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- Utrecht
We are ghosts too. Vau-Vulkesh didn't make it either.
A Different Breed (Warhammer 29K)
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That's exaggeration. Biel-Tan might be responsible for some loses from every faction but more probably then not Chaos probably got the rest. Slaanesh explicitly targeted some Craftworld's.
Other factions probably got mugged by other cosmic threats but i find it highly unlikely that Biel-Tan managed to destroy most of these.
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Spooky. I guess it fits with our black armor.
- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
They kiss!
Or at least, we can dream!
- Location
- Germany
This is pretty much Biel-Tans operating modus:
So yes they are pretty much chaos proxies with their actions.
They are just making things worse for everyone else.
So yes they are pretty much chaos proxies with their actions.
They are just making things worse for everyone else.
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That's how every major power in Warhammer operates and not just Eldari. Empire as well, including the Emperor.
Its canonical fact that Eldar would sacrifice entire human race if they could survive and vice versa and that Empire destroyed countless other human civilizations that disagreed with it.
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The Froggy Ninja
The Blade Will Never Die
My point is that we're going to be provoking Biel-Tan regardless. Or rather Saim-Hann is. There is no outcome to pointing out their crimes in front of everyone that results in them going "oh whoopsie doopsie, guess we'll stop" instead of "these ungrateful savages are questioning our divine right to take whatever we want from anyone weaker than us, lets plot vengence". The only question is if we take a significant risk trying to nip that shit in the bud now, or just leave it as a ticking time bomb that'll go off the moment something causes vigilance to slip?
Because of the precedent. If BT isn't actually punished, then we've established that you're allowed to kill and loot and sacrifice the good of the species if you have a big enough stick. Biel-Tan fundamentally cannot be trusted with this revelation.
I'm talking about the Dominion. Iyanden is desperately trying to pretend that the Dominion is still a thing or could soon return to being a thing, and a big part of their political power is their perceived legitimacy of its inheritors. If they just let the enslavement, robbery and soul-death of the Aeldari go with a "and don't do it again" then they'll be fucking up that perception of legitimacy even more than initially allying with BT in the first place already will.
Again, I'm not suggesting a conventional military assault and we absolutely should not "get used to" having a loose cannon with even more of a chip on their shoulder running around shooting blindly into the crowed. Yes, if nipping the Biel-Tan issue in the bud goes south it could fuck up our species, but you know what else could fuck up our species? The Commorraghites finally poking their heads out of the Webway and Biel-Tan going like "hmm... One of our largest cities survived the fall with significant stores of intact relics. These guys are a better shot at rebuilding the Dominion than those useless ingrates who took our rightfully 'rescued' artifacts away!"
Again, it's not theoretical kinslaying and feeding souls, we know for a fact they've already attacked Craftworlds and left them for the local powers to finish off and that the vast majority of Craftworlds don't have enough Spirit Stones to house their entire populations, even aside from the risk of Daemons just nabbing the unguarded stones once everyone's dead. And I'm not suggesting we kill them and leave them to the Thirst. I literally mentioned that in the original plan. Try for non-lethal but, worst case, the leadership we're trying to take out will all have Spirit Stones anyway, and the rest can just be given community service for their complacency or whatever the Aeldmoot decides.
Yeah, and that fucked up the future so bad that someone threw a light into the past to ensure our survival so hopefully the grimderp doesn't kill us all.
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- Location
- Germany
The every major power operates likes that is fucking stupid because this isn't about that.
It's about how fucking stupid and harmful Biel-Tans actions are to everyone around them including themselves.
Just murder your away to "victory" including lots of other eldar while behaving a lot like dark eldar when your race is on the brink of extinction is just the normal thing to do sure.
They are chaos proxies because they do their fucking chaos job for them.
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Honestly the optimal outcome is to make sure that everyone else despises Beil-Tan as much as us or at least that the minor powers know to get the protection of 'litterally any other non-De Eldar faction' ans then let the Imperium wannabes either with on the fine because they keep throwing good money after bad or shape up.
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F0lkL0re
Officially not an Inquisitor
- Location
- Shetland
@Profilozof do you think you could maybe add a line in the Asuryani section of the plan about seeing if reconciliation with Alaitoc is possible?
I could, but I am not sure how to word it to fit it in. I mean Alaitoc's reaction to us will likely be very different when our rejection of the paths comes with us having proof to back it up.
- Location
- Utrecht
I don't think it's possible without the info-bomb. We'll probably have some days after the moot to try diplomacy again.
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- Reader
... you do realize that we are soon to be the foremost Adaptionist craft world as the Asuryani and Revanchist factions implode from our and Saim-han's info bombs right? with natural survivalist support to boot since the ability to repopulate is essential to long-term survival of the aeldari species. with this we are soon to be effectively the lead voice in one of 3 factions with the majority of the Aeldari population and naval strength, on good terms with the other two. It's not a small amount of power.
but it is true we can't claim goods not stolen from us. we can however nudge Saim-han and Ulthwe into putting Beil-tan to work retreiving soul stones for craft worlds more at threat than us and less capable of acquiring there own.
relax. they only destroyed the somewhat successful ones. the rest became Asuryani. of course, we are majorly successful in a way which kind of encourages our entire race to not settle for mere survival and possibly fucks up all there goals, but that's what people voted for.
based on the way it's written we'll send people who haven't called their leaders aims the acts of a fool publicly to see about finding level headed Asuryani close enough to him to gauge the possibility of an agreement to put the past behind us. with us calling this moot it can either go very well or very badly.
if it goes well, then people like Draylin of the truesight, Seerlord of Meros and our respective military lords are deemed important enough, and a large industrial craftworld with powerful relics worthwhile enough to be on good terms with that when Autarch Tyrellian Kulkessrin learns about it, he reaches back to establish that an attempt to meet would be well received.
Alternatively, he could decide since we are responsible for this moot and he doesn't know our intentions, but we are approaching his people rather than him directly we have some manner of political scheme in play to poach them, and he may quietly or not so quietly confront us, or simply close ranks.
there is a tiny chance he ignores us, but inaddition to boring that seems like a rather laid back move for the person pushing the Asuryani paths as the solution to Slaanesh.
Rule 4: Don’t Be Disruptive
Just wonderful. The Engagement! The Feelings of rigtheous Indignation! *Gets more Popcorn*
That Infodrop will be hilarious. I am not going to worry over anything before that.
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We are revealing this to make sure it doesn't repeat again and to get other major Craftworld's to rein Biel-Tan in. Something Iyanden on its own is capable to do, let alone rest of them.
Biel-Tan is smart enough to acknowledge the fact that they need to do these raids in secrets. This means that they are weary sensitive to their reputation and reprimandion from other Craftworld's. This means they can be reasoned with to some measure and can be incetivized to behave.
Their punishment will be dealt with accordingly, but it will hardly be complete and utter destruction of their leadership, or some other dictate. Ultimately we are in no position to dictate Eldar morality here, or morality of universe at large.
A reasonable punishment that berates Biel-Tan and that ultimately doesn't alienates it to much will probably be given.
That won't be a problem if every other Craftworld agrees to this. Also Iyanden is weary well aware of reapolitics and how everyone ignored that greater authority when they shared Soulstones with rest of the Eldar. They won't sacrifice themselves over this.
For Iyanden restoration of Dominion is a work in progress.
So you are saying that we should avoid potential, theoretical risk of Biel-Tan becoming a major threat to Eldari Race in the future by taking a risk right now and potentially making them a threat to Eldar Race future right now with potentially crippling effects?
I would rather kick that can down the road and wait and see how we, Biel-Tan and Eldari at large develop.
My point is that Aeldmoot doesn't have the unity, nor authority for this. This isn't some inter Eldar political structure, it's one time meeting between independent Eldar powers. Before Aeldmoot even decides on these things Biel-Tan will be away on the next side of the universe as they can just leave the meeting.
Also no Craftworld will hand over its leadership without a major war, that's to extreme. It's basically equivalent of Alaitoc calling Aeldmoot and then pushing for resolution that bans experimentation on Eldar Souls and deviation from the paths and then asks for us to hand over our leadership for the attempts to experiment on Eldar race with potentially dangerous consequences.
It's a setting we live in. Point is this is behavior of major players and we should get used to it. My another point is to seek peaceful solutions first with realistic and acceptable conditions opposed to calling for war and further Kinslaying.
Soon, but not for this Aeldmoot where this question will be asked. Otherwise my entire counterpoint was against aggressive actions.
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I am hoping for new Hulls for our Designs. Then stick as much Dakka on it as possible. I want the Orks to give up on Gork and Mork and worship us instead. For we are brutally cunning and cunningly brutal!
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Just wonderful. The Engagement! The Feelings of rigtheous Indignation! *Gets more Popcorn*
That Infodrop will be hilarious. I am not going to worry over anything before that.
Well I'm glad discussion is fun for you. It's quite engaging for me.
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[X] Plan: To Create Opportunities and see what the ember of old knows
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- Reader
Iyanden is going to be looking to run damage control, and Saim-han and the 60 worlds backing them before there reveal got them some new allies aren't going to just be shushed into accepting that it's being dealt with, and we have Iyanden's favor. there are three days before the reveal and there will be at least one after and if we feed Iyanden a means of damage control that ties up a moderate or large percentage of Beil-tan's martial strength so they have less to leverage towards malicious actions, they'll take it.
would you settle for artillery instead?
Indeed. hoping to send a line fleet and a pair of warhosts to escort civilians to tug scrap back to the system our craft world is in. see about. probably won't touch them for a good while, but having them and denying them to Orks is worth doing.
F0lkL0re
Officially not an Inquisitor
- Location
- Shetland
I already did that though I might revise that design due to the cost of changing slots and besides just try telling me that having the ability to literally quarter a titan doesn't appeal to you.
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- He/Him
The Asuryani aren't going to implode--their solution still clearly works, at least in the short term. They'll adjust their approach with the new information, but its hardly reason to abandon it.
The Revanchists, now, we might be able to break apart if we play our cards right.
