing Create Diplomatic Council immediately.

Also, if somewhat less important, 3 AP on Create Diplomatic Council leaves us with exactly enough AP left to take the remaining farm action and make that whole issue hopefully go away for good.

So what's the deal here, everyone? What is the return that we're getting for putting off Sign of the Herald?
Because we are in Warhammer heroes are so so much potentially more important than delay of one turn with proper diplomatic channels.

My guy, another thing is that proper stewardship build will also unlock more stewardship options. And food is not an issue for the next few decades/turns
 
he doesn't. we don't know there last location. we have to speak to the craftworld Stel'ys-Ran to get important details needed to start scouting for them.
The point wasn't in the sending of a fleet but in that the curse of Tzeentch allows Kairos to view what we're scrying so looking for a craftworld in distress could alert him to vulnerable prey so avoiding the use of scrying for a turn might not be the worst of ideas.
 
what region were they last in? what path through the webway leads to that region? sending scouts is pointless because we have so few details it's basically blindly seaching the galaxy with no clue where to start.
We spent an extensive part of a day talking to their friend that was worried about them going missing, I would be very surprised if we hadn't been told where they were last off screen.

@Mechanis do we have the info we need to scout where the craftworld was last known to be or will that have to wait until we diplo our quest giver again?
 
The people talking about how expensive our troops designs are.

Have you actually looked at the logistics situation at the moment and where the bottleneck is ?

We can at most recruit 12 detachments! until potential much more development.

We can very much spend the EP to ensure everyone has good equipment, armor and weapons (ignore exotics).

Something like
-8 VGA
- 8 sunblasters
- 8 light rending blades
-4 Ithilmar
- 4 grav blades
- 4 Heavy weapons of choice
is a valid troop design and pretty relatively cheap option for us if we use the foundries.

For a full 12 detachment the expectation is that we need about 12 foundries for VGA* and about 6 for Ithilmar.
With a bunch more for the weapons (mostly the sunblasters as standard weapon for everybody).

*with everyone even the vehicle operators getting one
 
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[] Plan Basic Draft without Deployments
- [] Stewards
-- [] Move Existing Councils (5 AP)
-- [] Manage Diplomatic Affairs (2 AP)
- [] Bonesingers
-- [] Enhance Industry x 2 (6 AP + 2 x Forge of Vaul)
-- [] Armour Foundry - Voidguard Warsuit (2 AP)
-- [] Weapon Forge - Sunblaster Rifle (2 AP)
-- [] Weapon Foundry - Light Rending Blade (2 AP)
-- [] Develop Basic Grenades (1 AP)
-- [] Continue ship repair (1 AP)
-- [] Continue ship refits (1 AP)
- [] Seers
-- [] The Eye of Tzeentch (10 AP)
- [] Seekers
-- [] Grav-Gun Hybridization
--- [] Perfect Hybridization (6 AP)
-- [] Reverse-engineer Haywire Weapons
--- [] Scrambler Fields (6 AP)
- [] Warriors
-- [] Organize Troops (2 AP)
-- [] The Burden of Command (1 AP)
-- [] Chassis Militization x3 (6AP)
-- [] Develop Refit Profiles (1 AP)

Idea of this plan is to get our house in order while the sun is shining. Start the process of expanding both our basic industry and getting the production facilties for our standard gear built so we can start accumulating stockpiles. Engines can wit until we have that done so we can throw lots of AP at it all at once and complete actions in a single go rather than have them lingering part complete not doing anything useful for turns.

For Seers, I think we want to just keep on hammering the Curse of Tzeentch while it's weak. Keep kicking Kairos while he's down.

For seekers, I want to spend the maximum on the Haywire weapons we pick, so maximise the chances of getting high quality results, and I also want to see the potential spin offs of a perfect Grav-Gun.

For warriors, I think we need to see if we can get our fragile psykers off the field, and start the process of getting militarised vehicle chassis as soon as possible. It might take a while, so we should start ASAP.
 
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The way I see it everyone else is gonna be voting for their own submission so I am not sure what other consensus there actually is.
My plan is about opening the mystery boxes, poking the other two curses so we get a short description of them like we do for tzeentch's curse, but that does not seem to be very popular.
I would like to open the Meson blaster mystery box, as that is Mechanis original content, so we have nothing concrete on what kind of weapons they are.

But since those are unlikely to happen, i'm probably going to vote for perfect hybridization plans, because I want to see the seekers work at full potential.
 
Sidenote but I just realised that we didn't get confirmation that the ork pirates are gone... Should we send more ships or allied fleet there?
 
Sidenote but I just realised that we didn't get confirmation that the ork pirates are gone... Should we send more ships or allied fleet there?
In update "987.M29 | Turn 4 | A battle won" we have this:
The fleet will linger here for perhaps another five years or so, to search through untouched orkish treasure-hordes for anything of actual value and catch any straggling survivors that were away from the base at the time of its destruction, but this task is effectively over.

If the orks weren't gone, our crews wouldn't be looting.
 
It is extremely important, but so is getting our ability to organize our shit back after the mauling we took from Steward--and it's even worse if opening Diplomacy comes with another tax as well. If we somehow end up where we can't actually afford to upgrade our Steward Hall, we're fucked.
Our AP going down hurts, and the concern that we'd lose out on more of it by spinning off another Sign isn't unreasonable. But I don't think it is likely to be mechanically possible to reduce our Steward AP beyond the point where we can restore it; that feels like paranoia about bad GMing more than a realistic concern. It would simply be bad game design to give us options that upgrade ourselves into becoming worse.

+5 Steward AP/turn and the ability to respond to the most urgent and immediate of our current diplomatic situations.
Exactly what diplomatic situations are we in that are so urgent and immediate that they demand sacrificing all of next turn's diplomacy, effectively delaying our ability to address anything except themselves until at least Turn 7? I don't see anything. Wouldn't it be better to hit a larger number of things turn 6?

As for the +5 Steward AP, with Steward AP no longer needed for military management (as that's now Warrior) and no longer needed for diplomatic management (as that moves to Herald) what do we urgently need +5 Steward AP for? More efficient raiding of the relic vaults for high technology that we don't have the Seeker AP to effectively reverse-engineer anyway? The whole Steward category is next to empty.

Also, if all the Sign of the Herald stuff requires Steward AP, opening it up a turn earlier doesn't do any good 'cause we won't be able to take any of the actions it opens next turn anyway.
Sign of the Herald stuff should require... Herald AP. The Signs are our AP types, definitionally, unless you mean that you think Herald is going to have a lot of cross-Sign actions? But that seems unlikely.

the 5 steward AP is fantastic, and it also unlocks hero actions... Of which we have 8... Who are currently swamped doing administration rather than actual stuff they're good at.
We have 5 diplomatic engagements that we know about...2 ap should handle two of them, which are relatively time sensitive. Narcretinei and Stel-Uit. The rest (the two adaptationists and Lalc-Tann) can wait.
Look at the list of Steward options and tell me what 5 extra AP there is actually going to do for us. Steward AP is basically gacha rolls at this point- either gambling that the new actions generated are better than the existing ones, or gambling that we get cool stuff out of the relic vaults. And that's fine, if you like that sort of game.

"Sign of the Hero is going to be awesome, better than Sign of the Herald" is a stance I don't agree with but at least can buy other people keeping to.

Nacretinei isn't a diplomatic action, or shouldn't be; we already got the diplomatic kickoff for that quest at the moot: "They're gone and we don't know where they are!" What is a diplomatic action going to do for us, spend the next five years re-confirming that their friends still don't know where they are? To pursue that questline we need to immediately use Seer AP to locate them and Warrior actions to dispatch actual fleets and warhosts to find them. If we don't do both this turn then the odds of successfully retrieving them with at least a few left alive plummet.

Because we are in Warhammer heroes are so so much potentially more important than delay of one turn with proper diplomatic channels.

My guy, another thing is that proper stewardship build will also unlock more stewardship options. And food is not an issue for the next few decades/turns
See previous comments on this one, I guess. You're right that new Steward options are likely to emerge but whether they'll be important enough to justify the investment relative to the importance of diplomacy is a major gamble. And if not... well, then we just have a pile of extra AP to spend on the farming that you're observing is unneeded.
 
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So, for my plan I've assumed that our core Wargear will include:

Voidguard Warsuits
Sunblaster Rifles
Light Rending Blades

Is there anything that people think should be substituted for one or more of those this turn?
 
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SO, for my plan I've assumed that our core Wargear will be:

Voidguard Warsuits
Sunblaster Rifles
Light Rending Blades

Is there anything that people think should be substituted for one or more of those?

Add in Ithilmar when they carry heavy weapons otherwise the heavy weapons will see far less use due to the Eldar style of warfare.
 
I'm perfectly happy with those three.

Maybe start up a Mirage production line, see what that looks like in practice.

I think we should consider waiting on vehicle production lines until we've tried to militarise our chassises, in case we get lucky and one finsihes fast, and build the other forges/foundries we might need first and vehicle ones last.

The one thing I thought of was Ithilmar rather than Light Rending Blades.

Add in Ithilmar when they carry heavy weapons otherwise the heavy weapons will see far less use due to the Eldar style of warfare.

I think that's something for next turn, as I think 2 Enhance Industries are important, unless it can substitute for one of these three pieces of gear.
 
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I'm certainly going to be voting for Alectais plan, it does what I think is important (and I also had promised to do this in exchange for the needler forge last turn) and we need to start putting those weapons into hands for them to actually be useful.

The way I see it everyone else is gonna be voting for their own submission so I am not sure what other consensus there actually is.
possibly agreeing to focus on Haywire bombs so their possibly ready by turn 8 and can be used in a strike craft design ahead of making foundries for it?

I think people will compromise later based on there preferences.
We spent an extensive part of a day talking to their friend that was worried about them going missing, I would be very surprised if we hadn't been told where they were last off screen.

@Mechanis do we have the info we need to scout where the craftworld was last known to be or will that have to wait until we diplo our quest giver again?
we spent perhaps a quart or a day speaking to numerous independent craft worlds, getting a general feel for their political leaning and interests, of which Stel'ys Ran was but one. we are talking dozens of representatives. we saw in nephew interlude how short these meetings are when their not with a single individual. odds are decent we have the name of a system we have no idea to reach in a region we have no path to.
Nacretinei isn't a diplomatic action, or shouldn't be; we already got the diplomatic kickoff for that quest at the moot: "They're gone and we don't know where they are!" What is a diplomatic action going to do for us, spend the next five years re-confirming that their friends still don't know where they are? To pursue that questline we need to immediately use Seer AP to locate them and Warrior actions to dispatch actual fleets and warhosts to find them. If we don't do both this turn then the odds of successfully retrieving them with at least a few left alive plummet.
cross analyze information they've gathered in the decade since with the resources of three craft worlds? using information they had shared with their allies about their doom and comparing it to our records to try and guess it's origin in quest?
 
As for the +5 Steward AP, with Steward AP no longer needed for military management (as that's now Warrior) and no longer needed for diplomatic management (as that moves to Herald) what do we urgently need +5 Steward AP for? More efficient raiding of the relic vaults for high technology that we don't have the Seeker AP to effectively reverse-engineer anyway? The whole Steward category is next to empty.
I don't think that's going to be the situation after we take that action.

That action is basically founding a government for the craftworld. There's a bunch of stuff that's probably not available, because there are no structures.Aresh Vul and Sons are making all the decisions and having to find people to delegate to.

Think of how much the shrine of khaine unlocked. This is likely to be as big, and the sooner we have it, the sooner we can benefit from it.
 
- [] Seers
-- [] The Eye of Tzeentch (10 AP)
I'm pretty sure any Seer plan that doesn't learn something about Nacretinei this turn, or next turn at the absolute latest, is probably going to fail that quest. So while I understand the impulse to go all in on the Curse here, it should only be done if making the deliberate decision that the quest to save them is too hard and we're not going to pursue it.

- [] Seekers
-- [] Grav-Gun Hybridization
--- [] Perfect Hybridization (6 AP)
-- [] Reverse-engineer Haywire Weapons
--- [] Scrambler Fields (6 AP)
Since this is likely to lock us out of all other Haywire designs in the short to medium term, I'm not a fan. For all the debate over combi-grav I don't really think we need to kick off anything in that research line right now; better to throw all 12 AP at Haywire (half at Scrambler Fields and half at Haywire Bombs would be my preference) to get everything that we reasonably can out of that tech line and do it right, and then move to focusing on combi-grav afterward.

- [] Warriors
-- [] Organize Troops (2 AP)
-- [] The Burden of Command (1 AP)
-- [] Chassis Militization x3 (6AP)
-- [] Develop Refit Profiles (1 AP)
I can certainly see the appeal of multiple chassis militarizations; we certainly can use a militarized jetbike, speeder, grav-tank, interceptor, and probably more. That will lock up a fair bit of AP for potentially quite some time but there's a solid argument to be made that it's better to start only building expensive vehicles when we have good vehicle designs to pour that EP into instead of mass-producing mediocre technicals. But I do have some concern that one refit profile isn't enough and is likely to leave a lot of equipment that we're currently producing on the floor. Can you specify the refit action that you'd like to be doing in the plan here so that we can check for that?
 
Again, I Really don't think it's as easy as just "Spam this and we'll Win".

We've been told we're not going to be operating with Perfect Information, and I want to start getting some of our basic stuff out of the way while we have a moment to breathe instead of Making Numbers Go Up at the expense of everything else that also needs to be done.

BAP is very good, yes.

But it doesn't override everything else we have on the table either.

That's it. I'm happy raising it once per turn, and even twice per turn can be justified, but we have so many other projects on deck that I'm uncomfortable just assuming we can rush it and just "Catch Up" on everything else afterwards.
 
I can certainly see the appeal of multiple chassis militarizations; we certainly can use a militarized jetbike, speeder, grav-tank, interceptor, and probably more. That will lock up a fair bit of AP for potentially quite some time but there's a solid argument to be made that it's better to start only building expensive vehicles when we have good vehicle designs to pour that EP into instead of mass-producing mediocre technicals. But I do have some concern that one refit profile isn't enough and is likely to leave a lot of equipment that we're currently producing on the floor. Can you specify the refit action that you'd like to be doing in the plan here so that we can check for that?

Pretty sure we will get a mandatory vote for the retrofit action.
Like it was for the refit votes before.
 
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