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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Does Waagh magic make dhar when it mingles with winds? If not ulgu tongs would be back in the menu alongside the waaghsoak mushrooms.
 
Tasoli said:
Does Waagh magic make dhar when it mingles with winds? If not ulgu tongs would be back in the menu alongside the waaghsoak mushrooms.
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Divine magic repulses winds when in close proximity, just as two different winds do. It's theorized, but not proven, that divine magic can create Dhar, because priests tend to object to things like magical experiments and the term 'divine magic.' I don't see a reason for Waaagh to be different in that regard.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't wizards just flush out all the winds in them if they want to hide from windsight?

And trying to spot emotions that stir up winds as a way to see invisible people seems like you'd need a very constant and predicable flow of the winds to be able to tell natural and unnatural eddies apart.

Parabola said:
In fact, I wonder if we'd have to call the auditory version something else, given that 'scope' as a suffix simply means 'instrument for seeing'. What's the equivalent for hearing?
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Wind Chime was suggested earlier, and I think it's nice that it is a pun, an accurate description, and a way to separate it from the scientific pretenses of 'seviroscope'.

Abhorsen said:
Magesight understands Waaagh energy.
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I'd not that Mathilde's visual windsight perceives it as a bad taste and a tingle in the teeth.

It's like saying that regular sight understands infrared because you can feel the heat and it's an electromagnetic wavelength.

Curious if Eike would see the waaagh as a visible thing, with her intuitive sight.
 
Boney said:
Some sort of hydraula or askaulos with sensory enchantments attached to the valves?"
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Finally looked up what these are. They are both ancient greek musical instruments. The hydaula, or hydraulic organ, is a pipe organ that uses moving water to push air through the pipes. Apparently very popular throughout the roman empire. The askaulos is a bagpipe.

I assume that the seviroscope* would have 8 intake valves, each treated to react to a different wind, thus producing a different note. Hopefully these notes will be distinct enough that if it's detecting multiple winds, the listener can distinguish between them. It also appears from Egrimm's and Mathilde's discussion that Dhar could be detected this way as well.

*I quite like the name "Wind's Chime".
 
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Mopman43 said:
Boney's posts would indicate that this isn't workable without a friendly Waaagh caster on staff.



Basically, there's all sorts of materials that react with the Winds (just think of the turns where we were building wind-specific towers), and very few that react to the Waaagh.
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This is about a plant based detector. Seeing/hearing the Waaagh is different, AFAICT. The issue was with automating it and using it in conjunction with the waystones.

We know that Mathilde and a bunch of others can magesight Waaagh energies from the lecture + lecture prep we did.

@Boney: to clarify, could our seviriscopes detect Waaagh? As a sound or visually? (I tend to doubt the visual one because we are setting t up to just do windsight, but I could be wrong).
 
Nerdasaurus Rex said:
So the Red Rider needs six limbs, is roughly the size of a horse, and shouldn't be mistaken for a ghost, a demon, or a beastman. But then again, Egrimm did say people confuse Golden Hounds for Flesh Hounds, and the Lights have to intervene, so we do have some flexibility.

Maybe a draconic creature of some sort? It probably wouldn't be able to fly, but it fits the requirements. Otherwise, I'm fine with a basic knight shape, or a Dämmerlichtreiter.
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How about a Knight on a Wyvern?

Nerdasaurus Rex said:
[ ] Other (Ulgu Dragon)

@Boney is this a valid form? Because the more I think about it, the more I like the idea of having a "pet" dragon.
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I support this! ^_^

Nerdasaurus Rex said:
Good enough for me.
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Me too!

@Boney

Why is flight not possible when a Shadowsteed can fly?
 
Cogsprocket said:
My heart screams Nuckelavee even though I know practically that makes it look even more demonic than it already does.
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Well, if you still want one and are looking for a way to mitigate that...


Derpmind said:
Mathilde used to be constantly surrounded by cats in the old hideout. This is just her catching a bigger cat.
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A cat also saved Mathilde's life (or at least spared her a dangerous battle and plausibly serious injury) when she first attempted to contain the Wisdom's Asp. Now, admittedly, that was Ranald-aligned and I'm dubious about chaining something with a symbol of Ranald, but it is a connection to cats in a pretty dramatic fashion, so as you say, this very much isn't out of nowhere.

Nerdasaurus Rex said:
I assume that the seviroscope would have 8 intake valves, each treated to react to a different wind, thus producing a different note. Hopefully these notes will be distinct enough that if it's detecting multiple winds, the listener can distinguish between them. It also appears from Egrimm's and Mathilde's discussion that Dhar could be detected this way as well.
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For some applications - like a Dhar detector -, the most obvious way to achieve that is "however many bells you care about detecting the wind of, with color-coded lacquer on them". No need to worry about getting fancy with different notes if you only care about the presence of a wind over a certain threshold, rather than trying to use it as a precision instrument.

TheOmnimercurial said:
Why is flight not possible when a Shadowsteed can fly?
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It can't; also, even if it could, the Rider in Red isn't actually on a Shadowsteed, it just looks like it is if we go with a horse.

[x] Parabola
 
King Arthur said:
That's actually a good question, these are Chaos Orcs, would they even generate Waaagh energy?
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Without actually taking a look at them, we can't really know. I would assume they don't have Waaagh shamans, though. And I would think they probably have Chaos sorcerer equivalents, given how they are able to consistently evade being found by Carcassonne and Carcassonne was like 'alright lets ask the person with the best human magesight in the Old World to find them'...

But whether the Chaos Orcs themselves can generate Waaagh energy? Who knows. We'll try it and find out.

Tasoli said:
Does Waagh magic make dhar when it mingles with winds? If not ulgu tongs would be back in the menu alongside the waaghsoak mushrooms.
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I don't think it does? But even of it doesn't, that doesn't make it a good idea to try it. And even if it was, I honestly feel zero desire to engage into Waaagh magic usage. It's not really Mathilde's style.

The one type of other magic asides from Ulgu I can see myself ever voting to learn is Hedgecraft, but who knows how that works.

TheOmnimercurial said:
Why is flight not possible when a Shadowsteed can fly?
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The 'spell' we're making is summoning the bound-and-leashed Apparition, meaning its capacities are limited to the type of Apparition. For the Rider in Red that means we get a rider-and-mount shaped being that we summon and then attacks enemies. We can reshape it slightly, and to an extent it might affect its tactical capacities (see: the horse vs giant cat vs giant wolf talk), but flying is not something the Rider is capable of.

We've been told before that it's possible to modify an existing Apparition and maybe try to improve upon its capacities a lot, but...
Boney said:
It's something that can be tried, but it might be worth mentioning that 'we captured these terrible monsters and built a bunch of containment mechanisms around their current level of intelligence and ability, and then we made them smarter' is the starting points of like five hundred different horror movies and video games.
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...People would understandably be a bit skeptical about trying it.
 
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Glau said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't wizards just flush out all the winds in them if they want to hide from windsight?

And trying to spot emotions that stir up winds as a way to see invisible people seems like you'd need a very constant and predicable flow of the winds to be able to tell natural and unnatural eddies apart.
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They can flush themselves out to fool a Wind-detector, but they can't hide a spell that's making themselves invisible. The spell itself is made out of the winds, so it's visible to a wind detector even if what it's hiding isn't.

If the detector detects a lot of magic in an empty hallway, there's probably a spell just making it look empty, so to speak.

(Edit: I assumed this was about the cool noise-box; sorry if you were posting about doing it manually. )
 
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LadyLynn said:
I personally like the idea of more dramatically changing the shape of the Rider into something that's useful for a larger variety of environments. A horse&rider shape isn't exactly suited for every environment, is it? (EDIT: i will admit i know extremely little about cavalry)

By the way, for something like a cat or dragon shape or whatever, wouldn't a tail count towards the 6 limb limit?
EDIT: Apparently, it does not because the Rider in Red's horse has a tail.
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How about a Hydra?
Tail + 6 Limbs for Necks with Heads + 2 more Heads= 8 Heads on long necks and a Tail?

Or Knight on Hydra?
So Tail + 1 Head + 2 Arms for Knight + 1 Head + 4 Limbs as Necks with Heads= 5 Headed Hydra with Knight

BeepSmile said:
I have to speak against this, not because it's heretical, but because it's a bad idea to have showing one's alligance to Ranald be inherent to casting the spell. How about:

[ ] Other (A handsome man with an winsom smile and knowing glint in his eye, yet for all that a hard to describe face, with a green cloak with some subtle cross-stitching. On a Giant Cat)

Or:

[ ] Other (Giant Cat [Maybe extra "tails" if we have to give it six limbs] )

Edit: The limb-tails could be pehensile and wield swords.

Or guns?

Or gunblades?
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Sabretusk + Knight?

4 Legged Displacer Beast + 2 Bladed Tentacle Arms?

lockingbane said:
My vote is this

[-] Knight atop an armored cat

Or

[-] A six legged cat
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I support this!

Maybe even 4 Armed Bipedal Sabretusk Knight!

Boney said:
Infusing materials with Winds is one of the foundational principles of Alchemy and a specialty of the Gold Order, and weird-ass hydraulic music organs are a special interest of the Light Order. The ideas Mathilde and Egrimm came up with are only this apparent to them because of their backgrounds.



Those are possible.



No, the Rider in Red already has a tail that can be adapted into a new sort of tail if necessary.



You could, but it would require another action to invent an entirely new skin-binding combination.



The 'Conventional Empire' option is for a generic Knight from no particular Order, but you could write in the Knights of Judgement.
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I do like the idea of a Naga or Tigerman from Ind....

On that note, could the Rider be upgraded later to be bigger or gain more limbs or fly?

BurnNote said:
How about a mamoth? With either two trunks, or two big ears.
Of course, given size restrictions, it would be a very tiny mammoth.
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Dwarf Mammoth Lol
 
We might be able to hire a Jade magister to develop a greenskin-derived fungus for detecting Waaagh energy somewhere unpopulated like the Badlands or the Wastelands. A lab leak of a biological specimen being subjected to gain-of-function research is clearly easily contained and will have no serious consequences so we should have no concerns about being blamed for anything.

However I feel like rampantly speculating about things way too early, so I have come up with a list of one thing from each college we could ask for as part of a Morb boon:
  1. The Jades develop a mushroom for a Waaagh detector
  2. Money from the Golds to buy everything we want in Lothern
  3. KAU access to the Ancient Library of the Light Order
  4. The Celestials enchant our gyrocopter
  5. Help from the Brights developing Incite Conflict
  6. Help from the Amethysts developing the Dammerlichtreiter Thurible
  7. The Greys stop charging us CF for the Hochlander
  8. Literal headpats from Dragomas in Dragon form

PS I am honestly not sure if any of these are good ideas or terrible ideas, so if you like them great, and if you don't please treat this as a joke.
 
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Boney said:
It's an inherent limitation. The appearance is the binding. If you want a new appearance, you have to invent a new binding.
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Boney said:
Being physically capable of movement is generally a good trait to go for in a form.



It would be a horse-sized mammoth.



Sure. You can write in literally any humanoid riding literally anything the approximate size and general shape of a horse.



All she revealed is that the underlying mechanics of Gehenna's aren't suitable for adding thinking minds to enchantments.
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Could we bind it into a Skin that is designed to shift forms?

Like the Shadow Devil from the first Devil May Cry game....?

It is a Pool of Shadow that can become a Shadowy Sabretooth Tiger, it can also turn into a set of blades to pierce, stab or throw it's whole body as a big spinning blade.
 
Mopman43 said:
To do what?

The main enchantments I want on the Gyro are Aqshy (functionally infinite range) and Ulgu (Illusion to dampen the sound, invisibility to make it invisible)
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Mathymancer has a whole bunch of ideas here:
mathymancer said:
I've been thinking of possible Windherding projects that aren't just Windherding training sessions which also happen to create some dubiously useful trinket and I suddenly realized that we have a gyrocarriage. Remember our gyrocarriage? We have one, which is ours. Used a boon to get it. It's easy to forget because we haven't done a single thing with it so far. But you know what we could do with it, that we couldn't do with a loan? We can enchant it and cast spells on it.

What spells, exactly?
The following spells have obvious applications in the improvement of a gyrocopter. In no particular order:

Stoke the Forge (Gold, Relatively Simple) / Inextinguishable flame (Bright, Moderately Complicated):
Can be used on the engine to obvious effect. Stoke the forge makes the flame hotter and inextinguishable flame doesn't (I think) but Stoke the forge lasts one hour while Inextinguishable flame lasts for months. Both make it so that the flame doesn't consume fuel, which is generally convenient and possibly life saving in the case of a fuel leak.
Enchant Item (Gold, Fiendishly Complex):
Makes an item better for an hour. We probably can't permanently enchant the whole thing with it (can you even permanently enchant objects with enchant item? Feels like cheating) but using it on specific components of the gyrocarriage could be really useful.
Law of Form (Gold, Relatively Simple):
Could maybe be used to strengthen parts of the copter in case of damage, making them hold for long enough to make an emergency landing? Honestly this one might end up not being that useful, but worth mentioning.
Lens on the Sky (Celestial, Relatively Simple):
Could be useful when scouting. Mathilde already knows how to create magical lens with her tool-free enchantment spells, but I imagine the celestial version is better for seeing things at a distance.
Clear Sky (Celestial, Moderately Complicated):
Could help flying in hard weather conditions. Dispelling a single cloud doesn't sound like much, but maybe we can get an enchantment that can cast the spell a number of times per charge.
Lightning Bolt (Celestial, Moderately Complicated) / Wind Blast (Celestial, Moderately Complicated) / Lightning Storm (Celestial, Fiendishly Complex):
If the gyrocarriage is in aerial combat things have probably already gone terribly wrong, but it might be a good idea to have some combat capabilities just in case.
Wings of Heaven (Celestial, Moderately Complicated):
Not really for the gyrocarriage itself, but this might serve as an emergancy parachute.
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I particularly like the idea of Clear Sky because poor weather causes a lot of General Aviation crashes, and some form of lightning attack spell. I am hoping Adela can handle Inextinguishable Flame for us because she already knows it, and therefore I don't think we need an enchantment for it.
 
Boney said:
A horse is good for bulldozing through a group of people, a murderkitty is good for absolutely ruining one person at a time.



Mathilde would be able to shift enough bulk around that it wouldn't look completely ridiculous, but you'd still be looking at an absolute megachonker of a boar and a bit of a naff Orc.



No, you can't take a tail that only does simple movements and turn it into a fully prehensile tentacular murdershadow.



By 'on a Shadowsteed' I mean it would look like it was on a Shadowsteed. It wouldn't be riding on the actual spell, so it would still rely on the rules of physics for locomotion, so it'd still need those legs.
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Could we cast Shadowsteed and bind the Red Rider to it?

Get 4 more limbs and flight from it?
 
chocolote12 said:
They can flush themselves out to fool a Wind-detector, but they can't hide a spell that's making themselves invisible. The spell itself is made out of the winds, so it's visible to a wind detector even if what it's hiding isn't.
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Aren't we operating under the model where when a wind becomes an effect, it is no longer a wind?

The implication of the elf researcher talking about 'using up' Dhar suggests this, as does the inability to just recycle a spell into a new spell forever- winds are a finite resource on battlefield scale, right?
 
Glau said:
Aren't we operating under the model where when a wind becomes an effect, it is no longer a wind?

The implication of the elf researcher talking about 'using up' Dhar suggests this, as does the inability to just recycle a spell into a new spell forever- winds are a finite resource on battlefield scale, right?
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You're right that magic can be exhausted in an area.

I think the theory goes something like this: During a spell the wind is bound up in the magical effect, and when the magical effect ends, it either dissipates into Earthbound magic, or disperses back into free winds. The magical effect still contains bound Winds, which is why spells of different Lores still create Dhar when you jam them together past the repulsive effect.
 
ReImagined said:
or disperses back into free winds.
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Which could then theoretically be reused, so it shouldn't be that one...

ReImagined said:
which is why spells of different Lores still create Dhar when you jam them together past the repulsive effect.
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Do they? Like, if you threw an amber sphere through a fireball in mid flight, would it produce Dhar? You'd need two manifestations without ongoing control strings to get the best test.
 
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