...Man the Licori are in for a very bad day.

According to Oneiros, they currently have ~2 Capital Ships, 5 Cruisers, and 12-20 Frigates. Some of those frigates are also noted as being roughly the same as a Yrillian Corsair, which I can only assume means it's sort of like a Soyuz class ship in stats. However, even if we were to treat them all as Miranda-A's, while also treating the pair of Capital Ships as Excelsior-A's and assuming that all 5 cruisers are the C5 model we observed, the Licori would only have around C100 across 27 ships.

The current maximum force plan by Briefvoice calls for us to commit C79 across 19 ships immediately, ending with C97 across 22 ships total. (counting veterancy and captain's bonuses) We're going to have almost enough force to equal the Licori just with Starfleet alone before the Member World navies even come into it.

Now, given the whole War Support mechanic Oneiros created, I can't really make an accurate guess as to what we might get in terms of combat power from the Member World navies. Obviously, given the point totals stated, the UESPA, Tellarite State Force, Rigel Defence Force, and Gaeni Navy will end up making the bulk of contributions. As a pie in the sky guess though, if we assume that for every 10 points of political support we can request 1 combat power worth of ship from that member, then we could get an additional C65 across 18(?) ships. That's probably not how this will end up working of course, it would mean the even the Gaeni give us less than a third of their navy which is completely ridiculous given the circumstances, but it at least serves as a minimum baseline guess. Theoretically though, the Member World navies could potentially commit three quarters of their forces and give us almost C170!

And then of course the Ked Paddah navy will make this conflict even more one sided, because as SWB noted they're supposed to be even stronger than the Licori in conventional strength.

Edit: Changed combat values as per current plan.
 
Last edited:
That's the entry on the species list for the Licori. Note the underlined portion. Now, depending on the definition of 'thinking machine,' the Licori may or may not be using mentats to replace things like personnel databases and accounting software... But it's a reasonable reading of the description to suggest that if the mentats don't replace ALL functions of computers in a normal society, they still replace a lot of them.

Realistically the more functions they replace the worse the situation actually is because they must be offering incentives good enough for large numbers of people to give up their lives and they're more equipped to mass-produce.
 
We were told that the Ked Paddah had the advantage in conventional strength, so they should in theory have even more conventionally measurable power than the Licori do.

It could be that the Ked Padda were only fighting the Imperial fleet and one or two of the Houses, and that the Licori didn't consolidate their militaries like this until the Gaeni declared war.
 
Early robot uprising?

The fact that their technological level is comparable to ours on average despite occasional spikes of exotic superscience suggests one of three answers to the question in your second clause:

1) Either R&D relying on mentats works less well on average (but much better in certain rare instances, when the winds of inspiration blow right) than relying on computers, and the Licori have been like this for, say, three or more centuries...
2) R&D relying on mentats works about as well on average as computers, and the Licori have been like this for about two centuries...
3) Or R&D relying on mentats is significantly better on average, the mentats are in the process of out-inventing us and have already 'caught up....' in which case they may have been like this for only 100 years or so.

Here's the thing though.

In Dune, humanity is alone in the galaxy (unless one of the sequels changed that, I dunno I stopped after the first couple). When the robot uprising happened, it really did seem like continuing to use advanced computers was a bad idea, since the only society to ever use computers saw their computers rise up. Hence, it was decided that the mentats were needed to replace computers.

This is sophont-ridden Star Trek, though, and robot uprisings are very much the exception to the norm for computer-reliant civilizations. They've happened, sure, but the majority of Trek races never had it happen to them. Its pretty clear that robot uprisings in Trek are a consequence of specific mistakes made by specific creators, rather than any kind of norm.

Even if the Licori have only met a few other spacefaring races, they must have noticed that the others are able to get on just fine with computers and have (probably; the Gaeni are a likely exception :p ) never had any major terminator problems. The Licori can look at their neighbors' technology, SEE where their own machines went wrong, and make safer ones similar to those used by everyone else.
 
Last edited:
Do we have anything on Andorian Guard support for the war? They are fairly close to the action, and were mostly Expansionist. I get why the Indorians and Apiata aren't committing anything to the war, but you would think the Andorian would offer something.
Unless I'm mistaken, the Andorian Guard are being tapped for internal patrols of Federation space while Starfleet is away.

Not a bad plan, but it's too slow for our tastes, and so we've instead committed to a strategy that takes that sort of offensive diplomacy off the table.
Offensive diplomacy against the Cardassian client network was taken off the table by the Treaty of Celos; blame the Federation Diplomatic Service for writing the treaty or the Federation Council for ratifying it.
 
Unless I'm mistaken, the Andorian Guard are being tapped for internal patrols of Federation space while Starfleet is away.


Offensive diplomacy against the Cardassian client network was taken off the table by the Treaty of Celos; blame the Federation Diplomatic Service for writing the treaty or the Federation Council for ratifying it.

It was probably a red line for the Cardassians. If they didn't get that they would have walked. It's what I would have done imho.
 
I think the VA in charge should be Uhura.

We've noted that we can't promote her to full Admiral, so she can't remain in charge of Ops. She would have to take one of the operational areas under Ops, of which this is one. This new area is the best suited to her set of aggressive, steady, and especially diplomatic abilities.

What makes you think the Ops reorg includes promoting the position to Admiral? I figured it was just us switching the way Commodores ran sectors and RA's ran Starbases. The promotion to Admiral costs 30-40 pp in a regular snakepit, and I doubt we could pick it up for 10.
 
Stesk just basically lost all the points he'd racked up with me from his handling of the Biophage and Orion affairs. This is not an offensive war. The Licori are trying to develop supernovae inducers and testing them with multiple federation homeworlds in the kill zone. They're causing high energy cosmic events in our space. They are willing to start a wars, plural, they can't win conventionally rather than knock off this behavior. Yes, they technically didn't declare war, but only in the sense that they didn't file the paperwork. They absolutely committed acts of war against against basically everyone.

No, the possibility that the Empire can't reign in the Mentats doesn't help. Because in that case they're a de facto failed state providing cover for a bunch of madmen who are attempting to cause gigadeath to teradeath events for the lulz.
 
What makes you think the Ops reorg includes promoting the position to Admiral? I figured it was just us switching the way Commodores ran sectors and RA's ran Starbases. The promotion to Admiral costs 30-40 pp in a regular snakepit, and I doubt we could pick it up for 10.

We probably could because given our growth it went from a nice to have to a almost near necessity to the point that everyone's in near agreement.
 
We probably could because given our growth it went from a nice to have to a almost near necessity to the point that everyone's in near agreement.

Starfleet's convinced it's necessary, but we still have to persuade the Council, who aren't familiar with all the minutiae of day to day operations. I find the idea we somehow managed a 75% discount in the three months since the last snakepit highly unlikely.
 
If we do end up with Enterprise in the Licori task force; then Nash should be given command of that task force.

*Nash kicks down a door*

"WE'RE BACK!!"

*Distant sounds of total Cardassian panic*
 
If we do end up with Enterprise in the Licori task force; then Nash should be given command of that task force.

*Nash kicks down a door*

"WE'RE BACK!!"

*Distant sounds of total Cardassian panic*

If anything, I'd think the Cardassians would be glad she's on the opposite side of Federation space fighting someone who they have nothing to do with.

Side note: I think a friendly mentat would make an amazing addition for one of those "ship picks up a named character" events. 'Course that's all down to luck, but it's very Star Trek

Man, wouldn't it be great if the A'Tuin picks up a mentat with five years left to live this quarter? The A'Tuin's five year mission could be his final work, and it would give Vol Chad some reconciliation after a mentat ended his previous command.
 
Last edited:
Having Mentats would be pretty nice as long as somebody else was in charge of the experiments...

Crap, that's the slippery slope, isn't it?
 
Having Mentats would be pretty nice as long as somebody else was in charge of the experiments...

Crap, that's the slippery slope, isn't it?
I could not give a shit about having mentats. What I do want to explore is the idea that mentats are people too. Maybe there are ones that don't go rogue or that retain enough sense to keep their empathy and ethics. I wouldn't like to paint them with the same brush unless they deserve it. That's not to say that caution and cracking down is an incorrect initial action, just that there could be nuance to individuals.
 
Until the surprise reveal of Cardassian involvement in the Mentat issue, of course...

Very unlikely. The Licori are extremely distant from Cardassian space. They'd have to go through multiple clients - some of whom, like the Yrillians, aren't exactly trustworthy - to get any sort of support to the Licori. And they probably only learned of each other's existence within the last couple of years.
 
Last edited:
Actually to be honest we don't know that the Cardassians know of the Licori or vice versa at all. There's no real reason for either of them to.
 
Actually to be honest we don't know that the Cardassians know of the Licori or vice versa at all. There's no real reason for either of them to.

I'm sure they know of each other at this point, but only because they both have access to Federation newscasts.


EDIT: both of their reactions were probably "good thing those people are nowhere near us."
 
Last edited:
@Briefvoice I would actually feel more comfortable putting Mirandas into the LBZ over Constellations. The Constie rolls at +3 across the board to respond to events vs the Miranda. Meanwhile it only decreases hull and science by 1 each. Yes, they're not quite as capable but we have Excelsiors and Oberths to cover S for each taskforce

Given the fact that it appears we can't count on complete Member World support even from those members right next to the Licori, a maximum force plan does seem to be the only way to do this. However, I would suggest that we leave a Constellation, the Stalwart which is already there, in the Tellar Sector in light of the fact that the Tellarite State Force's are looking to be one of the main contributors to the war.

A single Constellation class ship is not going to make much difference in this conflict given how many ships we are committing, and keeping one back to respond to events is worth losing a mere 3C 2H 2L in order to at least potentially try to avoid losing political support from failed events.

After a good think, I believe both of you have an excellent point, A baseline Constellation is not that much better than a baseline Miranda in combat, and much better at Event response. (I mean, still crappy, but better at least, and benefits from doctrine bonus.) I am editing my plan to leave Constellations over Mirandas and to leave the Stalwart in the Tellar Sector.

Meaning, @OneirosTheWriter, the poor little Docana will be spared the horrors of war and can instead spend her life helping people, as a Starfleet ship is meant to!

Will quote my edited plan once I've made the changes.
 
Back
Top