Starfleet Design Bureau

I thought the thread had decided they really didn't want this sucker anywhere near combat or the front lines.
That was never an option; this is a cruiser-weight ship, and in current Starfleet doctrine, cruiser-weight ships need to be able to fight.

Starfleet can only afford to maintain so much tonnage, and that tonnage is the budget for military power. We want to build a noncombatant, it needs to be frigate-weight or smaller.
 
That was never an option; this is a cruiser-weight ship, and in current Starfleet doctrine, cruiser-weight ships need to be able to fight.

Starfleet can only afford to maintain so much tonnage, and that tonnage is the budget for military power. We want to build a noncombatant, it needs to be frigate-weight or smaller.
On the other hand, an extremely civilian useful cargo ship is something that could get Starfleet to keep the warp 7 core production line running even as warp 8 cores come online. Sure they won't be that useful as combat ships anymore but moving cargo has high value.
 
Your fortress battle station will not save you.
Something along the lines of the cardassian dreadnought but far less ambitious would be an idea.

Per the TNG technical manual: "the completed casing measures 2.1 x 0.76 x 0.45 metres and masses 247.5 kilograms", assuming the M/AM reactant tanks represent approximately 50% of the volume of the torpedo (0.3591 cubic metres) and that there's an equal split between them (0.17955 cubic metres) the antimatter is being stored at a density of 0.0083542188805347 kg/l.

Assuming a similar setup with the theoretical strategic photon (and an initial 4,050 TEU volume/134,460 m3 or about 134,460,000 litres) you'd be looking at about 280.82706766917 tonnes of antimatter, or 10,963,488.721804397 megatons. 9.136% of the impact energy of the dinosaur killer asteroid.

This is something of a minimal theoretical yield, based on what we know a starship scaled weapon should be able to store its antimatter at a far greater density than the torpedoes can.
Edit: you could also get some pretty funky results seeing what size of asteroid this thing can just kill outright with SDNs asteroid calculator.
 
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I thought the thread had decided they really didn't want this sucker anywhere near combat or the front lines.

Last minute deployment of a space minefield or having dozens of relatively unsupported teams scrambling to dig through potentially trapped enemy wreckage both seem like scenarios we don't intend for this ship to deal with.

Dedicated internal cargo without the pod is never going to not be valued and prioritized by the crew. It's all starfleet's stuff but it's much easier to maintain separate spaces for critical and long term supplies if you've got the internal bay. I see the loading bay/cargo bay as really leveraging our strength in cargo and since that strength was one of the two key aspects starfleet wants us to focus on it sets us up well. I also suspect it'll provide synergies with the workshops I'm hoping we'll dump in.

If the ship was a surveyor or fleet tender I'd likely lean a little towards more shuttles but even then I'd have reservations as 20+ ship fleets seem uncommon.
Yeah, the only time this ship should be doing anything where success or failure is a difference of minutes is when it's running away from raiders.
 
I thought the thread had decided they really didn't want this sucker anywhere near combat or the front lines.
It's the most qualified engineering+cargo ship in the entire Federation to get close to a combat zone, and she's got the firepower of a cruiser to punish enemies that linger in the front or aft arcs.

If you have any better suggestions for a vessel that can perform these necessary-but-difficult roles, I'm all ears!

(Currently my inner child is SCREAMING shuttledeck...)
[X] Shuttledeck [8 Engineering, 32 Type-F Shuttlecraft]
 
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This is something of a minimal theoretical yield, based on what we know a starship scaled weapon should be able to store its antimatter at a far greater density than the torpedoes can.
It's also overkill against anything that's not a Borg Cube. Make it a MIRV-like/cluster torpedo of doom. Heck, at that size you could stuff it with cheaper obsolete/obsolescent torpedo tech and replicate the Macross Missile Massacre.


Star Fleet is unlikely to go for it, but it'd be hilarious. Warp in, point at military orbital infrastructure, launch and fuck off immediately.
 
The counter to that argument is that there could be plenty of missions where that capability will be sitting idle.
I imagine we're always going to be able to find something more to do that can have a shuttle assigned to it, in much the same way if we take more cargo bays we're always going to be able to find something more to haul even if everything we need can already fit in the cargo pod. They're both pretty generally useful things to have like that, idle capacity is not something I'm worried about.

Yes, but a ship still spends most of it's time going from point A to B, not sitting at B doing said task.
Explorer, patrol, survey, and pure cargo sure, but the Halley isn't a direct match to any of those roles. The request was for an engineering ship that we then chose to give a significant amount of cargo capacity so it can haul it's own supplies for likely any but the largest projects. Exact words were: "Starfleet wants a ship that can carry more, get there faster, and do more when it is there." The Halley is likely to do the most "sitting at point B" out of any ship we've ever touched.

Okay, where are we going to find the quarters space for approx. 145 more pilots, work crews and support staff?
Within the giant amount of interval volume we got when we voted for the orb? Once again we can assume competence from our design teams, if we're being offered an option for 32 shuttles it's safe to assume they have calculated the Halley can support that amount without crippling it in other ways.

I thought the thread had decided they really didn't want this sucker anywhere near combat or the front lines.
I'm not voting Shuttledeck because I want it to be a carrier on the front lines or whatever. I'm doing it because I want one of these to rock up to an engineering site in the Federation interior and just vomit out a swarm of shuttles to do All The Things.
 
I would also like to point out a fun fact.

This seems to be the first ship in the federation to install the command deck at the literal apex of the ship.

This means that not only is the front of the command deck facing space, so is the back.

This may be the first ship in the federation to employ rear view mirrors so the helmsman can see backwards using a purely analogue optics system.

EDIT - I actually love the idea that the command deck is literally a dome of viewports in every direction but down. The curve of the ship leaves it feeling like you are standing on a little platform floating in space.

EDIT EDIT - The command chair needs to spin, and not just so we can get hilarious videos of 3rd shift lieutenants spinning like idiots bored out of their minds for later blackmail material.
 
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It's also overkill against anything that's not a Borg Cube. Make it a MIRV-like/cluster torpedo of doom. Heck, at that size you could stuff it with cheaper obsolete/obsolescent torpedo tech and replicate the Macross Missile Massacre.


Star Fleet is unlikely to go for it, but it'd be hilarious. Warp in, point at military orbital infrastructure, launch and fuck off immediately.
Or a fully shielded facility, remember the pounding ESD and by extension Earth underwent in the Picard finale.

You wouldn't necessarily have to warp in, if we can get warp speed decoupling down you could basically loft it like a an air launched ballistic missile (one of the old nuclear ones) or one of the really big cruise missiles. A warp sustainer shouldn't be too hard to put into it.
 
That was never an option; this is a cruiser-weight ship, and in current Starfleet doctrine, cruiser-weight ships need to be able to fight.

Starfleet can only afford to maintain so much tonnage, and that tonnage is the budget for military power. We want to build a noncombatant, it needs to be frigate-weight or smaller.
A significant portion of discussion around the orb was that the compromised firing arcs didn't really matter since this was designed for federation internal use. The weapons were put on to fend off raiders not as something that we'd expect to be in fleet engagements.

It's not incapable of combat but starfleet would choose to keep it out of any serious engagements because the value it brings is in support and repair capabilities which would be at risk if we let it become part of a furball. Plus it's slow and would hold up the fleet so parking it nearby in a hard to find location seemed like the best for fleet support.
 
A significant portion of discussion around the orb was that the compromised firing arcs didn't really matter since this was designed for federation internal use. The weapons were put on to fend off raiders not as something that we'd expect to be in fleet engagements.

It's not incapable of combat but starfleet would choose to keep it out of any serious engagements because the value it brings is in support and repair capabilities which would be at risk if we let it become part of a furball. Plus it's slow and would hold up the fleet so parking it nearby in a hard to find location seemed like the best for fleet support.
It may not actually be slow, especially if it drops the cargo pod knowing it's about to enter a furball. It's not actually that heavy of a ship with the new structural alloy and it may not lack thrust with the new thruster design.

We will have to see how the prototype rolls all come out in the end, but the possibility for this orb to be surprisingly nimble exists.
 
Your fortress battle station will not save you.

EDIT - I hold that it is feasible. Mount an antimatter tank to a single use photon torpedo tube up sized to shoot a photon torpedo the size of a large shuttle, then shove it all into the shell of a cargo pod. It's not a photon torpedo the size of a cargo pod, but it would absolutely wreck anything unable to dodge.

It just probably takes an hour of cycling warp plasma to prime the damned thing, but hey, it's not like the station is going to run.
considering the cargo pod carries as much a Skate-class frigate, you could probably stick a ton of stuff in there to give it the best possible chance of getting to the target.

In a war, an old frigate might not do much. A frigate caliber round ought to do plenty though.
 
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Its ideal combat use would be as a fleet tender. Tough enough that it can deal with a small raider slipping through (unlike a civilian hauler), but mainly there for supplying and repairing the other ships. A massive fuel pod could greatly increase strategic reach of our fleets for instance.
 
A significant portion of discussion around the orb was that the compromised firing arcs didn't really matter since this was designed for federation internal use. The weapons were put on to fend off raiders not as something that we'd expect to be in fleet engagements.
I'm not claiming the Halley needs to be able to fight particularly well. I'm saying it needs to have utility on the front lines, and it needs to be able to survive there.

Now, I'm thinking we more-or-less achieved that, without spending too much; we have very nice armor, what might still end up an overpowered impulse drive, we've got near-full coverage on the guns so we don't have significant blind spots, and if our shields aren't cutting edge they're not obsolete, either.

So if the Halley has any use on the front lines - and it will, as a supply ship, fleet tender, minelayer or minesweeper, etc, etc - it will be sent there. And that's fine, because if it couldn't be sent there, Starfleet won't build it.
 
I'm not claiming the Halley needs to be able to fight particularly well. I'm saying it needs to have utility on the front lines, and it needs to be able to survive there.

Now, I'm thinking we more-or-less achieved that, without spending too much; we have very nice armor, what might still end up an overpowered impulse drive, we've got near-full coverage on the guns so we don't have significant blind spots, and if our shields aren't cutting edge they're not obsolete, either.

So if the Halley has any use on the front lines - and it will, as a supply ship, fleet tender, minelayer or minesweeper, etc, etc - it will be sent there. And that's fine, because if it couldn't be sent there, Starfleet won't build it.
It's also not bad in a furball per say. It's an extra set of torpedo tubes and an extra set of phasers with a complete 360 degree arc. It can't shoot up and down, but it can roll so that doesn't really matter. It will be able to find something to shoot even if it can't dogfight.

Not something you want to rely on as a line of battle, but not something you would discount as added weight to a battle group ether.

It's nothing special, but you don't need to be special to be worth tonnage in battle.
 
Starfleet Command and its sequels taught me the importance of having lots and lots of shuttles.

[X] Shuttledeck [8 Engineering, 32 Type-F Shuttlecraft]
 
It may not actually be slow, especially if it drops the cargo pod knowing it's about to enter a furball. It's not actually that heavy of a ship with the new structural alloy and it may not lack thrust with the new thruster design.

We will have to see how the prototype rolls all come out in the end, but the possibility for this orb to be surprisingly nimble exists.

True at impulse. I was thinking about how a slower warp speed gives an enemy more time to prepare or make adjustments after picking us up on sensors. Still I don't know that I'd want to risk my tow truck and the guys with my repair parts getting shot up.

If we had 30 delta flyers with pattern repeaters rigged for emergency transport I'd be less hesitant about this ship mixing things up. Though losing the cargo pod and not having an internal bay sounds like a ship that could become a liability after the battle is over.
 
Also, to head off the group who will refuse to consider whatever option ends up opposite the increased antimatter tanks, I would like to suggest the possibility of using our cargo pod to transport an antimatter tank with a standard cargo pod connection.

If we want to use this ship as a mobile fuel tank the standard pod connection should allow us to do so.

I want extra internal tanks so that the ship has standard or low standard range for the Warp 8 era. If it can go 140 light years a ~century from now it would be make a great case for a refit to modernize it's fabrication suites then just scrapping it.
 
True at impulse. I was thinking about how a slower warp speed gives an enemy more time to prepare or make adjustments after picking us up on sensors. Still I don't know that I'd want to risk my tow truck and the guys with my repair parts getting shot up.

If we had 30 delta flyers with pattern repeaters rigged for emergency transport I'd be less hesitant about this ship mixing things up. Though losing the cargo pod and not having an internal bay sounds like a ship that could become a liability after the battle is over.
True, there is plenty of reason to hold this sort of ship back if you can get away with it, but especially if you are getting attacked rather than attacking it's not always a choice you get to make.

If it throws it's weight into a fight it won't go unnoticed.
I want extra internal tanks so that the ship has standard or low standard range for the Warp 8 era. If it can go 140 light years a ~century from now it would be make a great case for a refit to modernize it's fabrication suites then just scrapping it.
My vote will depend on what other options we have for that space. I absolutely can see the utility of extra antimatter tanks, but there is a solid chance that there will be an option that tempts me more.
 
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It's nothing special, but you don't need to be special to be worth tonnage in battle.
Right.

I mean, I'm pretty sure in a one-on-one fight between a Halley and a Newton the Newton will pretty reliably win, but it'd be a fight, you know? Not an execution. And the Newton won't bring nearly the utility to the rest of the fleet the Halley will, just based on the choices we've already made.
 
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