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Anyone else interested to go to to see if the title is still on sale?
Even if that specific title isn't on sale, we could topple a Border Prince in a weekend and take the title by right of conquest, if we wanted to. We wouldn't even need to pull in additional forces to do it.

We'd lose the land the following weekend as the next guy rolled in, but that just lets us declare ourselves "Princess-in-Exile" instead, which is arguably even more romantic as a title.
 
M...
It's a pity we have to kill the Tsar, because a favour is big as this one could convince Boris to give us the title of princess or something similar, even if the title it's an empty one.

Wich is great, but on the other hand, if the favour you ask for is being made a princess. Boris might fear we will kill him next and make ourselfes the Tsarina.

Mind you I may vote for it anyway...
 
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It wouldn't even be too out of character, one of the first boons Mathilde ever spent was on getting herself a cool title that still pays off to this day.
You are right!!

We make a secret deal with Boris:
Once we have the waystones ready to begin deploying in Kiev, he publically will be so grateful that must invent a title with princess in it to grant it to us.

Yes...

Edit: also probably wait until the medium waystones for it? Don't think people will believe the tributaries are worthy a title.
 
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Not really? Like, yes, the Sigmarites try to help the Dwarfs out. But if they need to choose between something the Dwarfs want them to do, and something they think is for the good of the Empire, they'll pick the latter every time. Especially becasue the Sigmarites are going to know that Mathilde will cease to be SM at some point. But revoking a vote once given will also be incredibly hard.

It'd at least open the door for favours. Building a reputation with Sigmarites will be significantly easier than getting declared a dwarf.

I have voted for Mathilde to become a princess ever single chance I had.

Well she still has that Transcendent favour from Vlag alongside Thorgrim's solemn declaration that she's a dwarf... so she could probably swing at being a Queen.

Even if that specific title isn't on sale, we could topple a Border Prince in a weekend and take the title by right of conquest, if we wanted to. We wouldn't even need to pull in additional forces to do it.

We'd lose the land the following weekend as the next guy rolled in, but that just lets us declare ourselves "Princess-in-Exile" instead, which is arguably even more romantic as a title.

Whoever did it would probably get Grudged so if Mathilde was really invested in building a polity it'd probably last quite a while - which for the Border Princes is at least until the next major Waaagh.
 
Why be the fake princess of kislev when we could be the real princess of books?

The thing is that you can be prince/princess of various places/things at once.

That's why sometimes royalty inherited and ruled more than one kingdom:
For example in medieval Europe the Hapsburg ruled both Spain and Netherlands for a while, and both areas were independent from each other.

We just keep stacking the title of princes
 
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The thing is that you can be prince/princess of various places/things at once.

That's why sometimes royalty inherited and ruled more than one kingdom:
For example in medieval Europe the Hapsburg ruled both Spain and Netherlands for a while, and both areas were independent from each other.

We just keep stacking the title of princes
Also, y'know, Austria/Germany/HRE. And consort of the english thorne. The Habsburgers owned a shitton of stuff.
England and Scotland were also an example until the Scots tried their hand at Colonialising and fucked up so bad they had to get bailed out, and the English used that to move from Personal Union to United Nation (or one might say, a united kingdom).

But if we do that, then we should really have different names for titles. It's insufficent Ulgu otherwise.
 
Roswita is unliekly to be Empress either. Better shot than Mandred, but I'd give better than even odds that it goes to Middenland.
I'd give it better than even odds it goes to middenland if it weren't for the Middenland Nordland clash. With the Middenland clash I expect the "non-sigmarite" candidate to be Talabecland, with Roswita being one of many potential "Sigmarite Candidates" but the one that has, in my opinion, the best chance of getting non-Sigmarite votes.

So basically my big prediction is if the Cult of Sigmar itself throws it's votes behind Roswita, she wins, if it throws it's votes behind anyone else, Talabecland wins.
 
I'd give it better than even odds it goes to middenland if it weren't for the Middenland Nordland clash. With the Middenland clash I expect the "non-sigmarite" candidate to be Talabecland, with Roswita being one of many potential "Sigmarite Candidates" but the one that has, in my opinion, the best chance of getting non-Sigmarite votes.

So basically my big prediction is if the Cult of Sigmar itself throws it's votes behind Roswita, she wins, if it throws it's votes behind anyone else, Talabecland wins.
I don't see them putting support behind Konstantin, and the Averland count is Marius Leitdorf.

With Mandred being a wizard, I don't see anybody they'd support over Roswita, who was literally raised by Witch Hunters.
 
I expect that the next time 'Border-princedom' becomes an option, its going to be a very difficult game.

where the new dwarf trade union/orgne empire around it will change the game from 'individuals trying to make something of it' to 'its now worth nations poking at it'.

that was even part of the job blurb if I remember right.

She hesitates. "We plan to have plans for Mad Dog Pass." You're surprised at that - for them not to have a course planned out already must mean they're truly scrambling. "Most of our resources are tied up with the Canal project for now. But whatever those plans end up being, the current powers in the area would be a great hindrance, and a friendly power would be a great help. And most of all, we want to have someone in place to prevent some other power from realizing that Mad Dog Pass is the only still unclaimed route through the World's Edge Mountains, and moving to claim it for themselves."

That makes sense. None of the Old World's major powers would be daft enough to try to seize a Dwarfhold, but Mad Dog Pass was never home to proper Dwarfholds, only outposts for them to project power between Karaz-a-Karak and Karak Eight Peaks. That makes it up for grabs - and with the Karaz Ankor's population already stretched thin by the reclamation of Karak Eight Peaks, the Dwarves aren't in a good position to make that grab.
any 'second waves' of princes would be about protecting the consolidating/reinforcing control of the trade routes, with the empire trying to have a straight run to its borders from the 'gates' and everyone else trying to dot that route with their own 'tax points'/take that route for themselves.

so if mathy was part of it, she would probably be part of a attempt to trying to connect Akendorf to the howling river, or to take control of point along another route to to keep control of trade going to Tilea/ Bretonnia/Kislav, before Tilea/Bretonnia/Kislav try and set their own prince in that spot... or remove that prince if they are already there.
 
WFRP 2e: Tome of Salvation, page 16

@Boney, it says here that GUN translates many oghams, but I don't think the books we got reflect the university's apparent interest in the history of the pre-Empire Reik basin, unless our The Empire of Man books cover that.

2e is in the era of Hieronymous of Nuln, who in the current time has yet to rise to prominence and leave his mark on the U of N. It's currently a more conservative and classical institution, with a corriculum focused on mathematics, philosophy, theology, literature, and some sciences, with very little attention paid to the ages before the arrival of the Imperial Tribes.
 
Long Live the Tzar, Part 2
[*] Yes

Tally

The choice is an easy one, but that does not make it a comfortable one. Being the proxy in a patricide by proxy isn't going to be a high point of your career. But it is undoubtedly better for the Old World if Kislev's succession is both smooth and soon, and it seems the only way to achieve both is with your intervention. Doing what is necessary, even when it is unpleasant and unsavoury, is the duty of the Grey Order.

Besides all that, of the many fine qualities that Boris might bring to the throne of Kislev, 'personally indebted to you' would be a very useful one.

"It does seem in the interest of the Old World if the transfer of power in Kislev was given some assistance," you observe. Boris exhales and nods, his face still stoic. "How, specifically, should such a thing be done?"

He takes a moment to gather himself. "I would have liked him to have a proper end against foes of Kislev, but there is a better way now. Do it as quietly as possible, leaving no evidence. If the way you do it could only have been done with magic, that is good."

You run through the possibilities in your head for what he might be up to. Drycha? No, she might be capable, but from her reputation she isn't one for subtlety. Then the only possibility that comes to mind is that the investigation into the Kalashiniviks must have found something - or can be made to seem like it found something. "As if a Lahmian had done it?"

He nods. "As if a Lahmian had done it while doing their best not to leave evidence that a Lahmian did it. If there is one enemy of Kislev that father would proactively take steps against, it is those that would seek to restore Kattarin. It would be easily believed that when discovered, they would seek to remove him."

And then the Resvynhaf Kalashiniviks can be purged, avenging Vladimir and giving the other Boyars something to think about if they start to dislike the reign of Tzar Boris. And possibly improving his grip over Praag - that was once the powerbase of the Kalashiniviks, and being occupied with business in Praag was why Boyar Kalashinivik was not present for the Battle of the Shirokij. Having the entire family out of the picture would remove one threat to the power of Praag's Z'ra.

And, of course, possibly wiping out a nest of Vampires entrenched in Kislev's nobility is a win in its own right.

It's an elegant solution, and unlike most elegant solutions, it's also a straightforward one to achieve. Tzar Vladimir's distrust of Kislev's magic-wielding traditions means that there will not be any magical protections, only mundane ones.

"Very well. I'll see you again after your coronation."

---

Getting to Kislev City is straightforward. Mathilde Weber returns to the Empire and climbs into her Gyrocarriage for a return to her business in the south, and then a plain-looking clerk arrives in Zavstra one day without ever passing through any of the town gates or docks. Passage is booked on a passenger ship up the Urskoy to Kislev City without anyone involved retaining any memories of the woman, and she never visibly disembarks from the vessel when it arrives in Kislev. Instead, a woman in Ungol leathers simply appears on the streets and disappears into the crowds.

The walls of the Bokha Palace look formidable to an untrained eye, but it was fashioned for defending against armies, not assassins. And that there is still damage in the Palace from the Great War almost two centuries ago is a fitting reminder of why you're doing this. A crater that had once been a cannon emplacement provides one easy access point for a probe into the palace, as does a walkway to a now-missing tower that shifts unsettlingly as your weight appears on it. The Kreml Guard are always at the ground-level entrances, but within the Palace themselves they only seem to guard the areas where the Tzar actually is, leaving the rest of the structure populated by footmen and servants. You manage to locate the Palace's laundries, and have the luxury of taking a set of liveries that are coming out, rather than going in.

The Tzar's protections are adequate enough, you suppose, against disgruntled peasants and amateur assassins, but you don't see anything that will present much of an obstacle to you, or towards a theoretical Lahmian. You suppose that if he'd considered the matter at all, he'd considered his non-interference with the Boyars' business to be adequate defence. This allows you the luxury of choosing your approach. The first and most obvious possibility is to visit the Tzar at night and leave a corpse to be found in the morning, but while this is the easiest and least risky approach, it might actually be too easy, as it could be achievable by a suitably skilled but non-magical assassin. The opposite end of the spectrum would be to make a spectacle of things - strike him down at dinner or during a meeting or something while invisible or wreathed in shadows or similar, making it impossible to attribute the death to any mundane killer. Or if the greatest concern would be escaping after the deed is done, you could wait until the Tzar leaves the palace for one of his frequent hunts. The problem there is that while the Tzar might not be looking out for assassins while on the hunt, he and his companions and retainers would be armed and generally alert while out in Kislev's wilds.



[ ] Nighttime Visit
Sneak into his chambers at night, and leave a corpse to be found in the morning. Lowest risk, but leaves a killing that could have been done by mundane methods.
[ ] Spectacle
Strike while the Tzar is in company, with plenty of witnesses to make it clear that this was no mundane assassin.
[ ] Hunting Incident
Intercept him during one of his frequent hunting trips and slay him by some suitably unnatural means. Escape should be easy, but it does mean that him and everyone around him will be armed and alert.
[ ] Other (write in)



- There will be a two hour moratorium.
 
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Well, that simplifies matters. We're to make it look like an unnatural death. The key here is to make it both obviously magical, while also appearing to be how a bunch of vampire-aligned nobles would assassinate someone... or rather, how people would think they'd assassinate someone.

...There's a thought. What if we make this False Flag maneuver into a real one? Investigate the Resvynhaf Kalashiniviks, and manipulate one of them into making a hamfisted but ultimately successful attempt.
 
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[ ] Spectacle
Strike while the Tzar is in company, with plenty of witnesses to make it clear that this was no mundane assassin.
[ ] Hunting Incident
Intercept him during one of his frequent hunting trips and slay him by some suitably unnatural means. Escape should be easy, but it does mean that him and everyone around him will be armed and alert.
either of these suit me we need to make sure this was no mundane assassin so no one can pin it on anything other than vampire while making a spectale of it so boris can sweep in, kill the vampire boyars and secure the start of his reign of rule easily
 
Considering we're trying to make it look like "a Lahmian had done it while doing their best not to leave evidence that a Lahmian did it", then arguably the 'mundane death' con of a Nighttime Visit isn't much of a con.
 
And we already seem to have a method: the MMM with a shadow knife. (Who suggested that btw? Cause great idea).
 
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Let's not overcomplicate things.
He takes a moment to gather himself. "I would have liked him to have a proper end against foes of Kislev, but there is a better way now. Do it as quietly as possible, leaving no evidence. If the way you do it could only have been done with magic, that is good."
Quietly as possible with no evidence. "Only could have been done with magic" is a stretch goal, not a requirement.

Just teleport invisibly into his chambers at night and get out with almost zero risk to Mathilde.
 
And we already seem to have a method: the MMM with a shadow knife. (Who suggested that btw? Cause great idea).
The original idea was brought up by Boney when outlining how spells would work using the Matrix.

With the bindings as they are now, it has to be a spell that targets someone who is not you. No Skywalk, no Shroud of Invisibility (but yes to Substance of Shadow), no Take No Heed.

So to categorize:

Works Well: Illusion, Substance of Shadow, Mockery of Death, Mutable Visage, Mindhole, Universal Confusion
Works Oddly: Pall of Darkness, Marsh Lights (both cause their effect to be coughed up by the target), Magic Alarm (could be used to instantly send a 'ping' to you),
Works Horrifyingly: Shadowsteed, Shadow Knives
 
Escape should be easy, but it does mean that him and everyone around him will be armed and alert.
Just means we gotta make ourselves look like a Lahmian or smth for the worst case :V

I also... cautiously like the Spectacle option, because, while the original phrasing was "As if a Lahmian had done it while doing their best not to leave evidence that a Lahmian did it", pretending that a Lahmian is trying to send an intimidating message or smth also fits Boris's plans for the response? I think?

Still favoring the hunting trip plan overall ngl.
 
Ok, so this may be overcomplicating it, but a staple of supernatural mystery stuff in the killer trying to diguise their nature by disfiguring the corpse to distract from the actual killing wound.
So here is my idea for the threads consideration:
1) Go in at night
2) Put him under Mockery of death
3) Drain his blood via two small puncture wounds until dead
4) Disfigure him like you are trying to hide the wounds, but barely didn't succeed
5) Exit
We could also leave a few obvious mindholes among the nighttime guards.
 
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