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Yes, but I want to. I want to keep hitting the limits of how fast our ships can be, so that eventually our researchers and engineers will design ways for our ships to go even faster.
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SCIFI-enthusiast
Fractal-Pattern Technological Singularity
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[X] Two Forward (Mark IV) [24/72 Damage] [Cost: 159]
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When a new Star Trek series gets announced they don't say 'This new ship has a cruising speed of warp 8.2.' No, they say, 'This new ship can reach warp 9.975.' Because maximum warp puts butts in seats!
Starfleet procurement admirals work the same way as 90s television audiences.
Starfleet procurement admirals work the same way as 90s television audiences.
[X] Two Forward, Two Aft (Mark IV) [24/72 Damage] [Cost: 169]
To be honest, I hope that when it comes time for late TMP/TNG warp we just stick to WF^3.3333333… or some higher round value (say WF^4*), it'd be a lot easier to represent than the ridiculous climb that the warp 9+ scale takes
*Which would make warp 10 about 10,000c, rather than that speed being about warp 9.99436.
*Which would make warp 10 about 10,000c, rather than that speed being about warp 9.99436.
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TheShadowDeamon
Mighty Dragon
Yeah, that exponential incline past warp 9 was stupid - just so they never hit warp 10? Let's keep it to the power of a fixed number and eventually we can say "my ship goes up to Eleven!"
you're right
we're building these ship, we can tell yoyodyne what to put on the speed dial 👀
I'm planning for the warp speed transition with the Great Experiment era. Better understanding of warp dynamics shifts the warp thresholds forward. Just without a formula change post warp 9. So the Enterprise-D would have a top speed of 10.2 rather than 9.4.
They kinda do, the refit Galaxy can go to warp 13!
Good to know! I'm guessing you're of the opinion that the transwarp the Excelsior's captain talked of is just what we consider the TNG warp scale? Or is it a case of an actual transwarp (as we understand it today) experiment that would always fail but the data generated from it being enough to cause a massive refinement to warp field dynamics understanding.
Per Encounter at Farpoint it could go a bit faster, perhaps 9.6 going by how there's no attempt to go faster after Q's ball accelerates to 9.7+*, though at 10.2 it'll still be 544c faster than the canon 9.4.
*and, iirc the tech manual gives 9.6 as being sustainable for 12 hours.
It occurs to me that the Excalibur is going to undergo refit to type 4 torps, and in doing so have 3 forward mounted type 4 torpedoes. That's going to be horrifying to anyone it fights.
That does kinda assume they don't just cut it down to just 2x launchers. By the 2260s/70s the torpedoes are probably going to be more powerful even with the same launcher.
You are comparing a ship which would likely need multiple of the Klingon's most modern capital ship to drive off to a ship whose only response to a K'tinga is to die because it's just that much weaker and slower.
Even just assuming the K'tinga is a carbon copy of the Excalibur outside of durability where we know it's superior paints an absolutely awful picture if a Miranda ran into one.
Heck the Saladin Vs D6 is a much closer fight than the K'tinga vs Miranda as the Saladin at least had a notable durability advantage (27 shields vs 20) whereas the Miranda is inferior in every metric.
Not to mention that Starfleet thinking that the Saladin Vs D6 and Newton Vs D6 situation was acceptable ended up with the Klingons rolling across the Federation's border, capturing a member world, and performing orbital bombardment on a founding member's world, not to mention all the ships Starfleet lost in order to push them back.
The plasma torpedoes that the K'Tinga and presumably BoP are being armed with really shouldn't be underestimated, from one hit destroying an outposts shields to the next shot basically boiling away a solid mile of iron and heavily damaging the structure at the centre of it!
It can also accelerate to warp - which is fucking ridiculous, photon torpedoes over a century from now can't do that! Even if warp speed in reverse is considerably slower than ahead you're looking at a weapon capable of going to perhaps 64x the speed of light (assuming it caps out at warp 4 in reverse).
It can also accelerate to warp - which is fucking ridiculous, photon torpedoes over a century from now can't do that! Even if warp speed in reverse is considerably slower than ahead you're looking at a weapon capable of going to perhaps 64x the speed of light (assuming it caps out at warp 4 in reverse).
The sprint particularly, yes. As part of the stats revamp I'm going to have to end up writing specifically what each stat improves. I'm also considering a warp offense/warp defense stat of some sort to represent forward/aft torpedoes, but I'm more ambivalent about that.
Yeah but the Romulan Plasma Torpedo from Balance of Terror seems to have been a specific weapon system that it generates in front of the ship before firing like some sort of DBZ charge up attack. Very weird.
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Also, IIRC the common explanation for that warp attack trick is that Kirk got unlucky with the timing on that emergency warp jump, and grabbed the torpedo with the edge of the Enterprise's warp bubble.
can I ask that when we get the module vote, we at least get a number of modules we're going to get total or a little (x -> y -> z) step line like in the tech votes so we have a rough idea of how many more choices we're getting?
Though it'd probably be covered by civilian shipbuilders/designers, it'd be kinda cool if at some point a major sports team (Dallas Cowboys, Real Madrid, Manchester United or even something like the Board of Control for Cricket in India, to give a few examples) contracts us to make a ship that's some combination of player transport, housing, training and perhaps even a stadium in itself (with or without planetary landing).
It's a civil thing that isn't the usual cargo transport/space liner deal that I think could be a fun aside.
It's a civil thing that isn't the usual cargo transport/space liner deal that I think could be a fun aside.
TheShadowDeamon
Mighty Dragon
@Sayle did you see this idea I had about how the ships cost stat could be easily done without having to go into economics, GDP, ect...
There are many fewer K'tingas than there are BoPs and BoP wolfpacks
A Miranda is way more likely to run into one threat category than the other, unless someone made the administrative decision to put one on a high-risk solo mission profile
Besides, the Miranda has only basic science facilities.
Yes actually.
If the juice is worth the squeeze, I would absolutely expect a Federation to sit on a site or area of space until relieved
The Enterprise-D did much the same with the planetary instability thing in the episode Pen Pals, when they were on station for more than two months
Just like we sent our fast, expensive Excalibur tactical cruisers out of the Federation to go do science and first contact shit because they were the most likely to survive and return
And as has been pointed out, this role is too high risk for a Miranda; we dont treat our ships or crews as consumables.
Like asking a man to go pan for gold in bandit infested territory armed with only a sword and riding a donkey; he may be a good swordsman, and it might be a great donkey but it doesnt matter if everyone else is carrying guns and riding horses
This is not a theoretical issue either; the whole reason the Saladin got withdrawn from dilithium prospecting on the Federation's frontiers was because of their increasing vulnerability to Klingon attack during and after it.
And the 180kt Saladins were Tactical A- for their time
We have learned this lesson in blood before.
Man, I've just realised, depending on the sort of fit we give the Federation Kirk might have to face off against a Federation refit instead of a Miranda (refit) in his Excalibur refit (and even if the scientific fit isn't the most impressive compared to the Miranda, most secondary material and fanon puts the Mutara nebula/its sector close to Klingon space so they'd probably send her out to do the mapping for safety).
KlavoHunter
THOU SHALT WORSHIP NO GODS ABOVE ENTERPRISE!
No worries, friends - I've leaked the patrol schedules of UFS Miranda ahead of her maiden voyage, and she'll get unfortunately jumped by pirates and destroyed.
After that sort of humiliating showing, Starfleet Command will cancel all future orders of the Miranda!
After that sort of humiliating showing, Starfleet Command will cancel all future orders of the Miranda!
Chargone
Invisable operator
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I seem to recall a point in time when sprint was considered functionally irrelivant, because that is really the alternative position on the matter, which apparently also was no good. And a decent period when sprint was valued mainly because higher sprint and higher max cruise were the same option most of the time due to how the latter was calculated. Admittedly, some of that may be remembering the previous quest.
It seems pretty consistent that when explained and understood properly, max cruise is the only one that actually matters for most of the ships we design. Efficient cruise matters for certain roles, but unless our new nacelles are so much less efficient than our current ones as to remove any justification for actually using them, or we start designing a Lot more ships intended either for civilian use or extended out of supply opperations (explorers and raiders, mostly), that's not going to be the norm.
Recent focus on sprint has in part been a conseqence of max cruise being capped while designing ships that see no real benefit from increasing efficient cruise (due to a combination of intended role, refuling ststions, and engines that are just pretty efficient overall anyway, given the ranges we're getting off the default tanks)
Mind you, people's rather baffling failure to understand "max cruise", "sprint", and the difference between them has been an ongoing problem.
As for over valuing manouverability: it's one of our few strengths compared to 'peer' powers in combat, torpedoes are rubbish against targets with meaningful manouverability advantages (and remember, earlier attempts to deemphasise torpedoes saw us basically told that we'd chosen incorrectly when designing our phasers such that they were borderline worthless (and that remaind the case for quite some time IRL) and that focusing on coverage instead of manouverability to ensure that enemies were getting hit was Also just straight up incorrect ('two phasers at a time only, nothing can change this no matter how nonsensical that actually is' only served to strengthen this understanding of the state of things, as did phasers losing their point defence function)). Then, of course, the survivability onion is a thing (and we've been told more than once that our shields aren't good enough, though that seems to finally be changing so long as we build our ships Big... Which worsens manouverability, and thus the effectiveness of torpedoes vs a greater number of enemies, in Theory mitigated in part by our better engines).
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Hang on, I'm getting word from my future contacts that the Orion Pirates will steal the Miranda, and love it so much that they start mass producing their own version of it.
To be honest, the Miranda is so slow compared to their ships that any Orion captains with honour fake engine troubles so they're only going at warp 9-10 when next to them.