To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)

Nervos Belli said:

We've taken two ISC diplo posture reports in the past three years, and both of them said the same thing. The ISC is an extremely cautious power, so their posture changes very slowly. We can safely hold off on that for a few years.

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Briefvoice said:

We've gotten ISC Diplomatic Posture reports for the past two years running, and last time we were explicitly told, "The ISC doesn't change their minds very fast. We don't have much new information."

I don't see the ISC as someone we need yearly diplomatic posture reports on, when we don't do that for the Cardassians, the Romulans, or the Klingons.

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That's true, in the regular course of events, their posture changes little and slowly. That certainly doesn't mean they don't react as events transpire. The GBZ Is likely dissolving to the point that we are already delineating putative borders. It would be ridiculous to assume the ISC doesn't have some immediate short term reaction to events as they unfold. For our last few reports on them there haven't been any outside factors affecting them that weren't already in play when we met them. Now there is.

pbluekan said:

That's true, in the regular course of events, their posture changes little and slowly. That certainly doesn't mean they don't react as events transpire. The GBZ Is likely dissolving to the point that we are already delineating putative borders. It would be ridiculous to assume the ISC doesn't have some immediate short term reaction to events as they unfold. For our last few reports on them there haven't been any outside factors affecting them that weren't already in play when we met them. Now there is.

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See, I'd say the GBZ dissolving means basically nothing to them. They were never a party to the treaty of Celos. They don't recognize any special "Gabriel Zone". Their position has always been that it's space near their border that is their right to explore, claim, and exploit as every other power does for space around its borders. That the Federation and Ashalla Pact declared it to be some mutual free fire zone is interesting but not their problem, and they would treat any attempt to attack or harass their mining and colonization efforts as an act of war.

Briefvoice said:

See, I'd say the GBZ dissolving means basically nothing to them. They were never a party to the treaty of Celos. They don't recognize any special "Gabriel Zone". Their position has always been that it's space near their border that is their right to explore, claim, and exploit as every other power does for space around its borders. That the Federation and Ashalla Pact declared it to be some mutual free fire zone is interesting but not their problem, and they would treat any attempt to attack or harass their mining and colonization efforts as an act of war.

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Yes, but they were hesitant to engage in colonization there and in further negotiations with us due to that conflict. Without it, they will certainly push into the area a little, bit more importantly, we may see them open up to a deepening of relations if they don't have to worry about an immediately hostile power on their border.

pbluekan said:

Yes, but they were hesitant to engage in colonization there and in further negotiations with us due to that conflict. Without it, they will certainly push into the area a little, bit more importantly, we may see them open up to a deepening of relations if they don't have to worry about an immediately hostile power on their border.

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Uh, I'm pretty sure they're 'hesistant' to engage in further colonization because that's their SOP. When they colonize, they grab one planet at a time, take years/decades to develop it and fortify it until it becomes as defensible as every one of their other planets, and then go for the next planet. Our fighting with the AP have nothing to do with their behavior.

[X][CARD] Cardassian Shipbuilding Report
[X][CARD] Cardassian Tactics Report (Gain +5% combat vs Cardassian fleets for the next 12 months)

[X][ROM] Romulan Fleet Strength Report

[X][KLI] Klingon Fleet Strength Report
[X][KLI] Klingon Shipbuilding Report

[X][HOH] Horizon Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][HOH] Horizon Ship Analysis Report - Virtuoso Strike Corvette
[X][HOH] Horizon Ship Analysis Report - Solace Cruiser

[X][ISC] ISC Ship Analysis Report - Guardian Cruiser

[X][REPORT] Romulan New Government and Political Cohesion
[X][REPORT] Klingon New Government and Political Cohesion
[X][REPORT] Status/Progress of Klingon-Romulan War

[X][REPORT] Dawiar Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][REPORT] Connections between Imelak and Hismeri

[X][REPORT] Lecarre Diplomatic Posture Report

Because we know way too little about the Lecarre, officially. Next time I'm going to recommend we shotgun update our fleet strength reports on the non-Cardassian members of the Pact, Lecarre included.

Vehrec said:

We know ISC fleet strength, we don't know their ship designs or shipyards. They have two designs, a cruiser and a capital.

Spending *three* reports on the Lecarre is a bit over the top, goddamn.

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Fair on the subject of ISC. I kinda forget what we have on them.

Counterpoint to the Lecarre: We have continuously left them out in those reports for the most part, and save for Obsidian Order presence and Klingon-Romulan War, I don't really see anything strictly speaking valuable in General Reports. It might seem like an overkill, but I'd say if there's time to quickly catch-up on Intelligence from previously ignored neighbor, that time is now.

Vehrec said:

Spending *three* reports on the Lecarre is a bit over the top, goddamn.

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To be fair, we have never really spent time on them and it has led to some serious shit. *points at the sensor scandal* *points at that other thing with the caitians that I can't recall*

Espionage wise, the Lecarre are the single most dangerous enemy we have. The Obsidian Order is bad and all, but they haven't gotten their people into the upper eschelons of the Federation yet. The Lecarre have.

@QMs -- I actually kind of wish there's a research project we can do for the SDB that's something like "research detection methods for Lecarre infiltrators" that will give us some kind of bonus. Maybe expand it into a research tree for internal security or general counter-espionage.

Is that something we can request from a future Snakepit, maybe? After all, T'Arvit just got us some new data on Lecarre biology.

[X][CARD] Cardassian Shipbuilding Report
[X][CARD] Cardassian Tactics Report (Gain +5% combat vs Cardassian fleets for the next 12 months)

[X][ROM] Romulan Fleet Strength Report

[X][KLI] Klingon Fleet Strength Report
[X][KLI] Klingon Shipbuilding Report

[X][HOH] Horizon Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][HOH] Horizon Ship Analysis Report - Virtuoso Strike Corvette
[X][HOH] Horizon Ship Analysis Report - Solace Cruiser

[X][ISC] ISC Ship Analysis Report - Guardian Cruiser

[X][REPORT] Romulan New Government and Political Cohesion
[X][REPORT] Klingon New Government and Political Cohesion
[X][REPORT] Status/Progress of Klingon-Romulan War
[X][REPORT] Cardassian Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][REPORT] Suspected Obsidian Order/Cardassian Intelligence Presence in Dawiar Space
[X][REPORT] Lecarre Diplomatic Posture Report

OneirosTheWriter said:

2321.Q2

[Remember, as always, this vote is non-plan, just vote the options you want to see]

(Pick Two Cardassian Tactical Reports due to Tier 2 Analysis, bonus rolled failed)
[ ][CARD] Cardassian Ship Analysis Report - Write in class
[ ][CARD] Cardassian Shipbuilding Report
[ ][CARD] Cardassian Tactics Report (Gain +5% combat vs Cardassian fleets for the next 12 months)
[ ][CARD] Cardassian Fleet Strength Report

(Pick One Romulan Tactical Report)
[ ][ROM] Romulan Ship Analysis Report - Write in
[ ][ROM] Romulan Shipbuilding Report
[ ][ROM] Romulan Shipyard Report
[ ][ROM] Romulan Fleet Strength Report

(Pick One Free Klingon Tactical Report - Bonus roll passed, two may be picked)
[ ][KLI] Klingon Ship Analysis Report - Write in
[ ][KLI] Klingon Shipbuilding Report
[ ][KLI] Klingon Shipyard Report
[ ][KLI] Klingon Fleet Strength Report

(Pick Three Free Horizon Tactical Report - Listening Post roll - failed)
[ ][HOH] Horizon Ship Analysis Report - Write in
[ ][HOH] Horizon Shipbuilding Report
[ ][HOH] Horizon Shipyard Report
[ ][HOH] Horizon Fleet Strength Report
[ ][HOH] Horizon Diplomatic Posture Report

(Pick one free ISC Report)
[ ][ISC] ISC Report Write In

(PIck up to six General Intel Reports)
[ ][REPORT] What would you like to see reported on?
[ ][REPORT] Romulan Diplomatic Posture Report
[ ][REPORT] Klingon Diplomatic Posture Report
[ ][REPORT] Cardassian Diplomatic Posture Report
[ ][REPORT] Horizon Diplomatic Posture Report
[ ][REPORT] <Any> Diplomatic Posture Report

[ ][REPORT] Klingon Fleet Strength Report
[ ][REPORT] <Any> Fleet Strength Report

[ ][REPORT] Ship Analysis Report: <Write in Ship to try to get profile>
[ ][REPORT] Shipyard Activity Report for: <Write in Power to get current build details and possibly resource levels>

[ ][REPORT] <Any> Tactics Report (2% combat bonus vs this fleet for 12months)

[ ][REPORT] GBZ: Pick a faction to gain an estimate of fleet strength in the GBZ
[ ][REPORT] GBZ: Determine what projects other factions are up to

[ ][REPORT] Write in other Question
(QM/N: As always, bear in mind what SI will be able to access or determine)

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I feel that this should always be accompanied by the Intelligence Tracking Sheet, Credit to @SynchronizedWritersBlock

UPDATED 2320.Q4​

Major Power Intelligence Report by Longest Date
6y Romulan Shipyard Report (2315.Q4)
4y Cardassian Shipyard Report (2317.Q4)
4y Cardassian Logistics and Deployment Requirements (2317.Q4)
3y Romulan Diplomatic Posture (2318.Q4) IMPORTANT: Current events rendered useless.
3y Harmony of Horizon Fleet Strength (2318.Q4) Note: Partial
2y Harmony of Horizon Shipyard Report (2319.Q4)
2y Klingon Shipbuilding Report (2319.Q4)
2y Romulan Fleet Strength (2319.Q4)
2y Cardassian Diplomatic Posture (2319.Q4)
2y Cardassian Fleet Strength (2319.Q4)
2y Cardassian Shipbuilding Report (2319.Q4)
2y Cardassian GBZ Strength (2319.Q4) Note: Summary
1y Interstellar Commonwealth Diplomatic Posture (2320.Q4)
1y Harmony of Horizon Shipbuilding Report (2320.Q4)
1y Harmon of Horizon Diplomatic Posture (2320.Q4)
1y Klingon Diplomatic Posture (2320.Q4) IMPORTANT: Current events rendered useless.
1y Klingon Fleet Strength (2320.Q4)
1y Romulan Shipbuilding Report (2320.Q4) Note: Current events rendered inaccurate.
1y Other Faction GBZ Projects (2320.Q4)

Minor Power Intelligence Report by Longest Date
9y Konen Fleet Strength Report (Never)
9y Goshawnar Fleet Strength Report (Never)
9y Dylaarian Fleet Strength (2313.Q1)
8y Yrillian Fleet Strength (2313.Q4)
5y Yrillian Diplomatic Posture (2316.Q4)
5y Dawiar Diplomatic Posture (2316.Q4)
3y Dylaarian Diplomatic Posture (2318.Q4)
2y Konen GBZ Strength (2319.Q4) Note: Summary
2y Dylaarian GBZ Strength (2319.Q4) Note: Summary
2y Goshawnar GBZ Strength (2319.Q4) Note: Summary
2y Licori Diplomatic Posture (2319.Q4)
2y Imelak Diplomatic Posture (Never)
1y Imelak Fleet Strength Report (2320.Q4)
1y Hismeri Septs Diplomatic Posture (2320.Q4)

Unreported and Underreported Ship Designs by First Mention
6y ISC Pathfinder Capital Ship (2315.Q4)
6y ISC Guardian Cruiser (2315.Q4)
5y Harmony of Horizon Old Fleet Tender (2317.Q1)
5y Harmony of Horizon Virtuoso Strike Corvette (2317.Q1)
5y Harmony of Horizon Dancer Strike Corvette (2317.Q1)
4y Konen Banshee Frigate (2317.Q3) Note: have some stats.
4y Konen Whisperer Cruiser (2317.Q3) Note: have some stats.
4y Konen Silence Battleship (2317.Q3) Note: have some stats.
4y Cardassian Kaldar II (2317.Q4) Note: have some stats.
4y Romulan Khellian Heavy Warbird (2317.Q4)
4y Harmony of Horizon Liberator Battleship (2317.Q4) Note: have most but not all stats.
4y Harmony of Horizon Solace Battlecruiser (2318.Q2)
4y Harmony of Horizon Scientist Cruiser (2318.Q3) Note: have most but not all stats.
4y Harmony of Horizon Alert Public Safety Corvette (2318.Q4)
4y Dylaarian Voyager Support Cruiser (2318.Q2)
4y Goshawnar Aiele Frigate (2318.Q3) Note: have some stats.
4y Goshawnar Warhawk-type Skirmish Cruiser (2318.Q3) Note: have some stats.
2y Goshawnar Motherhen (unknown type) (2319.Q4)
2y Cardassian Kapit Courier Frigate (2319.Q4) Note: have estimate but not exact stats.
2y Cardassian Tolkor Battleship (2319.Q4) Note: have estimate but not exact stats.
1y Imelak Breeder Capital Ship (2320.Q4)
1y Imelak Host Capital Ship (2320.Q4) Note: no intel sources on this class at all.
1y Imelak Jockey Frigate (2320.Q4)
1y Imelak Hound Squadron (2320.Q4) Note: likely to be deployed as aggregate squadron
?y All Yrillian Ships (?)
?y All Dawiar Ships (?)

OneirosTheWriter said:

News of a Romulan uprising at Iberius viciously suppressed, narrowly averted ecological catastrophe's on Romulus, the sudden deaths of four of seven contenders for the Klingon Chancellorship. The Cardassians may be aware of our moves among the Dawiar, the Lecarre are infiltrating again, Horizon is continuing to press on the diplomatic front, the Ashalla Pact home front is abuzz with domestic turmoil over the prospect of peace in the GBZ...

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Haven't seen much chatter over this.

Iberius is one of the Romulan major colonies that the Klingons have overrun. Given how nasty the Klingons can be, the streets of the cities there may well have run green. Assuming they weren't just flattened with torpedoes.

Ecological catastrophe on Romulus - orbital bombardment side effect? Some natural process (Volcano or something) that their forces were just to busy to deal with? A risky science experiment that control was lost on?

Three contenders left for the Klingon rulership. Are the assassination senders amoungst this number? All of them, or just one/two? Are the remainder war at all costs, peace possible, etc?

If the Cardassians are aware of the Dawair efforts, I'd expect it to be raised in the GBZ talks as a point in their favour.

Lecarre gonna Lecarre.

Minimum of 4 Horizon Scientist class Cruisers busy trying to pull the neutrals to their orbit.


If there is peace in the GBZ, making some guesses:
The Goshawnar lose their current role as raiders, based on the limited info we have on them, they won't be happy. If they have any actual bases in the GBZ, we don't know about it.
The Konen probably get to keep a mine or two in the GBZ, maybe a colony. But they had their chance for the big time and blew it. So back to being second class citizens.
The Dylarians probably keep the mines they have already built in their claimed sectors. Depends on what else has been found, their masters may or may not claim everything else in those areas.
As far as we know the Dawair and Lecarre have no assets in the GBZ.
The Imelak have stayed out if the GBZ so far.

Anyone else I'm forgetting?

[X][CARD] Cardassian Shipbuilding Report
[X][CARD] Cardassian Tactics Report (Gain +5% combat vs Cardassian fleets for the next 12 months)

[X][ROM] Romulan Fleet Strength Report

[X][KLI] Klingon Fleet Strength Report
[X][KLI] Klingon Shipbuilding Report

[X][HOH] Horizon Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][HOH] Horizon Ship Analysis Report - Virtuoso Strike Corvette
[X][HOH] Horizon Ship Analysis Report - Solace Cruiser

[X][ISC] ISC Ship Analysis Report - Guardian Cruiser

[X][REPORT] Romulan Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][REPORT] Klingon Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][REPORT] Status/Progress of Klingon-Romulan War
[X][REPORT] Cardassian Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][REPORT] Connections between Imelak and Hismeri
[X][REPORT] Lecarre Diplomatic Posture Report

OneirosTheWriter said:

I recently had dinner with a highly placed staffer in the Pacifist caucus, and it looks like now that the GBZ is winding down, without Starfleet having taken advantage of the situation to spark a war, that the Federation is taking another look at the Member Fleet situation and realising that we are a long way from the days of Admiral Cartwright now.

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Seriously, why would we have wanted to do that? Open war like that would a) get a bunch of our favorite officers killed b) get our precious ships blown up and c) distract from doing events.

[X][CARD] Cardassian Shipbuilding Report
[X][CARD] Cardassian Tactics Report (Gain +5% combat vs Cardassian fleets for the next 12 months)

[X][ROM] Romulan Fleet Strength Report

[X][KLI] Klingon Fleet Strength Report
[X][KLI] Klingon Shipbuilding Report

[X][HOH] Horizon Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][HOH] Horizon Ship Analysis Report - Virtuoso Strike Corvette
[X][HOH] Horizon Ship Analysis Report - Solace Cruiser

[X][ISC] ISC Ship Analysis Report - Guardian Cruiser

[X][REPORT] Klingon New Government and Political Cohesion
[X][REPORT] Romulan New Government and Political Cohesion
[X][REPORT] Status/Progress of Klingon-Romulan War
[X][REPORT] Cardassian Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][REPORT] Connections between Imelak and Hismeri
[X][REPORT] In depth anaysis of remaining potential Klingon Chancellors

The last item might be covered with the Posture Report, but added just to be sure. Even if the other two don't make the cut, and survive, they may pop up again in the future.

For the record, I don't think standard diplomatic posture reports are what we want here. Think about the wisdom of getting information on the diplomatic posture of France in 1813, or Russia in 1916. Or, for that matter, Russia in 1987. When an imperial government is on the edge of military collapse in a total war, learning what its diplomatic posture is now is less than fully helpful. Especially if you don't have good information on what kind of internal power struggles are going on within the government.

Knowing what the internal power struggles are like is almost certainly going to be much more important in providing us with context for future events.

Vehrec said:

My priorities-I'm jumping the gun a bit here by removing the tactical report, but by all indications the Cardassians are standing down and have begun negotiations-heavy conflict at this stage could only serve to derail those procedures. So I go for both fleet strength and shipbuiliding reports, as part of a general push to get to grips with the strength of the whole Cardassian-centered alliance.

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I think you're putting way too much emphasis on the relatively lesser powers of the Ashalla Pact, who are unlikely to be immediate problems. And not nearly enough emphasis on events the Klingon-Romulan War, which is almost certain to be an immediate problem.

"This is a fast changing situation and I expect more changes to come" is not a good reason to stop asking for extra intelligence reports on the situation.[/QUOTE]

Briefvoice said:

Wow, the Licori seem to have become stellar hub for diplomacy. Just this past year we've heard of them making contacts with the Gorn, the OSA, and now the Sotaw. Not to mention that we know they've been dealing with the Federation (obviously), the HoH, and the Romulans. They may be weak right now, but obviously everyone sees great things in the future of the Arcadian Empire and wants to grab a piece of that future.

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Halkh:

"Phase Two going according to plan."

We've been hearing a lot from Harriman and I like it. People come to him and tell him things and then he tells us. As to the actual news, I wonder where this is going. Harriman says this is part of Okaar's agenda... but she's a Betazoid Councillor, not a member of the original Four. Why is she the one pushing this rather than Human/Vulcan/Andorian/Tellarite Councillors?

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She's psychic, so presumably because she knows something most of us don't.

The most likely hypothesis I see is that she's trying to create a pacifist-leaning bloc that can counterweight the more militaristic-leaning STO (Seyek/Qloathi) or AAA (Amarki-Apiata Axis) power blocs that might otherwise naturally arise within Federation space. While Earth, Tellar, and Andor aren't super-pacifist planets by Federation standards, they probably do lean a lot more pacifist than those of the new members on our frontiers with the Cardassians

SynchronizedWritersBlock said:

It'll be fine as in we'll get the information you asked for.

It still doesn't make sense in terms of information gained. What in those reports won't be covered in a diplomatic posture report? What makes it better to have information on the government over information on the government's likely attitude towards us? The latter is what we want, the former is good to know but tangential.

It will be better for negotiations if we ask about someone's diplomatic posture, because that is by definition what a diplomatic posture is about.

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[Hm, were you already persuaded to change your mind on this? Don't want to belabor the point if so]

Night said:

Because we know way too little about the Lecarre, officially. Next time I'm going to recommend we shotgun update our fleet strength reports on the non-Cardassian members of the Pact, Lecarre included.

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Um, I don't think a diplomatic posture report is the best way to start learning about the Lecarre. I think we might be better off specifically asking about their infiltration, for instance.

Winged One said:

Seriously, why would we have wanted to do that? Open war like that would a) get a bunch of our favorite officers killed b) get our precious ships blown up and c) distract from doing events.

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Leslie, snorting:

"Because it's exactly the kind of thing Cartwright would have wanted to do."

Simon_Jester said:

[Hm, were you already persuaded to change your mind on this? Don't want to belabor the point if so]

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Nope. We'd get better information to inform diplomatic negotiations if we asked for a report on diplomatic posture. It's almost axiomatic, frankly. Knowing about the workings of the interim governments will tell us useful things about those governments, which would include attitudes towards the war, negotiations, or the Federation, but they won't quite show the big diplomatic picture as well.

[X][CARD] Cardassian Shipbuilding Report
[x][CARD] Cardassian Tactics Report (Gain +5% combat vs Cardassian fleets for the next 12 months)

[X][ROM] Romulan Fleet Strength Report

[X][KLI] Klingon Fleet Strength Report
[X][KLI] Klingon Shipbuilding Report

[X][HOH] Horizon Ship Analysis Report - Solace Cruiser
[X][HOH] Horizon Ship Analysis Report - Virtuoso Strike Corvette
[X][HOH] Horizon Diplomatic Posture Report

[X][ISC] ISC Ship Analysis Report - Guardian Cruiser

[X][REPORT] Status/Progress of Klingon-Romulan War
[X][REPORT] Cardassian Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][REPORT] Connections between Imelak and Hismeri
[X][REPORT] Klingon New Government and Political Cohesion
[X][REPORT] Romulan New Government and Political Cohesion
[X][REPORT] Report on Suspected Lecarre Infiltration

I think this last is much better than asking for a report on Lecarre diplomatic posture. We're almost certainly going to learn "the Lecarre don't openly contact people, they just infiltrate the hell out of them."

[X][CARD] Cardassian Shipbuilding Report
[X][CARD] Cardassian Tactics Report (Gain +5% combat vs Cardassian fleets for the next 12 months)
[X][ROM] Romulan Fleet Strength Report
[X][KLI] Klingon Fleet Strength Report
[X][KLI] Klingon Shipbuilding Report
[X][HOH] Horizon Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][HOH] Horizon Ship Analysis Report - Virtuoso Strike Corvette
[X][HOH] Horizon Ship Analysis Report - Solace Cruiser
[X][ISC] ISC Ship Analysis Report - Guardian Cruiser
[X][REPORT] Romulan New Government and Political Cohesion
[X][REPORT] Klingon New Government and Political Cohesion
[X][REPORT] Status/Progress of Klingon-Romulan War
[X][REPORT] Cardassian Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][REPORT] Connections between Imelak and Hismeri
[X][REPORT] Lecarre Diplomatic Posture Report

@Alias , may I ask why you think a Lecarre diplomatic posture report is likely to prove enlightening, compared to a report on the extent of their infiltration?

If nothing else, we might well be able to relax a bit if we knew enough to establish some limits on the extent of the infiltration.

SynchronizedWritersBlock said:

Nope. We'd get better information to inform diplomatic negotiations if we asked for a report on diplomatic posture. It's almost axiomatic, frankly. Knowing about the workings of the interim governments will tell us useful things about those governments, which would include attitudes towards the war, negotiations, or the Federation, but they won't quite show the big diplomatic picture as well.

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To be more clear, though, when a government is unstable, you just cannot realistically hope that their diplomatic posture will remain stable enough that knowing it in detail remains valuable.

Again, imagine being the world's greatest expert in Soviet diplomatic posture circa 1987, or the greatest expert in the Czar's foreign policy circa 1916. You might feel very well informed about how your respective generation of Russians was going to interact with the outside world, but your information wouldn't remain very important for long. And trying to act on it without understanding the underlying structure of the governments and their internal weaknesses isn't going to get you anywhere.

Because there is a high likelihood of the war ending within the next year, and/or of some major event that forces the Federation to freak out and become involved somehow, we really need detailed context for the social and political changes both nations have experienced.

Simon_Jester said:

To be more clear, though, when a government is unstable, you just cannot realistically hope that their diplomatic posture will remain stable enough that knowing it in detail remains valuable.

Again, imagine being the world's greatest expert in Soviet diplomatic posture circa 1987, or the greatest expert in the Czar's foreign policy circa 1916. You might feel very well informed about how your respective generation of Russians was going to interact with the outside world, but your information wouldn't remain very important for long. And trying to act on it without understanding the underlying structure of the governments and their internal weaknesses isn't going to get you anywhere.

Because there is a high likelihood of the war ending within the next year, and/or of some major event that forces the Federation to freak out and become involved somehow, we really need detailed context for the social and political changes both nations have experienced.

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You're saying it like the governments we're currently dealing with are the old ones and that we'd take a useless diplomatic report again, but we already know they're not the same. That was last year's diplomatic report! Looking towards the internal structure of the governments is being a step behind - the Romulans are already being run by a different faction that we know about, and the Klingons are still moving in secret.

I think you agree that no one expects the war to last another full year - things will come to a head within half a year at very most. So we need information on diplomatic posture now. We don't have time to peer into the depths of Klingon or Romulan chaos and figure out who the movers and shakers are, and that information is even more prone to upheaval than overall sentiment.

Our diplomatic posture reports aren't going to be about the old stable governments, so that analogy falls rather flat.

[X][CARD] Cardassian Shipbuilding Report
[x][CARD] Cardassian Tactics Report (Gain +5% combat vs Cardassian fleets for the next 12 months)

[X][ROM] Romulan Fleet Strength Report

[X][KLI] Klingon Fleet Strength Report
[X][KLI] Klingon Shipbuilding Report

[X][HOH] Horizon Ship Analysis Report - Solace Cruiser
[X][HOH] Horizon Ship Analysis Report - Virtuoso Strike Corvette
[X][HOH] Horizon Diplomatic Posture Report

[X][ISC] ISC Ship Analysis Report - Guardian Cruiser

[X][REPORT] Status/Progress of Klingon-Romulan War
[X][REPORT] Cardassian Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][REPORT] Connections between Imelak and Hismeri
[X][REPORT] Klingon New Government and Political Cohesion
[X][REPORT] Romulan New Government and Political Cohesion
[X][REPORT] Report on Suspected Lecarre Infiltration

SynchronizedWritersBlock said:

You're saying it like the governments we're currently dealing with are the old ones and that we'd take a useless diplomatic report again, but we already know they're not the same. That was last year's diplomatic report!

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Okay, so it's like finding out the diplomatic posture of the Provisional Government in 1917? Or the Soviet Union in 1990, then? Again, the key point is that their posture is going to be evolving on a timescale of months, so if we don't even know who the major players are, almost everything we learn is going to become obsolete or irrelevant as fast as we can put together the reports.

I think you agree that no one expects the war to last another full year - things will come to a head within half a year at very most. So we need information on diplomatic posture now. We don't have time to peer into the depths of Klingon or Romulan chaos and figure out who the movers and shakers are and then try to come up with their posture at a later date.

Our diplomatic posture reports aren't going to be about the old stable governments, so that analogy falls rather flat.

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The point here is that the diplomatic posture reports aren't about the governments at all, they're about specific policy stances taken by those governments. That's even shakier ground to make decisions on, because even if the new governmental faction remains in power, it's very likely to change its foreign policy as convenient in order to remain in power. The top priorities of a Romulan government right now are "fend off our political enemies" and "somehow don't get strangled by the damn Klingons." Conversely the Klingons' top priorities are "fend off assassins from rival Houses" and "somehow manage to strangle the damn Romulans."

All other foreign policy priorities are such a distant third place behind those two that we can expect them to change rapidly as a function of what happens in the next few months of warfare.

I don't think a report on Lecarre infiltration attempts will tell us much. If we had the information, we would be acting upon it.

[x] Simon_Jester

Lets have a Tally

Simon_Jester said:

@Alias , may I ask why you think a Lecarre diplomatic posture report is likely to prove enlightening, compared to a report on the extent of their infiltration?

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I can't speak for Alias of course, but my reason is this.

The first step to actually solving the Lecarre problem is understanding what motivates them. What are they trying to achieve with all of these repeated infiltration? What's the goal on a Grand Strategy Level? Sure they're part of the Ashalla Pact, but why are they even that? Are they hoping to gain something from the Cardassians? Were they threatened into it? Do they want more territory? Do they think they'd be safer without the Federation around? Etc, etc.

Yes, a Diplomatic Posture report isn't going to tell us all of that, but it picks at the thread. It'll at least give us a broad picture of what they're about and maybe some things to follow up on in future intelligence reports. Your vote, a report on infiltration, might help with better catching these spies but it'll do nothing about the reasons that they keep sending these spies. To ultimately end the threat we need to understand the motivations of our enemies and look for an opening to help them fix whatever in their society keeps driving them to this. It's worth a shot, anyway.