Iyanden gets a warning on the last meeting of 2nd day, and they will have just one day to do research on what Biel-Tan have done and damage control. It is enough to gain favour but it is not enough for Biel-Tan to be saved, hopefully
A Different Breed (Warhammer 29K)
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I must agree on Asuryani. Generally it's quite likely that they'll just take Tzeentch and Nurgle into the account.I would actually say that Asuryani will be made even more powerful thanks to this as their entire rationale will be that their methods work and that Eldari are better off adopting their methods until Isha is saved after which Eldari will be restored once again.
No need to take risky Soul surgery, or some other experiments that could risk this (remember one of the risks of our Soul reforging is severing our ties to the Gods).
As for Revanchists? Honestly they might actually have more clearer goal in sight, at least Iyanden. Like for example gather enough military power, fight Chaos, save Isha, or reforge Khaine etc. Then they will defeat Slaanesh and restore the Empire.
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Hopefully we'll be able to break them in half specifically.
most of the other factions only have 1 Major Craftworld supporting them so depressing the toe Revanchists from each other is something I feel should be one of the best outcomes.
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My expectations on the fallout here are significantly more modest than that. I'll be very happy if the Adaptationists come out of here as a recognized "sixth largest faction" at all, and expect our faction as a whole to still be significantly weaker than any of the major craftworlds on their own - even a "humbled" Biel-Tan.
The Froggy Ninja
The Blade Will Never Die
Citation? I mean, they haven't been able to rein them in so far, and they're on the other side of the galaxy. Assuming they have functioning engines, they could resolve that second part pretty quick but having a constant nanny squad is definitely going to piss BT off even more.
Right, right, and what overly prideful people who go to great lengths to conceal their crimes do when their crimes are revealed to the whole world is calmly accept defeat and not do crimes anymore. Definitely not plot vengeance against the perceived slight or decide they have nothing to lose now that their reputation is already ruined and go hog wild.
The reasonable punishment for piracy amongst your own faction is death, though an argument could be made that the Craftworlds don't count as a faction. But sure, putting that aside, let's ask about Eldar morality:
@Mechanis, what were the Dominion punishments for True Killing a fellow Aeldari or colluding with the Necrons?
I mean, sure I guess, but my position is based on the assumption that people will react to this as what it is: An unacceptable threat to the survival of the Aeldari people at a time where unity is most needed. If literally everyone else decides to give them a slap on the wrist, I'm not going to suggest we stand up and screech for their heads. I'm going to think they're being shortsighted morons, but I'm not suggesting that we should, or can, force anyone to do anything. Just what I think the best course of action for the Aeldari as a whole would be, and why I think the other Eldar would agree.
I'm saying that if conflict with them is inevitable, which everything I know about them indicates it would be, even aside from the issues of condoning inter-Aeldari piracy, then I'd rather we kick it off now, while their leader and main strategist is surrounded by people who are going to be mad at him, not on his heavily fortified home turf or a battlefield of his choosing and they haven't started preparations for a fallout with the rest of the Craftworlds, than later when they've had time to stew and dig in and plan.
So you would rather give them time to stew and potentially find backers to make any future defection they might commit to significantly more dangerous?
Could he? You're saying that none of the combined powers here could, on discovering the extent of their crimes, prevent him and his entourage from leaving for at least long enough to come to a consensus about what to do? Because it sounds like what you're positing would happen is this:
Durran Fellwinter: Ladies and gentlemen of the Moot, we have solid evidence of Biel-Tan engaging in slaving and piracy, to the extent of leaving their fellow Craftworlds crippled and defenseless for local threats to kill, condemning the majority of their souls to the horrid stomach of She Who Thirsts.
Archon Aerellian: Alright then, I'm going to just leave now.
The Arrayed Forces of Saim-Hann, Ulthwe, Iyanden and the Harlequins: *Silently watch him and his aides walk over to the nearest Webway gate and leave*
TAF: AH! If only he had willingly chosen to stay behind for questioning!
False equivalency. It would be like if Alaitoc showed up with evidence that we were kidnapping Eldar from other Craftworlds or Maiden Worlds to perform unwilling soul surgery on them. In which case it would be pretty reasonable for them to have Aresh-Vul detained at the Moot while a black ops team went to secure the leadership of Vau-Vulkesh before announcing to the rest of the population that, by majority vote of literally every other Craftworld their leaders were being detained and Vau-Vulkesh was under investigation for crimes against all Aeldari kind.
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I would agree with most of your statements except for the restoration part. Getting Isha back won't restore them. It'll help with Nurgle's and Slaanesh's parts of the curse as she was the Everqueen, but without the other God, we can never go back to the Eldar's peak of power. Soul surgery will mitigate our dependence on our gods for power but we can also learn how to match those peaks in another way. It also seems likely that Soul Surgery is at least the basis for God-forging...
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
I don't think we're going to break the Revanchist cause, especially since we're giving Iyanden an opportunity to damage control, but that's ultimately not our goal. Our goal is to gain legitimacy in our own path and hopefully ensure Biel-Tan is too busy in the upcoming centuries to bother going on adventures. That's not actually in conflict with the Asuryani approach as long as the Asuryani keep in mind the information we're bringing together and adapt the future Paths accordingly.
Ultimately, our best bet is simply to show that we have a roadmap forward, and that there are ways forward that aren't purely passive. We're doing that. That we're not trying to sabotage the Asuryani cause, but ensure that there are a variety of options on the table so that we don't necessarily end up in a position where we have a single monoculture that--if there are any misreads on--risk falling apart.
They might interpret this as a personal attack, but we have a damn good argument to say that our work is essential to the good health of the diaspora regardless--just with our research having mapped out the full scope of the current affliction soon enough that we can target mitigation measures before it's too late is a huge boon.
Ultimately, our best bet is simply to show that we have a roadmap forward, and that there are ways forward that aren't purely passive. We're doing that. That we're not trying to sabotage the Asuryani cause, but ensure that there are a variety of options on the table so that we don't necessarily end up in a position where we have a single monoculture that--if there are any misreads on--risk falling apart.
They might interpret this as a personal attack, but we have a damn good argument to say that our work is essential to the good health of the diaspora regardless--just with our research having mapped out the full scope of the current affliction soon enough that we can target mitigation measures before it's too late is a huge boon.
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I kinda personally want Aeldari do go half-way to the generic many elves type, but all elves state.
Like not high/good elves, dark/evil elves and wood/not involved elves but distinct subspecies like moon elves, sun elves stuff like that.
Like not high/good elves, dark/evil elves and wood/not involved elves but distinct subspecies like moon elves, sun elves stuff like that.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Kind of my hope too, we don't see a lot of "Elves as Craftsmen" in fantasy even though they're historically one of the greats, because that's the hat of the dwarves as far as common fantasy is concerned.
But there aren't really any Dwarves here. Oh sure, the Leagues of Votann might qualify, but they're a new addition to the Lore anyway.
I went with "40K Eonir" though because that seemed about right. Geographically limited, but also with less of the snobbish arrogance of the High Elves.
Agreed.
The 40k galaxy is a big place and has a lot of room for faction diversity that GW doesn't like developing.
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it doesn't. I'm more fond of collecting shinies. if I can, I'll be pushing for a plan with no less than 4 AP on relic vaults until we get something real good. 🤞Webway Key!
your forgetting their faction description.
their are some people who are reluctantly joining because it's the only option viable to them and there was hope it would be a lasting solution. it'll be a small implosion, but they are about to lose some of their members to adaptionists, some to survivalists following the revelation of Isha's survival and imprisonment.
there are three large craft worlds in the faction with other worlds under them. it's a good bet that at least one of those craft worlds and their allies defect to one of the two previously mentioned faction. I'd personally bet on Wayseer being more interested in warpshopping a solution than following the paths after the revelation.
it's definitely enough to gain a favour, but not enough to really be good chums. you could stand to add something about being cordial and trying to find common ground before we tell them. it would be better for us long-term and make it easier to convince them their ally is possibly up to something sketchy and that they should investigate.
I could, but I don't want to be very good chums, and I really doubt being cordial will be enough to be good chums. Actions speak more than words and all of that.
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I'd say that immediately descending into a civil war between major craftworlds less than two decades after the fall of the Empire is itself very shortsighted.
Like, even in the best case scenario where everyone else actually cleanly commits to fighting Biel-Tan... they're still the most militarized craft world by a longshot and are going to go down swinging.
The amount of damage Biel-Tan can cause if they turn purely hostile on their way out is enough to make the current losses to them up to this point look like a rounding error. Like, them reaching a mutual kill with Saim-Hann, or crippling Iyanden to a 40k degree are both on the table.
Does it suck to let them largely "get away" with the damage they've done up to this point? Yes, of course it does, welcome to great power politics.
It's quite likely that they're going to continue to be opportunist backstabbing dickweasels whenever they think they can get away with it. But as long as they even slightly care about being in the good graces of the other majors, "when they can get away with it" just got a whole lot narrower - and the mere fact that they were trying to keep it secret shows that they do, in fact, care about being in the good graces of the other majors.
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So in other words the Asuryani might lose members...or, some of the Asuryani may maintain the Paths while reaching across the aisle to cooperate with the adaptionists. The factions aren't so polarized that members can't stand a foot in one and a foot in the other.
In any case, hardly the collapse of the faction you seemed to indicate, unless Kulkessrin decides to actively stomp on any attempt to cooperate.
The difference between the two Revanchist majors is that one wants to restore the Eldar dominion and the other wants to form the Beil-Tan dominion no matter how hard they try to disguise it.
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fair enough, and the whole thing where being polite and demonstrating interest in cooperation has greater odds of them not just dismissing what we say as an old detractor of Beil-Tan casting shade on their reputation?
the Mechanis quote in the rest of the post, from the first Aeldmoot pre-meetings thread mark. "Many are reluctant to embrace this path fully" and the second quote which puts emphasis on how the Asuryani faction is just a bunch of large craft world lead alliances beneath the major craft world.
It's plausible, likely even, that one of the leaders of these alliances that are a big chunk of the Asurani power block switch to another faction, either because of the unpleasant aspects of the paths and preferring a different solution or because of Isha and a renewed desire to fight the ruinous ones.
it's not a collapse, but an implosion. a faction becoming large out of desperation and lack of alternatives and exceeding it's leaders ability to hold it together to when new developments destabilize some of it's internal elements and remove some of the factors that let it become so big in the first place.
I know we want Biel-Tan taken down a peg or several hundred for being a bunch of self destructive morons but they're strong enough that even after 10 thousand years of being self destructive morons they're still a major player.
Even with their crimes brought to light by us and Saim-Hann I don't think we'll be able to truly muzzle their aggression so we should be looking into directing that aggression onto acceptable targets like Chaos pawns and Orks with a stretch goal of throwing them at Nurgles Realm for when we go free Isha.
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For example if inter-Craftworld/Exodite communication is improved thanks to this Aeldmoot as a result of their crimes being revealed any news of beleaguered Craftworlds and Exodite worlds could spread more easily and as such we could direct their xenocidal tendencies towards those forces rather than just random people poking uncolonized maiden worlds they didn't even know were claimed by the Eldar.
Heck, they could even help contribute more as a check against the forces of the Great Crusade since we know a couple of Exodite and Craftworlds are destroyed by the GC.
Even with their crimes brought to light by us and Saim-Hann I don't think we'll be able to truly muzzle their aggression so we should be looking into directing that aggression onto acceptable targets like Chaos pawns and Orks with a stretch goal of throwing them at Nurgles Realm for when we go free Isha.
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For example if inter-Craftworld/Exodite communication is improved thanks to this Aeldmoot as a result of their crimes being revealed any news of beleaguered Craftworlds and Exodite worlds could spread more easily and as such we could direct their xenocidal tendencies towards those forces rather than just random people poking uncolonized maiden worlds they didn't even know were claimed by the Eldar.
Heck, they could even help contribute more as a check against the forces of the Great Crusade since we know a couple of Exodite and Craftworlds are destroyed by the GC.
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Yeah we don't really care that much as long as we aren't being forced… and now that we've revealed Nurgles curse the Asuryani are probably going to be doing more interested in internal restricting to migittate that particular downfall than bothering us anyway.
Professor Vesca
Good News Everyone!
If it were just us? We would absolutely be dismissed. But its us, and the exodites, and the other craftworlds, backed by Saim-Hann.
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It certainly is, but it doesn't change the fact that their relative support base has been expanded on shaky foundations and is more other big players signing on to their practicable solution in a vacuum of other options than having much in common. I'm not advocating this as something to work towards, but merely pointing it out as a likely possibility and highlighting the likely consequences.
I don't think the post mentioned us bringing any of them along or bringing any proof, so it very much is just us, meeting them in that room, telling them what's up, and hoping they take our suggestion seriously and take our word over the basic assumption there ally is not a terrible marauding kinslaying mugger.
Professor Vesca
Good News Everyone!
We arent bringing anyone along, we are adding our disgruntled voice to everyone elses when Saim-Hann levies the accusation. Everyone is going to go "Biel-Tan press-ganged me!" or "Biel-Tan stole our priceless nutcracker that was used by Eldanesh once!" or "We and all of our neighbors have prophecies of Biel-Tan attacking us or worse!" And as, presumably, the one of the larger victims of Biel-Tan, we can then step forward and propose our solution. One where we recover what we can, magnanimously let Biel-Tann off the hook for whatever we cant or whatever isnt worth the squeeze, and pay off whoever we want to be our friend for the difference.
Mechanis stated that Biel-Tan's only hope is if everyone shuts up about what they are doing. As it turns out, *no one* is shutting up about it and a lot of people are very upset.
Thats why its not just us accusing them. Thats why I think this idea would work.
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Clearly the most fitting punishment is for Beil-Tan to direct its forces against actual enemies of the elder.
Because they clearly have too much time on their hands if they have the free armies and the inclination to harass a bunch of other Eldar.
Because they clearly have too much time on their hands if they have the free armies and the inclination to harass a bunch of other Eldar.
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keep in mind thats 10 thousand years of conscripting other eldar of stealing shit. The fact their still going in 40k with how self-defeating they are says more im my mind of how many people they must have fucked over rather then a suggestion of how strong they are now. Also keep in mind for this quest atleast all the stuff they would have gotten away with stealing now probably helped.
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