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Hey folks I'm back; everything at the wedding went great, our guests had a good time and I successfully married the person I intended to marry, but I regret to report I've turned into this guy:
Whew. Ngl, was a bit worried you and your partner were gonna end up with the wrong person.

'gratz to you both on the whole 'getting married to the person you intended to' thing. It's harder than it looks. Ah, the stories I could tell.
Also, pickle, are you like... married and stuff?

I think we can still do that, if we fail the one and get battle magic we can abandon the spell an design trio-duel. Sure that means we have 'wasted' 1 AP but the rolls for the larger spell should be much easier for having some idea what we are doing in the contact of Ulgu
If we can't get this to be sub-battle magic level with one horsey, I'd be down for considering this a 'failed roll' on our action here, and trying for trio if Boney allowed.
 
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I think it's possible the elves did come up with it originally, in a way that doesn't require the update's mentioned soap-bubble-like merging that puts the Apparition's soul next to ours and both being coated in the Wind. Or that maybe an Elf had a mishap and only became able to cast Chamon, and they decided they'd get wacky with it - wizards and hubris go hand in hand.

But... The repeated emphasis on the theory that Apparitions may be fear spirits, specifically the fears of wizards wearing a groove of sorts in the Aethyr, now makes me think that if that's actually the case, then Gehenna's Hounds are probably a human thing. Elf wizards wouldn't have the same kinds of fears human wizards would.

To take some examples:
  • The Handmaidens are feared to be the souls of burned witches - straightforward enough. Them appearing from doors or windows or other portals is probably tied to that - a paranoid wizard who might be afraid they would get burnt at the stake might also fear that the next person who knocks the door or appears at a window might be an enemy.
  • The Dark Hounds probably represent the fear of either being hunted down like an animal by people who fear or hate you for having the destructive potential that magic offers, or being treated yourself like a dangerous dog due to said destructive potential. More prosaically, this is probably associated with the a fear of a literal giant animal hunting you down.
  • The Rider in Red, as was said in the first part of this Apparition-binding action, is speculated to be representative of wizards having their existence bound solely to war, and also perhaps the fear of being a priority target for cavalry.
  • The All-Knowing Serpent/Wisdom Asp, Boney has said, is probably representative of the fear of "Becoming so changed or entranced by a Wind that you stop seeing its dangers or forget who you originally were", and is also probably a fear that you'll get ambushed if you lower your guard around everyday objects.
  • The Lost Child appears as the sorrowful spirit of an executed youth with a charred garb - I would personally presume that's the fear of being abandoned by one's guardians and killed at an early age simply for having magic, not even doing anything with it.
With perhaps the exception of the Rider in Red, these are mostly human-centric fears. Elves don't fear being burnt by their fellow elves simply for having magic. Elves don't fear they'll be hunted down or become weapons of war merely for being good at destructive magic. They generally keep a centered point of view and in general wouldn't be afraid of being too bound to a single Wind. And, certainly, they would not fear being abandoned and killed by their fellows simply for having magic.

I suspect that if this is the case, then Ulthuan probably doesn't have Apparitions, or at least none that we know of canonically - that if they'd have some, they would have to be quest-original. And as such, that greatly lowers the possibility of Elves having made it. At best, you could speculate that an elf living among humans saw the Dark Hounds and was like 'you know, I can probably take advantage of this'. But I'm not even sure an elf would lower themselves to that.

So IMO it's probably a human who did it.

That's a well thought out argument, but I'd still lean towards it being an elf, if for no other reason than Gehenna the Second's introduction:
The woman who turns out to be Lady Magister Gehenna ("Gehenna the Second. I think the first was an Elf.")

As for apparitions as fear spirits, I don't think humans having different cultural associations for each apparition would necessarily imply that Ulthuan can't have the same or similar type of fear spirits forming, just with different impetuses—types of fear should be universal, even if the details differ. (One possibility: humans forming these associations could be following the shapes set by Elven cultural associations and adapting them to fit human beliefs, given the timeline involved).

Elven society incorporates magic to a higher degree than humans, so these fears would have a greater population of magic users to draw from than just pure wizards—a magic wielding adherent of Vaul, fearing being forced to turn his arts to war instead of creation, or a sailor using Ulgu, afraid of becoming too comfortable at sea and with the mist and forgetting his true home.

Some other examples:
Instead of being the souls of burned witches, Handmaidens could represent the Handmaidens of the Everqueen, fallen in battle and scarred by flames. Their appearance in doorways and portals represents the futility of escape from defeat.

Dark Hounds could arise from fear of being hunted down by Druchii invaders or their magical monstrosities.

The Rider in Red is sometimes said to be associated with Khorne, and I imagine the anything to do with fear of the Four would cross cultural lines easily.

In short, I think there's plenty of room for Ulthuan to have the same apparitions/types of fear, just with different cultural trappings.
 
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My dream of a lance of shadowy knight like figures is dying.

Second the Eonir most likely have books on apparitions. Now if Mathilde can get access to those is a different question.

Now when Mathilde goes on Elfcation I assume she is going to have to get a ship to Lothern. If she does she should bring Eike, Johann and max with her. Hopefully we do the Ilthimar action so Mathilde has money to spend. Because she can have Max buy books, Johann make friends and give Eike a unusual experience.
 
Second the Eonir most likely have books on apparitions. Now if Mathilde can get access to those is a different question.
Probably not until the situation changes:
@Boney I know you said no magic books for now because they are militarily relevant, but does that apply to all magical subjects? Like if we wanted books on apparitions from the Eonir could we get them or do we need to do a library action? Or will it take more than that even, like wait until the Library is open and Norland is less of a threat to the Eonir. I am trying to gouge the book buying in light of the notion of getting on that binding action.
There might be magical subjects that aren't militarily relevant and therefore could be available to Mathilde, but Apparitions would definitely be militarily relevant.
 
If high-level Hag Witches can bind Spirits the same way we do Apparitions (and hell, maybe they can bind Apparitions too) I'm suddenly even more scared of Niedzewnka somehow.

[X] [BEHAVIOUR] Bodyguard
[X] [NUMBER] One

Just making sure this wins.
 
If high-level Hag Witches can bind Spirits the same way we do Apparitions (and hell, maybe they can bind Apparitions too) I'm suddenly even more scared of Niedzewnka somehow.
It can't be the exact same way, we are using Ulgu as our leash, and taking advantage of how our soul is already coated in it; and we know Hag Witches don't use the Winds themselves.

Going by what little Mathilde saw when first seeing Niedzwenka, her way seems like a more general binding to certain items.
She grips a rope and pulls herself to her feet with some effort, a series of clicks and pops coming from her joints. Somewhat stiffly she steps up from her boat to the wharf, and you take the opportunity to study her with your Windsight. To your surprise she seems to have no inherent magical ability of her own, or at least nothing she has used recently. What she does have is a spiderweb of ephemeral attachments sprouting off her, some connecting to the boat and others to what seems to be items concealed on her person.

Or perhaps those were the Hag Witch equivalent items of enchanting? We don't really know, because we haven't actually seen a Hag Witch in action before.
 
Or perhaps those were the Hag Witch equivalent items of enchanting? We don't really know, because we haven't actually seen a Hag Witch in action before.
Huh, looking at the quote it sure looks like the sympathetic principles of Earthbound Magic binding Spirits within objects. If the objects are then bound to her soul in turn, does that prevent the sympathies from being overpowered by other things?
 
That then leads us to her opponent—a Boyar from Kattarin the Bloody's bloodline, who may have been vampire adjacent, and may have been in possession of the Eye of Khemri (in Vampireslayer, a Praag noble called "Count Andriev" owns the Eye, I'm presuming it's the same guy).

Just a quick update on this point, but the Boyar is called "Boyar Kalashinivik" in the quest. In 2e, the Kalashinivik family are mentioned as being related to Kattarin the Bloody. Kalashinivik and Andriev might be the same person. I've updated my post with this.
 
Chaos Greater Daemons (apart from Khorne, obviously) can all wield another wind apart from their god's magic- Chamon for Tzeentch, Ulgu for Slaanesh, Shyish for Nurgle. I imagine these energies would be present in their realms.
Which isn't the most intuitive of wind assignments. If pressed, I would have guessed Ulgu for Tzeentch (Illusion and secrets), Aqshy for Slaanesh (Passion), and...okay, Shyish fits Nurgle. Though Ghyran would also work and might be more interesting as a twist on the usually fairly benevolent-seeming Wind.
 
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Are fighting rings specifically sacred to Ranald, or are sports in general favored by Him? There's been several times where spilling blood on Ranald's symbol has been mentioned as part of a service and I always thought that was weird given He frowns on violence.

Blood sacrifice is a straightforward and potent building block for religious ceremonies for any God. Ranald frowns on unnecessary violence, which means the blood should be sourced from the willing or from enemies of Ranald. There's a philosophical debate that could be had as to whether consensual combat counts as violence or just a particularly boisterous form of sport, but Ranald doesn't seem to have a problem with it.
 
Huh, looking at the quote it sure looks like the sympathetic principles of Earthbound Magic binding Spirits within objects. If the objects are then bound to her soul in turn, does that prevent the sympathies from being overpowered by other things?
Maybe, maybe.

I wonder if the Colleges have any books on Hag Witch Magic, even just observations on their perceived capacities.
...On that topic, I don't know whether anyone has asked before whether the Colleges have stuff on Ice Witch Magic or not.
 
Maybe, maybe.

I wonder if the Colleges have any books on Hag Witch Magic, even just observations on their perceived capacities.
...On that topic, I don't know whether anyone has asked before whether the Colleges have stuff on Ice Witch Magic or not.
I think Ice Magic was asked about?

And the response was something like:

Ice Witches: They fucking better not.
 
I think Ice Magic was asked about?

And the response was something like:

Ice Witches: They fucking better not.

That was the case at least for the Elementalists:

- If there's a book topic that you think the Elementalists should have had - not that you wanted them to have had, something that it's so self-evident that they would have it that you think the lack of it is an oversight on my part - let me know.
With all those far-flung Gods and Lores they probably would also have stuff about the almost-local specialists in frozen water.
They have a single letter that reads "try it and we'll kill your entire fucking College".

But I don't know about the Colleges themselves. It's possible it could just be stuff like what we have on Runesmiths, which is to say, observed capacities only with little actual understanding of how they do things.
 
Too late to weigh on this vote and not like I would be able to ever persuade anyone, but holy hell this thread's screaming, irrational fear of battle magic gets me. Just maybe my vote wouldn't be somehow meaningless in face of 40 votes against (it would).
Also looking for how this spell will roll out to become BM and the thread never ever will touch this totally insta-Chaos-spawning us spell (unlike any other, proper, non-BM spells which cast like in D&D and never carry any risks, magical or otherwise whatsoever) again.

[x] [BEHAVIOUR] Charge
[x] [NUMBER] Trio
[x] [NUMBER] Lance
 
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Listen, Battle Magic takes Magic 7 to even be able to cast. I have always wanted the Rider spell to plug the beatstick-shaped hole in the Grey Order's spellbook, and you can't do that if the overwhelming majority of the Order can't even cast it.
 
[X] [BEHAVIOUR] Charge
[X] [BEHAVIOUR] Bodyguard
[X] [BEHAVIOUR] Duel
[X] [NUMBER] Trio
[X] [NUMBER] One
 
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Listen, Battle Magic takes Magic 7 to even be able to cast. I have always wanted the Rider spell to plug the beatstick-shaped hole in the Grey Order's spellbook, and you can't do that if the overwhelming majority of the Order can't even cast it.

It will at best be a FC Magic 5 minimum spell - it is likely that the Grey College will also be fairly sensitive in regards to who exactly can learn this spell (I'd expect Magisters and BWs to be the minimum).

That's still considerably more accessible than a full on BM spell but it still isn't going to be for everyone.



Too late to weigh on this vote and not like I would be able to ever persuade anyone, but holy hell this thread's screaming, irrational fear of battle magic gets me. Just maybe my vote wouldn't be somehow meaningless in face of 40 votes against (it would).
Also looking for how this spell will roll out to become BM and the thread never ever will touch this totally insta-Chaos-spawning us spell (unlike any other, proper, non-BM spells which cast like in D&D and never carry any risks, magical or otherwise whatsoever) again.

I really hope we can get mid to high tier BM with Whispering Darkness(es?) next turn.

I also hope that we can teach the Whispering Darkness different things to whisper and have a nice WD chorus.
 
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