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To be honest I don't really mind TSS getting.. ..edited.. as IMO it's Timestop I Win abilities was kind of.. not very desirable. Yeah sure it was incredibly powerful and the new version is worse since it's capabilities are lesser, but, like, it was also kind of overpowered and was starting to have a tendency of us going 'Now we go Homura and win the battle'. From a gameplay perspective, patching it to improve the ability of people to counter it is substantially better. Basically Greater Time Stop too OP, it needed to be nerfed either in this manner OR it needed more and more enemies with a counter to TSS. The former is preferable.

I would have preferred the fight to have been messier and not-retconned, though. Even though it would have been less-than-optimal.

The changes to Time Stands Still's mechanics had already given people the ability to break out of the Stopped Time, either by passing an opposed check, or having their own cool super-duper techniques. Anyone sufficiently badass could potentially resist or counter TSS, as our cousin did during our spar in Skane, or Jogrim just now for that matter, so I'm not sure functionally what has changed. With Iron Embrace we lose some of the utility applications, like using TSS as a way to move at effectively infinite speed across short distances, but that was not really the complaint here? Fundamentally Iron Embrace will still let us immobilise people and kill them, but not if they pass some threshold of strength/narrative weight - just like Time Stands Still did. Nothing has changed.

Indeed Iron Embrace reframes the whole technique being explicitly focussed around imprisoning people so we can shank them, rather than Halla being so cool and powerful she can temporarily escape the bonds of time. It's a less thematically and visually cool way of doing an identical thing, which retains identical problems (if you can consider them to be problems) in terms of gameplay. Personally I didn't think Time Stands Still was that problematic because it was pretty clear Halla was in the big leagues now anyway, and it's not dissimilar to the bullshit other heavy hitters can throw around.

But if you did consider it a problem that TSS was very convenient trivialising certain fights against mostly weaker opponents... Iron Embrace still has that problem, and thematically centres it to a far greater degree than TSS did. Which is part of why I find this kind of odd; I don't understand the problem it was attempting to solve.
 
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The changes to Time Stands Still's mechanics had already given people the ability to break out of the Stopped Time, either by passing an opposed check, or having their own cool super-duper techniques. Anyone sufficiently badass could potentially resist or counter TSS, as our cousin did during our spar in Skane, or Jogrim just now for that matter, so I'm not sure functionally what has changed. With Iron Embrace we lose some of the utility applications, like using TSS as a way to move at effectively infinite speed across short distances, but that was not really the complaint here? Fundamentally Iron Embrace will still let us immobilise people and kill them, but not if they pass some threshold of strength/narrative weight - just like Time Stands Still did. Nothing has changed.

Indeed Iron Embrace reframes the whole technique being explicitly focussed around imprisoning people so we can shank them, rather than Halla being so cool and powerful she can temporarily escape the bonds of time. It's a less thematically and visually cool way of doing an identical thing, which retains identical problems (if you can consider them to be problems) in terms of gameplay. Personally I didn't think Time Stands Still was that problematic because it was pretty clear Halla was in the big leagues now anyway, and it's not dissimilar to the bullshit other heavy hitters can throw around.

But if you did consider it a problem that TSS was very convenient trivialising certain fights against mostly weaker opponents... Iron Embrace still has that problem, and thematically centres it to a far greater degree than TSS did. Which is part of why I find this kind of odd; I don't understand the problem it was attempting to solve.
Passing the hamr/hugr check only lets you be aware during it. Our cousin breaking free of TSS in his specific manner is part of the 'and people with counters to TSS' sort-of-nerfs happening. Iron Embrace requires no Hamr/Hugr check, and can be broken free off more plausibly than TSS.
 
While this is cool, will we see that boon? Like.. if their first child just... doesn't wind up with the PC of NQ2, it's basically a nothing.

I suspect if we go with it that kid will join our protagonist.

If we select this, we better pick Hallbjorn as the PC of NQ2!

Even if he isn't, him getting cool stuff will still help his siblings, IMO.

Indeed Iron Embrace reframes the whole technique being explicitly focussed around imprisoning people so we can shank them, rather than Halla being so cool and powerful she can temporarily escape the bonds of time. It's a less thematically and visually cool way of doing an identical thing, which retains identical problems (if you can consider them to be problems) in terms of gameplay.

I have to disagree with this. I don't think TSS was an insoluble problem or anything, but the new version does actually power it down a bit. It effectively causes an auto-win for the defender on what was a roll previously (ie: they are automatically aware) and lets them potentially actually do things that don't involve movement (something not allowed outside of specific stuff in the old version). It's not a huge nerf, but it does actually open up our opponents options against the technique in a meaningful fashion.

I also don't agree that the thematics were particularly different. TSS was always about freezing everyone...the exact way we do that is not a major thematic difference, I don't feel. 'Escape the bounds of time' was never what this Trick did...it trapped others within them, and that was always the vibe it gave.
 
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For what it's worth, I quite liked the update and the ret-con.

The old figure deleting Halla from (double-frozen?) time was actually rather interesting imo, and I quite liked it.
It felt rather appropriate to a Xianxia inspired world that there was some hidden master hiding out in frozen time who could perfectly erase Halla and edit her powers, but hadn't done so before she met him because he didn't expect it.
Like, I have no issue with larger scope enemies/allies being introduced way before you should meet them normally, it helps the world to feel full of possibility and not just level-appropriate encounters.
Additionally, assuming that this old man character wasn't just made up on the spot, but was always going to be in the story I like that we have proof that someone (seemingly) impotent can still be surprised or 'defeated' by the actions of those weaker than them.

Regarding the ret-con of TSS to Iron Embrace, I like the theming more for Iron embrace.
Personal taste more than likely, but I prefer weaklings unable to stand against the weight of our souls (iron embrace), instead of 'stab the mannequin before it turns back into a real boy' (TSS).
 
The Three Laws (Shard)
The Three Laws

All[1] Men[2] Die[3]

[1] Exceptions may apply. Consult your local Nornir on whether you may be granted an exemption and on what basis.

[2] Men in this context is defined specifically defined as a human of Norse culture. Gender is not considered. Mythical creatures such as Trolls, Bergsra, Einherjar, Svartalfar, Dwarves, Elves, Abysslings, Draugar, Dragons, Fenriskin, Giants, Foemen, Nisse, Vitra or animals (including awakened ones) such as Bears, Owls, Owlbears and so forth are not considered as 'Men' for purposes of this law. If you are of mixed ancestry, such as Carolingan Human-Norse Human, Norse Human-Norse Elf, Norse Elf - Slav Human or the many more variations possible, please consult your local Nornir as to whether or not you are considered 'Men' for purposes of this law.

[3] Die should be understood as 'forced to no longer be present on Midgard barring exceptional circumstances'. Exceptions and special circumstances may result in unusual interpretation of 'Die'. Consult with your local Nornir if you are a Steelfather, a reincarnate, time traveler or entity which may require special rulings on your interactions with Midgard. May or may not apply on a case by case basis in regards to Norse Humans who are no longer of Norse culture; Consult with your local divinities in such cases.

Power[4] Demands[5] Sacrifice[6]

[4] Power is defined as capability including but not excluded to Orthstirr and ability to gain Orthstirr. Things considered as power include Seersight (all variations), ability to fight, shape-shifting, ability to use Seidr, all forms of nonstandard soul types, Shapecrafting, wealth including ownership of property, Skaldic abilities, Odr cultivation, ability to read runes and many more. Power should be understood as 'capabilities exclusive to Norse Culture' - If gaining capabiltiies from another culture, such as Carolingan, Slav or Finnish, consult the local culture's management of capabilities among cultivators.

[5] Demand here is referred to specifically as 'make a demand of'. Specifically, it should be understood that Power Demands Sacrifice in the same sense that a Karl may demand weregild for another Karl damages inflicted. Exceptions may apply. It is not recommended to refuse.

[6] Sacrifice may take on many forms; Aesthetic changes, changes in mood, time spent, oaths, reputational changes, increased obligations, slain enemies, dead family, temporary loss of blood, limb, pain, winning battles, work, wealth, and so forth. Note that just as weregild need not be paid by the person who has caused the harm, the 'sacrifice' need not necessarily be paid by the person gaining the power. It is acceptable for sacrifice to be paid by volunteers; Involuntary sacrifice will be considered on a case by case basis.

Memory[7] is[8] Forever[9]

[7] Memory is considered to be the ability to recall events.

[8] Value judgement. See 'Diamonds are forever' for similar value judgements.

[9] Nornir.Inc is not responsible for forgetfulness or the change in emotional valence applied to memories nor fabrications. Ensuring that others remember you, specifically, is your own personal responsibility. Nornir.Inc does not adjudicate the memorization capability of non-Norsemen and also do not enforce a total recall policy among Norsemen. Remember, only you can ensure that your legend lives forever!

@Imperial Fister

My thoughts on the Three Laws of Norse Cultivation.
 
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As I mention above, Iron Embrace is mostly the same mechanically, it just freezes people by putting unbearable weight on them instead of freezing time. It remains part of the unknown Style (probably Iron Hill, the Bornholm Style, IMO), and so on, it just doesn't strictly freeze time.
While it's the same mechanically, it feels far less cool, and makes less sense thematically for something we discovered from Standstill. I mean, there are lots of cooler concepts that aren't freezing time. Like freezing space. Or even just slowing time so much it looks frozen. Both are less prone to temporal wierdness(reflecting slowed time will probably just slow it further still not stop it, and reflecting frozen space will just keep it frozen and won't effect the timer). It also makes more sense since TSS would stop not only opponents, but everything on the battlefield, and everything would remain in place. Putting weight on enemies doesn't do that(unless you mean you put massive amounts of mass on them as to slow time due to relativistic effects
 
[X] Kare and Vesna's first child will receive a massive boon
[X] Hallbjorn, inspired by the bloodlessness of your battle, will begin exploring other methods of bloodless fighting

I feel pretty bad about not voting for Ingulf, but at the end of the day I don't have any ideas (that I think are good ideas) for how to help him. :cry:
 
WHAT. THE. FUCK. DID. I. JUST. READ?!

I go to sleep, and when i wake up Halla has apparently broken reality and forced the Written World to reboot and retcon the mess she helped create.

I actualy checked if someone slipped drugs in my drink.

I said it before, and i say it again. I LOVE THIS QUEST!

[X] Kare and Vesna's first child will receive a massive boon
[X] Hallbjorn, inspired by the bloodlessness of your battle, will begin exploring other methods of bloodless fighting
 
WHAT. THE. FUCK. DID. I. JUST. READ?!

I go to sleep, and when i wake up Halla has apparently broken reality and forced the Written World to reboot and retcon the mess she helped create.

I actualy checked if someone slipped drugs in my drink.

I said it before, and i say it again. I LOVE THIS QUEST!
To be fair, it wasn't Halla's fault that we broke reality. Also what's more spooky is the fact that she was technically awake during the downtime.
 
To be fair, it wasn't Halla's fault that we broke reality. Also what's more spooky is the fact that she was technically awake during the downtime.

Fair enough.

But if Halla is not EXTREMELY traumatized by the whole expirience in the next chapter, i will be disappointed.

I mean, if REALITY BREAKING AND REMAKING ITSELF ARAOUND YOU dosen't give you some Sanity damage. I don't know what can.

At least, seeing the Garden of World Trees should give Halla and Blackhand a major existensial crisis.
 
Fair enough.

But if Halla is not EXTREMELY traumatized by the whole expirience in the next chapter, i will be disappointed.

I mean, if REALITY BREAKING AND REMAKING ITSELF ARAOUND YOU dosen't give you some Sanity damage. I don't know what can.

At least, seeing the Garden of World Trees should give Halla and Blackhand a major existensial crisis.
I mean it's not the first time Halla had this happen to her. The Garden of World trees is new however.
 
[X] Kare and Vesna's first child will receive a massive boon
[X] Hallbjorn, inspired by the bloodlessness of your battle, will begin exploring other methods of bloodless fighting

That was definitely interesting.

If Iron Embrace/Time Stand Still and stutter step are under Imprisonment, does that mean there is a possible trick in that Hugreida called crab bucket? 🤔

Edit: We sure we saw world trees? because for all we know, the reflected TSS might just sent us to Ironjaw, what with TSS/Iron Embrace being from one of his styles, and it being reflected meant Halla was sent there, spiritually, because thats how she got the style as well.
Might even be to Ironjaw's own soulworld what we seen, not just a strange orchard he has on his island...
 
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Passing the hamr/hugr check only lets you be aware during it. Our cousin breaking free of TSS in his specific manner is part of the 'and people with counters to TSS' sort-of-nerfs happening. Iron Embrace requires no Hamr/Hugr check, and can be broken free off more plausibly than TSS.

The rules change I had advocated for was that passing the check lets someone start to break out of it. But there was pushback from people (including you) arguing that this would nerf it too much. It would definitely have been better if passing the check let them start to break out, if nothing else then because it's a much cooler scene, but it's not important for this discussion.

Ultimately, Fister is the one who decides whether people we fight had techniques that could break free from or counter TSS. Fister is the one who decides whether our opponents can break out of Iron Embrace, or has techniques they can use whilst they're in it. They are functionally identical in terms of their actual gameplay effect in the quest, so the idea that Iron Embrace addresses some problem is patently ludicrous.

I have to disagree with this. I don't think TSS was an insoluble problem or anything, but the new version does actually power it down a bit. It effectively causes an auto-win for the defender on what was a roll previously (ie: they are automatically aware) and lets them potentially actually do things that don't involve movement (something not allowed outside of specific stuff in the old version). It's not a huge nerf, but it does actually open up our opponents options against the technique in a meaningful fashion.

I also don't agree that the thematics were particularly different. TSS was always about freezing everyone...the exact way we do that is not a major thematic difference, I don't feel. 'Escape the bounds of time' was never what this Trick did...it trapped others within them, and that was always the vibe it gave.

This is true, but not really relevant to the concern being brought up, which is about TSS's ability to let us shank people without them doing anything. Also with both the old and the new versions, fundamentally, an opponent's ability to resist comes down to how Bad of a Dude they are, the narrative importance of the fight to the plot, and what abilities Fister decides they have. The opposed check rule for TSS was never going to be why actual relevant opponents would break out of TSS; especially because of how limited and stupid it was.

On the thematics, I have to disagree. As the originator of the idea, Time Stands Still always felt to me like it was Halla harnessing her inner power and moving outside of time, not about immobilising or trapping people. They were trapped because they simply couldn't keep up with us. It's a different emphasis, and aesthetically, moving into a world of Stopped Time is just vastly cooler to me. But this may be a question of taste.
 
While it's the same mechanically, it feels far less cool, and makes less sense thematically for something we discovered from Standstill. I mean, there are lots of cooler concepts that aren't freezing time. Like freezing space. Or even just slowing time so much it looks frozen. Both are less prone to temporal wierdness(reflecting slowed time will probably just slow it further still not stop it, and reflecting frozen space will just keep it frozen and won't effect the timer). It also makes more sense since TSS would stop not only opponents, but everything on the battlefield, and everything would remain in place. Putting weight on enemies doesn't do that(unless you mean you put massive amounts of mass on them as to slow time due to relativistic effects

I personally think weight works fine for this, though the others would also be acceptable. But for the record, I had no actual input into it being that way.

Ultimately, Fister is the one who decides whether people we fight had techniques that could break free from or counter TSS. Fister is the one who decides whether our opponents can break out of Iron Embrace, or has techniques they can use whilst they're in it. They are functionally identical in terms of their actual gameplay effect in the quest, so the idea that Iron Embrace addresses some problem is patently ludicrous.

It addresses a verisimilitude problem. Everyone badass having a way to break out of TSS didn't make actual in-universe sense at all, while most badasses having a way to do stuff while they can't move is a lot more reasonable. The mechanical difference is not a huge deal inasmuch as IF can give NPCs whatever abilities they need, but the worldbuilding difference is pretty meaningful and a big improvement, IMO.

There were certainly other ways to address that, including allowing them to do more when they succeeded at the check, but it was an issue in need of addressing, I think. Like, it started to feel unfair and unfun due to how implausible it was if everyone we fought had specific anti-time-stop options, and that was becoming a concern.

On the thematics, I have to disagree. As the originator of the idea, Time Stands Still always felt to me like it was Halla harnessing her inner power and moving outside of time, not about immobilising or trapping people. They were trapped because they simply couldn't keep up with us. It's a different emphasis, and aesthetically, moving into a world of Stopped Time is just vastly cooler to me. But this may be a question of taste.

You may have originated it, but the actual version we got was never quite what you were aiming for. That's true of a lot of the Tricks we have, and an interesting aspect of this Quest IMO, we aim for things, but then we get the closest thing that is roughly equivalent, not necessarily exactly what we tried for.

Per IF, the Style this was based on was always an Imprisonment Style (which makes sense to me), and thus the thing that was actually happening was always trapping people and portrayed as such. And indeed, in a pure vibes sense, that was always what I felt was happening as well...the helplessness of the people involved was emphasized a few times, even. I'm struck by the fact that when we were arguing that it wasn't odreng the argument that convinced IF that it indeed was not was you specifically mentioning imprisoning people (specifically, trapping them in a house while you burned it down).

Whether stopped time is cooler is much more subjective. wabbitking mentioned just a bit ago that they think the new version is cooler, for instance. I'm personally ambivalent on that...I will say I think it's a lot cooler for our technique to be a bit less overpowering than for everyone to have a weirdly specific counter, though. That would start grating real quick as things proceeded.
 
I don't think putting massive chains of weight on people is cooler than time stop, but I do think Imprisonment is a cooler thematic than Time Manipulation. I do think time manipulation is a higher concept than gravity control for the most part, and definitely the conceptually strongest powers Halla had engaged with.

That being said, I don't think it's bad for her to not casually be capable of full area time stops. If we were more prone to using Finales as round 6 ace in the holes maaaybe. But as is, I feel like something like stopping time would be better off as some sort of eleventh hour super move when we are out of resources and desperate, instead of something we can do more freely.

To put it in video game terms, FTB and Thermic Reckoning feel like level 1 limit breaks. Breaking those out after only a turn or two feels right, because they exist to kill someone dead but thats the extent of them.

Time Stands Still felt like a level 3 limit break. Unless you had a special cheat code of your own all you could do is see your doom as Halla moves around alone.

The new version still feels more conceptually powerful than either of our Stoker State finales, but more akin to a level 2 limit break. Weighing people down in gravity is still cooler and more deep than BIG FIRE. But not as much so as time.
 
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Personally I feel we just generally bust out Finales too early. Like narrative, that is. Obviously from a mechanics stand point you want to bust it out early.
 
It addresses a verisimilitude problem. Everyone badass having a way to break out of TSS didn't make actual in-universe sense at all, while most badasses having a way to do stuff while they can't move is a lot more reasonable. The mechanical difference is not a huge deal inasmuch as IF can give NPCs whatever abilities they need, but the worldbuilding difference is pretty meaningful and a big improvement, IMO.

There were certainly other ways to address that, including allowing them to do more when they succeeded at the check, but it was an issue in need of addressing, I think. Like, it started to feel unfair and unfun due to how implausible it was if everyone we fought had specific anti-time-stop options, and that was becoming a concern.

You may have originated it, but the actual version we got was never quite what you were aiming for. That's true of a lot of the Tricks we have, and an interesting aspect of this Quest IMO, we aim for things, but then we get the closest thing that is roughly equivalent, not necessarily exactly what we tried for.

Per IF, the Style this was based on was always an Imprisonment Style (which makes sense to me), and thus the thing that was actually happening was always trapping people and portrayed as such. And indeed, in a pure vibes sense, that was always what I felt was happening as well...the helplessness of the people involved was emphasized a few times, even. I'm struck by the fact that when we were arguing that it wasn't odreng the argument that convinced IF that it indeed was not was you specifically mentioning imprisoning people (specifically, trapping them in a house while you burned it down).

Whether stopped time is cooler is much more subjective. wabbitking mentioned just a bit ago that they think the new version is cooler, for instance. I'm personally ambivalent on that...I will say I think it's a lot cooler for our technique to be a bit less overpowering than for everyone to have a weirdly specific counter, though. That would start grating real quick as things proceeded.

Fundamentally I don't really think we're going to agree here, because this is partly subjective, but I will try and lay out my thoughts.

Regarding Time Stands Still, I don't think there was a verisimilitude problem. If we were fighting very badass people every week, then perhaps, but there's a variety of ways to make it not an issue. For one thing, many of the more challenging opponents we might fight simply can't be hurt by most attacks anyway, meaning TSS would only ever be a delaying tactic or way of enabling some clever plan. It did not combine tremendously well with our other Finales, limiting the ability to use it for oneshotting people. It also did not need to be perfectly reliable as an offensive option for it to be a great way to escape trouble; in a lot of our planning we had it as a last ditch contingency for that option. Ultimately it was a powerful ability, but there are lots of characters with powerful abilities in fiction, the metaphysics of the setting explicitly run on narrative rules which makes justifying why My Kung-Fu is Stronger a lot easier, and it does not really stop fights being compelling.

In terms of decisively altering the outcome of fights, what it did do was give Halla a clear advantage against people significantly weaker than her, and make it clear that she would generally win fights even against multiple mook-level foes. It does not seem to me that Iron Embrace fundamentally alters this very much, and I don't think it was fundamentally a problem in the first place. Perhaps it comes down to different expectations of what the quest should be and where Halla is right now. It feels like one point of contention here is that many players slightly uncomfortable with how much Halla had outgrown the average Norse landowner/cultivator; perhaps because this would force us to step out onto a larger stage, and take on stronger opponents.

In terms of the aesthetics and thematic resonance of Time Stands Still, I'm afraid I do have to disagree with you, although I apologise as I suspect this is not that interesting to keep repeating. To be clear this isn't a matter of me wanting to impose my headcanon; the theming and descriptions of the early scenes where we developed and first experimented with TSS were all written in terms of Halla being incredibly fast and seeming to vanish to others, her lungs and limbs burning with the stress of exertion, and so on. Whether or not the parent style was "always" about imprisonment has no bearing on the way those scenes were written, which is what I'm talking about. The only time I think you can say that a "imprisonment" theming is really present is in the fight against the raiders, and that's because IF was struggling at the time with whether it was Dreng or not.

Regarding that point specifically, I did bring up the example of houseburning as "all's fair in love and war", but not as an example of imprisonment specifically, although I can see how one could find that reading. My point that if everyone is sword wizards, it's not really fair to go "your ultimate technique is too strong". Ultimately Time Stands Still, Iron Embrace, or any Super Duper Ultimate Technique is fundamentally not that different - they're all used for the purpose one might use an especially sharp rock. If someone wants to live by the sword, and is comfortable using that sword on others weaker than them, then they don't get to complain when someone even stronger brings a gun.

Anyway, I'm not sure how productive relitigating this endlessly will be, and I apologise to players who don't care and simply want to move on.
 
I'm not going to get too wordy on the Time Stands Still vs Iron Vambrace debate, but Iron Vambrace only feels like a mechnical replacement and not a narrative one to me. I've always seen Time Stands Still and Standstill to be time manipulation not imprisonment so Iron Vambrace doesn't feel like it ties in with what we've done in the quest so far and is coming out of the blue.

On the other hand, the mountain of iron and the helpness of Time Stand Still on its victims have come up before so it doesn't feel completely out of the left field and things being reconned due to a time-whammy stuff seems cool, but at the same time, I'm only making sense of the situation when I stop looking at as a player of this quest and start looking at with my perspective as someone who runs their own quests. Aka it only makes sense to me if I stop looking at the matter as a voter and start trying to figure out how I would be handling things as a QM in the same situation.

All of that said, it has only been one update and I'm going to reserve judgement until future updates come out to see how it is handled going forward.
Personally I feel we just generally bust out Finales too early. Like narrative, that is. Obviously from a mechanics stand point you want to bust it out early.
This sort of an issue I have with how Finales work. Narratively, we're told they're supposed to be big moves we bust out to end a fight, but mechanically, they are an expensive, but powerful move we can bust out in a fight. As things are currently set up, the incentives are set up to encourage earlier usage of Finales to give you the upper hand. We're not a video game boss who saves their strongest move until last to give the player a challenge. If Finales are to be reserved until the later stages of a fight, then more limitations need to be placed upon them to actually enourage that behaviour like only being able to use after a certain amount of turns have passed or our health or orthsirr has been lovered to a certain point or we can only use one per battle.

As they currenly work, Finales aren't something you use to finish a fight, they are a powerful move you bust out as soon as possible to get the upper hand if you can afford the cost of using them.
 
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While it's the same mechanically, it feels far less cool, and makes less sense thematically for something we discovered from Standstill. I mean, there are lots of cooler concepts that aren't freezing time. Like freezing space. Or even just slowing time so much it looks frozen. Both are less prone to temporal wierdness(reflecting slowed time will probably just slow it further still not stop it, and reflecting frozen space will just keep it frozen and won't effect the timer). It also makes more sense since TSS would stop not only opponents, but everything on the battlefield, and everything would remain in place. Putting weight on enemies doesn't do that(unless you mean you put massive amounts of mass on them as to slow time due to relativistic effects
@Imperial Fister would replacing it with something more in line of space freezing(basically like a very wide IAT)/high level time slow work? Obviously your call, but those two seem like they would be closer to original TSS in feel, yet get over time issues and balance issue(breaking out of both is quite feasible I think). What do you think?
 
I'm not going to get too wordy on the Time Stands Still vs Iron Vambrace debate, but Iron Vambrace only feels like a mechnical replacement and not a narrative one to me. I've always seen Time Stands Still and Standstill to be time manipulation not imprisonment so Iron Vambrace doesn't feel like it ties in with what we've done in the quest so far and is coming out of the blue.

It was stated pretty explicitly early on that Standstill isn't time-manipulation. Not primarily, anyway, it's in the Momentum category for a reason, it manipulates motion and physical forces. Time is sorta at the edges of that, but so is weighing people down. But also, TSS (and now Iron Embrace) are not actually Standstill they're...adjacent, but not really the same thing.

I'd be fine with slightly different theming on Iron Embrace, but Standstill is not and has never been time manipulation at its core.
 
WHAT. THE. FUCK. DID. I. JUST. READ?!

I go to sleep, and when i wake up Halla has apparently broken reality and forced the Written World to reboot and retcon the mess she helped create.
Hypothesis: shit like this actually happens all the time. Halla is by no means unique in making shit like this happen. At truly high, divine or trans-divine levels of power and knowledge, it becomes apparent that the cosmos is much jankier than mortals or juniors believe, and is mostly held together by the transcendental versions of chewing gum and baling wire.

Especially in the Norse parts of the cosmos, where there's a bunch of goddamn crazy Viking cultivators whose collective understanding of the laws of reality is far, far, far behind their collective understanding of how to break those laws, to the point where Shit Just Happens and they shrug and deal with it.

Edit: We sure we saw world trees? because for all we know, the reflected TSS might just sent us to Ironjaw, what with TSS/Iron Embrace being from one of his styles, and it being reflected meant Halla was sent there, spiritually, because thats how she got the style as well.
Might even be to Ironjaw's own soulworld what we seen, not just a strange orchard he has on his island...
Hey, Blackhand, do you have any idea what the fuck just happened, and did you recognize that old guy with the, uh, weird smokable bowl or whatever that was?
 
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