The easy IC reason is that neither Starfleet nor members of the Council support another aux yard, therefore it doesn't appear as an option. Perhaps it finds no Council support because the benefits of that yard would go to only one species, whereas N'Gir's proposal is pork-barrel money for everyone.

N'Gir's proposal disrupts member fleet build schedules and takes up their berths. That's why it costs pp. It makes zero sense for a member world to support this over a new aux yard unless the Councillor doesn't want their own fleet to expand. Which might explain why the Caitians are backing this incidentally.
 
The idea was that once the deficit was caught up by a surge in auxiliary construction, you wouldn't need to use the auxiliary berth for transports, the members would be able to keep up a "maintenance rate" of transport builds.

If you turn this down, I'll probably have to add Aux shipyards back into the Snakepit, but I'll probably need to find some way of representing the cost of doing it all in-house.

Could you also separate out that cost as an option in case we want to use dual-purpose yards instead of aux yards?
e: And berth expansions for our existing yard at Amarkia.

N'Gir's proposal disrupts member fleet build schedules and takes up their berths. That's why it costs pp. It makes zero sense for a member world to support this over a new aux yard unless the Councillor doesn't want their own fleet to expand. Which might explain why the Caitians are backing this incidentally.

See Oneiros post above.
 
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The idea was that once the deficit was caught up by a surge in auxiliary construction, you wouldn't need to use the auxiliary berth for transports, the members would be able to keep up a "maintenance rate" of transport builds.

If you turn this down, I'll probably have to add Aux shipyards back into the Snakepit, but I'll probably need to find some way of representing the cost of doing it all in-house.
If you do put it back into the snakepit. I guarantee you that everyone is going to capitalize on it to build as many Aux Shipyards as we can as well as some new berths.
 
Could you also separate out that cost as an option in case we want to use dual-purpose yards instead of aux yards?



See Oneiros post above.

I guess I don't understand why there would be a problem with doing things in house. Except for the cost of building new berths, of course. You would think member worlds would be happy we aren't bumping their builds for more freighters. I don't get it. I might just abstain from this vote.
 
Does any one have ANY in-universe reason to think we can't buy more Aux yards?

ANYTHING?

Budget restrictions of the auxiliary department? Though I admit that is a somewhat flimsy reason since I see no reason why a campaign for a new shipyard wouldn't include the raising of additional money...


And in regards to the plans. I do agree that the Federation could use such a central peacekeeping force but by god why does it have to be such a direct part of Starfleet? Just who in the world looked at Starfleet and though - yeah let's give them even more responsibilities, power and duties? Meanwhile I am mostly ambivalent about the transport plan - having more ships would be nice but not only do I feel like this plan ignores the rest of our auxiliary ship that also need expansion but I also don't really like supporting the development faction over the expansionist, especially when expanding the Federation offers so many benefits.
 
Someone please draw Sulu literally flipping over a cart full of apples with N'Gir burried under an apple pile.

So I don't have to :V
 
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Short-term patches that don't actually fix the real systemic issue are in opposition to the ideals of Starfleet, because one of those ideals is not being stupid.
I think that's a bit unfair. There's a difference between things that are wrong in the moral sense of 'violates our positive ideals,' versus things that are merely a bad idea.

For example, it would be a bad idea for us to stop building regular fleet ships in order to focus fanatically on maximizing our Explorer Corps. But it wouldn't be contrary to the ideals of Starfleet to do so.

Last I checked write ins are always possible in the Snakepit. It's just that the list is the things the Council is already considering anyway.
Write-ins at Snakepit are extremely problematic because Oneiros is the only one who can decide what an option costs- and the Snakepit is all about budgeting.
 
The idea was that once the deficit was caught up by a surge in auxiliary construction, you wouldn't need to use the auxiliary berth for transports, the members would be able to keep up a "maintenance rate" of transport builds.

If you turn this down, I'll probably have to add Aux shipyards back into the Snakepit, but I'll probably need to find some way of representing the cost of doing it all in-house.

Actually... I get that the members want Starfleet to be transport neutral. So does Starfleet.

This is in fact why Starfleet asked for an auxiliary shipyard dedicated to auxiliary ship construction for its own purposes. However, because the Federation is currently in a major expansion phase that auxiliary shipyard can't keep up. That's why, when Federation members have free berths at shipyards Starfleet asks 'mind if we use it for a freighter?'

However, Starfleet also knows that the members are expanding their fleets, including cargo shipping. That's why they ask instead of demand.

If the Council wants Starfleet to be transport neutral and it isn't possible for the current ship production capacity to do so without screwing up construction schedules across the Federation the obvious answer is more capacity.

And it doesn't really matter to Starfleet if that means more docks for themselves or another or expanded auxiliary yard dedicated to Starfleet. Besides, it's not as if Starfleet has been opposed to sharing berths with members of the Federation, right?
 
Budget restrictions of the auxiliary department? Though I admit that is a somewhat flimsy reason since I see no reason why a campaign for a new shipyard wouldn't include the raising of additional money...
Unless the restrictions are in the federation charter that's a cost, not something that stops us.

We're playing as Commander, Starfleet. We can reallocate funds if needed.
 
Budget restrictions of the auxiliary department? Though I admit that is a somewhat flimsy reason since I see no reason why a campaign for a new shipyard wouldn't include the raising of additional money...

And in regards to the plans. I do agree that the Federation could use such a central peacekeeping force but by god why does it have to be such a direct part of Starfleet? Just who in the world looked at Starfleet and though - yeah let's give them even more responsibilities, power and duties?
I can actually sympathize with the Developmercantile point of view on this. Who would run the peacekeepers except Starfleet? Without Starfleet, they'd have no way to get where they need to be and very limited resources for accomplishing their tasks.

It would be fair to categorize these Federation peacekeepers, much like the old pre-WWI British Army, as "a projectile to be fired by the Navy." As such, folding them into the Starfleet seems a reasonable course of action, IF the Federation is to have them at all.
 
[][PEACE] Upset the apple cart
[][CARGO] Avoid
the above is the best option for us to keep political power as it minimizes the power of the development faction.

[X][PEACE] Upset the apple cart
[X][CARGO] Agree
this is my favored option though because i think that completely rejecting the president's plans are likely to lead to her getting hard on us. we dont want that. and we actually really do want to build up our transport fleet.
 
Unless the restrictions are in the federation charter that's a cost, not something that stops us.

We're playing as Commander, Starfleet. We can reallocate funds if needed.
Can we? We don't seem to have any in-story direct control over the budgets for auxiliary commands like Starfleet Engineering, Starfleet Medical and its hospital ships, or Starfleet Logistics.
 
[][PEACE] Upset the apple cart

As much as I want to see the Starfleet Marines become a reality, I'd rather not do it by pissing off the Pacifist Coalition.

[][CARGO] Agree

Short term pain for long term gain. Those 50pp/y is going to hurt a lot but it's worth it.
 
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IF the Federation is to have them at all.
The Federation already has them from member worlds. We just don't need them as a distinct organization under the purview of Starfleet. Having them as memberworld assets we can call up in times of need is just fine.

Frankly, I'm surprised this issue came up, because, aside from the Syndicate eradication, when have we needed peacekeepers?
 
Can we? We don't seem to have any in-story direct control over the budgets for auxiliary commands like Starfleet Engineering, Starfleet Medical and its hospital ships, or Starfleet Logistics.

We do have some control. The new hospital ships were expected to number 6, but a later shift of resources from Starfleet general to Starfleet Medical changed that to 10.
 
The Federation already has them from member worlds. We just don't need them as a distinct organization under the purview of Starfleet. Having them as memberworld assets we can call up in times of need is just fine.

Frankly, I'm surprised this issue came up, because, aside from the Syndicate eradication, when have we needed peacekeepers?

We used MACO's when we were briefly occupying some Licori colonies. And they might have become necessary with the Caldonians or Fiiral if things had gone differently.
 
I know it will piss off The President but she has no idea what the hell she is doing. Her current agenda seems to be building up Political Capital for reelection for her own party. And not doing what is in the interest of the Federation. At this point I am starting to wonder if we should ask to start a Corruption investigation of the President.
 
Can we? We don't seem to have any in-story direct control over the budgets for auxiliary commands like Starfleet Engineering, Starfleet Medical and its hospital ships, or Starfleet Logistics.
We, the players, don't have direct control OOC.

Commander, Starfleet does. Remember when we moved additional funds to Starfleet Medical? Twice even?
 
[X][PEACE] Upset the apple cart
[X][CARGO] Agree

I agree with Briefvoice. 150 pp is dumb but worth it to not deal with logistics for the next decade or so.
 
We, the players, don't have direct control OOC.

Commander, Starfleet does. Remember when we moved additional funds to Starfleet Medical? Twice even?
There may well be political constraints on that kind of thing. Like, the president of the United States has vast discretionary powers, but has to negotiate with Congress to get reallocations of budget money.

The Federation already has them from member worlds. We just don't need them as a distinct organization under the purview of Starfleet. Having them as memberworld assets we can call up in times of need is just fine.
I'm not saying we need 'federal' peacekeepers; I don't think we do. My point is that if we DID have them they'd almost have to be at least an auxiliary branch of Starfleet because it'll be impossible for them to function without coordination with Starfleet and intense support FROM Starfleet.

Frankly, I'm surprised this issue came up, because, aside from the Syndicate eradication, when have we needed peacekeepers?
They'd arguably have helped with the Caldonian crisis, and in handling Gammon during the Licori War, and in dealing with any future colonial crises.

Mostly on the basis that then I never need to see transport talk again.
I am pretty sure that is a deeply counterproductive strategy that will result in you not seeing much except "transport talk" for years.

I know it will piss off The President but she has no idea what the hell she is doing. Her current agenda seems to be building up Political Capital for reelection for her own party. And not doing what is in the interest of the Federation. At this point I am starting to wonder if we should ask to start a Corruption investigation of the President.
To be fair, both the freighters and the peacekeepers ARE arguably in the Federation's best interests... from someone else's point of view. We've had people in this very thread argue that the Federation needs peacekeepers, and that making Starfleet "transport-neutral" is a good idea. And I'm pretty sure none of the questgoers are deliberately making bad political decisions for personal gain, since I'm not clear on what form that gain would even take.
 
Can we? We don't seem to have any in-story direct control over the budgets for auxiliary commands like Starfleet Engineering, Starfleet Medical and its hospital ships, or Starfleet Logistics.
... Yet.
[X][PEACE] Upset the apple cart

As much as I want to see the Starfleet Marines become a reality, I'd rather not do it by pissing off the Pacifist Coalition.

[X][CARGO] Agree

Short term pain for long term gain. Those 50pp/y is going to hurt a lot but it's worth it.

[X][PEACE] Upset the apple cart
[X][CARGO] Agree

Mostly on the basis that then I never need to see transport talk again.

It's only a short term fix.

The fleet will grow. This build wave is not long enough to cover for the inevitable growth, and additionally restricts the growth of the Federation's strategic reserves.

We will end up revisiting this in ten years.
 
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