I say this because it was the WoG being bandied around back when FZ+ was picked up. That successor arts start strong and end weaker than equivalents, not because of the specific stat gains we saw from FZ+. Getting an element swap to make it even easier to fit in though is just another bonus of picking up at least one rank of FSA+ that I had not thought of. I genuinely think it is one of the most useful cultivation efforts we could make as tournament prep.
Forge of Destiny(Xianxia Quest)
- Thread starter yrsillar
- Start date
- Original Fantasy
- Location
- scrabbling
Theoretically nothing has to be a fair vote. There can be a quest where there's one obviously correct choice every update and the voters take it every time. Who reads that quest, though?
But I do consider it a failure of the QM if an impactful choice is offered but not actually allowed to be a real choice. The design of a quest should be equitable and interesting, and a QM should try especially to make large choices tossups. Otherwise the QM can just go write a story. And players, as contributors to the quest, should also try to allow these interesting choices to occur, even if they have preferred options, and most importantly, they should allow votes to be contestable. A quest that never surprises you or has only expected/first/obvious options win is not a good quest and should just be a story.
Though that's just IMO.
As far as it reflects onto FoD...well, plan votes are certainly squabbles with meaningful choices and options. They're episodic, short-term, and often quantifiable in terms of successes. Which is a possible success of design. Sometimes, such as with the recent raid event, there are also choices and votes that are both contested and meaningful. Which is also a success of design. Other times, such as with the recent raid event, two options are immediately and predictably discardable. That's a failure of design. And long-term votes, such as Ling Qi's career...
I can only call that a failure tentatively, because there is still time for Ling Qi to decide she wants to defer Cai to the end of the year, or for a surprise Gu Tai action to allow it to offer similarly immediate mechanical benefits to Cai. But at the moment, I do call it a failure, because players who treat the quest more like a game than a narrative will prefer Cai automatically, players who still want Ling Qi to suddenly lesbian out will prefer Cai automatically, players squeamish about marriage will prefer Cai automatically...etc. Not to say anything negative about any of those players, but that's a failure of design.
Well, pretty sure overlords don't have formal authority over Ling Qi's personal life except that they would be 'happy'/'unhappy' with her choice.
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Why are you using Milk of Mother Earth? The pills synergise. Using them separately is just inefficient.
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- Location
- North Carolina
Unless we outright leave the Empire (Which would actually be an interesting route to take, given how interesting the world is), we'll have to put up with someone. There is always a higher power, and cultivators are powerful. That's why the Empire gives them privileges and responsibilities to keep them in check.
Cultivator's that don't buy into the system are seen as inherently dangerous to the system as a whole, and are likely treated as such.
A very fitting society, given the genre.
But the Sect's seem to be an interesting development in an otherwise conservative society, and I am curious to see it's function and structure in greater detail.
Or we hers... I mean what I have seen of vassals so far may well support the notion of getting support from your boss but it also makes it pretty clear you are supposed to (pro-) actively support your boss to a significant degree and can easily result in you/us becoming a way to act against our boss without going directly against her or otherwise suffering. Plus, as an close adviser we would almost certainly be involved in politics, at least in those of her court (and our own if we get one) and the one above us.
Eh, writing good politics and plotting is very difficult and while I view our GM as one of the better (quest) writers I have serious doubts that he will be able to write a story that contains a fascinating coming of age story, numerous xianxia adventures, the search for mythical enlightenment as well as an ever expanding cast (and nothing expands a cast quicker than politics) + "realistic" palace, court and empire wide politics that a high position brings with it. That honestly seems a bit too ambitious to me and I don't really see it end well.
(But then I am highly sceptical that this story will ever significantly progress beyond the "sect" stage simply because the (RL) time it will take to get there )
- Location
- The Temple of the Winds
perhaps might might...
Meizhen just shown what's the kind of ressources a player of the leading ducal clan of a region can bring to bear on personal matters. And Meizhen isn't the Bai Clan heir.
- Location
- North Carolina
They do actually. Remember, Cai's offer involves becoming a vassal to the Cai. Which is headed by Shenhua. Who is notorious for being a bit... totalitarian.
Not to mention that it would not be a stretch to say that our marriage will likely be determined by our liege, and that one of our duties as a vassal will be start a Noble Clan.
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I'd say it's an enormous stretch. It doesn't hold historically and CRX has shown plenty of willingness to let us do our own thing, like when we didn't tell her why Yan Renshu had suddenly attacked, and she just accepted our assurances that we knew what we were doing.
Estate management/clan foundation is the core of the Gu offer. Cai has stated that our most important duty is her retainer/court ninja, rather than land management.
It's also the option that lets us hang out with Meizhen, which I like.
I don't want to leave her behind on the other side of the empire. We've gone through a lot and I want to stick together. Friends to the end, you know?
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Khepri14
Thus kindly I scatter...
- Location
- Following the wind
[X] Plan: Give the dude a chance
I'm mostly a reader and not a voter/active person in this quest, but like I said before, if it wasn't for the marriage part, I'd be all over the offer. Still, even with the marriage offer, it's better than being under Worst Mominof the Universe(Kill La Kill Ragyo expy hits aaaaaaalllll my Nope buttons).
So the question here then, is who's the token Oni Lee?
I'm mostly a reader and not a voter/active person in this quest, but like I said before, if it wasn't for the marriage part, I'd be all over the offer. Still, even with the marriage offer, it's better than being under Worst Mom
So the question here then, is who's the token Oni Lee?
- Location
- United States of America
Well, as to the first point, Any plan that doesn't have a full 6 action breakthrough plan using both of these pills is using the pills in an inefficient manner. People are using them for 4 or 3 actions rather than the full 6. However, since those plans aren't picking up steam, then it falls into how inefficient you want to be. I believe saving the "Blood of Father Sky" and using it for a triple physical breakthrough next week is more beneficial than using it right now. It is quite possible to persuade me otherwise however.
As for the second part... I'm afraid that you aren't joking, which scares me a little bit. @Alectai's first plan had at least a 21% chance of doing nothing but getting sect points, it split the breakthrough actions into green and bronze, and instead of cultivating arts or doing anything else with the other actions it focused on restoring the lost spiritual or physical successes.
This plan is focused on breaking through into green this week or setting us up to breakthrough into green next week. It has 3 breakthrough actions all focused on green and the "Milk of Mother Earth" to give it a pseudo 4th action. It's looking like the chances are greater than 50% that 2 of the actions succeed which sets us up nicely if the 3rd one doesn't.
If we lose successes, then those are gained again by AC and AE cultivation through the Black Pool, which then serves double duty.
But you know what, I will add in "Blood of Father Sky" just so that the chances are that much higher of getting into Green.
- Location
- North Carolina
Yet again, CRX isn't the only authority we have to answer to. CRX's offer is an offer to become a vassal to the Cai and personal retainer to Cai Renxiang. The Cai are headed by Shenhua. We have no idea what Shenhua might ask us to do.
And what exactly do you mean by "doesn't hold historically"?
And Cai has been willing to let us do our own thing because we aren't under her direct authority. Everything she has asked us to do has been an offer, not an order, and we have accepted those offers. She doesn't actively govern our actions, and only cares that we follow her rules. We have no real idea how bossy she is.
Heck, we barely even know who she is as a person. We have only ever seen her in a professional context and we have no idea if the side she currently shows to us is actually representative of who she is and what she does. She seems to be a very idealistic person, with ironclad principles and a belief in "justice". But we have no idea what exactly are the ideals she believes in.
Actually, does anyone here have a solid characterization of CRX? Because I'm honestly drawing a blank here.
We weren't her vassal at that point and indeed was trying to get on our good side... Look at what Xiu had to do to get (?) out of a marriage or how the majority of the vassals we have seen so far are treated. They are all under some pretty clear and significant restrictions.
- Location
- Philippines
[X] Plan: Give the dude a chance
I have always preferred the Gu choice so this is a no brainer for me.
I have always preferred the Gu choice so this is a no brainer for me.
I mean real nobles do not go around telling the vassals to marry people they don't want to marry as a matter of course.
Dude, we have an interlude from her perspective. We know exactly what she's really like.
- Location
- Cyberspace
To be blunt, it sounds like you're complaining because an option you'd like to see explored further is not one most others do (the bolded), and think the support of Cai is entirely for out-of-character reasons (wanting more benefits, wanting Ling Qi to change orientations) and blame the quest/yrsillar for not promoting your preferred option. Note, incidentally that the "squeamish about marriage" bit is actually very in-character with Ling Qi. She's very much not interested in that side of things.
Myself, I started dubious of Cai Renxiang - heck, for rather out-of-character reasons (I didn't think it'd be interesting to follow, and didn't want Ling Qi to be "pinned down"), and went to somewhat in favor of her. Although I'd be most in favor of Ling Qi demurring until she sees the inner sect, to be honest (it's not like there'd be significant changes for either of the parties until towards the end of the second year anyway).
The thing is, Cai Renxiang is probably the most in-character choice for Ling Qi as she is currently. The Cai offer is being encouraged by the person Ling Qi trusts and likes the most (Bai Meizhen), it's made by someone who has been (at least as far as she's aware) honest and above-board with her. Renxiang offered payment for services, gifts for favors done, went along with ideas she had (that moonlit meadow, leasing the big cauldron) and gave her some very useful tutoring in bureaucracy so she could help her mother. She made the offer well in advance - "I'm interested in you, but you can have plenty of time to think about it."
Gu Tai... well, there's of course knowing him less. But also, as I mentioned, she's leery of marriage - and of how noble houses handle it. Rather than being near her family and (likely) at least some of her friends, she'll be in a alien and hostile environment.
The sect... Honestly, I was strongly in favor of this before, and still find it a fairly reasonable choice. The military service would be somewhat more rigid, but Ling Qi would likely continue to be able to do whatever she wants before and some time after. Eventually she'll be slotted in to a noble slot somewhere, but she'll have time on her own.
Imperial service... there's some interest in the equivalent of the Imperial Postal Service; go lots of fun places, deliver important messages, etc etc. But otherwise... not so interesting to me, and Ling Qi hasn't shown any interest at all in direct Imperial service.
To be honest, if after her term of service (or even during the ostensible 'period') Cai Renxiang would probably not be unhappy if Ling Qi continues to actively be a part of the Argent Sect. After all, the Sect is a locus of local power - Ling Qi having influence there is an avenue to influence the Sect in turn (a common tie between the Ducal House and the Sect, adding to Renxiang herself learning there and so forth). And if it helps Ling Qi grow stronger? Well, again, as long as Ling Qi is on her side, that's all for the better.
- Location
- North Carolina
And what exactly is she like? Can you describe her?
And evidence do you have to back that claim?
That is a possibility, yes. But once again, we are faced with a lack of information.
Honestly, the main reason why I oppose Cai's offer is because it limits our ability to gather information on what Ling Qi could do in the future.
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I'm in a hurry, but basically just imagine a second Meizhen, but with Bai viciousness replaced with an obsession with Order.
She gave us our only priceless and irreplaceable piece of equipment for joining her side in war game. Let's extrapolate that to joining her for real.
Which claim, that we have an interlude from her perspective?
- Location
- North Carolina
That sounds... quite negative to be honest. Heck, the entire reason why we like Meizhen is because she was willing to extend some help to us when we had nothing. Cai didn't pay attention to us until after we got off the ground in Zhou's Trial.
And Cai seems a lot less reserved than Bai, more willing to assert herself and her will upon others.
I understand that you're limited by time, but that description doesn't really tell me much about what makes Cai, Cai. It just tells me that Cai is Bai, but not Bai.
NaanContributor
Provider of delicious flatbread, and nothing else.
- Location
- Hawaii
Honestly? The main reason I'm not going for the Gu Tai offer is...well, the offer itself. I have no interest in playing "Little House on the Radioactive Desert". Picturing it from an in-universe viewpoint rather than an adventure seeking quest player, Golden Fields sounds like a nightmare that you have to pay people to set foot in if they weren't already born there.
Stuck in the ass-end of nowhere, at the bottom of the noble family totem pole, away from all our friends/characters we've spent the whole Quest getting to know except for Xiulan and maybe the rest of the GF group sometimes, constantly fighting off whatever gribblies born from Sun/Death Qi from preying on our peasants, without any infrastructure or institutions other than what we can put together ourselves.
And what's the main incentive Tai's able to come up with when we ask the all important question of "Why we'd ever want to do this?"
"Well, you'd be able to pick through sand buried ruins of our former civilization while hoping to randomly find treasures. You know, in your free time when you're not farming desert, fighting waves of Ash Zombies, and of course, carrying out your marital duties."
Woo hoo...
Stuck in the ass-end of nowhere, at the bottom of the noble family totem pole, away from all our friends/characters we've spent the whole Quest getting to know except for Xiulan and maybe the rest of the GF group sometimes, constantly fighting off whatever gribblies born from Sun/Death Qi from preying on our peasants, without any infrastructure or institutions other than what we can put together ourselves.
And what's the main incentive Tai's able to come up with when we ask the all important question of "Why we'd ever want to do this?"
"Well, you'd be able to pick through sand buried ruins of our former civilization while hoping to randomly find treasures. You know, in your free time when you're not farming desert, fighting waves of Ash Zombies, and of course, carrying out your marital duties."
Woo hoo...
- Location
- North Carolina
This claim:
I am asking for evidence to support this claim.
- Location
- Cyberspace
Probably not? I mean, Ling Qi would be a retainer - those don't necessarily need to establish their own families. In addition, cultivator lifespans apply - Shenhua herself took a *long* time to have her first child. Ling Qi not starting her family and getting an heir for 50 years or more wouldn't be a major problem. Remember, the big reason for a noble house to start a family is continuity - Ling Qi having a lifespan in the centuries would make doing so less urgent.
Her engagement was powered by her family though, not her family's liege. There's something of a different kind of tie of authority involved. Families arrange lots of marriages, and have done so throughout history; lieges have historically done far less of that. There's a certain amount of hinting at such-and-such's child being suitable for you (or one of your children), if I understand the many feudal cultures that have existing throughout history. But that's not the same as throwing around orders regarding marriages.
Mostly because doing so is pretty counter-productive. Families can get away with it because of strong personal ties, it being the domain of the family to do so, etc - and, in fact, very often families would call it off if the prospective happy couple were very much not in favor (since, after all, a couple that strongly dislikes one another are less likely to be loyal, less able to get things done, less likely to have kids and so forth).