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Forge of Destiny(Xianxia Quest)

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PrimalShadow said:
But to be clear, your idea is to start phasing FVM out of our build, albeit not necessarily aggressively. Correct?
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Yeah; I don't think we're going to find something better in yellow/early green, and we've already paid the cost to have it. It might not be a perfect fit with all our other arts, but we also aren't going to causally recoup it's cost. Dropping it would be silly, I'm just not for pouring effort into maintaining it, basically.
 
TheLastOne said:
Yeah; I don't think we're going to find something better in yellow/early green, and we've already paid the cost to have it. It might not be a perfect fit with all our other arts, but we also aren't going to causally recoup it's cost. Dropping it would be silly, I'm just not for pouring effort into maintaining it, basically.
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But right now, FVM doesn't work; at least not against peer opponents. We need more dice on it, and the only way to get more also consists of us "pouring effort" into the task.
 
[X] Plan Meridians are Dorks.

It has everything I want most in terms of minors. Forest plan lacks Cai minor thus I'm not voting for it.
 
PrimalShadow said:
But right now, FVM doesn't work; at least not against peer opponents. We need more dice on it, and the only way to get more also consists of us "pouring effort" into the task.
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Sure, and I'm agaisnt that. You don't instantly sunset something, you just slowly move on to other things until it's fallen completely by the wayside.

FVM does a bunch of thing that are still useful in group fights, or against opponents we outclass, but I don't see it being useful in peer fights. If we wanted to change that we would need talismans to boost it, other music arts to get music boosting passive, and other such investments.

And that's just not a good investment. Music Arts aren't really very compatible with EACH OTHER, you can only really get the passives playing nice since you can only play one song at a time. So I don't really see the bard build being a valid build long term; it's mechanically fiddly in a way I suspect isn't going to develop in a rewarding way and we'll regret in the long term.

So we sunset it. We don't drop it (at least not now), but we don't fight to keep it relevant.
 
Also weighing in on the build debate. Qi is more interested in focusing on music than archery thus I support gradually phasing archery out in favor of music. AE can stay for the summons for the moment.

Sure maybe music isn't as good thematically for stealthy ganking but I'm fairly sure we can get a music attack art that lets us punch a single person in the soul.
 
There's no need to phase anything out for the moment; streamlining our build is something we can do in the Inner Sect when we have greater resources and greater knowledge on what's best for us AFTER testing it out in the tournament. Right now is crunch time and we need all the advantages we can get, so discarding what we have doesn't sit right with me.

also:
[X] Plan Meridians are Dorks.
Adhoc vote count started by Codex on Dec 2, 2017 at 5:41 AM, finished with 266 posts and 47 votes.
  • [X] Plan Meridians are Dorks.
    -[X] market pills: relevant ones
    -[X] rare pills : none
    -[X] Grinning Moon blessing : FZ
    -[X] Train at the vent with Su Ling
    --[X] Meridian : Spine
    --[X] Share Growing Caverns for Su Ling and Li Suyin after getting Meizhen's OK. Ask them to keep an eye out for Wood sites if possible.
    -[X] Take a job
    --[X] Passion Fruit Collection
    -[X] Train with Meizhen
    --[X] TRF
    --[X] Meizhen held something back in your last conversation. Press her on it, it seemed that she had some idea that might allow them to stay together
    -[X] Explore and Train with Golden Fields
    --[X] FSA
    --[X] Use Windblown Snowfield for FSA site.
    -[X] Cultivate on your own
    --[X] Meridian : Arm
    --[X] Spend a little time with your 'bodyguards. You should at least know what they can do in a fight
    -[X] Spend further time around Cai Renxiang, try to get into her head a little, and see what the girl is really like
    -[X] Xiulan's family apparently wants to talk to you, you should probably see to that
    -[X] Spend some time with Zeqing, you should try to better understand the snow woman, so that you don't end up offending her
    [X] Plan Forbidden Forests, Forgotten Paths
    -[X] Resources
    --[X] Purchased and used: Vigorous Sapling (2rs); 2nd level wood pill (6rs); 1st level earth pill (2rs); 2nd level earth pill (6rs); Channel Cleansing Pill (2rs); Heavy Rains Pill (10rs)
    --[X] Used from Inventory: 3 Red Spirit Stones; 1 Yellow Spirit Stone (Total cost 31rs and 1ys)
    --[X] Overflow to physical
    --[X] EPC Bonus to Fleeting Zypher
    -[X] Main Actions
    --[X] Train at the vent with Su Ling
    ---[X] Thousand Ring Fortress
    ---[X] Work on formations with Li Suyin, working on a project with your friend will be fun
    --[X] Take a job
    ---[X] Passion Fruit Collection
    --[X] Train with Meizhen
    ---[X] Abyssal Exhalation
    ---[X] Meizhen held something back in your last conversation. Press her on it, it seemed that she had some idea that might allow them to stay together
    --[X] Explore and Train with Golden Fields
    ---[X] Arm Meridian
    --[X] Cultivate on your own
    ---[X] Spine Meridian
    -[X] Minor Actions
    --[X] Spend a little time with your 'bodyguards. You should at least know what they can do in a fight
    --[X] Xiulan's family apparently wants to talk to you, you should probably see to that
    --[X] Spend some time with Zeqing, you should try to better understand the snow woman, so that you don't end up offending her
    [X] Plan Ling's Eleven
    -[X] market pills: relevant ones
    -[X] rare pills : highsun
    -[X] Grinning Moon blessing: AE
    -[X] Train at the vent with Su Ling
    --[X] Meridian : Spine
    --[X] Work on formations with Li Suyin, working on a project with your friend will be fun
    -[X] Do a favor for Fu Xiang
    --[X] Three
    -[X] Train with Meizhen
    --[X] FSA
    --[X] Use Windblown Snowfield for FSA site.
    --[X] Meizhen held something back in your last conversation. Press her on it, it seemed that she had some idea that might allow them to stay together
    -[X] Explore and Train with Golden Fields
    --[X] TRF
    --[X] Xiulan's family apparently wants to talk to you, you should probably see to that
    -[X] Cultivate on your own
    --[X] Meridian : Arm
    -[X] Spend further time around Cai Renxiang, try to get into her head a little, and see what the girl is really like
    -[X] Spend some time with Zeqing, you should try to better understand the snow woman, so that you don't end up offending her
    [X] Plan AE is Forbidden
    -[X] Resources
    --[X] Purchased and used: Vigorous Sapling (2rs); 2nd level wood pill (6rs); Channel Cleansing Pill (2rs); Heavy Rains Pill (10rs), Bear Marrow Elixir (4rs), Bear's Heartsblood Elixir (10rs), White Hart Elixir (6rs), Steady Growth Pill (8rs), Sturdy Oak Pill (18rs)
    --[X] Used from Inventory: Highsun Pill, 3 Red Spirit Stones; 1 Yellow Spirit Stone (Total cost: 69rs, 1ys, 1 Highsun Pill)
    --[X] Overflow to physical
    --[X] EPC Bonus to Fleeting Zypher
    -[X] Main Actions
    --[X] Train at the vent with Su Ling
    ---[X] Thousand Ring Fortress
    ---[X] Work on formations with Li Suyin, working on a project with your friend will be fun
    --[X] Take a job
    ---[X] Passion Fruit Collection
    --[X] Train with Meizhen
    ---[X] Arm Meridian
    ---[X] Meizhen held something back in your last conversation. Press her on it, it seemed that she had some idea that might allow them to stay together
    --[X] Explore and Train with Golden Fields
    --[X] Cultivate on your own
    ---[X] Spine Meridian
    -[X] Minor Actions
    --[X] Spend a little time with your 'bodyguards. You should at least know what they can do in a fight
    --[X] Xiulan's family apparently wants to talk to you, you should probably see to that
    --[X] Spend some time with Zeqing, you should try to better understand the snow woman, so that you don't end up offending her
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Adhoc vote count started by Codex on Dec 2, 2017 at 2:29 PM, finished with 366 posts and 62 votes.
  • [X] Plan Meridians are Dorks.
    -[X] market pills: relevant ones
    -[X] rare pills : none
    -[X] Overflow: Physical
    -[X] Grinning Moon blessing : FZ
    -[X] Train at the vent with Su Ling
    --[X] Meridian : arm
    --[X] Share Growing Caverns for Su Ling and Li Suyin after getting Meizhen's OK. Ask them to keep an eye out for Wood sites if possible.
    -[X] Take a job
    --[X] Passion Fruit Collection
    -[X] Train with Meizhen
    --[X] TRF
    --[X] Meizhen held something back in your last conversation. Press her on it, it seemed that she had some idea that might allow them to stay together
    --[X] Has she found any wood site? If so, is she looking for any sites in particular for trade for knowing its location?
    -[X] Explore and Train with Golden Fields
    --[X] FSA
    --[X] Use Windblown Snowfield for FSA site.
    -[X] Cultivate on your own
    --[X] Meridian : spine
    --[X] Spend a little time with your 'bodyguards. You should at least know what they can do in a fight
    -[X] Spend further time around Cai Renxiang, try to get into her head a little, and see what the girl is really like
    -[X] Xiulan's family apparently wants to talk to you, you should probably see to that
    -[X] Spend some time with Zeqing, you should try to better understand the snow woman, so that you don't end up offending her
    [X] Plan Forbidden Forests, Forgotten Paths
    -[X] Resources
    --[X] Purchased and used: Vigorous Sapling (2rs); 2nd level wood pill (6rs); 1st level earth pill (2rs); 2nd level earth pill (6rs); Channel Cleansing Pill (2rs); Heavy Rains Pill (10rs)
    --[X] Used from Inventory: 3 Red Spirit Stones; 1 Yellow Spirit Stone (Total cost 31rs and 1ys)
    --[X] Overflow to physical
    --[X] EPC Bonus to Fleeting Zypher
    -[X] Main Actions
    --[X] Train at the vent with Su Ling
    ---[X] Thousand Ring Fortress
    ---[X] Work on formations with Li Suyin, working on a project with your friend will be fun
    --[X] Take a job
    ---[X] Passion Fruit Collection
    --[X] Train with Meizhen
    ---[X] Abyssal Exhalation
    ---[X] Meizhen held something back in your last conversation. Press her on it, it seemed that she had some idea that might allow them to stay together
    ----[X] Has Meizhen stumbled on any wood sites?
    --[X] Explore and Train with Golden Fields
    ---[X] Arm Meridian
    --[X] Cultivate on your own
    ---[X] Spine Meridian
    -[X] Minor Actions
    --[X] Spend a little time with your 'bodyguards. You should at least know what they can do in a fight
    --[X] Xiulan's family apparently wants to talk to you, you should probably see to that
    --[X] Spend some time with Zeqing, you should try to better understand the snow woman, so that you don't end up offending her
    [X] Plan Ling's Eleven
    -[X] market pills: relevant ones
    -[X] rare pills : highsun
    -[X] Grinning Moon blessing: AE
    -[X] Train at the vent with Su Ling
    --[X] Meridian : spine
    --[X] Work on formations with Li Suyin, working on a project with your friend will be fun
    -[X] Do a favor for Fu Xiang
    --[X] Three
    -[X] Train with Meizhen
    --[X] FSA
    --[X] Use Windblown Snowfield for FSA site.
    --[X] Meizhen held something back in your last conversation. Press her on it, it seemed that she had some idea that might allow them to stay together
    -[X] Explore and Train with Golden Fields
    --[X] TRF
    --[X] Xiulan's family apparently wants to talk to you, you should probably see to that
    -[X] Cultivate on your own
    --[X] Meridian : arm
    -[X] Spend further time around Cai Renxiang, try to get into her head a little, and see what the girl is really like
    -[X] Spend some time with Zeqing, you should try to better understand the snow woman, so that you don't end up offending her
    [X] Plan Meridians are Dorks.
    -[X] market pills: relevant ones
    -[X] rare pills : none
    -[X] Grinning Moon blessing : FZ
    -[X] Train at the vent with Su Ling
    --[X] Meridian : spine
    --[X] Share Growing Caverns for Su Ling and Li Suyin after getting Meizhen's OK. Ask them to keep an eye out for Wood sites if possible.
    -[X] Take a job
    --[X] Passion Fruit Collection
    -[X] Train with Meizhen
    --[X] TRF
    --[X] Meizhen held something back in your last conversation. Press her on it, it seemed that she had some idea that might allow them to stay together
    -[X] Explore and Train with Golden Fields
    --[X] FSA
    --[X] Use Windblown Snowfield for FSA site.
    -[X] Cultivate on your own
    --[X] Meridian : arm
    --[X] Spend a little time with your 'bodyguards. You should at least know what they can do in a fight
    -[X] Spend further time around Cai Renxiang, try to get into her head a little, and see what the girl is really like
    -[X] Xiulan's family apparently wants to talk to you, you should probably see to that
    -[X] Spend some time with Zeqing, you should try to better understand the snow woman, so that you don't end up offending her
    [X] Plan Forbidden Forests, Forgotten Paths
    -[X] Resources
    --[X] Purchased and used: Vigorous Sapling (2rs); 2nd level wood pill (6rs); 1st level earth pill (2rs); 2nd level earth pill (6rs); Channel Cleansing Pill (2rs); Heavy Rains Pill (10rs)
    --[X] Used from Inventory: 3 Red Spirit Stones; 1 Yellow Spirit Stone (Total cost 31rs and 1ys)
    --[X] Overflow to physical
    --[X] EPC Bonus to Fleeting Zypher
    -[X] Main Actions
    --[X] Train at the vent with Su Ling
    ---[X] Thousand Ring Fortress
    ---[X] Work on formations with Li Suyin, working on a project with your friend will be fun
    --[X] Take a job
    ---[X] Passion Fruit Collection
    --[X] Train with Meizhen
    ---[X] Abyssal Exhalation
    ---[X] Meizhen held something back in your last conversation. Press her on it, it seemed that she had some idea that might allow them to stay together
    --[X] Explore and Train with Golden Fields
    ---[X] Arm Meridian
    --[X] Cultivate on your own
    ---[X] Spine Meridian
    -[X] Minor Actions
    --[X] Spend a little time with your 'bodyguards. You should at least know what they can do in a fight
    --[X] Xiulan's family apparently wants to talk to you, you should probably see to that
    --[X] Spend some time with Zeqing, you should try to better understand the snow woman, so that you don't end up offending her
Click to expand...
 
Anyways, I recall seeing a mention in this thread that we can't use more than one music art at the same time... yet. Basically it suggested that Ling Qi can learn to use multiple music arts at the same time.
 
TheLastOne said:
And that's just not a good investment. Music Arts aren't really very compatible with EACH OTHER, you can only really get the passives playing nice since you can only play one song at a time. So I don't really see the bard build being a valid build long term; it's mechanically fiddly in a way I suspect isn't going to develop in a rewarding way and we'll regret in the long term.
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Yes, like the way that we have to stop playing to do anything else - until we gained the ability to extend, or the way we can't attack while playing - until we gained flute attacks.

The simple matter is that getting good with music requires actual investment. Yes, it does have inherent limitations, but it makes up for that by providing really strong sustained effects. The better we get with it, however, the more we can do with it. Right now, the only thing we've done with music is train FVM. It's no wonder it's falling off now.

Yes, right now it's a good idea to have a bunch of non-music buffs to stack with it, but I imagine that later on we'll be able to do more at once with music.
 
Kaja Rainbow said:
Also weighing in on the build debate. Qi is more interested in focusing on music than archery thus I support gradually phasing archery out in favor of music. AE can stay for the summons for the moment.

Sure maybe music isn't as good thematically for stealthy ganking but I'm fairly sure we can get a music attack art that lets us punch a single person in the soul.
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Doesn't fix the fundamental issue that we can't play two songs as once yet you're partly paying for persistence with music. Switching archery arts is natural.
 
OK, I'm adding a precision to use the wind site in my plan for FSA. If we want decent odds of FSA5 in 2 actions and not 3, we need that.
 
Argent storm looks pretty impressive, just not for us. I would rather spend actions trying to find the last argent art than trying to upgrade Storm.
 
TheLastOne said:
Doesn't fix the fundamental issue that we can't play two songs as once yet you're partly paying for persistence with music. Switching archery arts is natural.
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We can't play simultaneous full songs yet but I think the fact that we can layer in instrument based sound attacks alongside appropriate arts makes it a likely next step. As well as giving us a decent avenue of attack that couples with FVM use.

yrsillar said:
-Instruments wielded by the user may be used to make sound based melee attacks at up to ten meters range. These attacks may be used in conjunction with appropriate arts without interrupting the melody. DV equals manipulation or expression, whichever is higher.
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There's also the below, which makes me think acting with plans to move focus from music would be a mistake.

yrsillar said:
Special Element, Music unlocked. Music based arts are no longer affected by sound based defences or deafness as long as at least one meridian is attuned to Music.

Specialty II Woodwind Instruments, unlocked. When using your specialty you are treated as being one cultivation level higher in clashes.
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Adhoc vote count started by Grigori on Dec 1, 2017 at 5:55 PM, finished with 41457 posts and 12 votes.
  • [X] Plan Meridians are Dorks.
    -[X] market pills: relevant ones
    -[X] rare pills : none
    -[X] Grinning Moon blessing : FZ
    -[X] Train at the vent with Su Ling
    --[X] Meridian : Spine
    --[X] Spend a little time with your 'bodyguards. You should at least know what they can do in a fight
    --[X] Share Growing Caverns for Su Ling and Li Suyin after getting Meizhen's OK. Ask them to keep an eye out for Wood sites if possible.
    -[X] Take a job
    --[X] Passion Fruit Collection
    -[X] Train with Meizhen
    --[X] TRF
    --[X] Meizhen held something back in your last conversation. Press her on it, it seemed that she had some idea that might allow them to stay together
    -[X] Explore and Train with Golden Fields
    --[X] FSA
    --[X] Use Windblown Snowfield for FSA site.
    -[X] Cultivate on your own
    --[X] Meridian : Arm
    -[X] Spend further time around Cai Renxiang, try to get into her head a little, and see what the girl is really like
    -[X] Xiulan's family apparently wants to talk to you, you should probably see to that
    -[X] Spend some time with Zeqing, you should try to better understand the snow woman, so that you don't end up offending her
    [X] Plan Forbidden Forests, Forgotten Paths
    -[X] Resources
    --[X] Purchased and used: Vigorous Sapling (2rs); 2nd level wood pill (6rs); 1st level earth pill (2rs); 2nd level earth pill (6rs); Channel Cleansing Pill (2rs); Heavy Rains Pill (10rs)
    --[X] Used from Inventory: 3 Red Spirit Stones; 1 Yellow Spirit Stone (Total cost 31rs and 1ys)
    --[X] Overflow to physical
    --[X] EPC Bonus to Fleeting Zypher
    -[X] Main Actions
    --[X] Train at the vent with Su Ling
    ---[X] Thousand Ring Fortress
    ---[X] Work on formations with Li Suyin, working on a project with your friend will be fun
    --[X] Take a job
    ---[X] Passion Fruit Collection
    --[X] Train with Meizhen
    ---[X] Abyssal Exhalation
    ---[X] Meizhen held something back in your last conversation. Press her on it, it seemed that she had some idea that might allow them to stay together
    --[X] Explore and Train with Golden Fields
    ---[X] Arm Meridian
    --[X] Cultivate on your own
    ---[X] Spine Meridian
    -[X] Minor Actions
    --[X] Spend a little time with your 'bodyguards. You should at least know what they can do in a fight
    --[X] Xiulan's family apparently wants to talk to you, you should probably see to that
    --[X] Spend some time with Zeqing, you should try to better understand the snow woman, so that you don't end up offending her
    [X] Plan AE is Forbidden
    -[X] Resources
    --[X] Purchased and used: Vigorous Sapling (2rs); 2nd level wood pill (6rs); Channel Cleansing Pill (2rs); Heavy Rains Pill (10rs), Bear Marrow Elixir (4rs), Bear's Heartsblood Elixir (10rs), White Hart Elixir (6rs), Steady Growth Pill (8rs), Sturdy Oak Pill (18rs)
    --[X] Used from Inventory: Highsun Pill, 3 Red Spirit Stones; 1 Yellow Spirit Stone (Total cost: 69rs, 1ys, 1 Highsun Pill)
    --[X] Overflow to physical
    --[X] EPC Bonus to Fleeting Zypher
    -[X] Main Actions
    --[X] Train at the vent with Su Ling
    ---[X] Thousand Ring Fortress
    ---[X] Work on formations with Li Suyin, working on a project with your friend will be fun
    --[X] Take a job
    ---[X] Passion Fruit Collection
    --[X] Train with Meizhen
    ---[X] Arm Meridian
    ---[X] Meizhen held something back in your last conversation. Press her on it, it seemed that she had some idea that might allow them to stay together
    --[X] Explore and Train with Golden Fields
    --[X] Cultivate on your own
    ---[X] Spine Meridian
    -[X] Minor Actions
    --[X] Spend a little time with your 'bodyguards. You should at least know what they can do in a fight
    --[X] Xiulan's family apparently wants to talk to you, you should probably see to that
    --[X] Spend some time with Zeqing, you should try to better understand the snow woman, so that you don't end up offending her
Click to expand...
 
Grigori said:
We can't play simultaneous full songs yet but I think the fact that we can layer in instrument based sound attacks alongside appropriate arts makes it a likely next step. As well as giving us a decent avenue of attack that couples with FVM use.



There's also the below, which makes me think acting with plans to move focus from music would be a mistake.
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Click to shrink...

Eh, I'm just fundamentally finding music getting more and more fiddly. It's like our support specialty. It sounds nice, and then we discover that it's murder on yrsillar to actaully have battles with enough enemies and allies for it to be a valid build.

This is looking like it will be the same song and dance again, and we really can't afford that; we're already getting punished for our specialty, we can't also get punished for our focus.
 
If we are training FSA at the windblown fields, shouldn't we join the Zequing minor to it? After all that site is at her mountain.
 
TheLastOne said:
Eh, I'm just fundamentally finding music getting more and more fiddly. It's like our support specialty. It sounds nice, and then we discover that it's murder on yrsillar to actaully have battles with enough enemies and allies for it to be a valid build.

This is looking like it will be the same song and dance again, and we really can't afford that; we're already getting punished for our specialty, we can't also get punished for our focus.
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Click to shrink...
He is redoing the battle system so that will not be a problem either.
 
TheLastOne said:
Eh, I'm just fundamentally finding music getting more and more fiddly. It's like our support specialty. It sounds nice, and then we discover that it's murder on yrsillar to actaully have battles with enough enemies and allies for it to be a valid build.

This is looking like it will be the same song and dance again, and we really can't afford that; we're already getting punished for our specialty, we can't also get punished for our focus.
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We aren't getting punished for our speciality? Yrsillar might have issues with the combat system but never hesitated to always have bigass battles.

I am also not sure why you'd think "it would be the same" about music, and not about archery. Both are fiddly to some measure, but music is getting less so.
 
[X] Plan Forbidden Forests, Forgotten Paths

Weighing in on the whole build focus thing, the main reason why we ended up like this is because we couldn't really choose our build. We were handed a good music art from the very beginning, and from then on scrambled to build around that while trying to keep other options open, because a music build is highly limited, especially in an environment where duels are common.

Personally? I think trying to make what we have work is better than trying to hammer ourselves into a particular hole. This is our cultivation, our build, and we should strive to make something coherent out of all of it, instead of denying or decaying chunks of our build. If we can't make archery and music work, then we find a way to make it work, rather than try to phase out one or the other. Maybe we could commission a flying flute, maybe we could find some kind of shadow-clone art that lets us shoot and play. The possibilities are endless, and I want to see this cluttered mess of a build grow without losing parts of itself.
 
Vanguard_D said:
He is redoing the battle system so that will not be a problem either.
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Click to shrink...

Sure, but 'redoing it' and 'it actually being fixed' are different things, even for professional game designers. And any fix introduced is likely to introduce new problems or unintended issues, so forgive me for playing the game we have, rather then some theortical game we might one day have.

And the game we have is one where we took a serious mechanical misstep early on. That's understandable, we couldn't see it coming. Literally couldn't, because even the basics were a mystery to us back then.

We can with music, so if we screw up here we really don't have anyone to blame but ourselves.
 
TheLastOne said:
Sure, but 'redoing it' and 'it actually being fixed' are different things, even for professional game designers. And any fix introduced is likely to introduce new problems or unintended issues, so forgive me for playing the game we have, rather then some theortical game we might one day have.

And the game we have is one where we took a serious mechanical misstep early on. That's understandable, we couldn't see it coming. Literally couldn't, because even the basics were a mystery to us back then.

We can with music, so if we screw up here we really don't have anyone to blame but ourselves.
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Ok got this explained to me. You simply do not like music and support build and will paint everything about that as not working or not effective in the long run, going as far as saying that it was a mistake from the start... Even if it has worked really well as recent as the last update.

You then make the sudden leap of logic that what works now will not work later even when pointed out that the weaknesses you want to exist wont be there forever. I guess this is just you bias showing up again so I will decide that you are wrong on this given the proof that we have and move on to better things for now.
 
We're locked into a support talent, which means any plan that prioritizes being a DPS is kinda eh, either in ignoring the character sheet people voted for, which is meh for persistence and consequences, and in failing to match to our actual talents, which just hurts us. Ling Qi also has a lot of emotional investment in the music, while archery is a thing that is fun. To that end, sunsetting FVM in favor of archery is terrible, though I don't think many would seriously consider this.

Now, a holdout is good. If we can find archery arts that play well with what we have for our other stuff, I don't mind keeping archery up to dateish, not focusing on it, and only going for arts that fit with what we do better to some extent.

Of everything we have, AE is the easiest to drop for future training. Its dice don't mesh with what we do well, and its first technique has anti-synergy with FVM. We're going in too many directions, as people, and now literally the person we paid to tell us how to train, have reiterated constantly. Stopping means stopping now.

[X] Plan AE is Forbidden


TheLastOne said:
Sure, but 'redoing it' and 'it actually being fixed' are different things, even for professional game designers. And any fix introduced is likely to introduce new problems or unintended issues, so forgive me for playing the game we have, rather then some theortical game we might one day have.
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A redo doesn't mean that new problems won't appear, but generally means that known problems won't persist in the same ways. This, in turn, means that there's no reason to prioritize the system we have, and in fact that flaws or weaknesses in the current system are worse than useless for basing plans for a new system around. If someone's designing a system to avoid doing Y, worrying that the system will do Y is probably one of the few things least likely to be a concern.
 
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