By default, probably assume plasma. The exotics are very expensive to put in anything we want lots of, and we haven't had the time to tweak any of our other tech as much as we have our plasma weapons.
Well because it's an IFV rather then an MBT I was thinking of doing something inspired by the Baal predator with a pair of heavy needlers for the main weapon, a pair of Vibration Culverin for secondary weapons and if we don't mind the cost of putting in an extra weapons slot a Sweeper Cannon though the slots spent on the sweeper could probably be better spent on a conversion field.

EDIT: but if we're willing to put an exotic on it a Fateshredder is much better then the twin needlers.
 
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Yeah, there's still so much we don't even know that we don't know. What's this CP resource for instance attached to each Detachment? How do we differentiate between high skill units and civilians with guns?

We can have fancy aspirations, but the point is, I don't want to start drawing deeper than our production in any given turn for Exotics, because we're probably going to have to strip our stockpile bare to arm the Serpent to peak standards.

One part of why I am personally holding back still on the army redesign (well that and being pretty busy RL).
Logistic play a huge role in what we can reliably field.

And we are certainly arming the Serpent with exotics.

CP should be command points, which we've been told has a limit but that it's multiple orders of magnitude over what we've got so Mechanis hasn't been bothering to track it yet; differentiating between troop skills is, I assume, one of those things we need the Shrine of Khaine for.

We are likely talking about at least 1-2 % of our total population being around for that limit potentially a lot more.
So something around 54 000 000 and 108 000 000 CP.

Edit:Takes ~5% of our pop. being called up before we are fielding an army that has more people in it than Zahr-Tann has in total.
 
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Depending on Forge Productivity and the relative effectiveness of Exotic weapons, we could well find that something like building a mix of Starblaster Rifle Foundries along with the Starcrystal Farms required to keep them supplied could get us more bang for our (AP) buck than other options.

We don't know the ratio of Foundries to Farms that would be required, so we don't know how many AP it would take to, say, produce the facilities for a couple of squads a turn worth of starblasters compared to the AP required facilities required for an equivilent combat value of Sunblaster Rifles.

Depending on their relative effectiveness and relative costs the judgement could go either way. This genuinely is one where it's premature to say.

The lower the automated Forge productivity is, the more likely it is the exotic option will be better.
The biggest limit there is that it takes significantly more time and effort to ramp up production of Special Resources than it does equipment in general. They need very high end, very specialized equipment and equally rare and specialized skillsets that take years to train in---it's like the difference between training people to work in a car garage, and training a nuclear reactor operator. Or the difference between a truck driver and an Astronaut.
Your recruiting pool is small to even start, in high demand for at least four other critical fields, and the infrastructure for training them has limited throughput. Whereas even High Technology, for the most part, is fairly easy to ramp up.
 
Given we won't be keeping the bomb bay, we can fit in a holofield and a grav shield. We probably end up with empty slots without equipment options we haven't seen yet; stripping the lighter guns to fit in a second grav shield is possible, but significantly reduces the firepower of our fighter. Depends on if we stick with the starlances or downgrade to plasma and missiles.
I assumed we'd want to refit all of our current strikecraft first before starting on replacements, especially considering how expensive they are to produce.

Though as far as designing an interceptor goes if we don't use exotics we could go the full Grav route and make it's main weapons two Vehicle Graviton Thruster Lances. They'd rely a lot more heavily on pilot skill than Fatesevers, but they'd still be a lot cheaper than the Starlances.

The unreasonable option would be to then make the two supplementary weapons Gravity Blades to allow the pilot to ram enemy strikecraft, though that design might be locked behind the Grand Academy.
Gravity Blades [Melee] [3 AP]
Gravity Blades are effectively an alternative to a Power Blade—rather than a crackling field of matter-disrupting energies, a Gravity Blade creates a gravitic sheer field that will cut through most materials with little resistance. Amusingly, this technology can even be scaled up to the size of Voidships to allow ramming attacks that literally slice through an enemy ship like butter, if one is enamored with Ramming.
Plasma I feel better fits a bomber. We could give them vehicle grade fusion mortars for the rich man's pseudo flak weapon.
 
I wonder if it would be possible for the Ishari to grow Starcrystals / Psy-scopes or if they are locked out of it like Wraithbone. Im not sure about Starcrystals but seeing the future is one of the things the Ishari are really good at. They might be able to improve our Psy-scope production with some training.
 
While I generally agree on being careful with exotics usage.
This comes down to how does the logistic/recruiting side of thing look like in combination with how well/fast can we scale our industry.

There are loads of trade-offs here. One extra Starcrystal Farm makes enough Starcrystals for a hundred Starblaster Rifles a turn, and would cost 5 AP. Consider a couple of example scenarios:

Scenario 1: If one Foundry can produce a 100 Starblaster Rifles a turn (1000 EP worth) then it would be 7 AP to build every 100/Turn worth of automated capability.

Scenario 2: If one Foundry can produce 20 Starblaster Rifles a turn (200 EP worth), then it would be 15 AP to build a 100/Turn automated capability.

Then compare these two scenarios for Sunblaster rifles

Scenario 1: If one Foundry can build 167 Sunblaster Rifles a Turn (1000 AP worth), then it would be 1.7 AP to build 100/Turn worth of automated capability

Scenario 2: If one Foundry can produce 33 Starblaster Rifles a turn (200 EP worth), then it would be 6 AP to build a 100/Turn automated capability.

In Scenario 1, each Starblaster Rifle costs 4.4 times as much as a Sunblaster

In Scenario 2, each Starblaster Rifle costs 2.5 times as much as a Sunblaster

Clearly, I think, we 're much more likely to pick the Starblasters as a standard weapon in Scenario 2, as it's more likely that they're 2.5 times or more as valuable than they are likely to be 4.4 or more times as valuable (although even at that exchange rate, it could still be worth it, depending on relative combat performance). As the per turn Foundry outputs shrinks, the Starblaster becomes relatively more attractive.

These numbers are purely for illustrative purposes. For the avoidance of doubt they are not assertions of what will happen.

The biggest limit there is that it takes significantly more time and effort to ramp up production of Special Resources than it does equipment in general. They need very high end, very specialized equipment and equally rare and specialized skillsets that take years to train in---it's like the difference between training people to work in a car garage, and training a nuclear reactor operator. Or the difference between a truck driver and an Astronaut.
Your recruiting pool is small to even start, in high demand for at least four other critical fields, and the infrastructure for training them has limited throughput. Whereas even High Technology, for the most part, is fairly easy to ramp up.

Is that fully reflected in the hit to the next turn's production of that exotic resource, or are you saying might we hit a hard or soft cap where we can't build any more of an exotic production facility, as that really changes things?

If there is a cap, hard or soft, then I wonder if we could expand our recruiting pool to other worlds.
 
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Do we have a reason to think that we will be producing ships and strike craft fast enough to need to make this choice anytime soon? Our construction throughput is extremely limited; building the numbers of fighters being thrown around seems like it would be impossible on our current rate.

It feels to me like the choice between PD and strike craft psyscope allocation is illusory, and what will actually happen if we strip out our PD/CIWS is that the psyscopes sit around for decades entirely unused waiting for us to have enough EP to build the fighters that we plan to put them on.

And using our psyscopes on something slightly suboptimal is far, far better than not using them at all.
Considering the fact that we can pump out a trio of escorts which would each cost thousands of regular EP for 3 Bonesinger actions (reminder that just the escort scale las-cannon PD grid is 60 Las-cannons or 20*60=1200EP and that Naval EP is EP/100 and there are a couple more things that total +10NEP we'd be paying for) despite each action normally only yielding 480EP of gear I'd say hangar based fighter production may be done in a similar fashion.

Any big stockpile we get in the near future from refits is going to get eaten up at a soild rate with how demanding re-arming and expanding our forces will get.

Take our Starcrystals for example, we've got a whopping 20k in the bank right now but once we get around to refitting our Combat Brig we'll probably be getting another Mega-Lance for each and those alone are 1k apiece and we've got 16 of those Brigs.

That's 3/5 of our current supply gone just from that. Even with a more conservative approach like what I had proposed where we drop the 6 regular Starlance batteries to save 600 Starcrystals per hull that's still nearly 1/3 of our current Starcrystal reserve gone just for refitting our Battleships.

While we've still got quite a few more Assault Ketches to refit and thus a few more big injections of Starcrystals to look forward to once they're all used up that's the end of that gravy train.

While it isn't as bad right now for Psy-Scopes since even at 2 Fatesevers (8PS) per interceptor we've only got 288 to refit or a total of 1152PS at 72PS a hangar once we get a good multihangar light carrier design up and running we'll probably be fielding at least as many of them as we are battleships (since any serious fleet we send out is going to have at least one battleship) which would more double that Psy-Scope demand.

That +360 Psy-Scopes per Brig (5760PS total) is going to start looking a bit thin once that happens which was why I was advocating for strikecraft rather than PD so that we can spread that Fatesever love around a bit more.

While you could argue that we'd also be getting a bunch of Psy-Scopes back from all the Fatesheer CIWB's that our Battle Carracks have getting replaced since the Fatetwisters they're armed with kinda make them redundant but the Fatesheer CIWB is only 64PS (3456PS over 54 ships) since 150PS of its 214PS cost comes from its 3 Fatetwisters which are 50PS apiece.

That isn't to say we're getting zero surplus, we're still getting a ton (we'll probably have several thousand SC and over 1k PS leftover depending on how ham we go in using them) but if we don't invest in expanding exotic resource production or build a ton of gear and vehicle foundries our expenditure will become unsustainable.
 
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I assumed we'd want to refit all of our current strikecraft first before starting on replacements, especially considering how expensive they are to produce.

Strikecraft are vehicles. Can we even refit vehicles? Or do we have to rebuild new ones from scratch?

Considering the fact that we can pump out a trio of escorts which would each cost thousands of regular EP for a single Bonesinger action (reminder that just the escort scale las-cannon PD grid is 60 Las-cannons or 20*60=1200EP and that Naval EP is EP/100) despite each action normally only yielding 480EP of gear I'd say hangar based fighter production may be done in a similar fashion.

Strike craft are priced in regular EP though and may need to be bought with regular EP as a result....

They're presumably much fiddlier than pieces of warship which are mostly giant bulk pieces of wraithbone, the same complexity/mass ratio as other vehicles.

For the same reason that modern fighter aircraft cost much more/kilo than the aircraft carriers that launch them, and indeed a carrier's airwing can cost multiples of the ship, despite massing so much less (looks at the Royal Navy's Queen Elizabeth class).
 
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Strike craft are priced in regular EP though and may need to be bought with regular EP as a result....

They're presumably much fiddlier than pieces of warship which are mostly giant bulk pieces of wraithbone, the same complexity/mass ratio as other vehicles.
That is true but we'll just have to see how that crunches out once we get to designing a new strikecraft and carrier.

It just seems odd to me since 60 Las-Cannons should still be 60 Las-Cannons of Bonesinger effort regardless of what it's being mounted on.
 
Can we even refit vehicles? Or do we have to rebuild new ones from scratch?
Refitting existing stock can happen, yes; they have to be in your stockpile though (the easiest way to do this is building enough for a Detachment or two, swapping their equipment with a Steward action, and then refitting the returned bikes and repeating the process.)
Came up before; we can refit vehicles sitting around in stock. In what circumstances it's worth it...
 
Is that fully reflected in the hit to the next turn's production of that exotic resource.
Pretty much yes. That's representing having to take trained personnel off the line for cadre, because of how limited access to those skillsets are, and the reduced output from practical training being done with existant equipment. You do have a few billion people to recruit from even before you start looking outside your own Craftworld, after all, and "one in a million" still represents whole cities worth of people in absolute terms at that kind of scale.
 
That is true but we'll just have to see how that crunches out once we get to designing a new strikecraft and carrier.

It just seems odd to me since 60 Las-Cannons should still be 60 Las-Cannons of Bonesinger effort regardless of what it's being mounted on.

That's true. But perhaps this is part of the system it's best not to prod at too closely at, otherwise we might be tempted to do things like build ships that are nothing but, say, Point-Singularity Projector Point Defences, and then recycle them onto vehicles...

Pretty much yes. That's representing having to take trained personnel off the line for cadre, because of how limited access to those skillsets are, and the reduced output from practical training being done with existant equipment. You do have a few billion people to recruit from even before you start looking outside your own Craftworld, after all, and "one in a million" still represents whole cities worth of people in absolute terms at that kind of scale.

Good to know, thanks. The basic logic I outlined above would hopefully still make sense, in terms of pairing expansion of out Starcrystal Farms along side Foundries using Starcrystals. It just depends on the various ratios, for whether it's worth it.
 
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Pretty much yes. That's representing having to take trained personnel off the line for cadre, because of how limited access to those skillsets are, and the reduced output from practical training being done with existant equipment. You do have a few billion people to recruit from even before you start looking outside your own Craftworld, after all, and "one in a million" still represents whole cities worth of people in absolute terms at that kind of scale.

Something to note is that unlikely the canon craftworld eldar, we will likely work out a way to deal with the fertility issues at least in part and get some much-needed population growth. That over time should also help get more people that might fit with operating the exotics production.
 
Of course, you will also have plenty of opportunities before the main meeting and possibly after it to make connections, bring up more minor issues, and engage in politics with various major and minor factions as currently exist.
hmm. neat. will the character we bring get background rolls to establish connections with out us we have the option of following up on post Aeldmoot?
And we are certainly arming the Serpent with exotics.
megalances for certain. maybe even invent a "Plusultralance". that said, those are main weapons. we don't need all exotics on the entire vessel, and we should diversify our weapons on other capitol ships.
 
And yeah, rotating out our damaged hulls for the rationalized ones has been the strategy. New Builds can come once we've gotten our fleet to the point where it won't explode from one bad roll.
 
... We can refit a trio of escorts for a single bonesinger action. Starting construction of new escorts costs 3 BAP each.
indeed. refits are better overall, but new ships take longer, and ultimately we took a small navy. we are gonna need start up building them no later than turn 10 if we want to get to an appropriate Large Craft world Navy size by the end of the second century.
 
Interestingly enough, the destroyer we have that mounts Lascannon PD costs a full turn to make, and doesn't have a batch discount listed.

Even Lascannon PD isn't cheap, it seems.

But any question of using batch discounts to get discount lascannon runs into the fact that we've got limited births for building ships, and I don't think we want to use that capital to discount the costs of PD guns even if the math worked out.
 
indeed. refits are better overall, but new ships take longer, and ultimately we took a small navy. we are gonna need start up building them no later than turn 10 if we want to get to an appropriate Large Craft world Navy size by the end of the second century.

I'm still hopeful that we can go to one of the True Stars and just collect ships with dead crews orbiting the worlds in those systems.

Or find a dead craftworld and recover its fleet from where they sit in dock.

That would be a lot quicker than building everything from scratch.

If we can do that, then we'll be staying in the refit game for a long time.

We're Space Elf Mad Max (in Space). This is an immediately post-apocalyptic settting. Genre convention is all about salvaging and repurposing wreckage from before civilization fell.
 
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Honestly if we wanted to enhance our needlers we could add toxins to the shards so that even if you survive getting a face full of needles, you still gotta deal with the psychic toxins in your body, ensuring you die.

Unlike the future Drukhari ours wont be painless so much as incredibly lethal.
 
The real issue with old designs is that they're scuffed by intent. Not rationalized for mass production. So they're produced one at a time regardless of hull size and cost.
 
Honestly if we wanted to enhance our needlers we could add toxins to the shards so that even if you survive getting a face full of needles, you still gotta deal with the psychic toxins in your body, ensuring you die.

Unlike the future Drukhari ours wont be painless so much as incredibly lethal.

The problem is that we've inherited the knowledge of how to automate the manifestation of wraithbone spikes from nowehere. I doubt we know how to manifest poison from nowhere, and I doubt we want to try something radical to change that like inventing God-Tech of Shaimesh, Lord of Poisons, to change that. The Dark Eldar at least believe the Cosmic Serpent's evil brother survived the Fall and so is worthy of worship as one of the Dark Muses
 
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