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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)

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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest) Starfleet Ship Design Bureau, Refit ("To Boldly Go...")
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Based off the 2321.Q1 MWCO update here are the economies of the Federation's various Members:
OneirosTheWriter said:
Income
Name - BR - SR - Infra - Off - Enl - Tech
Andor - 90 - 75 - 3.11 - 1.2 - 2.25 - 1.75
Vulcan - 55 - 60 - 2.24 - 1.75 - 2.75 - 2.5
Tellar - 95 - 80 - 3 - 1.9 - 3.25 - 2.4
Earth - 110 - 120 - 3.98 - 2 - 2.75 - 2.2
Amarki - 265 - 255 - 2.11 - 5.25 - 9 - 6
Betazoids - 50 - 60 - 1.53 - 1.45 - 1.8 - 1.45
Caitian - 115 - 135 - 1.97 - 1.5 - 1.5 - 0.8
Rigel - 90 - 70 - 3.3 - 2.25 - 3.75 - 3.75
Apiata - 165 - 175 - 2.44 - 0.5 - 6 - 3
Indoria - 80 - 65 - 1.44 - 1.25 - 2 - 1.25
Gaeni - 65 - 85 - 2.61 - 0.75 - 1.25 - 1.75
Orions - 65 - 55 - 1.41 - 1.75 - 2 - 1.75
Caldonia - 70 - 45 - 1.29 - 1.2 - 1.7 - 1.5
STO - 220 - 175 - 3.88 - 5.5 - 6 - 5.25
Risa - 60 - 50 - 1.41 - 0.5 - 0.5 - 0.5
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Assuming they didn't cut back spending upon merging here is the combined economy of the Founding Four:
Founding Four - 350BR - 335SR - 12.33 Infra - 6.85O - 11E - 8.85T​
To put things into perspective here is the Founding Four's economies as a percentage of the whole:
Bulk Resources: 22%
Special Resources: 22%
Infrastructure: 35%
Officers: 24%
Enlisted: 24%
Technicians: 25%​
Of course that does make sense seeing as they are four out of the fifteen economies. Still it does put a good deal of economic power into their hands. What's more there aren't really any other blocks that can serious oppose them. If we take out the existing blocks we get:
  • Amarki
  • Betazoids
  • Caitian
  • Rigel
  • Apiata
  • Indoria
  • Gaeni
  • Orions
  • Caldonia
  • Risa
Running the numbers the only composites that can match the founding four are:
  1. Amarki-Apiata
  2. Amarki-Orions
  3. Amarki-Indoria
From a geographical and economic position an Amarki-Apiata coalition would make sense except their militaries operate on a very different basis. The STO could get away with that seeing as pretty much all their stuff needed replacing to upgraded versions anyway but given the cultural differences I don't see an Amarkia-Apiata pairing working out even if they did scrap their existing designs.

Amarki-Orions count work as the Amarki want to build a strong navy and the Orions are clearly angling to play a major role in the Federation economy with their shipyards. They've also direct neighbors so the geography is good for them. I think the biggest stumbling block here would be their history. There is the history of Orions taking Amarki as slaves and then there is the bombing of Lironh by the Syndicate to consider.

Amarki-Indoria works geographically but I can't really say anything else about it since I honestly don't remember anything interesting about the Indorians.
 
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Y'know, as a Betazoid President of the Federation, I wonder what she sees/hears when she meets the head of Starfleet Intelligence?

Wait... AAAAAARRGH!!! Sure, I missed the vote, but argh! I'm not sure if it's already been pointed out, but as a Betazoid President, what would she have seen if we voted to have the Empress Orion meet with her? Now I wish this was a game where I could load previous saves! ... Or write an omake (that isn't just Empress Orion nuking Earth and legging it).
 
[X][CARD] Cardassian Tactics Report (Gain +5% combat vs Cardassian fleets for the next 12 months)
[X][CARD] Cardassian Shipbuilding Report
[X][ROM] Romulan Fleet Strength Report
[X][KLI] Klingon Fleet Strength Report
[X][KLI] Klingon Shipbuilding Report
[X][HOH] Horizon Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][HOH] Horizon Ship Analysis Report - Virtuoso Strike Corvette
[X][HOH] Horizon Ship Analysis Report - Solace Cruiser
[X][ISC] ISC Ship Analysis Report - Guardian Cruiser

The non-controversial picks.

[X][REPORT] Status/Progress of Klingon-Romulan War
[X][REPORT] Romulan New Government and Political Cohesion
[X][REPORT] Klingon New Government and Political Cohesion

The wind down of this war right on the borders of our core sectors is something that we shouldn't take our eyes off of, even if it means less reports on the Ashalla Pact side of things.

[X][REPORT] Cardassian Diplomatic Posture Report

Dithered on the various diplomatic posture reports and decided on this one. The Cardassian one is immediately relevant to our attempts to get that treaty signed to draw down the GBZ and put those ships to better use elsewhere.

I don't think a diplomatic posture report for the Lecarre will tell us anything useful, especially given how good they are at intel (and presumably counter-intel). I wouldn't know how far I can trust said report. Also considered a Dawiar diplomatic posture report, but don't think that's an immediate/critical need yet. So that leaves...

[X][REPORT] Suspected Obsidian Order/Cardassian Intelligence Presence in Dawiar Space

This is something that would be useful in the near future for our current diplomatic efforts. If it helps us avoid getting caught by the Cardassians and screwing up the treaty efforts, all the better.

[X][REPORT] Connections between Imelak and Hismeri

Not critical but given that we're hearing from the Hishmeri a lot in the last year or two, there is a good chance of this coming up.

[][REPORT] Licori Diplomatic Posture Report

Not choosing this for this year, but I think it deserves an honorable mention for next year's steering committee. The Licori seems to have become a hub for a lot of major and minor powers. It would be a good idea to get a closer look on their relationships and alignments.
 
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Tolack said:
Y'know, as a Betazoid President of the Federation, I wonder what she sees/hears when she meets the head of Starfleet Intelligence?

Wait... AAAAAARRGH!!! Sure, I missed the vote, but argh! I'm not sure if it's already been pointed out, but as a Betazoid President, what would she have seen if we voted to have the Empress Orion meet with her? Now I wish this was a game where I could load previous saves! ... Or write an omake (that isn't just Empress Orion nuking Earth and legging it).
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do you really think Hayant would have managed to get that close to Earth before Starfleet stopped her permanently?
 
UberJJK said:
Of course that does make sense seeing as they are four out of the fifteen economies. Still it does put a good deal of economic power into their hands. What's more there aren't really any other blocks that can serious oppose them.
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Wasn't the Orions thinking about joining in the STO? With that addition, what percentage of economic power does the STO wield?
 
Anime_Fan35 said:
do you really think Hayant would have managed to get that close to Earth before Starfleet stopped her permanently?
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I was referring to this;

AKuz said:
[ ] Accept Hayant's Offer
[ ] Accept Asazi's Offer
[ ] Reject Both Offers and Attack
[ ] Withdraw from Exar Draconis
[ ] Offer Hayant to be escorted to Sol for meeting with the president of Federation for negotiation. If she rejects: Attack
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I assume it wasn't picked because it'd involve putting an Orion Empire dreadnought in range of Earth. I'll still wonder what Okeer would've seen in Hayant, if she didn't have psionic defences.
 
[X][CARD] Cardassian Shipbuilding Report
[X][CARD] Cardassian Tactics Report (Gain +5% combat vs Cardassian fleets for the next 12 months)

[X][ROM] Romulan Fleet Strength Report

[X][KLI] Klingon Fleet Strength Report
[X][KLI] Klingon Shipbuilding Report

[X][HOH] Horizon Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][HOH] Horizon Ship Analysis Report - Virtuoso Strike Corvette
[X][HOH] Horizon Ship Analysis Report - Solace Cruiser

[X][ISC] ISC Ship Analysis Report - Guardian Cruiser

[X][REPORT] Romulan New Government and Political Cohesion
[X][REPORT] Klingon New Government and Political Cohesion
[X][REPORT] Status/Progress of Klingon-Romulan War
[X][REPORT] Cardassian Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][REPORT] Connections between Imelak and Hismeri
[X][REPORT] Report on Suspected Lecarre Infiltration

Basically @pbluekan variant of @Briefvoice vote proposal
 
[X][CARD] Cardassian Shipbuilding Report
[X][CARD] Cardassian Tactics Report (Gain +5% combat vs Cardassian fleets for the next 12 months)
[X][ROM] Romulan Fleet Strength Report
[X][KLI] Klingon Fleet Strength Report
[X][KLI] Klingon Shipbuilding Report
[X][HOH] Horizon Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][HOH] Horizon Ship Analysis Report - Virtuoso Strike Corvette
[X][HOH] Horizon Ship Analysis Report - Solace Cruiser
[X][ISC] ISC Ship Analysis Report - Guardian Cruiser
[X][REPORT] Romulan New Government and Political Cohesion
[X][REPORT] Klingon New Government and Political Cohesion
[X][REPORT] Status/Progress of Klingon-Romulan War
[X][REPORT] Cardassian Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][REPORT] Connections between Imelak and Hismeri
[X][REPORT] Lecarre Diplomatic Posture Report
 
[X][CARD] Cardassian Shipbuilding Report
[X][CARD] Cardassian Tactics Report (Gain +5% combat vs Cardassian fleets for the next 12 months)

[X][ROM] Romulan Fleet Strength Report

[X][KLI] Klingon Fleet Strength Report
[X][KLI] Klingon Shipbuilding Report

[X][HOH] Horizon Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][HOH] Horizon Ship Analysis Report - Virtuoso Strike Corvette
[X][HOH] Horizon Ship Analysis Report - Solace Cruiser

[X][ISC] ISC Ship Analysis Report - Guardian Cruiser

[X][REPORT] Romulan New Government and Political Cohesion
[X][REPORT] Klingon New Government and Political Cohesion
[X][REPORT] Status/Progress of Klingon-Romulan War
[X][REPORT] Cardassian Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][REPORT] Connections between Imelak and Hismeri
[X][REPORT] Lecarre Diplomatic Posture Report
 
charysa said:
Wasn't the Orions thinking about joining in the STO? With that addition, what percentage of economic power does the STO wield?
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STO and the Orions are about equal to the Amarki:
Name BR SR Infra Officers Enlisted Techs
Amarki 265 255 2.11 5.25 9.00 6.00
STO + Orions 285 230 5.29 7.25 8.00 7.00
There is a reason every pair that matched up had the Amarki in it.
 
We'd be shooting ourselves in the foot with these fancy cohesion reports. The entire point of "Diplomatic Posture" is to report what posture the people we're doing diplomacy with will have. The more focused view will miss crucial elements here. Just vote for regular old diplomatic posture, it is exactly what we want in this situation.


[X][CARD] Cardassian Shipbuilding Report
[X][CARD] Cardassian Tactics Report (Gain +5% combat vs Cardassian fleets for the next 12 months)

[X][ROM] Romulan Fleet Strength Report

[X][KLI] Klingon Fleet Strength Report
[X][KLI] Klingon Shipbuilding Report

[X][HOH] Horizon Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][HOH] Horizon Ship Analysis Report - Virtuoso Strike Corvette
[X][HOH] Horizon Ship Analysis Report - Solace Cruiser

[X][ISC] ISC Ship Analysis Report - Guardian Cruiser

[X][REPORT] Romulan Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][REPORT] Klingon Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][REPORT] Status/Progress of Klingon-Romulan War
[X][REPORT] Cardassian Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][REPORT] Connections between Imelak and Hismeri
[X][REPORT] Lecarre Diplomatic Posture Report
 
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SynchronizedWritersBlock said:
We'd be shooting ourselves in the foot with these fancy cohesion reports. The entire point of "Diplomatic Posture" is to report what posture the people we're doing diplomacy with will have. The more focused view will miss crucial elements here. Just vote for regular old diplomatic posture, it is exactly what we want in this situation.
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Direct quote from Akuz in the chat when I asked.

It'll be fine if you get government reports
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That was in response to this question:
GM and GM Accessories So the results of Intelligence "soft" Intelligence reports on stuff like Diplomatic Posture are all very meta and mainly influence the narrative you write. Am I just wasting my time trying to vote for "Romulan New Government and Political Cohesion" over the usual generic "Diplomatic Posture"? Does it even make a difference in the write-ups we recieve or how 'useful' you fictionally model the intelligence info being as you write stuff going forward?
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It'll be fine. No shooting, no exploding feet. I mean, truth be told it would probably also be fine if we got regular Diplomatic Posture reports, but the write-ins won't do any harm. No screw-jobs from it. The GMs won't leave out crucial elements and laugh uproariously at the fools, the fools. Probably the only real effect is that there will be a slightly different angle in the narrative of the write-ups we get and that's a matter of pure entertainment value.
 
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Briefvoice said:
Direct quote from Akuz in the chat when I asked.



It'll be fine. No shooting, no exploding feet. I mean, truth be told it would probably also be fine if we got regular Diplomatic Posture reports, but the write-ins won't do any harm. No screw-jobs from it. The GMs won't leave out crucial elements and laugh uproariously at the fools, the fools.
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It'll be fine as in we'll get the information you asked for.

It still doesn't make sense in terms of information gained. What in those reports won't be covered in a diplomatic posture report? What makes it better to have information on the government over information on the government's likely attitude towards us? The latter is what we want, the former is good to know but tangential.

It will be better for negotiations if we ask about someone's diplomatic posture, because that is by definition what a diplomatic posture is about.


e: Such questions in the past have always received a "that's a valid choice" response, BV. They don't necessarily mean that we get all the information exactly as you intend it. We've been over this ground before.
 
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SynchronizedWritersBlock said:
It'll be fine as in we'll get the information you asked for.

It still doesn't make sense in terms of information gained. What in those reports won't be covered in a diplomatic posture report? What makes it better to have information on the government over information on the government's likely attitude towards us? The latter is what we want, the former is good to know but tangential.
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Do you remember the 2315 Intelligence Reports? I'll link it here.

Status/Progress of Sydraxian Civil Strife

(https://forums.sufficientvelocity.c...-starfleet-quest.32005/page-1846#post-8469486)

The exact details, even conveyed directly to us via the Concerned Citizens, is sketchy. Somewhat annoyingly, as we are playing second-fiddle to the Diplomatic Service on this matter, our information streams are often coming second hand from the FDS. However, they are providing information, if not as promptly as we would like. Also, the efforts of Office 35, which specialises in signal intercepts and decryption of Sydraxian Hierarchy communication, has been greatly aided by the turmoil there.

A number of factions have arisen within the Sydraxian political and military system, with a varying set of political viewpoints. Currently, the "Blues", which are a more moderate faction of the old guard of Sydraxian politics, have taken control of office, and this has done much to reduce the boiling tension to a simmer. At least, this is how it seemed on the surface. Discussions with the Citizens, and our own signal intercepts, suggest that the Blue-Green alliance is losing ground fast to a re-emboldened Gabriel Graduate group begins to reject as hollow a variety of concessions and promises made in the early days of the collapse of the Red Hierarchy. In particular, an abortive attempt to "purge" the officer corps of those who played significant roles in the collapse of the previous hierarchy nearly brought about the start of a civil war. Realising the depth of opposition they faced, the Blue-Green Hierarchy stepped back.

Our best assessment is that we may soon be required to make a decision as to whether we offer direct aide to one of the factions to have access to whichever group comes out on top. The Sydraxians are a significant part of the Cardassian's deterrent value against the Federation, and the political instability is assuredly being watched most carefully by the Obsidian Order and others on Cardassia.
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Something very much like that is what I want, and you'll note that is the result of a write-in rather than a generic Diplomatic Posture report.

Are you going to argue that wasn't very helpful to help the FDS pick a faction in the Sydraxian civil strife and figure out how to negotiate with and support them?
 
When I say "It'll be fine" I mean that you'll get information that'll be relevant, not just getting a report that reads "Blind Panic" and sniggering laughter.
 
Briefvoice said:
Do you remember the 2315 Intelligence Reports? I'll link it here.



Something very much like that is what I want, and you'll note that is the result of a write-in rather than a generic Diplomatic Posture report.

Are you going to argue that wasn't very helpful to help the FDS pick a faction in the Sydraxian civil strife and figure out how to negotiate with and support them?
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Why don't we ask for "Status of Romulan civil strife and likely posture of resulting government" then? Same for Klingons. Or request the reports separately, as in "Status of Romulan civil strife" combined with a "Romulan Diplomatic Posture Report". Either of those options would get what you want better than what you've picked.

AKuz said:
When I say "It'll be fine" I mean that you'll get information that'll be relevant, not just getting a report that reads "Blind Panic" and sniggering laughter.
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There'll be information relevant to what's requested, is what you mean? Or there'll be information relevant to everything we want to do with it?
 
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SynchronizedWritersBlock said:
Why don't we ask for "Status of Romulan civil strife and likely posture of resulting government" then? Same for Klingons. Or request the reports separately, as in "Status of Romulan civil strife" combined with a "Romulan Diplomatic Posture Report". Either of those options would get what you want better than what you've picked.
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I don't really think quibbling over exact wording is as big a deal as you're making it out to be? The GMs are reading the discussion here. They understand the context that we want to know what's going on with the governments of the two powers with special focus on how it affects potential peace negotiations as mediated by the Federation. They're not robots or genies who will screw us over if the wording isn't perfect. (And I think the wording is fine really.)

I mean, these reports are pretty narrative and loosy-goosy. I figure they'll put in what's relevant for what they understand the intent of the voters to be.
 
[X][CARD] Cardassian Shipbuilding Report
[X][CARD] Cardassian Tactics Report (Gain +5% combat vs Cardassian fleets for the next 12 months)

[X][ROM] Romulan Fleet Strength Report

[X][KLI] Klingon Fleet Strength Report
[X][KLI] Klingon Shipbuilding Report

[X][HOH] Horizon Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][HOH] Horizon Ship Analysis Report - Virtuoso Strike Corvette
[X][HOH] Horizon Ship Analysis Report - Solace Cruiser

[X][ISC] ISC Ship Analysis Report - Guardian Cruiser

[X][REPORT] Romulan New Government and Political Cohesion
[X][REPORT] Klingon New Government and Political Cohesion
[X][REPORT] Status/Progress of Klingon-Romulan War

[X][REPORT] Cardassian Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][REPORT] Connections between Imelak and Hismeri

[X][REPORT] Suspected Obsidian Order/Cardassian Intelligence Presence in Dawiar Space
 
Nervos Belli said:
I'm actually fine leaving that subject alone. I really don't think an ISC-Horizon war is in our interests right now. If we get involved, then we leave ourselves open for the Cardassians to jump on us while we're distracted, and fighting both at the same time is a prospect I'd much rather avoid. If we don't, then either the ISC wages a bloody war of subjugation on the Horizon or the Horizon defeats the ISC, neither of which I think is good for us. The only upside would be that the HoH would be too distracted to contest our diplomatic outreach, but that doesn't make up for the costs in my opinion.

Remember, the ISC are unlikely to start conflicts, but they are also unwilling to settle for anything but complete neutralization of the threat. We need to be very careful what conflicts we draw them into, especially if we want to try for an alliance of sorts.
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I don't think an intelligence report is going to start a war - but it might tell us if a war is about to start. I agree an ISC-HoH war would not be in our interests, but it's feasible the ISC determine the HoH used to raid them and declare war. I'd rather know about it or ideally see it coming from a report than let it blindside us.
 
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