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Gardener of Human Happiness
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Nash does not discriminate.
To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)
- Thread starter OneirosTheWriter
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[X][ROM] To justify the costs, it is crucial that the Licori end up with a Federation-friendly government
Gadjo
Doka
[x][PRIS] Exchange for the Ked Paddah Prisoners (-5pp from disgruntled Federation members, improved relations with Tartresis and Licori, +25 with Ked Paddah)
[x][ROM] We will put forward our case to the Arcadian people but ultimately we are not colonisers
[x][TALK] Flood the broadcasts
[x][ROM] We will put forward our case to the Arcadian people but ultimately we are not colonisers
[x][TALK] Flood the broadcasts
So I am curious. Suppose instead of the rhetoric about "colonizers" and "self-determination, the Romulan vote had been phrased this way. Same mechanical effect; different phrasing. Would people be voting any differently, or is it the rhetoric that is primarily influencing?
[ ][ROM] Strongest push-back against Romulan interference.
[ ][ROM] Strong push-back against Romulan interference.
[ ][ROM] Modest push-back against Romulan interference.
[ ][ROM] No push-back against Romulan interference.
[ ][ROM] Strongest push-back against Romulan interference.
[ ][ROM] Strong push-back against Romulan interference.
[ ][ROM] Modest push-back against Romulan interference.
[ ][ROM] No push-back against Romulan interference.
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- Pronouns
- They/Them
[x][PRIS] Exchange for the Ked Paddah Prisoners (-5pp from disgruntled Federation members, improved relations with Tartresis and Licori, +25 with Ked Paddah)
[x][ROM] We will put forward our case to the Arcadian people but ultimately we are not colonisers
[x][TALK] Flood the broadcasts
Honestly? I'd find even a Federation-friendly Licori government distasteful in the extreme. Their government structure is fundamentally repugnant and contrary to ours. I'm happy to wash our hands of them and pass them over to the Romulans or leave them as neutrals, because I honestly don't think the amount of effort we'd have to put in to get them to be eligible for affiliate status is worth it.
[x][ROM] We will put forward our case to the Arcadian people but ultimately we are not colonisers
[x][TALK] Flood the broadcasts
Honestly? I'd find even a Federation-friendly Licori government distasteful in the extreme. Their government structure is fundamentally repugnant and contrary to ours. I'm happy to wash our hands of them and pass them over to the Romulans or leave them as neutrals, because I honestly don't think the amount of effort we'd have to put in to get them to be eligible for affiliate status is worth it.
- Location
- Germany
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- He/Him
Please clarify - when you word it like you do, do you mean to imply that the FDS does NOT emphasize Federation values and does NOT provide geopolitical and historical data?
aeqnai
Nerdy Homu
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- She/Her
I'd... probably either have voted the same way, or gone for:
[ ][ROM] No push-pack against Romulan interference.
I Just don't think it's worth our time. The Romulans say they'll keep the mentats in check? Then we're done. We have succeeded in what we came here to do. And if the mentats cause another problem, we don't have to face a mess of a minor power that's utterly incapable of self-policing, we can just go to Athos and lay our demands with a respected peer who is now responsible for them.
I get we had friendly funtimes we the Romulans during the biophage and there's an air of detente with the Romulans, but we should not consider them our friends or even allies. There is quite likely a significant portion of their political class that sees the Federation as something to remove, to say nothing of their extensive Deep State.
I do not think we should be 'fine' with handing them anything easily, especially the superscience madmen, especially since they don't seem very interested in subjugating other species. Why the Licori?
[X][PRIS] Exchange for the Ked Paddah Prisoners (-5pp from disgruntled Federation members, improved relations with Tartresis and Licori, +25 with Ked Paddah)
[X][ROM] To justify the costs, it is crucial that the Licori end up with a Federation-friendly government
[X][TALK] Flood the broadcasts
I do not think we should be 'fine' with handing them anything easily, especially the superscience madmen, especially since they don't seem very interested in subjugating other species. Why the Licori?
[X][PRIS] Exchange for the Ked Paddah Prisoners (-5pp from disgruntled Federation members, improved relations with Tartresis and Licori, +25 with Ked Paddah)
[X][ROM] To justify the costs, it is crucial that the Licori end up with a Federation-friendly government
[X][TALK] Flood the broadcasts
- Location
- Germany
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- He/Him
And escalating the situation now will certainly change their mind and strengthen their opposition.
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- He/Him
Just enough to keep the Romulans honest, not enough to scare them into thinking we're serious about conquering and subjugating the Arcadians.
I would assume the intro text is kept the same:
But the decisions themselves are phrased in a value-neutral way.
Romuls are gonna Romul. Like what are they going to do, go "Ah! Perfidious Federation, challenging us in the covert war we started! Those unscrupulous bastards!"
In fact if you want MORE romulan friendship you should vote for the stronger pushback options because then they'll respect us more.
BTW is there a post outlining how the various phases work in the new combat engine somewhere? It'd be important for trying to design say, a skirmishing frigate or something.
- Location
- Germany
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- He/Him
I don't perceive 'push-back' as neutral, and, to answer the original question no, I wouldn't have voted for another option.
Imo, this is not our 'claim', neither is it our 'private issue'. I do have a problem with aggressive moves versus a political entity we just signed a non-aggression treaty with when they are looking after their own interests in an area we didn't claim. We fought the war to end a threat of extermination, not to conquer new territory.
Alias
Lord of Otters
- Location
- Northrend
[X][PRIS] Exchange for the Ked Paddah Prisoners (-5pp from disgruntled Federation members, improved relations with Tartresis and Licori, +25 with Ked Paddah)
[X][ROM] The Arcadians have the right to self-determination, we only demand they respect the safety of their neighbours
[X][TALK] Flood the broadcasts
[X][ROM] The Arcadians have the right to self-determination, we only demand they respect the safety of their neighbours
[X][TALK] Flood the broadcasts
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Following this line of thought results in Scott Linderly as Commander, Starfleet; you do realize that, don't you?In fact if you want MORE romulan friendship you should vote for the stronger pushback options because then they'll respect us more.
Nervos Belli
Don't think this means you've won!
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- Murica
While we aren't friends with the Romulans, we currently aren't enemies, and we don't need to oppose this just because it benefits the Romulans, unlike say the Cardassians who we are very much enemies with. We don't need to be making enemies right now either. As to why the Romulans are only approaching the Licori, there are a few explanations. The Licori are right on their border, for one. I suspect that they do the same to other species on their border, but we don't know of any of them yet. The Romulans are also unnerved by the unstable mentats on their doorstep, and may be too paranoid to trust the Federation or anyone else to contain the threat properly.
While it's possible that a Romulan aligned Licori empire might be an issue a few decades from now, I don't think it's guaranteed, nor do I think it's worth quarreling with the Romulans over.
That would assume my thought process is 'befriend Romulans at all costs."
- Location
- Germany
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- He/Him
They may have taken a closer look after the KP declared war, a few years later the Gaeni declared war shortly followed by the Federation, whose last war of aggression was declared - never before?
If we send the Warmaster back, then most of what he says should synergies with the propaganda angle. He's had his first drink of the root beer.
Remember how awkward things are with the Sydraxians, in part because we shot their Not!Harrington out of space?
This is a chance to bring the opposite situation to existence.
Which is to say - *hitches to bandwagon*
[X][ROM] We will put forward our case to the Arcadian people but ultimately we are not colonisers
[X][PRIS] Exchange for the Ked Paddah Prisoners (-5pp from disgruntled Federation members, improved relations with Tartresis and Licori, +25 with Ked Paddah)
[X][TALK] Flood the broadcasts
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- Location
- Nova Scotia, Canada
[x][PRIS] Release unilaterally (-15pp from disgruntled Federation members, greatly improve relations with Tartresis, improved relations with Licori)
[x][ROM] We will put forward our case to the Arcadian people but ultimately we are not colonisers
[x][TALK] Flood the broadcasts
I think there is a synergy here with showing benevolence after showing strength. We can give back the prisoners for the strong boost to 1 of 2 major houses left, along with playing all the cards about mentats, romulans and why we felt we had to go to war.
[x][ROM] We will put forward our case to the Arcadian people but ultimately we are not colonisers
[x][TALK] Flood the broadcasts
I think there is a synergy here with showing benevolence after showing strength. We can give back the prisoners for the strong boost to 1 of 2 major houses left, along with playing all the cards about mentats, romulans and why we felt we had to go to war.
You know, Federation territory is just as close to the Arcadian Empire as Romulan territory is. I respect the rest of your arguments, but this isn't inside the Romulan sphere of influence and outside the Federation sphere of influence. The Federation and Romulans have exactly equal interests here.
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You mean it isn't? Well, why not?!That would assume my thought process is 'befriend Romulans at all costs."
- Location
- Germany
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- He/Him
And that's where my perception of 'push-back' plays a role. Both sides arguing - no problem for me. The Romulans being Romulans (ie, supporting a favored faction, like we might do/have done with the Sydraxians) - not a fan, but I'd see no problem in countering Federation-style.
'Pushing back' reads like 'demonizing them' / 'shedding them in the worst light possible', in degrees.
And that might simply be a failed reading comprehension check, that's why I'm answering like I do.
In fact if you want MORE romulan friendship you should vote for the stronger pushback options because then they'll respect us more.
That's Klingons.
EDIT:
FTFM
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I think in general this thread gives way too much leeway to the Romulans, a government known for being underhanded, sneaky, and manipulative both internally and externally. I would encouage y'all to think very long-term when dealing with their actions but also with the Licori in particular. I remind you the dustup they are having with the Klingons is over who is going to take on the Federation later. They may have a non-aggression pact with us now but that may not be true in the future, as it's just words on paper and the Romulans will break with that if they think they can get the upper hand. We see this in canon with Balance of Terror re: the neutral zone, and again later on in TNG on a smaller scale in The Defector.
They are not our friends.
They are not a friendly government.
They will not be a friendly government in the future.
We could be at war with them within two decades depending on how the Klingon War shakes out.
If you want to debate the ethics of if it is a violation of the Prime Directive to interfere, I will agree on that. That is my major qualm with not going for lesser intervention options. But it is a mistake to frame this as "hey, it's okay if the Romulans get it?" Y'all would be losing your fucking minds if this was the Cardassians.
They are not our friends.
They are not a friendly government.
They will not be a friendly government in the future.
We could be at war with them within two decades depending on how the Klingon War shakes out.
If you want to debate the ethics of if it is a violation of the Prime Directive to interfere, I will agree on that. That is my major qualm with not going for lesser intervention options. But it is a mistake to frame this as "hey, it's okay if the Romulans get it?" Y'all would be losing your fucking minds if this was the Cardassians.