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Starfleet Design Bureau

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[X] Type-1 Heavy [36 Shields] --- (Cost 79.25 -> 97.25) --- [Second Tranche: 73.25 -> 91.25]
[X] Heavy Covariant [44 Shields] --- (Cost 79.25 -> 116.75) --- [Second Tranche: 73.25 -> 103.25]

Affordability or maximum protection, I think.
 
[X] Type-1 Heavy [36 Shields] --- (Cost 79.25 -> 97.25) --- [Second Tranche: 73.25 -> 91.25]
[X] Standard Covariant [36 Shields] --- (Cost 79.25 -> 104.75) --- [Second Tranche: 73.25 -> 93.75]

I'm just voting on price, either one of these is fine by me.
 
[x] Type-1 Standard [27 Shields] --- (Cost 79.25 -> 84.75) --- [Second Tranche: 73.25 -> 78.75]
[X] Type-1 Heavy [36 Shields] --- (Cost 79.25 -> 97.25) --- [Second Tranche: 73.25 -> 91.25]

I would greatly prefer the type 1 standard but believe that the covariant options are making a mistake. With it's current armament and speed, this ship should be capable of achieving it's goals with any of the shield options, and as such we should go for the cheaper ones.
 
[X] Standard Covariant [36 Shields] --- (Cost 79.25 -> 104.75) --- [Second Tranche: 73.25 -> 93.75]
 
I like 20% more ships than the covariant. Blowing out a shield grid is probably easier to repair than armor but 20% means a lot more deleting problems. Shields don't need to be crazy strong if we're shredding enemies quickly enough (and it sounds like we will be).
[X] Type-1 Standard [27 Shields] --- (Cost 79.25 -> 84.75) --- [Second Tranche: 73.25 -> 78.75]

I don't think that one will be popular though so I'll go with this. Tech advancement is nice but prioritizing it in an "existential" war is dumb as hell. Survive the 5 years then worry about the 20 years, it's the same reason the refit angle isn't a great argument for swaying me. It's nice to have but 10% more ships now is where the value is. One of these with an older ship as a buddy (or bait) would mulch some klingons.
[X] Type-1 Heavy [36 Shields] --- (Cost 79.25 -> 97.25) --- [Second Tranche: 73.25 -> 91.25]
 
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[X] Type-1 Standard [27 Shields] --- (Cost 79.25 -> 84.75) --- [Second Tranche: 73.25 -> 78.75]
[X] Type-1 Heavy [36 Shields] --- (Cost 79.25 -> 97.25) --- [Second Tranche: 73.25 -> 91.25]

I for one would consider this ship a rousing success if we got as much capability as we did without even going too far past the prime timeline Connie.
 
[X] Type-1 Heavy [36 Shields] --- (Cost 79.25 -> 97.25) --- [Second Tranche: 73.25 -> 91.25]
[X] Standard Covariant [36 Shields] --- (Cost 79.25 -> 104.75) --- [Second Tranche: 73.25 -> 93.75]
 
[X] Standard Covariant [36 Shields] --- (Cost 79.25 -> 104.75) --- [Second Tranche: 73.25 -> 93.75]
[X] Heavy Covariant [44 Shields] --- (Cost 79.25 -> 116.75) --- [Second Tranche: 73.25 -> 103.25]
 
[X] Standard Covariant [36 Shields] (Cost 79.25 -> 104.75) [Second Tranche: 73.25 -> 93.75]
[X] Heavy Covariant [44 Shields] (Cost 79.25 -> 116.75) [Second Tranche: 73.25 ->103.25]

DeltaV11.2 said:
To explain with an example why I keep talking about squares, have an example. Let's say that ships have a certain dps X, and a durability Y. So one ship will kill another in Y/X time.

Now let's we have two ships A and B. A has 1 dps, and 10 hp. B has 1 dps and 20 hp. How much better is B than A? Well it has twice the durability, so we can say twice. If they fight, B will survive with half its hp remaining. How much better do we make A if we make it half the price? Two A will have 2 dps, and 20 hp. So they will easily beat one B! Actually they will beat B by exactly the same margin, and will have half their collective hp left. They are twice as good as B, which was twice as good as A before the price cut. So halving the price made A four times, that is two squared times as good.
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That is a very very boring way to do this game, I'm gonna say... No
Also in that simplified example, you assume perfectly spread damage, not likely at all.
 
[X] Standard Covariant [36 Shields] --- (Cost 79.25 -> 104.75) --- [Second Tranche: 73.25 -> 93.75]
[X] Heavy Covariant [44 Shields] --- (Cost 79.25 -> 116.75) --- [Second Tranche: 73.25 -> 103.25]
 
DeltaV11.2 said:
To explain with an example why I keep talking about squares, have an example. Let's say that ships have a certain dps X, and a durability Y. So one ship will kill another in Y/X time.

Now let's we have two ships A and B. A has 1 dps, and 10 hp. B has 1 dps and 20 hp. How much better is B than A? Well it has twice the durability, so we can say twice. If they fight, B will survive with half its hp remaining. How much better do we make A if we make it half the price? Two A will have 2 dps, and 20 hp. So they will easily beat one B! Actually they will beat B by exactly the same margin, and will have half their collective hp left. They are twice as good as B, which was twice as good as A before the price cut. So halving the price made A four times, that is two squared times as good.
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This is a very nice spherical cow simple model that is roughly as accurate to reality. Especially since in practice we are talking about single digit number differences in ship numbers and they will be operating alone most of the time even if we have more of them. simply as a consequence of strategic reality and distance.
 
[X] Type-1 Heavy [36 Shields] --- (Cost 79.25 -> 97.25) --- [Second Tranche: 73.25 -> 91.25]
[X] Light Covariant [27 Shields] --- (Cost 79.25 -> 96) --- [Second Tranche: 73.25 -> 86.75]

Either of these would be good, but if we go medium shielding we should at least get some tech advancement out of it. I can't justify increasing the cost much more, and we've got two other defensive technologies maxed.
 
[X] Standard Covariant [36 Shields] (Cost 79.25 -> 104.75) [Second Tranche: 73.25 -> 93.75]
[X] Heavy Covariant [44 Shields] (Cost 79.25 -> 116.75) [Second Tranche: 73.25 ->103.25]
 
[X] Type-1 Standard [27 Shields] --- (Cost 79.25 -> 84.75) --- [Second Tranche: 73.25 -> 78.75]

We need enough shields to survive an alpha strike, but the standards should be just about enough to do that. Afterwards, our superior impulse thrusters mean that we shouldn't be taking many shots. It's not ideal, but more ships is pretty important and this still has 75% the shields of the next tier up for a significantly cheaper price, which in turn means more of them get built. Plus it has a pretty solid hull, so it's more like 90% in terms of total durability.
 
Mechanis said:
This idea of "the canon Federation did fine" is extremely deceptive, because the canon Federation had at this time already started with upgrading its existing fleet to Warp 8 engines, possessed superior power phasers that allowed them to be closer to primary weapons rather than secondary weapons, and likely had a more tactically capable standing fleet, as we have frequently treated tactical capabilities as a dump stat for everything that's not an Explorer.
So no, I do not at all believe that just because it was adequate in canon it will be adequate herein.
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...The point is that unlocking Covariant earlier in the timeline won't actually mean most of our fleet has it, whatever we do now. It's certainly an investment for the future after the war, but by definition it cannot not help the rest of our fleet much now.

So the whole "unlocking it earlier" thing is sort of a red herring in terms of making a difference to the war.
 
[X] Type-1 Heavy [36 Shields] --- (Cost 79.25 -> 97.25) --- [Second Tranche: 73.25 -> 91.25]
[X] Heavy Covariant [44 Shields] --- (Cost 79.25 -> 116.75) --- [Second Tranche: 73.25 -> 103.25]
 
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[X] Type-1 Heavy [36 Shields] --- (Cost 79.25 -> 97.25) --- [Second Tranche: 73.25 -> 91.25]
[X] Heavy Covariant [44 Shields] --- (Cost 79.25 -> 116.75) --- [Second Tranche: 73.25 -> 103.25]

Genuinely tough choice.
 
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