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A Different Breed (Warhammer 29K)

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Mechanis said:
Killing (at least one of) the Chaos Gods is possible - Drach'nyen could, for example, if someone capable of powering it enough managed to fight their way into a god's Place of Power and survive long enough to actually stab the God in question. Which, granted, is a fairly high bar.

Some of the saner (or possibly least sane, depending on your perspective) Cryptechs could probably come up with something, too. Even if that something was "steal a Blackstone Fortress, reverse engineer the main gun, also Voidcannons, then build an even bigger one, invade Cormorragh, and shoot the thing through Khane's Gate until everything on the other side stops moving."

Kademon with the Fulgerite in hand could probably at least do in Slaanesh, if he could get a solid hit in, and wasn't exhausted fighting a couple hundred Daemonic Legions to have the opportunity first.

Now pretty much all of these and other, similar circumstances are generally far easier said than done, but it is possible to kill even a God of Chaos.
Just
Very, very difficult.​
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That's an interesting take on the chaos gods. At risk going off-topic I was always under the impression that the gods of chaos were less gods and more forces of nature. While there is a big mean daemon on a throne in each of the gods respective realms that calls itself Slaanesh, Khorne, or Nurgle even if you killed them another daemon calling themselves that name would eventually pop up and take its place. Because 'Slaanesh' or 'Nurgle' aren't singular daemons, they're all of their servants, they're their realms, and to a small degree they are the emotions they're born from. You can't 'kill' them anymore than you could kill gravity or the concept of thermodynamics.

Though knowing that they are in fact unfathomably powerful daemons on a throne makes them slightly more manageable for the purposes of the quest. Still nigh impossible but better than what I thought.
 
The Code of Vau-Valkesh

Improvise, Adapt, Overcome, Ensure.​

  • Improvise a solution to whatever problem has arisen with whatever is on hand​

  • Adapt your approach to said problem as you study it and more options become known.

  • Overcome the problem with your perfected solution.

  • Ensure 3 things.
    • That measures are created and implemented to prevent the problem from arising again.
    • That contingencies are made in case the problem does arise again.
    • That every step of the way, everything was documented so that future generations can learn from the entire process and refine it.





Just a little thing that came to mind while reading through the quest.
 
Nomadic Maniac said:
You can't 'kill' them anymore than you could kill gravity or the concept of thermodynamics.
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The birth of Slaanesh wouldn't make much sense if it was a force of nature. Gravity or thermodynamics can't be created, they were always there.

Though I imagine if you do manage to stab one of the gods in such a way that they perma-die, if the underlying emotions that caused them to form persist, eventually a new god with the same or similar domain would form again unless an existing god moved to gobble up all that conceptual space.

Mechanis also didn't say what happens to a god's daemons if you killed it. Maybe they go poof, or maybe they are first in line to new godhood to fill the empty spot.
 
The lore sometimes says that the birth of Slaanesh was actually retro-causal, but who knows if Mechanis is going to be using that particular interpretation.
 
The "you can't kill a concept therefore you can't kill a god" doesn't make sense to me. Someone definitely killed and ate a chaos god of fear, for one.
 
So... when do people think it would be reasonable to try to get our hands on a Blackstone fortress?

Those voidcannons won't reverse engineer themselves...
 
Regarding killing The 4, the theory I ascribe to is that like the Orks, they were an attempt to make a weapon for the War in Heaven. One that drew on emotional power and concepts to take the fight to the Old One's enemies in the Warp. But like the Orks the cure was worse than the disease. So, the 4 are God Constructs like the Aeldari pantheon, with Slaneesh not having been properly activated before the Old Ones died out. So the Aeldari primed the construct husk with all of the worst elements of themselves, leading to She Who Thirsts.
 
TempestK said:
Regarding killing The 4, the theory I ascribe to is that like the Orks, they were an attempt to make a weapon for the War in Heaven. One that drew on emotional power and concepts to take the fight to the Old One's enemies in the Warp. But like the Orks the cure was worse than the disease. So, the 4 are God Constructs like the Aeldari pantheon, with Slaneesh not having been properly activated before the Old Ones died out. So the Aeldari primed the construct husk with all of the worst elements of themselves, leading to She Who Thirsts.
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I would say that Slaanesh probably offers us the way to explain the four. Opposed to them being weapons i would say that they are more of a thoughts and feelings that resonated within the Warp during the War in Haven. War in Haven was quite Traumatic event for the Univere and it probably pushed Warp to its limits in similar way Eldari species wide orgy did, enough so that it birthed entities known as Chaos God's down the line.

Elero said:
The birth of Slaanesh wouldn't make much sense if it was a force of nature. Gravity or thermodynamics can't be created, they were always there.
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There's a Good theory that Eldari just quickened birth of Slaanesh from already present concept. Slaanesh was premature birth riding high on Eldari Empire's decadence.
 
Profilozof said:
Probably somewhen after dealing with local orks
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Depends on how the Aleldmoot goes. If we can put out the fire Biel Tan was starting and get a common front to start addressing the Curses agreed, then the Eldar as a whole could well be focusing on gathering up and sharing potentially useful technology and relics, in which case we may be hosting allied fleets who are looking to recover the Talismans of Vaul for the collective effort if we can provide intelligence that they're nearby.

More generally, if we could agree to established a joint task force that could concentrate overwhelming force against local threats. The Webway's strategic mobility gives the Eldar this option which their internal divisions prevented them from using in canon, but by having enemies dealt with serially rather than in parallel could really minimise Eldar casualties. Contributing significantly to that could be a good way for Biel Tan to atone without having to be obvious about it,

Such a task force might also have the strength to be more effective at salvaging from dead Craftworlds and the True Stars (and, as a side note, the fact that Biel Tan chose to attack living Craftworlds for their relics rather than salvage from dead worlds is a real wtf)..

It's a real shame we didn't bring the Sword of Vaul, as offering to commit that to such an effort would be a real statement that could shake the larger Craftworlds into contributing significant forces.

However, we can still offer tech sharing as an incentive to shame people into joining such an alliance, allowing us to strengthen the force in the long run that way.
 
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TempestK said:
Regarding killing The 4, the theory I ascribe to is that like the Orks, they were an attempt to make a weapon for the War in Heaven. One that drew on emotional power and concepts to take the fight to the Old One's enemies in the Warp. But like the Orks the cure was worse than the disease. So, the 4 are God Constructs like the Aeldari pantheon, with Slaneesh not having been properly activated before the Old Ones died out. So the Aeldari primed the construct husk with all of the worst elements of themselves, leading to She Who Thirsts.
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No need for speculation we have word of QM for that:
Mechanis said:
they were born from the absolute madness and horror of the War In Heaven, when the titanic struggle between the Old Ones and their servant-races and the Necrons and their C'tan masters set the galaxy on fire, past, present and future. That lot made the Great Time War between the Dalaks and the Timelords look like a schoolyard scuffle and the modern galaxy is still dealing with the fallout even in the forty-first millennia. Tzeench at his core is the Madness of a war that encompassed past, present and future, where precognitives dueled time-travelers in an endless information war, where reinforcements could just as easily come from the distant past or far future and vanish as the very probability of their existence was erased---and his self-defeating plots within plans within schemes that are always exactly as planned and never as planned at the same time is a reflection of this. Khorne is the Horror of War: pointless and endless, fighting for the sake of fighting, no victory ever achievable, just more blood, more death, more sacrifice, more, more, MORE!---such is the Lord of Skulls. Nurgle is the Ruination of War: sacrificing everything you once held dear to live one more day, one more minute, one more heartbeat, only for it to amount to nothing in the end as all turns to rot anyway, and the black despair of a war with no hope.

They're evil and cancerous because their core concepts are rooted in evil, cancerous things, and that remains true no matter how much good they subsume.
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It's a pretty nice piece of world building as an explanation of how they started.

That said no they aren't weapons made by the old ones, they are just one of the many by products that started to show up in the warp as a result of the war.
 
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Skjadir said:
No need for speculation we have word of QM for that:


It's a pretty nice piece of world building as an explanation of how they started.

That said no they aren't weapons made by the old ones, they are just one of the many by products that started to show up in the warp as a result of the war.
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Didn't read that but i like the description of how every single Chaos God was brought into existence and it draws a nice Parallel to Slaanesh and excess of Eldari Empire.
 
Skjadir said:
No need for speculation we have word of QM for that:
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Ah, I had missed that. So yeah that turns things a bit sideways, but it does also support the fact that they're not tied directly to the Warp itself, and as such they can be destroyed. Hell, I remember a quest where after the end of the universe, the new universe started with one of the blasted domains of Nurgle reforming into a positive aspect.
 
Even it killing a Chaos God just scatters them and one of their daemons is likely to essentially pick up the pieces and become the successor to their domains, what's important to us all but the very long run is that if we do that to Slaneesh that successor is unlikely to retain its claim on the Phoenix Court.

Particularly if the blow that slays Slaneesh I is struck by and Eldar or one of their gods. If Asurmen or an Avatar of Khaine wields a god killing weapon* to slay Slaneesh as the names Champion of the Eldar and their Pantheon.

This is probably the Biel Tan vision for victory, and it could theoretically work. Although they're going about it just about the worst way possible.

* Mechanis said that the Wailing Doom could become a duplicate of any weapon one Eldar used to slay a sapient being. I'm pretty sure that the Deathsword was used to kill some Slaneeshi cultists, and if we could find Drach'nyen even briefly and an Eldar could even briefly get their hands on it to kill themselves or someone else then Khaine could presumably replicate it.
 
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I vote for the Mega-Void cannon shooting through the Gate of Khaine.

Vulkhari to Comorrites: Get in loser, we're going to kill Slaanesh.
 
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We will also be target numero uno for Chaos. If there is one thing they will probably unite over it's self preservation. So it would require a united effort by the Aeldari AND it would be really hard going.

Not undoable. But holy ambitions Batman!
 
The good thing is the inhabitants of the dark city haven't yet had time to fully form into the drukhari as we know them so we could potentially have a huge impact right there. Especially since we can potentially offer them an alternative to both the paths and to their pain feeding.
 
Elero said:
The good thing is the inhabitants of the dark city haven't yet had time to fully form into the drukhari as we know them so we could potentially have a huge impact right there. Especially since we can potentially offer them an alternative to both the paths and to their pain feeding.
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Canon is quite nebulous about what was going on in there at the time.
 
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Elero said:
I think we had some word of QM that they're still in the 'holy shit we are not dead' stage while everyone outside the webway thinks they are dead but eventually they'll poke their head out to find the galaxy on fire. Don't remember the specifics though.
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Mechanis said:
It's also important to note that at present most of the Webway dwellers are in reasonable proximity slash are actually in Cormorragh, which, as far as anyone knows at the moment, is currently either Daemon Central or the back annex of Slaanesh's palace, because nobody in universe knows they managed to slam Khane's Gate closed fast enough for there to be negligible daemonic incursion. So the optimistic estimate is "everyone there is Turbo Dead, but they managed to stop up the door with the pile of bodies and the Ruinous Powers do not have a twelve-lane highway into the middle of the Webway."

And that's unlikely to change until a few of them have a reason to poke their heads (or, well, someone's heads, anyway) out again, because the Harliquins, like anyone who likes being alive and not eaten by Neverborn, are presently avoiding going anywhere near the place, so there's no HUMINT going on there.
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This one I think.

I wonder if Cegorach has any Solitaires that can go take a look.
 
For the dark city we know Vect only got into control of the city in M35, going by canon well after the great crusades.
Before than the pre-fall nobles are/were still in charge of the city.

That said the plot for the take-over is so stupid that I am not sure that it is canon for the quest.

If the time kind of holds we likely will have finished our faction quest by a good bit before then (previous QM statements indicate we can finish that before the great crusade starts). So if we do pretty well i can see us going for the dark city down the line with a lot more build up (and population growth).
 
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IronFist said:
Is that from a novel?
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Nope, I am talking about the Commorragh Raid.

That seems from the 5e dark eldar codex.

The entire setup is just really fucking stupid.
Kidnapp a strike cruise, that somehow gets an SOS out, followed by a (pretty small) imperial strike force* getting into commorragh that managed to kill most of the old nobility.


*single battle barge and some strike cruisers overall not even 3 full chapters worth of power
 
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