Well, the thing is, the 2mt berths are cheaper than expanding our 1mt shipyards so it's basically like buying a 1mt berth for now.
e: We could prototype the Kepler in it v0v.
e: We could prototype the Kepler in it v0v.
To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)
- Thread starter OneirosTheWriter
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- Sci-Fi
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- star trek exploration fully automated luxury gay space communism top level canon (canon) #hashtagcontent all-encompassing space amoeba cardassian boy bands cardassian magical girls darkest bureaucracy debate makes the qm cackle like palpatine hoh is an empire quest it has to be foreign infiltrators more ships ship happens singers delenda est starfleet this is not an empire quest ur waifu is collective?
- Location
- Austin, TX
If we're getting Heavy Industry, the Cruiser berth is definitely worth it. I'm for it.
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pbluekan
Somethin's Fucky ...
- Location
- Trumpistan
Count me in for that. Every extra berth we have at UP just increases the value of he HIP even more, and that 2mt berth can either be left open for prototyping as Simon suggested or used below it's size range.
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Or as @Nix says below, a mining colony is certainly worth it.
Frankly, I just don't really see much benefit in sitting on the points.
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- Location
- somewhere
Another mining colony. We are about equally limited by BR and SR and MWCO offers the opportunity to trade BR for SR. Over the years it has existed we have traded an average of something like 40 BR per year, which means we could make use of something like another 3-4 BR mines for trading and then having enough BR to make use of the extra SR traded for.
Also even in a conservative calculation the pp and rp is at least close to being worth the cost even without considering the resources: We always have bought research colonies at the first opportunity, even when they only offered 5rp, so 2rp per year are worth at least 3.2 pp. If 1 pp per year wasn't worth at least 3 pp that would imply an absurdly high effective interest rate and we wouldn't be making many of the longer term decisions we do make. For instance new shipyards would effectively be about twice as expensive as expansions due to construction time. This is a lower bound, personally I'd value the pp income at 12pp and the rp income at 9pp.
I'll tentatively support the berth but mostly I'm neutral on it.
What do we want to buy next snakepit?
3 diplo at 60pp
EC VA at 25pp
Ferasa shipyard at 22pp
Intel Assets at 70pp?
Academy Expansion at 45pp?
At least 2x Mining Colony at 16pp?
2mt berth at 11pp?
That would be 249pp, which I feel is about a correct low estimate unless we make a big boo-boo at the Gaeni ratification. It looks to me like we'd probably buy the 2mt berth anyway as the comparable Amarkia shipyard would cost 33pp which is exactly the difference between Ferasa+2mt and Amarkia.
So count me in I guess.
What do we want to buy next snakepit?
3 diplo at 60pp
EC VA at 25pp
Ferasa shipyard at 22pp
Intel Assets at 70pp?
Academy Expansion at 45pp?
At least 2x Mining Colony at 16pp?
2mt berth at 11pp?
That would be 249pp, which I feel is about a correct low estimate unless we make a big boo-boo at the Gaeni ratification. It looks to me like we'd probably buy the 2mt berth anyway as the comparable Amarkia shipyard would cost 33pp which is exactly the difference between Ferasa+2mt and Amarkia.
So count me in I guess.
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- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Another advantage is, as noted, that there are a lot of other people with ships like that out there. If we ever want to work on an 'alien' (i.e. non-Starfleet) heavy cruiser or light capital ship in a Starfleet yard, having a two-megaton berth that's sized for heavy cruisers and not allocated to work on our own Excelsiors and Ambassadors would be nice.
I know Oneiros never gave us confirmation that we ever had the option of capturing and towing home that Sydraxian heavy cruiser we disabled at Lora, as I mentioned a post or two ago. But a scenario like that could plausibly occur in the future.
If we're not capped at the limit of the number of colonies we're physically allowed to build in a year, I'd support this. I think we may be capped, though.
I'm not sure I want to keep buying intel assets indefinitely, especially if they wind up costing 70pp. More intel is good, but not infinitely good.
Random Member
Gardener of Human Happiness
- Location
- Behind You
Hmm, I'd rather have another mining colony, but I'm not opposed to the berth.
Remember our Excelsiors have +2D from Lone Ranger, so they're rolling D4+S3 to get there. Unsure if the penalty applies for resolution. Also the A-pattern is L6 not L9, you're thinking the Ambassador.
Yeah I'm not saying it's locked up, it's just a suggestion as to what we might feel were viable purchases.
I would pay 70pp but I might also pay 60pp for the "nothing" of the Engineering command under our direction. I don't think we've ever been left head-scratching at what to spend an additional report on.
We need more engineering ships rather badly too. Hopefully T'Faer will take care of that.
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pbluekan
Somethin's Fucky ...
- Location
- Trumpistan
Why ferasa? Given the HIP's bonus, UP expansion is more valuable (it also gives an additional 1mt berth) for only like 6pp more.
Okay, as per @Nix 's argument and that people don't seem to want the points to go to waste, I am adding the Mica III colony. I picked it because it gives the most br/year of the remaining options.
- Location
- somewhere
We have 6 colony ships, I suppose it depends on whether engineering ships are also required, of which we have 4 not in use in the GBZ. In any case buying too many should just mean some of them finish a bit later, and they can finish up to 50% later and still be in time for the EOY income. When we had a limit specifically for colonies it was 4, so that also suggests it should be fine.
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The idea is to expand repair capabilities in the direction of potential conflicts. Yes, UP Expansion is valuable but expanding the Apinae shipyard or adding yards at Amarkia or Ferasa, are also valuable for different reasons.
There were a lot more people okay with the 2mt berth though.
We're also building two starbases. With 2 engineering ships, we were capped at one colony/starbase/shipyard. With now 4 engineering ships, I don't see us taking on a 4th colony that easily. e: 5? 4 or 5, unsure.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
This.
Basically, we want a situation where we build ships at Utopia Planitia and a few other sites that make it economical to do so (the yard at Vulcan is big enough to arguably be worth it), but where we can repair ships during wartime without disrupting our build schedules too severely. Also, where we don't have to spend three months towing a damaged ship all the way across the Federation to get repair work done after the ship gets damaged fighting in a battle somewhere around Bajor.
- Location
- alphen aan den rijn
Orions 471/500 + 26 = 497/500
Seyek 444/500 + 26 = 470/500
Ashidi 50/100
Hishmeri 50/100
push these i say everything else no real opinion on
Seyek 444/500 + 26 = 470/500
Ashidi 50/100
Hishmeri 50/100
push these i say everything else no real opinion on
- Location
- Austin, TX
[X][COUNCIL] Plan Even More Things and KEPLER
- Request new Starbase I [KBZ – Shrantet III] 25pp for KBZ
- Request new Starbase I [Indoria] 27pp
- Request Mining Colony at Kohl II, 16pp, 25 (30) br & 25 (35) sr /yr, 4 turns
- Request Mining Colony at Mica III, 8pp, 25 (30)br /yr, 4 turns
- Request Mining Colony at Kappa Tau, 8pp, 15 (20) br/yr, 4 turns
- Request Mining Colony at Proxima Eridani, 8pp, 15 (20) br/yr, 4 turns
- Request development of Utopia Planitia, 28pp, (4 turns, gain 1 3mt, 1 1mt berth)
- Request new Shipyard at Ferasa, 22pp, (12 turns, 1 3mt Berth)
- Request new Shipyard at Rigel, 22pp, (12 turns, 1 3mt Berth)
- Request new Shipyard at Indoria, 18pp (12 turns, 1 1mt Berth)
- Request Research Colony at Acacia V, 7pp 5 (7) rp/yr, 4 turns
- Request Mining Colony at Piara V, 8pp, 25 (30) br/yr, 4 turns
- Request Allocation for an Excelsior's resources, one-off-infusion of an Excelsior's cost, 40pp
- Request Academy Development, 40pp (Gain +.5 Officers/Enlisted/Techs throughput)
- Request Start of Science Frigate project, receiving one-off boost of Research Points and go-ahead for some projects, 10pp
- Request new Tech Team to be added to your Ship Design Bureau, [Weapons and Offensive Doctrine] - 20pp
- Request new Tech Team to be added to your Ship Design Bureau, [Starbase and Defensive Doctrine] - 20pp
- Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 20pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) [Ashidi]
- Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 20pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) [The Tauni]
- Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 20pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) [Yan-Ros]
- Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 20pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) [Hishmeri Septs]
- Acquire additional resources for Starfleet Intelligence Operations, 20pp (Will improve ops teams next time they are required
The idea is to expand repair capabilities in the direction of potential conflicts. Yes, UP Expansion is valuable but expanding the Apinae shipyard or adding yards at Amarkia or Ferasa, are also valuable for different reasons.
There were a lot more people okay with the 2mt berth though.
I thought he made a convincing point that BR trades seem to come along every few years, and looking ahead I see we're likely to have empty berths already for the next few years.
Note that both Starbases are being built in orbit around Major Worlds. In fact, both have shipyards. It may be that engineering ships are only required for 'remote' locations without local space industry to support construction.
- Location
- somewhere
I think cargo ships/freighters were a/the major limitation during the Licori crisis, we could have picked a second option but it had a pp cost due to needing to borrow the transport capacity. 2314 we requested 3 colonies, 2 shipyards and a starbase, so 6 options that would have been restricted in 2315 and we were fine. In the worst case a colony will just finish too late for the EOY, while a shipyard expansion would probably be unused in the first year, so it's at worst a wash.
Thors_Alumni
Proud member of Thors Class VII from Liberl
- Location
- Liberl Zemuria.
Having more BR is all well and good but I would much rather have the two megaton berth. We could build the prototype Kepler in it when the time comes.
Eh, overall I don't see much difference, so sure, BR colony is fine. We'll be buying both in the next few years anyway.
- Location
- alphen aan den rijn
personally would have liked more of a push the get some new full members, but that might just be me
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Redhead, we're going to have an avalanche of new members coming in during the next one to three years as it is. Don't wish for more trouble than you can handle.
...
As for the "cruiser berth versus mining colony" issue... I favor the mining colony if we can get a mining colony. But I don't think we can, and if we can't, I favor the cruiser berth.
...
As for the "cruiser berth versus mining colony" issue... I favor the mining colony if we can get a mining colony. But I don't think we can, and if we can't, I favor the cruiser berth.
- Location
- somewhere
We can still do that after requesting it next year. A BR colony is much more likely to allow us to build an extra ship (through trade or otherwise) than a berth, we already have 4 berths open in 2317 under current projections.
No point to this. New full members are banned until 2317.Q4, and since ratification takes some time we're probably getting two automatic rolls inbetween now and then anyway. So that's a minimum of something like +20 to each, likely more like +50. The Orions are guaranteed. The Seyek likely. Risa is possible.
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Berth schedule is in flux. It very much depends when the Heavy Industrial Park completes and to what builds it applies. I can only presume like every single other bonus of its type it only applies to new builds, but that is a presumption not a fact.
Let's say it takes 6 quarters (pessimistic) and applies to new builds, we'd be better off filling up our berths with long builds and only holding off the Excelsiors to 2317.Q4. The mass of Rennies in UP, for example, would add 3 quarters to their build time.
It if takes 4 quarters, we should probably leave berths empty and start them 2317.Q2.
We also have the resources to fill everything but the Apinae berths with only a handful quarters empty here and there. Apinae was intended as a repair yard anyway.
e: It may be time to buy budget in 2317 Snakepit. Really depends on our event incomes too.
Let's say it takes 6 quarters (pessimistic) and applies to new builds, we'd be better off filling up our berths with long builds and only holding off the Excelsiors to 2317.Q4. The mass of Rennies in UP, for example, would add 3 quarters to their build time.
It if takes 4 quarters, we should probably leave berths empty and start them 2317.Q2.
We also have the resources to fill everything but the Apinae berths with only a handful quarters empty here and there. Apinae was intended as a repair yard anyway.
e: It may be time to buy budget in 2317 Snakepit. Really depends on our event incomes too.
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