Kolar
Is Not A Robot
Its not my profred option, but I don't see the point in dying on that particular hill. Simple is a fine compromise choice I think.
A Different Breed (Warhammer 29K)
Interesting note:
While we can't dispatch or recall our own forces at the moment, we can still send allied forces out and about.
I think we're just paralyzed by needing to rebuild our chains of command.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Part of why I wanted some info there. I do think slipping over there and picking at the bones might be useful to our Seekers current projects, but I'd like to have it confirmed if possible.
Did some quick spread-sheeting based on the required number of Wraithbone Trauma Plates and Wraithweave Voidsuits that our detachments cost and we'd need a total of 3742 Wraithweave Brigantines to replace all of them.
We did produce 1858 Wraithweave Brigantines back in Turn 2 so we've got just a little over half (1884 more) of our Trauma Plates and Voidsuits that still need to be phased out.
At our current rate of production of 450/turn we've got around 5 turns before we'd have enough to fully replace all the plates and voidsuits.
Replacing the various lasguns is a bit more complicated because a decent number of those Voidsuit and Trauma Plate equipped troops are vehicle crews who probably can't use Needler rifles so we may need to setup a second production line for vehicle crew weapons.
We will need to refit our ships in the future once we get better Combi-Gravs either way so settling for a combo of Amps and Imps has the benefit of being less expensive and given the fact that the main cost of ships is time if we want to pump out as many refits as quickly possible the Amp Imp combo should be better.
We did produce 1858 Wraithweave Brigantines back in Turn 2 so we've got just a little over half (1884 more) of our Trauma Plates and Voidsuits that still need to be phased out.
At our current rate of production of 450/turn we've got around 5 turns before we'd have enough to fully replace all the plates and voidsuits.
Replacing the various lasguns is a bit more complicated because a decent number of those Voidsuit and Trauma Plate equipped troops are vehicle crews who probably can't use Needler rifles so we may need to setup a second production line for vehicle crew weapons.
Not sure Crude Hybridization is worth it given the significant penalties compared to Simple Hybridization.
I think that we should just settle for having a mix of Amplifier and Imploder weapons as a stopgap until we've got Simple Hybridization since none of our current ship are utilizing all their weapon slots (cruisers using half, light cruisers using 3/5) so we have plenty of room to mount additional weapons.
We will need to refit our ships in the future once we get better Combi-Gravs either way so settling for a combo of Amps and Imps has the benefit of being less expensive and given the fact that the main cost of ships is time if we want to pump out as many refits as quickly possible the Amp Imp combo should be better.
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Mechanis
Confirmed Extremely Screwed
- Location
- Absconding with Alacrity
You could send at least a preliminary "see what's what" mission to more througly survey things off the cuff, yes. It's not come up as a proper project in setting because the stuff isn't exactly going anywhere and the general perception is it can wait a few decades for more of the low hanging fruit and major problems with your equipment and organizational/administrative h structures to get finished.
edit: of course, anybody who still has spaceflight, you probably want to send something with holo-fields in first, of course, unless you intend to start doing diplomacy with them. Which you may want to hold off on until you, y'know, actually have a serious diplomatic corps.
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Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Alright, would that require WAP or is it a free action level thing?
Can we do this? I think Forge APs can be used to enhance an action, not to do an action. If we can't then can drop melta.
Also, I'd vote for a plan that does seer circle. I think with our main quest based on seer ap, we'd better work on this tech tree.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Ugh
Fine, I'll adjust Again.
Rassinfrassin....
EDIT: Done, I hope this satisfies everyone.
I still don't think it'll be as decisive as some people think, but I know when I'm beaten and will adjust the draft accordingly.
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- Pronouns
- Reader
It's certainly worth checking, but Candesce explanation does make sense. personally there is no way a massive doomstack of Orks just went home after we left, so their definitely in a pitched fight with someone right now or collecting scrap from a victory. either way, they won't show up to Kronite for a few turns at least, and that's we have patrols described in my version for.
does the job, keeps an eye out for Orks as well.
would you give my plan a look over? it does a lot of the same things yours does other than foundries, which it removes for seer circle, and drops some stuff to militarize a hull for a proper carrier model, which I think will be critical to avoiding a lot of inefficiency a carrier based on our current hulls would end up dealing with.
Mechanis
Confirmed Extremely Screwed
- Location
- Absconding with Alacrity
Dispatching hosts and or fleets is a free action, yes.
Basically, you can order around your existing armies and fleets as you like, because the cost of having them to order around is, as one can see, rather significant. One way or another, you spent a fairly significant amount of AP to train and equip such fleets and armies, after all; the flipside being that, naturally, ships and troops that are off Doing Things™ aren't available if you suddenly need them for something else.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Take a look at the Draft I just did @Randino Treviani , I've pushed the Seer Circle in at the cost of the Foundries because everyone insists on it and I've given up fighting against it.
But I'm absolutely not going to get behind doing a double-Enhance Industry action, no way no how. The costs in BAP increase if it's not covered with the Forge, and BAP is very tightly controlled right now. One per turn until the Diminishing Returns fairy rolls in I think in, each time paired with a Forge action so we minimize our BAP investments over time.
Thank you very much. I'm guessing a Feudal World doesn't count as "Spacefaring", right?
But I'm absolutely not going to get behind doing a double-Enhance Industry action, no way no how. The costs in BAP increase if it's not covered with the Forge, and BAP is very tightly controlled right now. One per turn until the Diminishing Returns fairy rolls in I think in, each time paired with a Forge action so we minimize our BAP investments over time.
Thank you very much. I'm guessing a Feudal World doesn't count as "Spacefaring", right?
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Mechanis
Confirmed Extremely Screwed
- Location
- Absconding with Alacrity
definitely not. Places that can construct Voidcraft are noted; places that can't are also noted.
- Location
- Somewhere Beyond the Sea
Bringing this snippet of perfect hybrid to everyone's attention (I suggest grabbing at least simple and perfect hybrid in any plans)
Basically, I forsee this to improve our power armour designs by a considerable margin
That's fair. I personaly am going to shut up after we make the seer circle, even if it only makes things safer I am all for it given that 2 chaos gods want to murder us and 1 main deamon, while we are using seer ap to directly oppose them. So normal infrastructure can be made
Not sure a new hull for a carrier is necessary, we have two different hulls that should give us solid carriers, the Dhow (10 System Slots) for a light carrier and the Clipper (12 System slots) for a cruiser scale one.
Several people have floated light carrier designs that are straight up superior in terms of strikecraft count (+4 hangars vs 3) to Arach-Qin's light carrier which is the only example we've seen and they are a naval warfare oriented Craftworld and I'm sure we've cooked up cruiser scale carriers with a similarly greater strikecraft capacity.
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- Location
- India
Is Anathema a new concept and why it's power do hostile against chaos?
DarkLight140
Credit to Team
- Location
- Lost in my thoughts
Is there a reason you'd think that? They're a pre-Fall design chosen by a craftworld of militaristic industrialists so I'd expect them to be relatively polished. Neither of those cultural traits seem likely to go for a slapdash sort of weapon when they could have been choosing from the whole breadth of high technology that the Empire had on the table. They might not have gone for Perfect because making microfusion reactors or whatever would be too much of a pain (aka, take too many EP to be worth the improved performance) but they could absolutely do better than just welding two guns together and calling it good.
It's painful but doable, those 2 fewer System Slots compared to the Dhow make pretty rough.
[] Light Carrier Caravel Example (8 System | 4 Weapon Batteries | 1 Heavy Weapon Battery)
-[] Trade in 3 Weapon Slots for 3 System Slot
-[] 1x Heavy Las-Lance -1 Heavy Weapon Slot
-[] 1x Las-Lance Weapon Batteries - 1 Weapon Slot
-[] 3x Æthersail - 3 System slot
-[] 1x Las-Lance Point Defense Battery - 1 System slot
-[] Holo-Field -1 System Slot
-[] Grav-Shield - 2 system Slots
-[] 4x Hanger - 4 System Slots
We can drop the Las-Lances for other weapons but as you can see it's armaments' are pretty barebones in order to fit the engines, PD, hangars, and active defenses. I opted to keep a Grav-Shield for extra survivability since it's a light cruiser which is the most fragile capital ship scale vessel and since we've invested 4 hangars into it we don't want to be losing these things.
Edit:
No plasma thrusters because this thing shouldn't be getting shot at to begin with unless all it's escorts are dead and in that scenario 3 Aethersails allowing it run away faster seems more useful.
Novacannon type weapons could be a concern as that is kind of a blindspot for Grav-Shields so depending on how many slots our new Energy-Dispersion Barrier Generator (EDBG) takes up we could either drop something for that or cram in a Plasma Thruster.
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A reminder:
Militarizing ship hulls probably isn't just about moving slots around more efficiently when converting guns to system slots. We're currently missing damage control features and compartmentalization, which sounds to me like we might get more HP / higher toughness out of a militarization even if we don't move any slots around.
- Location
- Seattle, Washington
Yeah, I bet that a militarized vehicle would be able to mount enough armor to take a hit, for example
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
[ ] Third Draft: The Dawn of a New Day
-[ ][STEWARD] Move Existing Councils (5 AP)
-[ ][STEWARD} Manage Diplomatic Affairs (2 AP)
-[ ][BONESINGER] Replace Primary Power Distribution Control (2 AP)
-[ ][BONESINGER] Enhance Industry (3 AP)
--[ ][FORGE] Use the Forge (One Turn Completion)
-[ ][BONESINGER] Seer Circle (4 AP)
--[ ][FORGE] Use the Forge (-1d3 Turns to Completion)
-[ ][BONESINGER] Continue ship repair (1 AP) [Strongly recommended]
-[ ][BONESINGER] Continue ship refits (1 AP)
-[ ][BONESINGER] Develop Basic Grenades (1 AP)
-[ ][BONESINGER] Develop Basic Voidship Torpedos (2 AP)
-[ ][BONESINGER] Develop Melta Weapons (1 AP)
-[ ][SEER] Scry the Future (1 AP)
--[ ] Which world will be the next target of the Orks plaguing our neighborhood?
-[ ][SEER] Scry on the Present (1 AP)
--[ ] Where is Nacretinei right now?
-[ ][SEER] Raise a Seeing Circle (2 AP)
-[ ][SEER] The Eye of Tzeentch (6 AP)
-[ ][SEEKER] Grav-Gun Hybridization
--[ ] Simple Hybridization (3 AP)
-[ ][SEEKER] Reverse-engineer Haywire Weapons
--[ ] Haywire Guns (2 AP)
--[ ] Haywire Bombs (3 AP)
--[ ] Scrambler Field (4 AP)
-[ ][WARRIOR] Organize Troops (2 AP)
-[ ][WARRIOR] Commission Strike Craft (1 AP)
-[ ][WARRIOR] The Burden of Command (1 AP)
-[ ][WARRIOR] Design Escorts (1 AP)
-[ ][WARRIOR] Design a Light Capital (Cruiser or Light Cruiser) (2 AP)
-[ ][WARRIOR] Chassis Militarization (2 AP)
-[ ][WARRIOR] Develop Refit Profiles (3 AP)
--[ ] Wraithbone Trauma Plates and Wraithweave Void Suits to be replaced with Wraithweave Brigantine. Infantry Lasweapons replaced with Infantry Needle Weapons
-[ ][WARRIOR] Deploy forces to conduct an exploration and salvage mission in the Kronite System
--[ ] Send 1 Combat Brig, 4 Battle Carracks, 10 Assault Ketches, and 20 Lance Sloops, Zahr-Tann's 15th Scout Fleet is to assist as they are able and provide early warning in case any local Problems decide to start coming our way.
--[ ] Blades of Isha are to be deployed as a precautionary measure and to ensure the security of our investigators in case anything nasty is still living in those wrecks, their skills in close quarters combat will be valuable then.
---[ ] This is not to be a combat operation despite the forces being deployed, our objective is to salvage any artifacts from the human wreckage that may provide useful insights for our own Seekers, sure, it's crude and poorly developed--but the core principles are still useful, and we're hardly in a position to be picky for sources of how to rebuild our forge-craft without the blessings of the Phoenix Court. Withdraw if there is any significant risk of sustaining damage.
MAJOR REVISIONS FROM FIRST DRAFT
Grav-Gun Hybridization has been moved up to Basic Hybridization due to significant outcry. This took 2 points from the Scrambler Field project, but it'll get us a superior weapon when it's ready.
Refit Profiles were adjusted to replace our shitty Trauma Plates and Void Suits with Brigantine, and Infantry Lasweapons with Needle Weapons.
Due to absolutely relentless bullying by everyone, removed the Forge and Foundry construction options to start on the Seer Circle and moved the Forge Action to that to speed it up a bit.
Added a deployment to the Kronite System to see if we can sneak a quick salvage op in while nobody's looking that way. Mostly in-house forces using pre-Fall upgunned merchantmen that haven't been refit yet, with orders that this is a salvage and investigation mission, and not a combat one. They are to withdraw if they run into anything greater than token resistance.
THINGS TO CONSIDER:
Scrying Options aren't something I'm 100% committed to.
-[ ][STEWARD] Move Existing Councils (5 AP)
-[ ][STEWARD} Manage Diplomatic Affairs (2 AP)
-[ ][BONESINGER] Replace Primary Power Distribution Control (2 AP)
-[ ][BONESINGER] Enhance Industry (3 AP)
--[ ][FORGE] Use the Forge (One Turn Completion)
-[ ][BONESINGER] Seer Circle (4 AP)
--[ ][FORGE] Use the Forge (-1d3 Turns to Completion)
-[ ][BONESINGER] Continue ship repair (1 AP) [Strongly recommended]
-[ ][BONESINGER] Continue ship refits (1 AP)
-[ ][BONESINGER] Develop Basic Grenades (1 AP)
-[ ][BONESINGER] Develop Basic Voidship Torpedos (2 AP)
-[ ][BONESINGER] Develop Melta Weapons (1 AP)
-[ ][SEER] Scry the Future (1 AP)
--[ ] Which world will be the next target of the Orks plaguing our neighborhood?
-[ ][SEER] Scry on the Present (1 AP)
--[ ] Where is Nacretinei right now?
-[ ][SEER] Raise a Seeing Circle (2 AP)
-[ ][SEER] The Eye of Tzeentch (6 AP)
-[ ][SEEKER] Grav-Gun Hybridization
--[ ] Simple Hybridization (3 AP)
-[ ][SEEKER] Reverse-engineer Haywire Weapons
--[ ] Haywire Guns (2 AP)
--[ ] Haywire Bombs (3 AP)
--[ ] Scrambler Field (4 AP)
-[ ][WARRIOR] Organize Troops (2 AP)
-[ ][WARRIOR] Commission Strike Craft (1 AP)
-[ ][WARRIOR] The Burden of Command (1 AP)
-[ ][WARRIOR] Design Escorts (1 AP)
-[ ][WARRIOR] Design a Light Capital (Cruiser or Light Cruiser) (2 AP)
-[ ][WARRIOR] Chassis Militarization (2 AP)
-[ ][WARRIOR] Develop Refit Profiles (3 AP)
--[ ] Wraithbone Trauma Plates and Wraithweave Void Suits to be replaced with Wraithweave Brigantine. Infantry Lasweapons replaced with Infantry Needle Weapons
-[ ][WARRIOR] Deploy forces to conduct an exploration and salvage mission in the Kronite System
--[ ] Send 1 Combat Brig, 4 Battle Carracks, 10 Assault Ketches, and 20 Lance Sloops, Zahr-Tann's 15th Scout Fleet is to assist as they are able and provide early warning in case any local Problems decide to start coming our way.
--[ ] Blades of Isha are to be deployed as a precautionary measure and to ensure the security of our investigators in case anything nasty is still living in those wrecks, their skills in close quarters combat will be valuable then.
---[ ] This is not to be a combat operation despite the forces being deployed, our objective is to salvage any artifacts from the human wreckage that may provide useful insights for our own Seekers, sure, it's crude and poorly developed--but the core principles are still useful, and we're hardly in a position to be picky for sources of how to rebuild our forge-craft without the blessings of the Phoenix Court. Withdraw if there is any significant risk of sustaining damage.
MAJOR REVISIONS FROM FIRST DRAFT
Grav-Gun Hybridization has been moved up to Basic Hybridization due to significant outcry. This took 2 points from the Scrambler Field project, but it'll get us a superior weapon when it's ready.
Refit Profiles were adjusted to replace our shitty Trauma Plates and Void Suits with Brigantine, and Infantry Lasweapons with Needle Weapons.
Due to absolutely relentless bullying by everyone, removed the Forge and Foundry construction options to start on the Seer Circle and moved the Forge Action to that to speed it up a bit.
Added a deployment to the Kronite System to see if we can sneak a quick salvage op in while nobody's looking that way. Mostly in-house forces using pre-Fall upgunned merchantmen that haven't been refit yet, with orders that this is a salvage and investigation mission, and not a combat one. They are to withdraw if they run into anything greater than token resistance.
THINGS TO CONSIDER:
Scrying Options aren't something I'm 100% committed to.
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5 bucks says its going to be the shrine of khaine and the foundry again, Everyone is going to underestimate the relative diffrence, put it off for a few turns, and then be completly shocked at how stark the difference is.
If that's the case then our first fully militarized ship hulls should be designed for direct combat rather than a carrier since those things would benefit the most from improved HP/Toughness due to being shot at way more than a carrier would be.
Edit:
Not to say that such a hull couldn't be used for carrier purposes (IRL cruiser and battlecruiser hulls turned out to be decent carrier hulls) but the priority first and foremost should be in making that hull optimized for direct engagements.
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