Forge of Destiny(Xianxia Quest)

Alectai · Jan 10, 2018

Floom said:
I hate to say it, but I think the reason why Gu supporters don't have a platform is because they don't have support. The biggest issue with the Gu is the marriage condition, which is a deal breaker for many, including myself.

We have gotten an offer from the sect, if a vague one at best. Remember Jiao mentioning how we might become his apprentice during Zhou's trial?

Yeah, but he's never so much as hinted as to what would be required to achieve that, even when we got some lessons from him. It smacks more that Xin browbeat him into giving us a leg up, and he did it in the most passive aggressive way he could (Gave us an option for a bye--while also outright announcing we got something good to all of our potential rivals)

Ayashi · Jan 10, 2018

Thor's Twin said:
Oh, he does have a weakness. He is mainly focusing on physical defense and physical offense. His spiritual defense is weak enough that the musical Ma Twin was able to tag him with her debuff. Admittedly that is after Encircling winds and mult-attacker penalties, but spiritual defense and offense is certainly his weakest aspect.

Not really, rolls shows Ji Rong had 25 dice for physical defense and 24 dice for spiritual defense.
It does feel like there's a lot of handwaving in opponents builds, whereas Ling Qi even with her somewhat ridiculous luck in finding good Arts, has glaring weaknesses and inconsitances in her build... even though she is working much harder at it that mostly everyone else.

tehspooniestbard · Jan 10, 2018

[X] Plan: Last stop before Breakthrough Week 2.0

All the minors I think are important, and I definitely support getting the favors out of the way before breakthrough now that we have our tools.

KazKhan · Jan 10, 2018

[X] Plan: Last stop before Breakthrough Week 2.0

Andelevion · Jan 10, 2018

Seeing all this commotion........about Gu Tai.................makes me........................twitchy with potential schaudenfreude

....I wonder what would happen i started stockpiling some noncommission art points and hold them hostage in exchange for when we take a Gu Tai turn. There's precedent for this kind of extortion, ie. my precedent~

And my big fat fetish for unchampioned characters *cough Han Jian cough*

Actually, you can probably put that as a for certain thing. Well now! I wonder how many points will it take.....

[X] Plan: Give the dude a chance

:3c

Floom · Jan 10, 2018

Alectai said:
Yeah, but he's never so much as hinted as to what would be required to achieve that, even when we got some lessons from him.

So does that mean the offer should be discounted as an option to be seriously considered? And keep in mind, he might very well extend the offer when we hit Inner Sect. Remember, our service doesn't actually start until the end of our second year at the sect, so it's not like he doesn't have time to watch. Matter of fact, I would not be surprised if the Ministries/the Sect extend their offers once we make Inner Sect, which means we could lock them out if we accept Cai's offer right after breakthrough.

Yet again, why I want to at least put off Cai's offer till later.

Alectai · Jan 10, 2018

Floom said:
So does that mean the offer should be discounted as an option to be seriously considered? And keep in mind, he might very well extend the offer when we hit Inner Sect. Remember, our service doesn't actually start until the end of our second year at the sect, so it's not like he doesn't have time to watch. Matter of fact, I would not be surprised if the Ministries/the Sect extend their offers once we make Inner Sect, which means we could lock them out if we accept Cai's offer right after breakthrough.

Yet again, why I want to at least put off Cai's offer till later.

To be fair, being tied to one power or another doesn't mean we're not a member of the Sect--One of Shenhua's apprentices after all was explicitly called a Core Member, and I have little doubt that she's far more tyrannical with the time of her subordinates than Renxiang's.

It just means that instead of doing our service in the Sect's armed forces, we do it in Renxiang's when she begins her real world empire building.

mc2rpg · Jan 10, 2018

CircleTheSkies said:
Err... I don't think I'd vote for a third level art any time soon. Ling Qi's got a number of arts to work on (in approximately this order):
- Eight Phase Ceremony
- Forgotten Vale Melody
- Argent Mirror
- Sable Crescent Step
- Thousand Ring Fortress
- Argent Current
- Abyssal Exhalation
- Argent Storm

She might also get an art from the puzzle box (who knows what's in there?) or come across another suitable art while cultivating the above. I'd rate getting a new art, even one from the top floor, maybe above Argent Current, above. FVM, SCS and TRF all have at least two levels to go in Green (AE probably does too). That's plenty of high-level arts to work on.

Getting another art is an instant disqualifier for me for any plan in the coming weeks, to be honest.

I would certainly rate an FSA+ art as above the argent arts. We know that successor arts tend to be front loaded with the good stuff and weaker later on, so getting something that is front loaded with benefits to our heaviest hitting art is just common sense before we have a big tournament battle.

Yun · Jan 10, 2018

Ayashi said:
The thing will remain until the end of the year, a few more weeks is nothing.
Heck, fluff-wise it's acctually benefic to wait for people to have completed more of their project before we crash and burn their things: they'll have less time to redo it.

You're presuming they won't upgrade their formation by the time of the examination, and well they'll already have 6+ weeks once Ling Qi is finished with her breakthrough. This is all for once auto success on a tests that were explicitly mentioned to be easier than the ones Ling Qi made with breaking into YR's hideout.

CircleTheSkies · Jan 10, 2018

Ayashi said:
The thing will remain until the end of the year, a few more weeks is nothing.
Heck, fluff-wise it's acctually benefic to wait for people to have completed more of their project before we crash and burn their things: they'll have less time to redo it.

Ling Qi doesn't actually care very much if they have enough time to recover or not though. On the other hand, she would care if defenses got upgraded as the tournament got closer (and perhaps others' attempted sabotage become discussed among the production-track students).

tricholysis said:
See, this is what I mean. A bunch of vocal people are already decided even before learning much about the other option and they preemptively and adamantly deny Gu supporters a platform to convince would-be undecideds. Does that seem like a fair vote?

Ummm... why does it need to be a "fair vote"? For that matter, why wouldn't it be a fair vote? People make their judgments at various stages in the process of learning about an option. There's been the ability to put Gu minor actions in the plans for a while now.

Alectai said:
To be fair, being tied to one power or another doesn't mean we're not a member of the Sect--One of Shenhua's apprentices after all was explicitly called a Core Member, and I have little doubt that she's far more tyrannical with the time of her subordinates than Renxiang's.

It just means that instead of doing our service in the Sect's armed forces, we do it in Renxiang's when she begins her real world empire building.

That ones of the things that's a bit of a question mark - what does Renxiang's offer mean for Ling Qi's potential future affiliations? While I realize that yrsillar is trying to keep Ling Qi's ignorance as a feature in the decision-making (at least I think so), the lack of relevant information is something that rather bugs me quite a bit.

Ayashi · Jan 10, 2018

One of the main atraits of CRX's offer is actually how soon it starts.
Logically that offer will start paying about as soon as we take it, meaning a significant resource avantage towards the Tournament, let alone the whole 2nd year in Inner Sect. Whereas Gu, or hypothetical Ministry/Sect route gives fuckall for years to come.

Floom · Jan 10, 2018

Alectai said:
To be fair, being tied to one power or another doesn't mean we're not a member of the Sect--One of Shenhua's apprentices after all was explicitly called a Core Member, and I have little doubt that she's far more tyrannical with the time of her subordinates than Renxiang's.

It just means that instead of doing our service in the Sect's armed forces, we do it in Renxiang's when she begins her real world empire building.

Yes. But being a personal retainer to a provincial Heir will limit our opportunity to interact with the sect. And unlike the Sect, which we can leave to take up other offers, Cai's offer is permanent.

And let's not forget that as a retainer, it will be our duty to start a noble estate, and presumably marry a husband Cai assigns to us/approves of, and start a clan.

Oh wait, that's not CRX's duty. That's Shenhua's duty.

Think about that. We will be bound to Shenhua's authority as a vassal of the Cai.

Peter87 · Jan 10, 2018

yrsillar said:
Ling Qi looked down and sighed. She didn't doubt that her friend could get away with an excuse like that. The Bai were on the outs with the imperial court, but in the end the Sect wouldn't risk giving insult to a founding house over someone like Yan Renshu. The more she learned about imperial politics, the less she liked them

I think that this is third time recently we were told that Ling Qi don't like politics.
Each time I'm more inclined to reject Cai offer.

yrsillar said:
At the same moment, as Ling Qi rematerialized she found her voice. "Meizhen, that isn't Yan Renshu!"

She caught a single incredulous look from her friend before she focused her attention back on the false Renshu.

And now I'm impressed

CircleTheSkies · Jan 10, 2018

Ayashi said:
One of the main atraits of CRX's offer is actually how soon it starts.
Logically that offer will start paying about as soon as we take it, meaning a significant resource avantage towards the Tournament, let alone the whole 2nd year in Inner Sect. Whereas Gu, or hypothetical Ministry/Sect route gives fuckall for years to come.

... Not necessarily. And, if so, perhaps not to the extent you're imagining it.

Cai Renxiang might not have much in the way of special resources to offer - or might feel that spending resources she gets from her 'taxes' on what is ultimately a personal matter (a new retainer) is inappropriate.

Erebeal · Jan 10, 2018

TotallyNotEvil said:
I forgot to comment about this, but something @Arkeus brought up worries me: is Ji Rong just going to get his progress hand waved into "surely he did it"? Because when we fought, he seemed to ore or less have "level-appropriate dice" in everything.

Granted, building a system from scratch makes that sort of needed, but for someone that might be a rival, it strikes me as troublesome that he seems to have no real weaknesses? Ling Qi with oodles of defense arts couldn't match some of his defensive numbers IIRC.

I'm not 100% sure this is true.

We have, when fully buffed in Low-Light: Dexterity 6 + Dodge 6 + Passives 6 (TRF 4, AS 2, ) + Equip 4 (Gown 2, Gown 2, ) + Buffs 15 (Crescent's Grace 6, Deepwood Vitality 3, Ten Ring Defense 3, Rumbling Squall 3, ) + Formless Shade 3 = 40.

Now, being more comparable to what we saw from Ji Rong is first turn:
Physical def: Dexterity 6 + Dodge 6 + Passives 6 (TRF 4, AS 2, ) + Equip 4 (Gown 2, Gown 2, ) + Buffs 6 (Crescent's Grace 6 ) + Crescent's Grace 3 = 31
Spiritual def: Resolve 4 + Resiliance 5 + Passives 4 (AE 4, ) + Equip 4 (Gown 2, Gown 2, ) + Buffs 6 (Crescent's Grace 6, ) + Crescent's Grace 3 = 26

With Mist providing -3 to enemy attack (single target), effectively putting us at 34/29 on most things.

Ji Rong appears to be at ~28-30? (depends on the size of the surprise penalty) physical def on the first turn, and 1 less spiritual. He probably has slightly higher physical attack. Now, we have a) tons of support that he doesn't have, b) all that stealth utility, c) a really expensive spirit, d) a wide range of arts, and e) some playing with formations.

Attack-wise we have: Dexterity 6 + Archery 5 + Passives 11 (FZ 5, FSA 3, AC 3, ) + Equip 4 (Bow 2, Pin 2, ) + Buffs 0 () + Luminescent Star 6 = 32 for archery,
Manipulation 5 + Expression 6 + Passives 5 (FVM 2, AC 3, ) + Equip 6 (Flute 2, Pin 2, Zhengui 2, ) + Buffs 0 () + Scalding Stream 6 = 28 for flute,
Manipulation 5 + Expression 6 + Passives 0 () + Equip 8 (Flute 2, Flute 2, Pin 2, Zhengui 2, ) + Buffs 0 () + Mist of the Vale 2 = 21 for FVM.

Basically, I think we're actually about as strong as him 1 on 1, but are much more useful in a group and have more utility and a spirit. Overall, we're stronger, but he has a focused build with that makes him good at solo face-punching.

Floom · Jan 10, 2018

Ayashi said:
One of the main atraits of CRX's offer is actually how soon it starts.
Logically that offer will start paying about as soon as we take it, meaning a significant resource avantage towards the Tournament, let alone the whole 2nd year in Inner Sect. Whereas Gu, or hypothetical Ministry/Sect route gives fuckall for years to come.

I hate to be sassy, but there is no evidence to support the notion that the Sect/Ministry route will give "fuckall for years to come".

We are kinda dealing with a severe lack of information here.

Israyum · Jan 10, 2018

[X] Plan: Last stop before Breakthrough Week 2.0
Not too sure about the favors yet but still the best plan in my opinion.

Alectai · Jan 10, 2018

Peter87 said:
I think that this is third time recently we were told that Ling Qi don't like politics.
Each time I'm more inclined to reject Cai offer.

And now I'm impre

Politics are unavoidable unless we're going to become a hobo, and that's boring given how interesting this setting is.

Being Cai Renxiang's left (or right) hand means that she can be our ablative armor for politics.

Floom · Jan 10, 2018

Alectai said:
Politics are unavoidable unless we're going to become a hobo, and that's boring given how interesting this setting is.

Being Cai Renxiang's left (or right) hand means that she can be our ablative armor for politics.

But we would be thrown directly into a political storm, given the existing tensions in the Empire's nobility and the Cai's rather exceptional position in politics.

Thor's Twin · Jan 10, 2018

[X] Plan Blockade, Barriers, Breakthrough
-[X] Resources
--[X] Used: Milk of Mother Earth; Blood of Father Sky; 3 RSS; 1 YSS
--[X] Bought and Used: 1st level Earth and Fire pills (4 RSS); Gushing Spring Pill (2 RSS); Flowing Rivers Pill (6 RSS); 2nd Level Earth and Fire Pills (12 RSS); Steady Growth Pill (8 RSS); Sturdy Oak Pill (18 RSS)
--[X] Total: Milk of Mother Earth; Blood of Father Sky; 1 YSS; 53 RSS
--[X] EPC Successes: Abyssal Exhalation
-[X] Majors
--[X] Attempt Breakthrough
---[X] Green
--[X] Attempt Breakthrough
---[X] Green
--[X] Attempt Breakthrough
---[X] Green
--[X] Explore and Train with Golden Fields
---[X] Argent Current
---[X] Zhengui is up and around again and didn't get to do much on the raid. Go hunting with him.
--[X] Cultivate on your own
---[X] Abyssal Exhalation
---[X] Work to unlock the Puzzle Box
-[X] Minors
--[X] Cai Renxiang has something important to announce. It seems you will need to attend a council meeting
--[X] Zeqing has been quite busy, but you received a message inviting you to meet her... at her home?
--[X] Meizhen is right... the two of you should probably talk, it seems there is still a lot you don't know about each other

I don't like any of the other plans, so here is my attempt at a breakthrough plan. This has us going full bore into getting Green, with 4 pseudo attempts (Milk of Mother Earth Pill). Should we lose cultivation in spiritual because of it, then AE and AC cultivation should help to top us back up to where we can attempt it again next week.

One minor for every character, which means only the one mandatory Cai minor. Then we have Zeqing to see what she has for us as this is an intriguing offer. Next is the Meizhen talk. We need to talk to her and clear the air between us. Puzzle box because it probably has something in it that will be helpful to us and then Zhengui so that we can start getting him ready to either train with or begin doing his own thing as soon as possible.

Erebeal · Jan 10, 2018

mc2rpg said:
I would certainly rate an FSA+ art as above the argent arts. We know that successor arts tend to be front loaded with the good stuff and weaker later on, so getting something that is front loaded with benefits to our heaviest hitting art is just common sense before we have a big tournament battle.

Not to say that upgrading FSA is a bad idea (because god, just switching it to wind/water would make it so much better in the short term), but this is not true. Remember that we skipped straight to FZ2. We got good upgrades there because we jumped our art up 2 levels.

Floom · Jan 10, 2018

[X] Plan Blockade, Barriers, Breakthrough

Looks good to me

jacobk · Jan 10, 2018

[X] Plan: Give the dude a chance

I'll admit I've soured on CRX largely for the OOC reason that she's a boring character whose closest follower is a boring character. The expies in general are a cut below the OCs in the story, in my opinion, and CRX is my least favorite of the expies.

In character, there are a couple of reasons I think Ling Qi would be happier with the Gu offer or a Gu-like offer:

Cai Renxiang = Close Supervision

Everybody in the Empire has a boss. From the perspective of choosing a good boss or a bad boss, CRX is more on the good boss side of things. On the dimension of a close boss or a distant boss, she's very close.

With the Gu offer our boss would be the head of the Gu family. He's a busy guy with a lot of other interests. As long as we met our annual goals in terms of land clearing and tribute he would have no inclination to stick his nose into what we're doing.

The mountains are high and the emperor is far away.

CRX would be nearby and would take a close personal interest in what we're doing. She'd be assigning us tasks from time to time. Even when we're out on her own, her role model is her mother who makes it a point of knowing everything that her subordinates are doing all the time. CRX doesn't look to be a complete micromanager, but I would expect her to be fairly thorough in making sure we're doing things the right way according to the Cai manual. She knows she's being judged by her mother, after all. When your boss's well-being depends on how well you do your job they are naturally going to ride you more than they would if your failure doesn't affect them much.

Ling Qi values Freedom over Power

Ling Qi would rather be the captain commanding a ship out on the ocean than an admiral riding a desk back at headquarters. The captain draws a smaller salary than the admiral. The captain has to do what the admiral tells him to do. But in terms of day to day tasks, the captain has a lot more freedom.

Everybody has a boss. I think Ling Qi's happiness won't change very much based on how close her boss is to the Emperor; rather, she'll be happier the farther away her immediate boss is from her location.

Yun · Jan 10, 2018

Alectai said:
Politics are unavoidable unless we're going to become a hobo, and that's boring given how interesting this setting is.

Being Cai Renxiang's left (or right) hand means that she can be our ablative armor for politics.

Technically speaking even going full hobo cultivator still involves politics as the Empire apparently has an organization that keeps tabs on hermits, and wandering cultivators starting trouble, which makes sense as all it takes is say a third realm cultivator going crazy from malevolent spirits for entire villages to vanish, or at least be seriously damaged by them destroying the formations that keep the local spirits out.

zamin · Jan 10, 2018

[X] Plan: Last stop before Breakthrough Week 2.0

Forge of Destiny(Xianxia Quest)

Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion

Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion

Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion

The Watcher in the Dark