The ship for closed doors cultivation has sailed. Oh well, @PrimalShadow 's plan is fine too.
[x] Plan Breakthrough: Start!
[x] Plan Breakthrough: Start!
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Forge of Destiny(Xianxia Quest)
- Thread starter yrsillar
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- Original Fantasy
Arkeus
Crazy cat guy
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- France
It is because it does nothing that is particularly urgent and is about purposefully pushing breakthrough back 1 week at no discernable gain in order to have a specific actions that does not relate to breakthrough 1 week early (Favor).
Your plan doesn't increase probability of breakthrough next week (in fact it brings it down), it doesn't have a single action that take care of necessary things before breakthrough or which makes post-breakthrough easier, and the only minor that arguably is important that other plans don't have is Double Cai, but your plan also doesn't have important minors (Suyin, Moonbox) that are necessary for breakthrough.
It's basically "I consider it more important to do Fu Xiang heist now than to breakthrough now".
Considering that pushing back breakthrough by one week means not getting EPC5 one more week, as well as SCS6/FVM6, and that we are entering crunch time, well...
Arkeus
Crazy cat guy
- Location
- France
33 we were just traumatised by Sun Liling and the action to talk to Meizhen about it was more important than Zeqing this week. We also had our first meeting with Cai Rexiang that week.
35 we had Cai being on lockdown, and if we hadn't gotten the contingencies we might have died this week. Pretty important.
36 we knew Meizhen was trying to kill YR this week, and we hadn't had a direct minor with Xiulan alone since week 31.
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Once we get to green it's fine to ease into bronze, in my opinion. The most urgent thing to cultivate is EPC. Eight Phase Ceremony is difficult to accelerate, has always given us good stuff in the past, and offers the tantalizing possibility of free green stones. We have plenty of other stuff to cultivate such that not being able to immediately hit SCS won't hurt much. Limiting our breakthrough efforts to two actions a week (breakthrough + breakthrough/recover) would let us break through in a reasonable time frame without choking our actions too badly.
Personally, if we do break through then my preference would be to use a green stone next week and go heavy cultivation/training, just to see what it does and to further power through EPC. That plan would be somewhat contingent on being able to buy some drugs that give bonus rolls, though.
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Counter argument: a lot of these minors involve Ling Qi taking the initiative to interact with someone/achieve some goal.
It's been a lot rarer for someone to actually call us out and ask for our time, and most of the times it's happened that I can remember it's been important. The one exception I can think of is the GG ambush for Ji Rong, though it could be argued that that helped drive Sun to the negotiating table that much earlier.
Wiggin42
Wage Slave
...Please excuse my inability to read. Clearly I'm not paying enough attention.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
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I'm not going to challenge the first sentence/point, that's Alectai's job I think. I will however counter the second. Can you show me the math which says it brings it down? I would assume since these are independent rolls, and dice don't remember things, that it does not affect the probability at all of next week, unless it succeeds. In which case it increases the probability on week 38 that we get through to green and bronze because we will have a success sitting there. Not sure how to address the necessary things and the post breakthrough. As to the minors I think its entirely subjective, especially with regards to Suyin. I judge that one as being immaterial when it comes to if we do it in yellow, or green. As for the puzzle box I don't know how likely it is to effect breakthrough. The last direct gift from Xin I remember had both pills and the jade slip which gave us FVM so I figure it could have either pills or arts, or both. I do not think they will affect breakthrough as that has only come from one, non-Empire source so far and involved actual life and death combat which I think of the box as neither.
SCS 6 will have to wait for week 39 as far as I can tell with both plans. FVM 6, it depends on how well we do.
Yes, but whatever is in the music box might be that art, and it is reckless to get something from the archive before we are done with the music box. And it isn't like we have a dearth of other things to train, either.
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I know? I didn't mean to give the impression that it was a priority, just that the option was there and as a potential reason for why a mission was felt to be necessary.
I'm perfectly fine with waiting until after we're Green/Bronze and have opened the box to see what's inside before deciding if we should go for the archives for the spiritual buff art.
Being Green also lets us overflow Bronze breakthrough recovery into Spiritual next week, which saves one or two fractions of an action. We can only specify one overflow target per week so this becomes more efficient than starting at Yellow and overflowing into qi for the entire week. Only one target is also why we can't fail both then pick the lowest to cultivate and overflow the other to full. This is all solved by being Green after this week.
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Alright. I was mostly arguing against, as you say, where the argument originally came from, ie PrimalShadow's plan. I do agree getting terms right is important because we don't want confusion; that's why I made my post, because it's important that people know that PrimalShadow's plan has the same chance of reaching green as doing 5 breakthrough attempts.
First of all, jacobk has a good point above about training EPC being rather important. Secondly, while it's true that we'll have to use actions towards breaking through to Bronze week 38 if Start! wins week, it's likely that we'll have to use actions towards breaking through to bronze week 39 if Last Stop wins. It all gets complicated depending on when we get successes and how many actions are taken, of course, but the basic idea is that Start! devotes more actions towards breaking through now, and as such will likely break through on both quicker than Last Stop.
As for SCS, remember that we need to open a leg meridian to start cultivating SCS 6 as well. We don't want to spend any actions on meridians until we get at least Green for the +5 dice. Although also admittedly we're likely to get auto-successes towards meridians when we get Bronze, so we'll probably not open that meridian until we have Bronze in any case.
While we were told that TRF eventually gets a metal meridian, we were never told it was the spine meridian used by TRF 4 (as far as I'm aware anyway). It could easily be the heart meridian needed for TRF 6.
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Anyone else who was voting for [] Give the dude a chance it's probably time to jump on whichever plan you dislike least.
I feel like you're doing a lot of post facto justification.
Week 33 I certainly didn't realise just how traumatised Ling Qi had been by Liling until we actually took the action. I also would probably have thought that we wouldn't get much out of a singe Cai minor.
35 - Cai would have been the one we would still have in closed door. We didn't know we would need the escape contingencies at a specific time and they could have been gotten the week after. Plus green might have let us see through the ruse sooner and dodge or tank the trap.
36. No we didn't know. I just looked through the pages immedietly after week 35 finished. We were concerned about her eating into her cultivation, but that could easily have been put off for a single week, and Xiulan would have understood if we went into closed door. We only found out once we confronted her she was going to attack his base that night.
I assumed you meant that if we were ready for breakthrough that week what would I feel could be sacrificed.
I feel like you're doing a lot of post facto justification.
Week 33 I certainly didn't realise just how traumatised Ling Qi had been by Liling until we actually took the action. I also would probably have thought that we wouldn't get much out of a singe Cai minor.
35 - Cai would have been the one we would still have in closed door. We didn't know we would need the escape contingencies at a specific time and they could have been gotten the week after. Plus green might have let us see through the ruse sooner and dodge or tank the trap.
36. No we didn't know. I just looked through the pages immedietly after week 35 finished. We were concerned about her eating into her cultivation, but that could easily have been put off for a single week, and Xiulan would have understood if we went into closed door. We only found out once we confronted her she was going to attack his base that night.
Once we have broken through to Green, can someone tell me what the real urgency of breaking through to Bronze is? I mean, we will absolutely want to keep working on it, but do we want to rush it or is it okay for the breakthrough to stretch out for a couple of weeks?
As far as I can see, here are the benefits that a Bronze Breakthrough will bring:
As far as I can see, here are the benefits that a Bronze Breakthrough will bring:
- Increased combat abilities,
- Bonus to meridian-opening,
- Ability to cultivate Physical, SCS, and TRF.
The Sandman
So Zetta Slowpoke
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Eh, screw it. May as well vote for the better of the front-running plans.
[x] Plan Breakthrough: Start!
-[x] Use from Inventory: Blood of Father Sky, Milk of Mother Earth, 3RSS, 1YSS
-[x] Purchase and Use : 3RSS, 1YSS, Steady Growth Pill (6 RSS) Sturdy Oak Pill (18 RSS), conditional pills listed below (20 RSS either way); Total: 57 RSS
--[x] If cultivating spiritual: Flowing River Pills (6RSS), Soaring Spirits Pill (6RSS), Soul Concentrating Elixir (8 RSS)
--[x] if cultivating physical: White Hart Elixir (6RSS), Bear's Heartsblood Elixir (10 RSS), Bear's Marrow Elixir (4 RSS)
-[x] Other Purchases: replace the Escape Talisman and anti-scry Talisman we used
-[x] Breakthrough Priorities: Prioritize breaking through Green. In case of failure, wait until we've tried to recover; then continue. In case we can't proceed further towards Green due to either failure or success, start breaking through towards Bronze.
-[x] (MAJOR) Attempt Breakthrough
-[x] (MAJOR) Attempt Breakthrough x2
-[x] (MAJOR) Attempt Breakthrough x3
-[x] (MAJOR) Attempt Breakthrough x4
-[x] Train at the vent with Su Ling
--[x] (MAJOR) Cultivate Spiritual / Physical, as needed to recover if we fail a breakthrough attempt. Cultivate Spiritual if we succeed in all breakthrough attempts.
--[x] (attached minor) Work to unlock the Puzzle Box
--[x] (attached minor) Work on formations with Li Suyin, with the Vault Warriors mastered, you can delve more deeply into the Pale Manual
-[x] (minor) Cai Renxiang has something important to announce. It seems you will need to attend a council meeting
-[x] (minor) Meizhen is right... the two of you should probably talk, it seems there is still a lot you don't know about each other
-[x] (minor) Zeqing has been quite busy, but you received a message inviting you to meet her... at her home?
[x] Plan Breakthrough: Start!
-[x] Use from Inventory: Blood of Father Sky, Milk of Mother Earth, 3RSS, 1YSS
-[x] Purchase and Use : 3RSS, 1YSS, Steady Growth Pill (6 RSS) Sturdy Oak Pill (18 RSS), conditional pills listed below (20 RSS either way); Total: 57 RSS
--[x] If cultivating spiritual: Flowing River Pills (6RSS), Soaring Spirits Pill (6RSS), Soul Concentrating Elixir (8 RSS)
--[x] if cultivating physical: White Hart Elixir (6RSS), Bear's Heartsblood Elixir (10 RSS), Bear's Marrow Elixir (4 RSS)
-[x] Other Purchases: replace the Escape Talisman and anti-scry Talisman we used
-[x] Breakthrough Priorities: Prioritize breaking through Green. In case of failure, wait until we've tried to recover; then continue. In case we can't proceed further towards Green due to either failure or success, start breaking through towards Bronze.
-[x] (MAJOR) Attempt Breakthrough
-[x] (MAJOR) Attempt Breakthrough x2
-[x] (MAJOR) Attempt Breakthrough x3
-[x] (MAJOR) Attempt Breakthrough x4
-[x] Train at the vent with Su Ling
--[x] (MAJOR) Cultivate Spiritual / Physical, as needed to recover if we fail a breakthrough attempt. Cultivate Spiritual if we succeed in all breakthrough attempts.
--[x] (attached minor) Work to unlock the Puzzle Box
--[x] (attached minor) Work on formations with Li Suyin, with the Vault Warriors mastered, you can delve more deeply into the Pale Manual
-[x] (minor) Cai Renxiang has something important to announce. It seems you will need to attend a council meeting
-[x] (minor) Meizhen is right... the two of you should probably talk, it seems there is still a lot you don't know about each other
-[x] (minor) Zeqing has been quite busy, but you received a message inviting you to meet her... at her home?
I mean, the two latter items are actually important, since our meridian-opening capabilities are starting to degrade and our arts at Green are going to have new meridians. And both SCS and TRF we'll want to push 1 or even 2 levels by tournament, so the more weeks to let us do that the better.
... Are you having weird expectation on things again? Because really even a single on of the things you listed is stuff we would want asap. So yes we want bronze as soon as we can. No nothing else we can do at the point when we hit green will give us as much gain as this. Pushing it out over several weeks is just bad planning when some of our best arts and so much gain is gated behind it.
Oh, totally. But those only really get important once we start investing heavily in our arts, and that is going to take a bit of time.
Basically, I'm thinking about it this way. By the time we break through, we will have a "queue" of actions that need to get done:
- Dragon diplomacy
- Favors
- Wolf Hunting
- EPC Cultivation every week
- FVM Cultivation every other week if we can train with Zuqing
Arkeus
Crazy cat guy
- Location
- France
In the last 4 weeks, we had 2 minors that were people asking us things: Gan Guangli and Xiulan. They are not rare... and it doesn't matter if it's the case or not as long as they are very, very important. And we had at least 2 of those every weeks.
PS's plan will have 5 breakthrough actions this week with the drugs, so the only result where we don't literally try to breakthrough 5 time is if we are Green. Alectai's plan increase our odds of getting to green next week than if we do no breakthrough attemp this week, but that's all. it doesn't increase our odds of getting to bronze in an appreciable manner, especially if we don't do 6 breakthrough actions next week.
None of those are post facto justification.
33. You might have no realised it, but that doesn't mean she wasn't thought of as traumatised... and I disagree, for example, that the Zeqing action is necessarily more important than any random minor like you would for that one I guess. The Cai minor was one that was spearheaded by 40 different people at the time. It was nonegotionable.
35. Contingencies were something we had put off, and something we knew was important. Moreso than Zeqing this week.
36. We did know Meizhen was hunting YR, and we knew she was a Bai. We might not be certain she was going to kill him, but it was assumed it was something of that nature.
Like, you know, we can't be certain Zeqing doesn't just want to apologise to us for being busy last week.
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In practice I wouldn't be that fussed anyway. If we're only working on 1 breakthrough, then we don't really want to be spending more than 3 actions on it - and that's only if we're starting the week at peak. e.g. going Breakthrough -> recover -> Breakthrough is fine, but Recover -> Breakthrough -> Recover isn't.
So, eh, once we hit green we'll probably just be spending 2 to 3 actions on bronze anyway. We'll have room for things.
I think there are a couple of aspects within the Empire's culture.
Firstly I suspect there's a certain amount of face to be lost if you don't follow one breakthrough with another quickly. We know that breaking through both aspects in the same period gives you a massive rep boost from when Ji Rong did it (part of the reason I want to do it is the rep boost).
Secondly, If you are unbalanced for a long time (probably more on the order of months though) there may also be the issue of looking like a barbarian. Literally. The emerald seas are right next to the cloud tribes, who tend to be intentionally lopsided in their cultivation. It would be a blow to your face.
Thirdly there is the issue of 'punching down'. The empire is full of people who wouldn't be seen dead punching down directly due to loss of face it would cause, but who would see no problems in challenging someone who was now 'in the same realm as them' despite the fact that's only half true and they have a massive advantage of having been yellow/green/cyan etc for ages and have all their arts trained up. So avoiding being seen in a mismatched state for too long, or in public at all is also a safety measure.
Going closed door for Bronze would mostly be about looking badass. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
Getting to Bronze by week 42 or so would let us comfortably get SCS + TRF leveled up by tournament time and get our meridians sorted out.
If we actually want to try to win the tournament our best gamble would be to rush to Green 2 and EPC 5. If green stones give a lot of dice and EPC 5 gives us free greens we can then fly through our arts with drug-intensive double green stone cultivation weeks. If that turns out to be viable then Bronze could probably wait a little longer.