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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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reignonyrparade said:
Once that physical infrastructure is there in a country, it can be studied and, with time and effort, reverse engineered.
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Some can. The waystone rune itself seems pretty permissive in its carving, for example. But good luck reverse engineering the dwarven runes for the capstone. Bretonnia has access to three lores of magic, so full-collegiate or quaysh solutions are also out. Rituals don't leave behind much trace of the components that went into them. And, man, we wish the leyline passphrases were reverse-engineerable.

Bretonnia could probably duplicate most of what the Jade College has provided, as well as the clockwork and "magical logic gate" mechanisms proposed for the foundation pieces. And if we did secure a titanmetal contract, traditional espionage could pull that out for their own negotiation.

I really don't know if they could cobble together their own solution based purely on observing the results of a Project waystone. Maybe. The cost of doing so would probably be higher than whatever cooperation we ask for as the Project's own price of entry, though.
 
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chocolote12 said:
A little bit above Nehekhara, there's a place called the Marshes of Madness. It's pretty close to the real Suez, and I'm eyeing the geography to see if we couldn't go about making our history a reality over there.

A water passage from the Old World to Cathay would change everything.

Of course, the planned route cuts through Nagash's personal swimming pool and the world's first Warpstone disposal pond, but I'm sure we can handle the various final bosses of canal construction with a proper end game build.
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There's also, to my recollection, a Orc & Goblin holy site in said Marshes called the Tree of Beards. So uh... there's definitely pros and cons to using Dwarf favour to help build this hypothetical canal.
 
Alternatively, a canal through Lustria to go to Cathay from the other direction. I'm sure that such a project would face no opposition from the Druchii or Lizardmen and have no logistical difficulties at all and would solve global transport forever.
 
Prime 2.0 said:
Oh. Don't get me wrong in the slightest, I absolutely want to go krump some mountain orcs regardless. We haven't fought orcs in ages, have we even gotten to use waaghsbane? Like, really use it?
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On one hand, that sounds fun. On the other hand, if we don't do it they'll have to find expert help somewhere else.

Asamaril: You're hiring us to do what?
Deathfang: I'm eating the sheep.
 
HanEmpire said:
Wouldn't the Slaan just do a geomantic ritual to get rid of the canal because it makes their maps wrong or something?
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That's option one. Option two is the Slaan deadlock because one of them has a map with a canal on it, or perhaps a dent that looks like a canal, and so they spend eons trying to decipher which map is wrong and which is right.
 
Boney said:
The rest of the path is trickier. Either Ind doesn't have rivers, which, uh, no, or the canonical maps omit them. If we assume they're there, then you'd still need to get across the Mountains of Heaven and to do that you'll need to deal with the Monkey King, and if he's anything like his namesake, that'll be fun. Alternately, in Total Warhammer Cathay already has a canal from their Great River to the gulf between Ind and Khuresh.
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For every river we actually see on the map there's probably a dozen lesser ones around.
 
Boney said:
He'll probably be at least checking in every now and then until the Project finishes a full Waystone prototype. Probably more, considering how the vote is going.
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Grumpy elf batman collaborator??? :blurryeyes:
Well, information deliverer, anyway. From his experience repairing the network in Yvresse and his general attitude it seems like he'll be fun to interact with!
 
@Andres
(Gotta @you because your whole post is a quote).

Yeah, we'll spread it around as much as possible, but we never said we'd do it for free. In fact, charging is the best way to do this. McDonalds has spread around the Hamburger as much as possible, and they still charge for it. Coca-Cola has done the same with soda.

If you want the Brettonians treating the new waystone like that one Imperial Noble did, giving it away for free is how you do this. If you want closer relations with Brettonia, however, you should charge them for it, because giving someone something free implies you gave them something worthless.
 
The vote won't be for quite a while yet, but once again, I would like to advocate for spending actual AP on the EIC next turn. We have so much stuff to do in there, and if it seems like putting the cart before the horse to start building its navy, it pays to remember that naval procurement is something you have to do very far in advance.

Also, illithmar. And mist road.
 
Andres said:
This wording sounds exceptionally and wholly weaselly.
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Giving it for free, to a nation which is
1) large and not exactly poor;
2) is not best buddies with any of the project members, and, in fact, had some notable wars with the Empire;
3) has its own magical tradition that could've contributed their expertise and risked their secrets for the project but didn't,
would be extremely rude to everyone who got the results, or is about to get the results, in exchange for a contribution. We wouldn't turn Bretonnia away if it wanted to buy the knowledge, and we wouldn't be unreasonable about the price, and that's the best anyone can reasonably hope for. We could do an Ulthuan and say "you are not worthy" or whatever.

Availability of goods and services is a big deal when they are unique. We don't have to give stuff for free to spread it around.
 
Boney said:
Well, if you build an underground river equal to that of the Chaos Dwarves' one to Uzkulak you could get to the Sour Sea from Ulrikadrin, which gets you to the Sea of Dread and to Ind. Alternatively you could treaty with Nehekhara and build one from the Great Mortis River to the Blight Water and from there to the Sour Sea. Both have big Nagash-shaped complications to them, but that just makes it fun.

The rest of the path is trickier. Either Ind doesn't have rivers, which, uh, no, or the canonical maps omit them. If we assume they're there, then you'd still need to get across the Mountains of Heaven and to do that you'll need to deal with the Monkey King, and if he's anything like his namesake, that'll be fun. Alternately, in Total Warhammer Cathay already has a canal from their Great River to the gulf between Ind and Khuresh.
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Marienburg reacting in horror as the Empire, Kislev, and Karaz Ankor dig canals connecting everywhere to make their city moot out of sheer spite will be a sight to see.

And House Foolger (spelling?) will probably be laughing all the while, chiding the rich merchants about underestimating the power of some well-deserved grudges.
 
Somic said:
Giving it for free, to a nation which is
1) large and not exactly poor;
2) is not best buddies with any of the project members, and, in fact, had some notable wars with the Empire;
3) has its own magical tradition that could've contributed their expertise and risked their secrets for the project but didn't,
would be extremely rude to everyone who got the results, or is about to get the results, in exchange for a contribution. We wouldn't turn Bretonnia away if it wanted to buy the knowledge, and we wouldn't be unreasonable about the price, and that's the best anyone can reasonably hope for. We could do an Ulthuan and say "you are not worthy" or whatever.

Availability of goods and services is a big deal when they are unique. We don't have to give stuff for free to spread it around.
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We should do what we need to do to spread it as widely as possible. If attaching a price tag limits our ability to spread it even a little, we should not. If they want to pay us even though they don't have to like the Asur are, sure, great for us, but it shouldn't be conditional.

I'm astounded you'd go so far as to make a claim so brazenly false as that it'd be extremely rude to the people who worked on the project. Those project members knew and accepted from the start that we'd seek to spread the benefits as widely as possible, which is why we told the Bretonnians we'd spread the benefits as widely as possible. Or am I to believe that Mathilde was lying to the Bretonnians? That all along, she knew the project members would get upset if we drained the world of as much harmful magic as possible, and then lied to look good for the purposes of diplomacy.
 
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[X] [BLOOD] Empire (Canal linking the Urskoy and Lynsk)
[X] [BLOOD] Kislevite military aid in reclaiming the fallen Nexuses of the Forest of Shadows
[X] [ULTHUAN] Cooperation
 
Gavin Prince said:
Some can. The waystone rune itself seems pretty permissive in its carving, for example. But good luck reverse engineering the dwarven runes for the capstone. Bretonnia has access to three lores of magic, so full-collegiate or quaysh solutions are also out. Rituals don't leave behind much trace of the components that went into them. And, man, we wish the leyline passphrases were reverse-engineerable.
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I didn't say "the full thing can be reverse engineered." My point is not that once they have it they could just build it themselves. My point is that any magical secrets all can be wrung out of it, and those should not go for free. If it weren't for the good of the world, then most people should say they shouldn't be given out at all.
 
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